I think we got an apology!

loldog

Who is going to apologise for the Ulster massacres of 1641? Somebody's going to have to apologize, we're not moving anywhere until someone apologizes. :rolleyes:

.

Happyman42

Wicknight wrote: »

Around the world now is it? Would that be perhaps the men and women in Afganistan who regularly faced death in order to stop one of the worse governments in the history of the modern world re-tacking control of state, in a country they are not even from?
Bit different from remote detonating a car bomb in a residential area, me thinks.

Is that some sort of limp defence for the activities of the British and the US? Soldiers are generally brave men and women, my problem is with their masters.

And I'm sure it doesn't much matter if the bomb comes from a plane or underneath to the person sitting in the car.

Wicknight wrote: »

Can you point out an atrocity Charles Steward Parnell carried out please?

..ah the luxury of being able to pluck your heroes out of their contexts!
Wash their faces and parade them as evidence of your upstanding humanity.....sigh

Wicknight wrote: »

Of course it is. And while it is we have this nonsense that the important things to be worrying about is the Queen's apology not being satisfactory enough, or the "bullying" of the British Army, instead of tackling the real issues which is thugs using my country as an excuse to carry out murder and violence.

Do these 'thugs' not have a claim on the country too? Britian can 'Bully' their way into the affairs of another country but these 'thugs' are somehow different?

Wicknight wrote: »

As far as I can tell the British army weren't throwing bottles and iron bars at the Gardai this evening on the streets of Dublin. But heaven forbid we go a few minutes without discussing how horrible the British army are! :rolleyes:



Were any of them the scum on the streets of Dublin the last few days, attempting to disrupt and injure the Gardai?

They probably were, but in the real world this is what happens if you disenfranchise large sections of the community and allow them to become disaffected. Happens all over the world, Toxteth Riots, The streets of NI, Paris Riots etc etc.

Your politics of condemnation- while making you feel good -will solve zilch. It didn't in NI for 30 yrs. It wasn't until people with the power to change things got together and decided to do something that things changed.

Wicknight wrote: »

Accurate assessment of history reporting doesn't blind Gardai. Thinking you are the nobel descendant of Michael Collins and that any behavior is justified because are an "occupied nation" so it is ok to set a bin on fire and throw it at a member of the Guards, well that is a different matter now isn't it.

And I have no idea what you are on about there ^ ^

dan719

Happyman42 wrote: »

The population of Crown apologists in Ireland has just soared, we always had them but it has now gone beyond oogling at wedding dresses and Prince Charming. A great day for Unionists and Royalists but a sad day for republicans. None of the people commemorated in the Garden Of Remembrance would have accepted that speech as an apology, it was just more of the placatory guff we have been hearing from The Crown for years.

Who the hell are you to speak on behalf of those who are commemorated in the Garden of Remembrance?

Does anyone think that the likes of Wolfe Tone, Pearse or whoever you're having yourself wanted to be represented by the likes of Eirgi? Or scumbag junkies looking for an excuse to wreck their own city?

Edit- I see that you justiy the behaviour of the scum due to disenfranchisement with society. Pull the other one. No matter what standards of living are provided, certain people will always look to indulge in some mindless violence.

LondonIrish90

The Queen got as impressively close to a full on apology for the wrongs Britain had carried out as she could ever have been realistically expected to. It may not be enough for the moment for some, but nothing will ever be enough in many ways for certain people.

To know that the head of state, the commander in chief, the monarch of the UK was not just open to, but desiring a state visit to Ireland and the memorials and places she has visited would tell people (should they just open their eyes) a huge amount about her government/establishment's will to show they've done unwaranted and immoral things to Ireland in the past. Why would they make the Queen do such things if they believed they were not at fault in any way?

Hopefully we can look forward to Ireland getting more good media exposure over the next couple of days around the world as events become less formal.

And we can all look forward to our closer and stronger relationship or whatever it was Dave Cam was talking about. He should maybe think about getting on with some work repairing the mess that is his own country now.

lugha

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

SF have played this excellently...

I'm not so sure about that. The allowed those that protested to appear to represent republicanism who did a fine PR job promoting that ideology! Terrible few days for republicanism.

Happyman42

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

The Queen got as impressively close to a full on apology for the wrongs Britain had carried out as she could ever have been realistically expected to. It may not be enough for the moment for some, but nothing will ever be enough in many ways for certain people.

To know that the head of state, the commander in chief, the monarch of the UK was not just open to, but desiring a state visit to Ireland and the memorials and places she has visited would tell people (should they just open their eyes) a huge amount about her government/establishment's will to show they've done unwaranted and immoral things to Ireland in the past. Why would they make the Queen do such things if they believed they were not at fault in any way?

Hopefully we can look forward to Ireland getting more good media exposure over the next couple of days around the world as events become less formal.

And we can all look forward to our closer and stronger relationship or whatever it was Dave Cam was talking about. He should maybe think about getting on with some work repairing the mess that is his own country now.

Which is as about as close to doffing the hat as you can get without baring your head.

You say The Queen got 'as impressively close to a full on apology for the wrongs Britain had carried out'...... then you do the classic inferior hand wringing so characteristic of a certain type of Irish person. you wimp out and you let her and what she stands for off the hook!
But that is nothing new. We still have huge numbers doffing their hats to the big house in this country which is more of the same nonsense.
If you believe an apology is owed for the actions of her Army and Government then demand nothing less than that apology, anything else is a cop out.
'Did you hear her say the cupla focal, wow, and did you hear she liked the clink of our glasses, wouldn't it make you proud to be an Irishman .......Jesus H!

Laminations

Happyman (and any 'republican') have you ever visited Britain or the US? Do you buy their products? I find it hypocritical or just ideologically lazy that you watch their TV shows, follow their sports, buy their exports, food, clothes and holiday in their countries but criticise them as warmongerers. YOU pay into their economy, you fuel the war machine. So rather than protest an elderly lady comin here howabout you put your money where you mouth is and take a proper principled stand and boycott those countries?

Wolfe Tone

Laminations wrote: »

Happyman (and any 'republican') have you ever visited Britain or the US? Do you buy their products? I find it hypocritical or just ideologically lazy that you watch their TV shows, follow their sports, buy their exports, food, clothes and holiday in their countries but criticise them as warmongerers. YOU pay into their economy, you fuel the war machine. So rather than protest an elderly lady comin here howabout you put your money where you mouth is and take a proper principled stand and boycott those countries?

Do you say the same to those who watch american TV shows yet disagree with their foreign policy?

Begob

I do yes.

Laminations

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Do you say the same to those who watch american TV shows yet disagree with their foreign policy?

If they disagree with their foreign policy to the point that they'll protest a visit from their president yes I do. Pathetic petty lazy hypocrites.

Happyman42

Laminations wrote: »

Happyman (and any 'republican') have you ever visited Britain or the US? Do you buy their products? I find it hypocritical or just ideologically lazy that you watch their TV shows, follow their sports, buy their exports, food, clothes and holiday in their countries but criticise them as warmongerers. YOU pay into their economy, you fuel the war machine. So rather than protest an elderly lady comin here howabout you put your money where you mouth is and take a proper principled stand and boycott those countries?

Dear me, I kinda suspected we would get to this level, just not as soon.:rolleyes:

I can just see you as one of those who will 'change the world' by buying Fair Trade coffee, 'oh that's my soul salved , now, where's the sugar?'

Do you have one of those Che t-shirts too? :rolleyes:

Begob

It is hypocrisy of the highest order when coming from the strong perspective of anti Britishness displayed here to be picking and choosing which parts of their culture you'll accept..
Jam on both sides of the bread so to speak.

Laminations

Happyman42 wrote: »

Dear me, I kinda suspected we would get to this level, just not as soon.:rolleyes:

I can just see you as one of those who will 'change the world' by buying Fair Trade coffee, 'oh that's my soul salved , now, where's the sugar?'

Do you have one of those Che t-shirts too? :rolleyes:

So that's a no. You induldge in their culture, you fuel their economies, you use (abuse) their language to express your views. You take so much from them from nourishment to entertainment but you won't take an invited visit from their state heads.

femur61

rorymcgrory wrote: »

Even if she did apologise, who cares? It has absolutely no effect on our lives.

I have to agree, to me what happens here and now what is important. All I can see at 43 years of age is a totally bankrupt country caused by none and the other than our corrupt political leaders, not the British monarchy. We're saddled in debt, we're experiencing a brain drain, due to our inept political system allowed yes by ourselves.

Happyman42

Begob wrote: »

It is hypocrisy of the highest order when coming from the strong perspective of anti Britishness displayed here to be picking and choosing which parts of their culture you'll accept..
Jam on both sides of the bread so to speak.

sorry? Who is anti British?
My problem is with the actions of The British Crown in this country. I have absolutely no problem with British culture or it's people.
The next thing you people will be doing is claiming that all of the British people support the Monarchy and have no problem with the actions of the Army that acts in their names????? ARE YOU GONNA TRY THAT ONE in a nice little neat phrase like 'Anti-British'.
Try bringing a little more sophistication of thought or stay out of the debate maybe? Stop assuming things and look at what people are actually saying.

Wolfe Tone

No more anti british then I am anti Irish for bashing FF and the RCCs record in Ireland and state collusion in such.

tayto lover

Laminations wrote: »

So that's a no. You induldge in their culture, you fuel their economies, you use (abuse) their language to express your views. You take so much from them from nourishment to entertainment but you won't take an invited visit from their state heads.

There are not too many Republicans in the North refusing their dole because its paid in Sterling. Gerry, Martin etc are all paid by the British Government too.
Its time to move on lads. If the Queen had gone down on her knees and asked Ireland to forgive her for all the wrongs done some posters would still have the need to complain and ask for more.
Yesterday and the day before were very positive steps towards a United Ireland in my opinion and if it helps heal the divide and prevent more bloodshed then it was very worthwhile.

Begob

Happyman42 wrote: »

sorry? Who is anti British?
My problem is with the actions of The British Crown in this country. I have absolutely no problem with British culture or it's people.
The next thing you people will be doing is claiming that all of the British people support the Monarchy and have no problem with the actions of the Army that acts in their names????? ARE YOU GONNA TRY THAT ONE in a nice little neat phrase like 'Anti-British'.
Try bringing a little more sophistication of thought or stay out of the debate maybe? Stop assuming things and look at what people are actually saying.

lol...the dearth of logic in your thinking is displayed above given the vast majority of the irish people never supported the IRA in the first instance and I needn't tell you what they think of the current lot.
Cheerleading that kind of thing is both anti British and anti Irish.

I don't expect advocates of that kind of cheerleading to ever move on of course which is why they get so much disdain on boards and elsewhere.
They are a disgrace to their fellow irishmen and women who in a spirit of friendship have reached an accomadation on the island and between the islands.
What we are left with are the rut of lowestville.Population them.

Happyman42

Laminations wrote: »

you use (abuse) their language to express your views.

Now that is good! :D
Are those who took to the streets in Britain to protest the actions of their Government and Army traitors? Should they stop supporting the economy, stop speaking the language blah de blah?

Are you seeing how ridiculous what you are saying is?

Wolfe Tone

Yesterday she delivered a speech that was pure waffle, designed to offend no one and to be as uncontroversial as possible. Completely lacking in substance.

Clearly though,the majority voiced opinion this morning is to the contrary of wolfetone and happy above.
I actually thought it was a nicely nuanced speech reaching all the right balances.
But then,I'm one like most that's moved on.

tomo75

I, for one, am delighted that the Queen has come to Ireland. It gives Ireland exposure to the world for something positive rather than all the doom and gloom. As for an apology, she was never gonna give a full confession on what happened between the two countries, I still think it was a good speech and brings us a little further down the road to civilisation. I think both countries will benefit from it.

Laminations

Happyman42 wrote: »

Now that is good! :D
Are those who took to the streets in Britain to protest the actions of their Government and Army traitors? Should they stop supporting the economy, stop speaking the language blah de blah?

Are you seeing how ridiculous what you are saying is?

They protest policy. As voters this is fine. They don't protest the movements of the Queen. You are againt the Queen coming here.

Happyman42

Deleted User wrote: »

Clearly though,the majority voiced opinion this morning is to the contrary of wolfetone and happy above.
I actually thought it was a nicely nuanced speech reaching all the right balances.
But then,I'm one like most that's moved on.

There's that 'majority' word again.

Could you demonstrate that?...and spare us a Politics.ie poll

Happyman42

Laminations wrote: »

They protest policy. As voters this is fine. They don't protest the movements of the Queen. You are againt the Queen coming here.

Would you answer the question now?

Are those who took to the streets in Britain to protest the actions of their Government and Army traitors? Should they stop supporting the economy, stop speaking the language blah de blah?

armouredbear

Happyman42 wrote: »

Which is as about as close to doffing the hat as you can get without baring your head.

You say The Queen got 'as impressively close to a full on apology for the wrongs Britain had carried out'...... then you do the classic inferior hand wringing so characteristic of a certain type of Irish person. you wimp out and you let her and what she stands for off the hook!
But that is nothing new. We still have huge numbers doffing their hats to the big house in this country which is more of the same nonsense.
If you believe an apology is owed for the actions of her Army and Government then demand nothing less than that apology, anything else is a cop out.
'Did you hear her say the cupla focal, wow, and did you hear she liked the clink of our glasses, wouldn't it make you proud to be an Irishman .......Jesus H!

Oh please! Get off the barstool! This country has always had diverse traditions.

Laminations

Happyman42 wrote: »

Would you answer the question now?

Are those who took to the streets in Britain to protest the actions of their Government and Army traitors? Should they stop supporting the economy, stop speaking the language blah de blah?

The thugs out protesting here were not protesting British policy. They couldn't even name the 6 counties. And if you are against british policy you could protest that any day. You've gotten all het up because of the Queen and a lack of an apology, how does trying to ruin her visit amount to a protest against British policy? And if you think it does, or if Brits think disrupting a conciliatory speaking engagement of the Queen is a correct way to protest then I wouldn't call them traitors, but I wouldn't call them clever.

Your comparison isn't honest. Brits protesting policy =/= you protesting the Queen

Begob

Happyman42 wrote: »

There's that 'majority' word again.

Could you demonstrate that?...and spare us a Politics.ie poll

It would be pretty pointless directed at you,for the simple reason that (a) it's obvious and (b) your answer will be the same ie,stick your fingers in your ear,squint your eyes and post 100's of these... :D:D ...yokes.

I'd rather be involved in an inteligent reasoned debate thank you.

Happyman42

Begob wrote: »

It would be pretty pointless directed at you,for the simple reason that (a) it's obvious and (b) your answer will be the same ie,stick your fingers in your ear,squint your eyes and post 100's of these... :D:D ...yokes.

I'd rather be involved in an inteligent reasoned debate thank you.

And your sources for 'majority voiced opinion' please?

seamus

The simple fact is that the Queen over the past two days has shown nothing but the greatest of respect for our culture, history, traditions and heritage. That to me is more important than any words of apology for the actions of her ancestors.

That she is willing to humble herself and honour our country is a display of her country's willingness to move on, united and with respect for eachother. And we should do the same.

The United Kingdom does not owe the Republic of Ireland an apology for its actions in Northern Ireland. NI is a part of the United Kingdom and has been throughout her reign. Any actions taken by her forces were taken in the interests of protecting her country, and whatever atrocities that were carried out are for us to judge, but not to demand an apology. If an apology is due, it is due to the people of Northern Ireland.

If an apology is due by the Queen for acts and murders in Northern Ireland, then an apology is equally due from the IRA and Sinn Féin for the murder of thousands of civilians and military across Ireland and the UK.

But peace is not made by issuing apologies. Peace and reconciliation is achieved by recognising and regretting past mistakes made on all sides and agreeing to move forward in the spirit of co-operation. Which is exactly what the Queen did last night.

So you can shove your demands for an apology. Because one isn't due.

Soldie

Short of showing up with the 6 counties in her handbag, there's absolutely nothing the queen could have done to appease the more backward-looking republicans. This isn't about her failure to explicitly utter the word "sorry"; it's about something much deeper than that, and no sorry was going to change that. One of the queen's first engagements upon arriving here was to bow her head at the Garden of Remembrance to those Irish who fought for independence. She later made a speech in which she came as close to an apology as she could realistically have been expected to. It's unfortunate that there are some who can do nothing but spew vitriolic negativity in the face of that.

Happyman42

Laminations wrote: »

The thugs out protesting here were not protesting British policy. They couldn't even name the 6 counties. And if you are against british policy you could protest that any day. You've gotten all het up because of the Queen and a lack of an apology, how does trying to ruin her visit amount to a protest against British policy? And if you think it does, or if Brits think disrupting a conciliatory speaking engagement of the Queen is a correct way to protest then I wouldn't call them traitors, but I wouldn't call them clever.

Your comparison isn't honest. Brits protesting policy =/= you protesting the Queen

Are you aware of the increasing polarisation in Britain? Or have you got your head in the sand on that issue too? You need to argue from an adult fully informed position please or I am done with you.
Do you know or even care to know that 'invites' where issued to an awful lot of people, who chose to decline them on moral and ethical grounds.
Do you know that it is morally wrong of YOU to continue to infer that the only protesters where those on the streets. Or that they represent my objections.

Begob

Soldie wrote: »

Short of showing up with the 6 counties in her handbag, there's absolutely nothing the queen could have done to appease the more backward-looking republicans. This isn't about her failure to explicitly utter the word "sorry"; it's about something much deeper than that, and no sorry was going to change that. One of the queen's first engagements upon arriving here was to bow her head at the Garden of Remembrance to those Irish who fought for independence. She later made a speech in which she came as close to an apology as she could realistically have been expected to. It's unfortunate that there are some who can do nothing but spew vitriolic negativity in the face of that.

+1

As for happymans tiny minority views,he's entitled to them I spose but debate there is a waste of brain cells because theres no respect for the case being made.

Happyman42

Soldie wrote: »

Short of showing up with the 6 counties in her handbag, there's absolutely nothing the queen could have done to appease the more backward-looking republicans. This isn't about her failure to explicitly utter the word "sorry"; it's about something much deeper than that, and no sorry was going to change that. One of the queen's first engagements upon arriving here was to bow her head at the Garden of Remembrance to those Irish who fought for independence. She later made a speech in which she came as close to an apology as she could realistically have been expected to. It's unfortunate that there are some who can do nothing but spew vitriolic negativity in the face of that.

What would your interpretation of the line 'Ireland and Northern Ireland' be?.....who do you think that phrase was nuanced to appease?

It was a fabulously well crafted speech....we didn't get an apology and we where never meant to get one. Republicans weren't going to be appeased. If you go back through the threads here you will see that the royalist-apologists were appeased before she even landed at Baldonnel. Republicans had said before her visit that an apology was required. There was no equivocation in that demand. So the visit, in terms of progressing anything substantive is a FAIL. We just have to pay the bill and keep trying, just like the Derry Bloody Sunday victims. Truth will out.

Frank Black

There seems to be an obsession in this country with getting the British to apologise for the injustices of the past. Why are we not constantly trying to get the Danish to apologise for 10th century Viking raids on Ireland.
Or take it a step further – if you trace your ancestors back 24 generations, which is only around 500 years you will have over 33.5M ancestors.
Assuming a murder rate similar to modern times of 0.00946 murders per 1000 people, it’s a statistical probability that once of your ancestors has murdered someone.
In fact it’s almost certain that some of our ancestors have murdered an ancestor of everyone else in Ireland.
Given the above it’s probably appropriate that we all spend every minute of every day apologising to everyone we meet for the behavior of our ancestors towards their ancestors.
Or alternatively we could just be a bit more mature about the whole thing and move on.

humanji

Happyman42 wrote: »

What would your interpretation of the line 'Ireland and Northern Ireland' be?.....who do you think that phrase was nuanced to appease?

It was a fabulously well crafted speech....we didn't get an apology and we where never meant to get one. Republicans weren't going to be appeased. If you go back through the threads here you will see that the royalist-apologists were appeased before she even landed at Baldonnel. Republicans had said before her visit that an apology was required. There was no equivocation in that demand. So the visit, in terms of progressing anything substantive is a FAIL. We just have to pay the bill and keep trying, just like the Derry Bloody Sunday victims. Truth will out.

Why is everyone who disagrees with you a royalist apologist?

kraggy

seamus wrote: »

The simple fact is that the Queen over the past two days has shown nothing but the greatest of respect for our culture, history, traditions and heritage. That to me is more important than any words of apology for the actions of her ancestors.

That she is willing to humble herself and honour our country is a display of her country's willingness to move on, united and with respect for eachother. And we should do the same.

The United Kingdom does not owe the Republic of Ireland an apology for its actions in Northern Ireland. NI is a part of the United Kingdom and has been throughout her reign. Any actions taken by her forces were taken in the interests of protecting her country, and whatever atrocities that were carried out are for us to judge, but not to demand an apology. If an apology is due, it is due to the people of Northern Ireland.

If an apology is due by the Queen for acts and murders in Northern Ireland, then an apology is equally due from the IRA and Sinn Féin for the murder of thousands of civilians and military across Ireland and the UK.

But peace is not made by issuing apologies. Peace and reconciliation is achieved by recognising and regretting past mistakes made on all sides and agreeing to move forward in the spirit of co-operation. Which is exactly what the Queen did last night.

So you can shove your demands for an apology. Because one isn't due.

Respectfully, I cannot agree with most of your post.

I believe an apology would have been very welcome and it is fair to expect one AT SOME STAGE. The atrocities committed by Royal Forces in the North were done so under her command. The lack of civil rights for Catholics in her jurisdiction cannot be forgotten.

Of course, Sinn Fein and the IRA should have to apologise too. They did horrific things, many in fact, also. But I think that there is more of an onus on a State/Government to apologise for previous atrocities than there is on a terrorist organisation. Countries are supposed to be above terrorism.

There is no apology this time. Anyone who said there is is delusional. She did not say sorry. And while yes, she expressed regret, she did not express it directly in relation to previous acts carried out by Britain. She merely said that she regrets that certain things happened in the past and that certain things were done in a particular way or weren't done at all. She never said that she regretted things HER COUNTRY did or that she regrets that HER COUNTRY didn't do certain things at all.

Equally, anyone who was expecting an apology is just as delusional.

seamus

Happyman42 wrote: »

Republicans had said before her visit that an apology was required.

For what?

kraggy wrote:

I believe an apology would have been very welcome and it is fair to expect one. The atrocities committed by Royal Forces in the North were done so under her command. The lack of civil rights for Catholics in her jurisdiction cannot be forgotten.

As I say though, they are acts in a different jurisdiction. We are entitled to judge them, but we are not entitled to an apology for them. Perhaps the Japanese should apologise to us for attacking Pearl Harbour?

Wolfe Tone

The IRA apologized for all innocents killed, sure its not good enough but it is at least more tan the British have done.

Happyman42

humanji wrote: »

Why is everyone who disagrees with you a royalist apologist?

This better....'royal-defenders'.

mirwillbeback

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The IRA apologized for all innocents killed, sure its not good enough but it is at least more tan the British have done.

It seems to me that all those protesting, seeking apologies and most stringent in their views are those who have NEVER been directly affected by the violence of troubles directly.

I find that those who were affected, have a great amount of dignity.

Maybe what you experience and hurt you experience in real life is very very different to what a history book can make you believe you should feel.

I am pie

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The IRA apologized for all innocents killed, sure its not good enough but it is at least more tan the British have done.

an expression of regret and extension of sympathy is huge step forward, I would say watch this space. Cameron apologised for Bloody Sunday. Where there is a case i am fully supportive of calls for an inquest into injustices committed by either side.

Two things, some begrudging acknowledgement of the regret and sympathy extended would be the mature (i.e., politically mature) thing to do. Doesn't stop any campaign for further inquests if required.

The IRA apology was characteristically vague. Who do they define as innocents ? Did this apology include police officers, or those deemed legitimate targets for providing services to the police (builders working on police stations etc !).

Personally, what's been said is enough for me on all sides. Semantics do not interest me. A northern assembly with the possibility of a nationalist majority does. That's not enough for the dinosaurs of course, but then again dinosaurs were known to have very limited intelligence. The concept of democracy is clearly beyond their intellectual grasp.

Begob

kraggy wrote: »

I believe an apology would have been very welcome and it is fair to expect one AT SOME STAGE. The atrocities committed by Royal Forces in the North were done so under her command. The lack of civil rights for Catholics in her jurisdiction cannot be forgotten.

With all due respect,it wasn't under her command,she has no authority,she's just the figurehead.
Any action by the UK in NI was on the say so of a democratically elected government.
Elected by a people often misunderstanding the irish question and often angry for things like warrington and Enniskillen.
The British people have moved on from there, most of the irish people have pragmatically moved on and so should you.

What we're left with is a tiny minority of intellectually greedy stragglers like the 32 county soveireignity movement et al and their violent murderous cohorts..

I wouldn't be happy keeping company with that mindset and certainly would support laws to curb any illegal activities associated with them.

sensibleken

Oh no she didnt!

Oh yes she did!

These discussions perfectly illustrate the pantomime nature of anglo-irish relations over the last decade

Wolfe Tone

I am pie wrote: »

an expression of regret and extension of sympathy is huge step forward, I would say watch this space. Cameron apologised for Bloody Sunday. Where there is a case i am fully supportive of calls for an inquest into injustices committed by either side.

Two things, some begrudging acknowledgement of the regret and sympathy extended would be the mature (i.e., politically mature) thing to do. Doesn't stop any campaign for further inquests if required.

The IRA apology was characteristically vague. Who do they define as innocents ? Did this apology include police officers, or those deemed legitimate targets for providing services to the police (builders working on police stations etc !).

Personally, what's been said is enough for me on all sides. Semantics do not interest me. A northern assembly with the possibility of a nationalist majority does. That's not enough for the dinosaurs of course, but then again dinosaurs were known to have very limited intelligence. The concept of democracy is clearly beyond their intellectual grasp.

"It is therefore appropriate on the anniversary of this tragic event, that we address all of the deaths and injuries of non-combatants caused by us.

We offer our sincere apologies and condolences to their families."

If she said something similar as head of the British Army, I would be satisfied.

humanji

Happyman42 wrote: »

This better....'royal-defenders'.

Not really. It implies your argument isn't strong enough to stand by itself.

Propellerhead

Begob wrote: »

With all due respect,it wasn't under her command,she has no authority,she's just the figurehead.
Any action by the UK in NI was on the say so of a democratically elected government.
Elected by a people often misunderstanding the irish question and often angry for things like warrington and Enniskillen.
The British people have moved on from there, most of the irish people have pragmatically moved on and so should you.

What we're left with is a tiny minority of intellectually greedy stragglers like the 32 county soveireignity movement et al and their violent murderous cohorts..

I wouldn't be happy keeping company with that mindset and certainly would support laws to curb any illegal activities associated with them.

As the Lighthouse Family song goes, they can be Lifted. And quickly as well before they cause any serious trouble or tarnish the name of Ireland any further.

Dr Galen

mirwillbeback wrote: »

It seems to me that all those protesting, seeking apologies and most stringent in their views are those who have NEVER been directly affected by the violence of troubles directly.

I find that those who were affected, have a great amount of dignity.

Maybe what you experience and hurt you experience in real life is very very different to what a history book can make you believe you should feel.

An interesting point. I'd love to see the poll results for that question

I am pie

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

"It is therefore appropriate on the anniversary of this tragic event, that we address all of the deaths and injuries of non-combatants caused by us.

We offer our sincere apologies and condolences to their families."

If she said something similar as head of the British Army, I would be satisfied.

I know that you are willfullly misunderstanding / ignoring the multitude of previous explanations provided to you on the Queen and her ability to apologise. Quite frankly it's pointless discussing it with you.

If you can't derive any satisfaction from extension of sympathy and expressions of regret then that's your issue.

The rest of us will move on.

kraggy

seamus wrote: »

For what?

As I say though, they are acts in a different jurisdiction. We are entitled to judge them, but we are not entitled to an apology for them. Perhaps the Japanese should apologise to us for attacking Pearl Harbour?

We only temporarily recognise the North as part of the Uk since the Good Friday Agreement. It was ours in the first place. The British came in, took our land and then treated a lot of the natives on that land as inferior to the ones they shipped over to steal it in the first place.

I'm very fond of Britain. Lived there for one year. Have a lot of British friends and they were my favourite nationality of people when I travelled the world. Sounder you could not meet.

But you can't deny history. While technically it's another jurisdiction, the people who suffered up there are Irish.