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WeightWatchers & "How Many ProPoints?" Thread MkII

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    dont forget to send me your weights!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭colliewobbles


    Any advice from anyone who has been on difene for an injury. Has your stomach felt upset/bloated just blah. I have a neck injury, and I've been on difene for about 10 days. I'm eating my pp everyday, not a morsal more and still drinking my 3L of water but i feel so crappy, granted I haven't been out for a walk but I feel I just terrible.

    Anyone else experienced this??


  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭Kay_80


    Hey great news on the clothes Monife :)

    So I'm in Belfast & I'm doing pretty good food wise we went to avoca for lunch I had some grilled chicken, salad & cous cous peppermint tea & resisted the temptation of the cakes & chocolate goodness!

    We went for sushi for dinner & all within points :) so us girls dumped the boys for a few hrs & hit the shops sale mania & I went slightly nuts I've not bought any clothes in 6 months & today I bought 2 dresses 4 skirts, 6 vests a cardigan 3 pairs of shoes & 2 handbags!!! LMAO the best bit all are size medium or a comfy 14 for the dresses/ skirts no pucking or pulling & all the tops are 12's yay! :)

    Having a chilled night at the hotel we're all wrecked & we've slot of gigs the nxt few days so going to go down to the bar for a glass of red - it can come out of the 30 weeklies I have left! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭Kay_80


    Any advice from anyone who has been on difene for an injury. Has your stomach felt upset/bloated just blah. I have a neck injury, and I've been on difene for about 10 days. I'm eating my pp everyday, not a morsal more and still drinking my 3L of water but i feel so crappy, granted I haven't been out for a walk but I feel I just terrible.

    Anyone else experienced this??


    Yes! They make you retain water & can upset your stomach lining causing you to feel yucky & bloated, the scales might show you have a gain but it'll be down to fluid retention & will come off when you finish the course. Hop you feel better soon colliewobbles :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭gaeilgegrinds1


    Colliewobbles, drink milk (I know it's high in pps but it should help)

    Ok...so I need to make a dessert, I'm the only ww person eating it so it needs to taste moreish...what do ye suggest? Something in individual pots I'm thinking and have a separate one for me...my OH knows and supports me but the other four couples coming to our party do not know...

    Any ideas?


  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭aspie mum


    Any advice from anyone who has been on difene for an injury. Has your stomach felt upset/bloated just blah. I have a neck injury, and I've been on difene for about 10 days. I'm eating my pp everyday, not a morsal more and still drinking my 3L of water but i feel so crappy, granted I haven't been out for a walk but I feel I just terrible.

    Anyone else experienced this??

    Was on difine a couple of weeks ago for an injury it nearly killed my stomach and I had to come off it....the Voltraol elmugel is the same effect on swelling and pain with out the nasty side effecs thats what my doctor and dentist told me to go on (sprained jaw with an infection known as TMJ)it worked really well but is only anygood if you can put the gel on the spot were the pain is....they also gave me a different tablet to sort out my tummy...hope this helps


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭colliewobbles


    Thanks for the info and advice guys, just needed to know that it's just not me. Will try the milk for a day or two, but if I still feel like this Sat i'm not taking them anymore.

    Aspie mum - a sprained jaw ?? That must have been so painful.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    jackmax wrote: »
    thanks for that :) will definitely try it out :) is it the full pack of qourn you use?

    Yep full packet!!
    LinK3 wrote: »
    Thanks Lizt, I made this on Tuesday evening for my family, using the 500g bag of quorn and I loved it.. The kids ate it but thought I'd done a different sauce, I always make my own sauces anyway.. My husband who used to be a butcher said he'd never have known it wasn't mince! We got 5 portions and I've one left in the fridge for myself tonight.. I also made the ceasar salad she gave us the recipe for, and it was divine;)

    Have to try out the salad recipe, it sounds yummy! I really couldn't believe the taste of it, I would not have known it wasn't meat!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Shoe Lover


    Ok...so I need to make a dessert, I'm the only ww person eating it so it needs to taste moreish...what do ye suggest? Something in individual pots I'm thinking and have a separate one for me...my OH knows and supports me but the other four couples coming to our party do not know...

    Any ideas?

    We aren't allowed to discuss desserts in the N&D forum - check out the WW cakes & bakes thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056272515

    Start of my new week today, feels weird because I didn't WI last night. First Thursday night at home in months, was wandering around the house like a spare part :o Anyone know where I can find a printable tracker on the web? I have the tracker on my phone but I like to be able to write out my meals a few days in advance!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭dammitj


    Hi all,

    Back to WW after 10 weeks away and I've gained ONE pound, whoop!

    I've been doing so much exercise that the Leader reckons that might not even be a gain, might just be muscle, but sure I'll see how I get on this week.

    Happy weekend everyone!


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭LinK3


    Any advice from anyone who has been on difene for an injury. Has your stomach felt upset/bloated just blah. I have a neck injury, and I've been on difene for about 10 days. I'm eating my pp everyday, not a morsal more and still drinking my 3L of water but i feel so crappy, granted I haven't been out for a walk but I feel I just terrible.

    Anyone else experienced this??

    Hi, I was on Difene for a shoulder injury a few weeks back, and at Wi I was up 2!!! Pounds.. My leader said it was the worst thing for retaining fluid:( I was gutted... I lost it again in the next two weeks though so don't worry.. Take care of your injury first, keep drinking the water, and you'll be fine.. All antibiotics can make you feel blah...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    Dear Diary......

    Got serious munchies last night!

    I'll try to be good today!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Shoe Lover


    Lady Lainy wrote: »
    Dear Diary......

    Got serious munchies last night!

    I'll try to be good today!

    You and me both Lainy!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 princess ash


    Thanks for that, the packet has the old points on it! How long have they been packaged for??!! The new system has been around 6 months!! I have been having a chicken or tuna wrap most days thinking they were 3points and lower than 2slices of bread!! Ah well, its back to the WW wraps now!

    (The tortilla quiche was still worth the extra points!! I'll just have to share it with someone the next time!)

    Ya dats really annoying isnt it? You think all the packaging wud be upgraded by now for two weeks i lived on those pointing them @ 3pp oops dats y dis thread is so handy u learn new things all the time:D
    PS the tortilla quiche does sound yummy tho and worth the points too haha :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 BabyBlueJeans


    Ya dats really annoying isnt it? You think all the packaging wud be upgraded by now for two weeks i lived on those pointing them @ 3pp oops dats y dis thread is so handy u learn new things all the timebiggrin.gif
    PS the tortilla quiche does sound yummy tho and worth the points too haha tongue.gif

    This thread is saving me a tenner a week! I have stopped going 2the meetings but am still doing ww myself. I weight myself at the same time every week and am taking part in GTI's "motivation thing"- thats my weekly weigh in. The summer is going 2be busy, I'm going away for 2weeks (plenty of eating out with lots of wine:)) and have a few weekends away. It will also be harder for me to get as much exercise with the kids on holidays from school. Its hard to pay and find out that I'm up a pound or have STS. I might go back in September to really work at losing the weight but I think my weight will be up and down over the next few weeks. I hope that by following this thread I will stay motivated and get tips to stay good over the summer! I really dont want to put back on the stone I have lost since March!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 46 oat


    Down 1lb last night, its coming off slow and steady but its a stone and a half in 3 months so I'm happy with that


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    Ya dats really annoying isnt it? You think all the packaging wud be upgraded by now for two weeks i lived on those pointing them @ 3pp oops dats y dis thread is so handy u learn new things all the time:D
    PS the tortilla quiche does sound yummy tho and worth the points too haha :p

    I'm having it today for lunch! :) horrible day out...nice warm lunch will go down a treat :)

    I have two muffins thawing out. back on the "scheduled" snacks! Little but offten is what works for me....

    Think i have a bit of cabin fever kicking in! This weather isnt helping! If its dry next week going to head into city and even just have cup of coffee and people watch...I have a few vouchers I might use up....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭gaeilgegrinds1


    Oh God I'm really sorry. Wee bit mortified now. I thought the whole idea behind WW was that we live a full life and eat a little of what we like! I made cinnamon meringues with natural yoghurt and fruit. Very low points!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Shoe Lover


    Oh God I'm really sorry. Wee bit mortified now. I thought the whole idea behind WW was that we live a full life and eat a little of what we like! I made cinnamon meringues with natural yoghurt and fruit. Very low points!

    That is the idea :) But because this thread is in the Nutrition & Diet Forum which promotes healthy eating, we are not allowed to give any suggestions for cakes/sweets/biscuits etc so that is why we have the other thread in the Food & Drink forum :) It's complicated! :p Would you post the cinnamon meringues in there? They sound delish! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭gaeilgegrinds1


    Ya no sweat!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    well so far today i've been good. but that wont enough to save me!

    Ah well! weather meant to start getting good tomorrow. So going to start on my potted herb garden!

    Anyone got basic flavoursome tomatoe sauce. I have pessata as a base...but what combo of seasoning do ye use :)

    All stocked up in my thai green salad dressing :) so loving salads again! For me drowning it in dressing is the trick! LOL! but it is 99% fat free :) so its not too bad :)

    really quick and easy 0pp tomatoe sauce:)

    http://allrecipes.co.uk/recipe/18120/quick-and-easy-tomato-sauce.aspx

    it makes huge mount...so the amount of oil someone would actually end up having is minimum....


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭Boop22


    Hi all,

    It is my second day on pp. Still trying to get my head off the old system and into the new but am finding it hard enough. It is like my head is programmed to the old points system and everything now seems so high in points compared to when i was doing it the old way:( I guess it is just going to take time to adjust. The worst thing for me is wanting something wit a cup of tea after my dinner but something for 2or3pp. Any ideas??


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Niamh94


    Down 1.5 lbs this morn, bit disappointed tbh as from what i've heard people normally lose an awful ot in the first week!! Chin up though, new week, new points :D
    Going to doc tomorrow for an antibiotic for a dire cough, does anyone know if an antibiotic will affect the weight loss??


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    Dear Diary

    Munch Munch Munch
    Bottomless Pit Syndrome!
    WI Tomorrow Morning! LMAO!
    Oh Dear!

    I'm stuffing my gob with fruit!

    CRAP!


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭fofany


    Boop22 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    It is my second day on pp. Still trying to get my head off the old system and into the new but am finding it hard enough. It is like my head is programmed to the old points system and everything now seems so high in points compared to when i was doing it the old way:( I guess it is just going to take time to adjust. The worst thing for me is wanting something wit a cup of tea after my dinner but something for 2or3pp. Any ideas??

    Stick with it & in a few weeks you'll have forgotten about the old points. Kitkats (2 fingers) are 3pp, Alpen light cereal bars are 2pp, funsize pack of Maltesers are 3pp, snack size packets of Jammie Dodgers (4 small biscs in each pack) are 2pp or rich tea biscuits are 1pp each. There are loads of low-point snacks out there. I try to stick with ones that are individually wrapped so I can't be tempted to eat more! Good luck with the weight loss. This thread is great for keeping up your motivation - well, WW worked this time for me & the only thing different was reading this thread every day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    off to bed!

    Tomorrow is a new day! Here's hoping I make good choices!

    Going to do out menu for weekend in bed! :) planning & prepartion!

    Weather meant to be better for weekend! Think I'll pick up few bits from sales rack in new look....i really need to get out the house...and have some human contact!!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Baby75


    Shoe Lover wrote: »
    Lady Lainy wrote: »
    Dear Diary......

    Got serious munchies last night!

    I'll try to be good today!

    You and me both Lainy!
    Same here well not so much munchies as in no control over what I eat I'm in my mam's so hard don't know were I am with food I've eaten bread White can't even remember the last time I had that I got soup for my dinner though instead of chips pizza and buger I got some grapes and never got to eat them lol they got eaten can't wait to get back on track oh and did get a bad case of munchies when nice stuff taken out after dinner tomorrow will be better
    I was down a pound this week and got a cross trainer for my birthday


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    Guys,

    Here are the results for week5.

    again, I've removed anyone that hasnt sent in weights for 4 consequtive weeks. These people can however rejoin anytime they want

    Regards


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭Boop22


    fofany wrote: »
    Stick with it & in a few weeks you'll have forgotten about the old points. Kitkats (2 fingers) are 3pp, Alpen light cereal bars are 2pp, funsize pack of Maltesers are 3pp, snack size packets of Jammie Dodgers (4 small biscs in each pack) are 2pp or rich tea biscuits are 1pp each. There are loads of low-point snacks out there. I try to stick with ones that are individually wrapped so I can't be tempted to eat more! Good luck with the weight loss. This thread is great for keeping up your motivation - well, WW worked this time for me & the only thing different was reading this thread every day.


    Thanks a mill fofany, I will make note of them! Everything I was pointing seemed really high so ive basically been afraid to eat anything other than my 3 main meals and then end up feeling starving going to bed:(. I defo want it to work this time and for the weight to stay off. I have been keeing within my dailies and haven't touched my weeklies. I plan not to use any of them seeing as it is my 1st week. Want to get a good kick start into it :) Hoefully I will see some results at my first WI on Wednesday. This thread is such a great help, i can feel myself getting slightly addicted but it definately gives you the motivation to keep going and to pick yourself up after a bad day.
    Thanks again for your tips :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭kildareash


    Hi everyone,
    Barely had time to keep track if this thread the last few weeks. Sorry for the random posting.
    Glad to c I'm not the only one who's had the munchies the last few evenings, I was thinking it was the cold!
    I really need to get more organised, just had pizza the last two evenings because I was so tired and hungry after work I cld barely even wait the 20minutes for it to bake!
    Got some nice fish fillets for today's dinner.

    Found out during the wk that the problems I've been having are more related to my stomach than my gallstones. Hopefully I'll just have to take a stomach tablet and it'll clear it up, but obviously what I eat will have a big effect on it too.

    Good luck to all those weighing in today, the new boards mobile site is much better than the old one so I'll be able to keep in touch a lot easier now :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Niamh94


    Hi everyone, just back from docs, all ok, I've been put on "chlorom" (?) for the week, anyone know of this causes bloating/hunger/water retention?


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭fofany


    Boop22 wrote: »
    Thanks a mill fofany, I will make note of them! Everything I was pointing seemed really high so ive basically been afraid to eat anything other than my 3 main meals and then end up feeling starving going to bed:(. I defo want it to work this time and for the weight to stay off. I have been keeing within my dailies and haven't touched my weeklies. I plan not to use any of them seeing as it is my 1st week. Want to get a good kick start into it :) Hoefully I will see some results at my first WI on Wednesday. This thread is such a great help, i can feel myself getting slightly addicted but it definately gives you the motivation to keep going and to pick yourself up after a bad day.
    Thanks again for your tips :D

    A more satisfying supper for 3pp is : packet of melba toast (6 pieces for 2pp), 35g extra light philadelphia (1pp). Spread the cheese onto the melba toasts & top with shredded lettuce & sliced tomato. A whole plateful for 3pp if you prefer a savoury snack. Or add 40g smoked salmon for an extra 2pp.

    Like you, I didn't want to dip into my weeklies at the start, but remember they are there to be used. If you are going to bed hungry, you'll get fed up & give up. I always make sure I have 4-6pp left for a supper or glass of wine at the end of the day. Good luck on Wed & let us know how you got on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    Niamh94 wrote: »
    Hi everyone, just back from docs, all ok, I've been put on "chlorom" (?) for the week, anyone know of this causes bloating/hunger/water retention?

    your best bet is to google it....cos alot of anitbiotics have a dozen different names depending what company that makes them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭Jwacqui


    Used to post here all the time! Had a diary but stopped when they closed them! Been reading here as I feel off the wagon a while back buy finally finding it again! Went to Eddies last night an just got a diet coke!

    You are all doing fab! Roll on weigh in! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭layviae


    just had half of the quiche that lainy posted... Amazing!!!!! Im stuffed (had it with a massive free salad and tesco lighter choices ceasar dressing) im gonna have the other half of it for lunch tomorrow and gonna make more for lunch in work!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭LinK3


    Hi, I'm going to a thai restaurant tonight with my husband.. Can anyone recommend low fat dishes, or a least the healthy choices..I'm not familiar with thai..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    Feeling MUUUUUUCH better today!

    Tomorrow meant to be a scorcher of a day! So going to pop into tesco in the morning and get some potted herbs :) have flower beds in pots ready :)

    Also got email today telling me the doggie obedience classes i signed up to are started next month :) I'm REALLY looking forward to to that! Get to show off my puppy! Tho by then he's nearly going to be a dog :) But it'll get me out of the house, interacting with people, and give me something to do at home, practice his training...he'll be top of his class!

    Going in on tuesday to hopefully get the implanon in. Also going to check out sale rack in new look. Pick up a few cheapy essentials....nothing actually fits....like it fits...but things look HUGE on me....so they make me look BIGGER...

    ALOT of REALLY nice stuff in there "inspire" range at the moment....i'd be buying it all (if i had any special occasion to go to)

    I havent had dinner yet :) But its already prepared in fridge, lasagne + salad 13pp, and have 5pp left after that :)

    I've also had my 2 litres of water!


  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭hollyhock


    Jwacqui wrote: »
    Used to post here all the time! Had a diary but stopped when they closed them! Been reading here as I feel off the wagon a while back buy finally finding it again! Went to Eddies last night an just got a diet coke!

    You are all doing fab! Roll on weigh in! :D
    Welcome back!!! Good luck this time,how are you finding pro points?


  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭hollyhock


    How was wi this morn,Lainy??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭flamelily


    hello peeps :)

    been AWOL this week due to lack of internet connection (stupid service provider.....swear, mutter, curse, rude words etc:mad::mad::mad:) and 'family issues' :( but am happy to say I was down 2 lbs :)

    had the serious munchies yesterday....didn't make the best choices :( but at least I didn't clobber all my weeklies.....was on the straight and narrow today and hope to keep it up for the rest of the week!!!

    Started week 4 of C25K....man it is getting tough but I felt great after and running is a great way to work off emotional stress....better than eating rubbish which is usually what happens!!!

    off to catch up on the thread and see what you have all been up to!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭Layla0509


    Delighted first wk back on track and with no exercise I've lost 3lbs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭Jwacqui


    hollyhock wrote: »
    Welcome back!!! Good luck this time,how are you finding pro points?

    Thanks!

    To be honest not amazing! I think its more to do with me than the program though! So this week I have given it an honest shot so I'll see with my weigh in!

    Haven't dipped into my 49 though, how are you finding it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭fofany


    Jwacqui wrote: »
    Used to post here all the time! Had a diary but stopped when they closed them! Been reading here as I feel off the wagon a while back buy finally finding it again! Went to Eddies last night an just got a diet coke!

    You are all doing fab! Roll on weigh in! :D

    Welcome back. I loved your video updates. Good luck with getting back into WW again. You've done so well before, you can do it again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    i think i'm going to get my self tested for Celiac, like bread really does not agree with me.....and tonight i had pasta...and not been feeling well at all...really gassy and bloated....

    any ww ppl with it? been reading that imitation meat should be avoided....thats me fooooked i use Quorn ALOT! hell tonight i had Quorn + Pasta


  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭hollyhock


    Jwacqui wrote: »
    Thanks!

    To be honest not amazing! I think its more to do with me than the program though! So this week I have given it an honest shot so I'll see with my weigh in!

    Haven't dipped into my 49 though, how are you finding it?
    if i use it propably,its very good,with fruit being no points,it helps,ive lost a stone since it started. tbh i haven't been very good these past couple of weeks:mad:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭LollieB25


    The most amazing thing happened this weekend, I have officially gone down a size. I bought my first ever size 12 dress yesterday :)

    It could have possibly been one of the happiest moments of my life to date, I actually almost did a dance in the dressing room :p

    I've shared this information with anyone that is willing to listen as I am so excited about it!!! WI again tomorrow so hopefully more losses.

    I don't think I'd even mind if I sts after this success :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 kareno.carlow


    LollieB25 wrote: »
    The most amazing thing happened this weekend, I have officially gone down a size. I bought my first ever size 12 dress yesterday :)

    It could have possibly been one of the happiest moments of my life to date, I actually almost did a dance in the dressing room :p

    I've shared this information with anyone that is willing to listen as I am so excited about it!!! WI again tomorrow so hopefully more losses.

    I don't think I'd even mind if I sts after this success :D


    Well done, it's worth all the effort to have moments like that :-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 139 ✭✭kc83


    Has anyone any suggestions on gud place to eat in Dub, south, which is reasonably priced, where mam can get her spuds and I can get something super light that I will stay within my pp for the day as went out fri night and had some drinks, and ate out at Indian sat (didnt stuff myself thoug)
    Shes comin up for the night, I really want to stay away from Indian, would love to go somewhere where I can get a njice ceaser salad or pasta and she can get chicken and spuds!!!!
    Any where in Dun L even


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Lady Lainy


    harb garden planted

    got parsley, rosemary, mint, wild strawberries, and basil :) all in tesco 1.60 a plant :) spent the afternoon putting them into planters... :)

    used some of them to do my cream cheese stuffed chicken breast :)

    I had a slight slip when i went to aldi :( bought some poppets....5pp a box....i've eaten 2 packets!

    But feck it...not going to let that put me off my healthy dinner

    50g Lemon and corriander cous cous over a 0pt salad, + stuffed chicken breast total 11pp!

    i'm still going to be over my dailies...but not going to starve my self!

    My mum is really getting into the idea of starting veg patch next spring where we cleared 15ft or ditches and briars. Going to start treating the soil now, manure from the stables, compost, and coffee granules! Get it rich and full of nutrients for next spring. Going to plant lettuce + onions :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 opheila


    Luigi Malones?
    kc83 wrote: »
    Has anyone any suggestions on gud place to eat in Dub, south, which is reasonably priced, where mam can get her spuds and I can get something super light that I will stay within my pp for the day as went out fri night and had some drinks, and ate out at Indian sat (didnt stuff myself thoug)
    Shes comin up for the night, I really want to stay away from Indian, would love to go somewhere where I can get a njice ceaser salad or pasta and she can get chicken and spuds!!!!
    Any where in Dun L even


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