AL Cadet programme

XWB

Bearcat wrote: »

Less of the we.....

Grimacing reading.

When I say "we" I mean the Senior TA Capts who couldnt really get any higher so we went a bit sideways and spread out our work base haha.

That's all in the past now, HR wont let you earn that much

xflyer

Ha ha, XWB they don't like what you say. The backlash starts.
Don't you understand being an Aer Lingus pilot is like winning the lotto being selected for astronaut training, getting the golden ticket. Being George Clooney or Brad Pitt. How dare you puncture the fantasy.:mad:

Being a pilot is just a job. They don't want to hear that.

Ok we both know, there's moments where it surpasses all other jobs. Today was one of those days for me. I didn't earn a penny but wouldn't swap it for any other day in terms of of satisfaction. But they are the exception.

Most of the time it's a grind where I wonder what possesed me to go down this road.

But it has it's moments.

Bearcat

I was only throwing into a spanner to spice things up! Anyway back on thread, sorry.

XWB

xflyer wrote: »

Ha ha, XWB they don't like what you say. The backlash starts.
Don't you understand being an Aer Lingus pilot is like winning the lotto being selected for astronaut training, getting the golden ticket. Being George Clooney or Brad Pitt. How dare you puncture the fantasy.:mad:

Being a pilot is just a job. They don't want to hear that.

Ok we both know, there's moments where it surpasses all other jobs. Today was one of those days for me. I didn't earn a penny but wouldn't swap it for any other day in terms of of satisfaction. But they are the exception.

Most of the time it's a grind where I wonder what possesed me to go down this road.

But it has it's moments.

It's great at the start. You get a uniform and look snazzy and woman's clothes fall off when you enter a room(mind you when you marry them it seems to solve that problem for them) but you get used to it after a few months and it becomes a job with long hours. Then of course you get bumped up to long haul and that's a whole new adventure and you enjoy the "staying in NY hotels and the prestige". But for all pilots a wet and windy night comes when you dont want to leave the wife and kids but you have to go and stay away for a night or 2.
I loved my job and I still love flying. My kids are grown and flown the nest, but in retrospect I would have liked to have been round more. Flying may be glamourous but it takes a lot of commitment and can be very hard when you have a wife and kids. But you have to feed them so you do your work. My wife you maybe flaberghasted to hear was an air-hostess so she knew the job but she was far from happy as the years went on with me being away on the long haul fleet. It's a 9-5 office job just like any other though, just on the top floor

xflyer

But for all pilots a wet and windy night comes when you dont want to leave the wife and kids but you have to go and stay away for a night or 2.

Been there, done that.

But you have to feed them so you do your work.

Yup. It's Ok when you're single and selfish.

I'm not even an airline pilot but it's part of the game. Lying in some B&B under the covers talking to the missus asking about what the kids did today. Yeah the glamour really hits you at that moment.:(

XWB

xflyer wrote: »

Been there, done that.
Yup. It's Ok when you're single and selfish.

I'm not even an airline pilot but it's part of the game. Lying in some B&B under the covers talking to the missus asking about what the kids did today. Yeah the glamour really hits you at that moment.:(

When I was in LA a few years back my FO was talking to his wife on kids on Skype or something like that. I was sickened....didnt even know he was born!

directPEPOD

Dont forget the visit to the slaughter-house at Simtech every three months :P

XWB

Might I suggest that all those who have applied go to their GP to get a bit of a poke and prod. Because you have to pass a class 1 to get in and you'd be surprised the little things that can catch you out. Smoking can knacker you for the lung capacity test. There's a long list of serving pilots who have been caught out at medical time eventhough they felt in perfect health! I would suggest an eye-test, hearing, blood test and a lung capacity(blow into a tude). The one in the Mater Private is more accurate and is very stressful sometimes haha. "Keep blowing" until you see the little gnomes...;)

And for the love of God dont be smoking or sniffing or rubbing any substances into you! If they catch you at that it's game over for good!

Hi 5

XWB wrote: »

Might I suggest that all those who have applied go to their GP to get a bit of a poke and prod. Because you have to pass a class 1 to get in and you'd be surprised the little things that can catch you out. Smoking can knacker you for the lung capacity test. There's a long list of serving pilots who have been caught out at medical time eventhough they felt in perfect health! I would suggest an eye-test, hearing, blood test and a lung capacity(blow into a tude). The one in the Mater Private is more accurate and is very stressful sometimes haha. "Keep blowing" until you see the little gnomes...;)

And for the love of God dont be smoking or sniffing or rubbing any substances into you! If they catch you at that it's game over for good!

sorry to fellow posters for personalising this...BUT.......

Lads, since we've now established that ye are EI pilots (not a dig!) hows about getting some no nonsense, bullsh*t answer to this:
mid-thirties, PPL with 70+hrs, mature student studying Aeronautiacal Engineering ~ outta 10, what are my chances???

and when ye say 2 to 3 then....

should i bother following my 'dream' and naively hope an airline would look at me, cosider me, at my age??

Hard Truths PLEASE....i'm pretty tough-skined :rolleyes:

MoeJay

At the risk of repeating myself...

MoeJay wrote: »

Bottom line, if you can and if you're interested -apply. No matter what your background is! If you're lucky enough to be made an offer - then you have a decision to make!

Seriously Hi-5, you stand as good a chance as anyone else. If you don't get an offer, you may have to try another path. There will be many in that position.

However, if you do not apply, I can categorically say you will have no chance.

Straight enough for ya?

EI-A330

WMU aviation student makes successful emergency landing

July 26, 1999
BATTLE CREEK, Mich. -- An Aer Lingus cadet is unharmed after making a successful emergency landing northwest of the W.K. Kellogg Airport today, when he encountered engine difficulties during a routine training flight.
A male cadet flying solo in a Cessna 172airplane, broadcast an alert to the airport tower at about 9:20 a.m. and made a successful landing without engine power in a field about a mile west of Highway M 43 in Delton and about 14 miles northwest of the airport. The cadet pilot was making a steep turn at high altitude when the engine stopped. Following standard procedure, the pilot leveled the wings and prepared the aircraft for a forced landing; this involves gliding the aircraft into the wind to the largest field to carry out a so-called dead-stick landing.
"The cadet accomplished this showing excellent judgment," said David Thomas, interim director of WMU's College of Aviation. "The aircraft was not damaged and the student was not injured. The engine problem is now under investigation."
Members of the Delton Fire Department found the pilot and plane immediately and reported the student was unharmed and the plane appeared undamaged. The student will be checked by medical personnel as a precaution. Federal Aviation Administration officials in Grand Rapids have been alerted to the event and will investigate its cause.
The cadet is part of Shamrock 5 -- the fifth class of Aer Lingus cadets to begin training at Western Michigan University's International Pilot Training Centre since the airline selected WMU as a training site in January 1998.
Thomas says cadet and student pilots are routinely taught such emergency landing procedures long before they are allowed to fly solo and the training paid off in this instance. "While flying with an instructor, students make what we call PFLs -- practice forced landings -- so that they know how to handle that type of landing should the need arise," Thomas says.
Thomas notes that the 60-year-old aviation program has a stellar safety record with no injuries to students ever recorded. In addition to Aer Lingus, Ireland's national airline, WMU has contracts to train pilots for British Airways and Emirates Airlines. WMU operates some 60 training aircraft.
"Our goal, of course, is to minimize risk and have a completely safe environment," Thomas says. "But the dramatic increase in the amount of flying done at this facility increases the opportunity for such instances to occur."

xflyer

Hi5, not an EI pilot nor ever likely to be. Just been around for a very long time in this business. Straight answer: Your age may be against you. However the rest will be in your favour. Particularly an aeronautical degree. But it's worth applying. Even if only for the experience of attending an airline interview assuming you get that far. Bit of practice won't harm you in any way. Airline interviews are tough to get. Fingers of one hand and all that.:(

Having said that no one quite knows if the age thing is a barrier. So apply.

On the other hand your age is no real barrier to any ambition you have to work as a pilot. Just money as you imply in your posts. I also detected a hint of frustration in your posts. A big hint given the tone of some.

Don't see this as your last chance, advice I would give to anyone.

airsofter.adam

aer lingus say that is will cost 100,000 euro :eek: and that they'l help pay some of the cost

XWB

Hi 5 wrote: »

sorry to fellow posters for personalising this...BUT.......

Lads, since we've now established that ye are EI pilots (not a dig!) hows about getting some no nonsense, bullsh*t answer to this:
mid-thirties, PPL with 70+hrs, mature student studying Aeronautiacal Engineering ~ outta 10, what are my chances???

and when ye say 2 to 3 then....

should i bother following my 'dream' and naively hope an airline would look at me, cosider me, at my age??

Hard Truths PLEASE....i'm pretty tough-skined :rolleyes:

You seem to be taking aviation as your vocation and that may well count in your favour. My guess will be that you'll be more qualified than a lot of the rest who apply.....but(there's always a but) I would imagine that through this cadetship Aer Lingus is looking to recruit people who are going to be pushing into atleast the long haul if not the captain's bracket by mid 30s. Cadetships always had the feel of trying to catch you young and tie you in before your could build a life that could be independant of the company.

Apply by all means for sure! But in my humble opinion your age may catch you. I think they will look for Under 30s, maybe even under 25 if they can get it. However there is always DE if you go your own way to goal!

el tel

A lot of the speculation and imponderables on this thread will only serve to psyche the would-be cadets out. Best thing the hopefuls could do is get the best application you can in as moejay advised and see what happens, meanwhile start brushing up on the knowledge in case you get called. I'm genuinely surprised there hasn't been more questions about what sort of things can be expected in the selection process. You really need to be thinking ahead with the assmpution that application form will get you to the next stage so you'd better be ready . In my day there were 16 places going initially, so my attitude was thats one spot for me and 15 for the other 4999 applicants - so bring it on! :pac: :pac:

aviteire

el tel wrote: »

In my day there were 16 places going initially, so my attitude was thats one spot for me and 15 for the other 4999 applicants - so bring it on! :pac: :pac:

Yea, In your day aswell, you had everything paid for upfront and had zero financial worry ! (I dont mean that in a negative remark towards you el tel but in those past times, that was the truth of the situation.)

As the old saying goes, "money makes the world go-round" and the €100,000 cost is the biggest worry to most applicants.

Aer Lingus messed up big time by not explaining the defination of "portion". For all we know a portion could be the price of a portion of chips in the local chipper in Jerez, or afternoon tea in HighHills farm in Oxfordshire, or a fancy MCC or a whopping 50 grand which still means all the young people applying (most of whom are on the dole or earning minimum wage) are still short 50 grand because NO BANK will lend 50 grand to anyone these days, well mabey if your parents happen to be the FSO or FOD for aerlingus or something like that.........

Delta Kilo

aviteire wrote: »

Aer Lingus messed up big time by not explaining the defination of "portion". For all we know a portion could be the price of a portion of chips in the local chipper in Jerez, or afternoon tea in HighHills farm in Oxfordshire, or a fancy MCC or a whopping 50 grand which still means all the young people applying (most of whom are on the dole or earning minimum wage) are still short 50 grand because NO BANK will lend 50 grand to anyone these days, well mabey if your parents happen to be the FSO or FOD for aerlingus or something like that.........

Im sure AL are very much aware that a 20 year old going to a bank for a €50k loan will have no success!

I reckon it will not be an upfront payment that you have to make, but will rather be an AL arranged payback loan that gets paid out of your salary once you start working with them. This way, you are likely to stay the ~10-12 years it will take to repay the loan with interest as if you leave then the burden of the payment is still on your shoulders, not AL.

But this is just speculation. NOBODY, apart from the beancounters in AL, knows what way it is going to go, so there is no harm in applying, all it costs is 20 minutes of your time to fill in the application. If it happens that you must pay up front, then quit the application, if not you are still in with a chance.

xflyer

LOL, if you depend on the beancounters in Aer Lingus knowing which way it's going to go. We're all in trouble.

Besides this might all be a moot point considering the economic meltdown that is going on right now. It looks like we are about to tipped into a world depression in the next few days. They're be banks going down like skittles not just in Ireland.

This might all be academic.:(

Tenger

el tel wrote: »

A lot of the speculation and imponderables on this thread will only serve to psyche the would-be cadets out. Best thing the hopefuls could do is get the best application you can in as moejay advised and see what happens, meanwhile start brushing up on the knowledge in case you get called.......

I agree. Anyone here who had filled in the application should be brushing up on their company knowledge. (I.E. Current fleet, future fleet plans, impact of external problems, route network, senior exec team and their vision for the company, impact of any future alliance membership, etc.) (I was unsuccessful in 1997/98, at that time EI was about to take delivery of their first A321, some of the other candidates weren't aware of this!) This of course being in addition to basic aviation knowledge if you have no flying hours.

XWB

Apperantly Aer Lingus will be doing apptitude tests by email! You do it and mail it back. Wonder if they will handpick the few they would have asked for interview to sit the tests or just send out a few 100 emails to all those who meet the minimum

What and age we live in!:D

directPEPOD

XWB,

I'd heard that rumour too but couldn't quite believe it - this is throwing up all sorts of surprises!

Wonder if they'll substitute mouse tracking instead of joysticks if its a DIY job?

pepod

XWB

directPEPOD wrote: »

XWB,

I'd heard that rumour too but couldn't quite believe it - this is throwing up all sorts of surprises!

Wonder if they'll substitute mouse tracking instead of joysticks if its a DIY job?

pepod

Doubt that. You misunderstand psychometric testing as it is laid out for a cadetship. This will all be picking shapes and adding up numbers without a calculator and finding number patterns etc. From memory you can use the old casio on a few of the sections with others is good old brain power. When I went in it was all paper and only about 80 people were called into HQ to sit the exams(we applied via post and were called for interview in phase 1, testing was phase 2 if you got through phase 1). I'd expect it to be a good old brain power test. You'll be tested after your interview again in sterile conditions(as the engineering apprentices are)to ensure you didnt have home aids! (hard luck lads). It is at that phase you may be tested in joystick or you may well go for a spin in the sim when it's getting close to the final bunch and they can check out your airmanship potential then.

If you want my opinion psychometrics have NOTHING to do with your piloting ability, only a few even remotely relate to pilot apptitudes, but Aer Lingus battle on with the shapes etc. Maybe this will be different. I think I called HR charlatans earlier, this is partly why...

directPEPOD

Ah so that's how they're playing it. I was talking to a lad who has an app in with Cityjet who just finished their cadet assessments and it was something similar plus the joystick tests then. Sounds like its gonna be a real slog just getting through the selection!

pepod

XWB

directPEPOD wrote: »

Ah so that's how they're playing it. I was talking to a lad who has an app in with Cityjet who just finished their cadet assessments and it was something similar plus the joystick tests then. Sounds like its gonna be a real slog just getting through the selection!

pepod

Well I'd expect any joystick tracking to be done in person with a joystick...we dont fly with a mouse haha.

I'd expect anybody who meets the minimum criteria to get an assesment sent out to them automatically when the applications close. Then when they get them all back in (and they may give a week to re-submit them) they will read applications of those with the right results in more detail and then decide who they want to call for interview(and re-test them).

eatmyshorts

Wise and sensible posts from el tel and XWB.

When a great opportunity like this arises, it's easy to go into speculation and hearsay overdrive on forums like this. When I applied for the EI cadetship, it was all done on paper and by mail, although luckily it only took 3 months from when I submitted the application until I was offered a position.
We didn't have the opportunity to share views on it has you are able to do here now. However, I'm not saying that that was a bad thing. I sense that some posters here are eager for info so as to know what EI are looking for in an application. Going into an interview or assessment with a preconceived idea of what the recruiter is looking for you to say or do is not always the best option.

The ages ranged from 18-30, but at least 50% were 21 and under and I would tend to agree that being younger will be a definite advantage.
Out of my group of 16, only 3 had any previous flying experience (el tel....were we on the same course?!), so it is not an essential part of the process. In fact, some of my classmates had never been in a light aircraft before.
The most important thing to show is that you are committed to the hard work and dedication that is involved, and that you have "you're head screwed firmly onto your shoulders".
Brush up on your mental and abstract reasoning skills. Reliance on calculators severely diminishes your mental acuity.
Be confident, but not to the point of arrogance. Know what you want and just as importantly, know why you want to do it.

eatmyshorts

XWB wrote: »

Apperantly Aer Lingus will be doing apptitude tests by email! You do it and mail it back. Wonder if they will handpick the few they would have asked for interview to sit the tests or just send out a few 100 emails to all those who meet the minimum

What and age we live in!:D

A few airlines are doing this now, presumably to weed out applicants before the expense of full assessment. I know Etihad do it.

The ones I've seen are the usual style...."Do you prefer the art of a painting or the art of an engine?"...."Did you cry if you made your parents angry?"...."Would you rather be a librarian or a farmer?".

They're also peppered with "control questions", effectively the same question asked twice or 3 times, but worded differently. This spots anyone who might be trying to answer "the way they think they should".

el tel

eatmyshorts wrote: »

A few airlines are doing this now, presumably to weed out applicants before the expense of full assessment. I know Etihad do it.

The ones I've seen are the usual style...."Do you prefer the art of a painting or the art of an engine?"...."Did you cry if you made your parents angry?"...."Would you rather be a librarian or a farmer?".

They're also peppered with "control questions", effectively the same question asked twice or 3 times, but worded differently. This spots anyone who might be trying to answer "the way they think they should".

From your earlier post, yes I think we might well have been in the same group eatmyshorts.

The psychological questionnaire was fun. I can't remember if I saw it the BA or Art Longish assessment but there was a question "would you be interested in a documentary about otters?" That caused a **** load of confusion and much cause for concern afterwards. I answered 'yes' because I am well into my otters, what right-minded person wouldn't? I even love touching the bollocks of the stuffed aninals in the natural history museum, but not the otters as they are in glass cabinets.

eatmyshorts

el tel wrote: »

From your earlier post, yes I think we might well have been in the same group eatmyshorts.

The psychological questionnaire was fun. I can't remember if I saw it the BA or Art Longish assessment but there was a question "would you be interested in a documentary about otters?" That caused a **** load of confusion and much cause for concern afterwards. I answered 'yes' because I am well into my otters, what right-minded person wouldn't? I even love touching the bollocks of the stuffed aninals in the natural history museum, but not the otters as they are in glass cabinets.

Can't say I recall that question. Not that I've got anything against otters, but I'm more of a beaver man myself.:D

XWB

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Can't say I recall that question. Not that I've got anything against otters, but I'm more of a beaver man myself.:D

For any of the young lads who want to be pilots and wonder what it is like...

View the above exchange between el tel and eatmyshorts! That's what being on the line or in the ops/planning room is like!

joey12

What other assessments do ye think will be conducted?