AL Cadet programme

delta_xray

XWB wrote: »

Now people dont have a need for club flying. It's all straight into the sausage factory

If you're "flying" the 'buses these days you do need a bit of club flying to keep real.

yaeger

O for the love of ..... I was referring to work experience during long summer school breaks not club flyers getting in ... However plenty of fungus flyers fly for fun frequently for favourite frequent flyer flapjacks for far flung flyins.. Now I am F-ing off.

XWB

delta_xray wrote: »

If you're "flying" the 'buses these days you do need a bit of club flying to keep real.

Yes but those who graduate a sausage factory find it hard to get rentals because they are not known in a club. If you trained there or got a PPL they know you and will rent you a plane more freely.

delta_xray

XWB wrote: »

Yes but those who graduate a sausage factory find it hard to get rentals because they are not known in a club. If you trained there or got a PPL they know you and will rent you a plane more freely.

oh i understand that, i was just saying purely from a pilot perspective and looking at how the automated systems on the Airbus have resulted in pilots doing a lot less flying than say pilots on the 707 or even the 737 to an extent.

XWB

delta_xray wrote: »

oh i understand that, i was just saying purely from a pilot perspective and looking at how the automated systems on the Airbus have resulted in pilots doing a lot less flying than say pilots on the 707 or even the 737 to an extent.

Dont get me started ...i gave that lecture to many the FO on a long trip across the pond in my time!

delta_xray

XWB wrote: »

Dont get me started ...i gave that lecture to many the FO on a long trip across the pond in my time!

tell me about it! you gotta love the airbus in terms of safety and the modernised avionics, but for pilots who have the burning passion to fly the real way the Airbus can be a let down. Still didnt stop me applying though!

what equipment were you on?

XWB

delta_xray wrote: »

tell me about it! you gotta love the airbus in terms of safety and the modernised avionics, but for pilots who have the burning passion to fly the real way the Airbus can be a let down. Still didnt stop me applying though!

what equipment were you on?

Started on the 737, went on to FO on 707, then FO on 747, then down to Captain on the 737 for a few years, then Captain on the 747 and later A330 for many years. Then got an A320 rating so I could cover European routes if needed, but rarely ever flew european after 1992.

Having psuh botton aircraft is fine as per workload, however I have had many experiances of the autopilot getting confused and doing silly things. Couple of times as Capt I took control to fix it. Pilots nowadays have it easy and taking control is not as natural. Indeed a pilot who flew 707 or in the old days is more likely to take control from the autopilot than a newer pilot. Aer Lingus never discouraged it if we thought I was needed, but I know some operators do discourage it! Dangerous in my opinion!

xflyer

Jim XWB isn't questioning your dedication, just making the point you must demonstrate it now if Aer Lingus is the take you on. Calm down. He isn't on the interview panel but pilots like him are. He been there done that and is worth listening to. It's a bit out of order to question his experience. It's quite clear he admits he was lucky to get a cadetship but it's also quite clear he would have pursued a pilot career even if Aer Lingus turned him down.

Of course you're both right. You do have to be rather single minded to be a pilot particularly if you don't have the advantage of having the money up front or get a cadetship. My advice to anyone who wants to be a pilot who doesn't have the money is to go to college and study something that's well paid and use that to finance your pilot ambitions.

On the other hand you can do what I did, essentially exactly as XWB describes it.

But again you miss the point. Those who really want to be a pilot take the risk. They dream of a job in the air..not a job on the ground. They decide what they want and go for it even if they realise that it's a risk. These guys may not go out with friends and may exist on basic rations so they can put all their money toward flying. They have the driven streamline mentality to succeed on a cadetship, because they come ready made for the conditions Aer Lingus expect them to work under.

I suspect we're contemporaries XWB. I missed out on the cadetships despite my supreme confidence that either the Air Corps or Aer Lingus would snap me up. As it happens I lost out on a technicality. This didn't dent my confidence so I got a job paying about £35 a week when an hour's flying cost about £45 an hour. One of the first things I did was book a flying lesson in Iona. I didn't even have a bicycle never mind a car so I caught a bus to near the airport and walked three miles around the perimeter to the flying club. Later I walked three miles back. This continued for a while until I bought a bicycle. Sometimes it took me seven hours of travelling to get a half hour of flying.

I say this not to cast myself in a heroic mould but to point out that you need to be dedicated to become a pilot. EVEN if you get a cadetship. I wasn't unique most of my contemporaries and friends showed similar dedication.

That's the way it is. I'm glad to see Aer Lingus is giving more recognition to that dedication.

However, I do believe going to college and getting a degree with the intention of using it as a means of putting yourself in a position financially to fund your pilot training is perfectly valid. But come the interview you better emphasise that.

On the other hand working in McDonalds or some other low paid, low prospect job in order to pay for your flying will set off alarm bells with any interviewer. Surely you could do better will be the question.

But that only applies to cadetships, for most would be pilots they only time they will be interviewed is when they are already qualified. How you got the money to pay for it will be as relevant as your Leaving Cert results.

I got into trouble with one or two early on in this thread for saying that if you really want to be a pilot you WILL find a way. I often meet people who say really wanted to be a pilot but for one excuse or another it never happened. I always listen sympathetically but I always think they didn't want it enough. They fell at the first hurdle.

XWB

Jim236 wrote: »

XWB you've acknowledged yourself that you got flying lessons and a PPL for next to nothing, and then got a place on a cadetship fully funded by the taxpayer. So in between all that, what risk did you take that entitles you to come on here and question someone's commitment and dedication, and berate their chances of getting a place on this cadetship just because they chose to go to college and better themselves rather than work a part-time job in McDonald's/spend their childhood savings in order to fund a PPL?

I berate nobody. I'm just passing what I have seen on recruiting drives before throughout my 30+ years in the company. Guys who come in with nothing but have desire so strong that they knock the socks off the interview panel. And believe me Aer Lingus has turned aernautical engineers away for guys who were delivering coal because the coal guy had passion and drive for the job that brought tears to their eyes. He had suffered for what he had.
I'd ask you not to pretend I had it easy, you dont know what componants made up my life and taking 2 aspects and building a picture is not really a good starting point. Perhaps my instructor felt I deserved the lessons...or he felt he owed it to my mother to make sure I had a skill....so foos could be put on the table..

cuterob

XWB would you consider doing a 'ask about being a pilot' thread.. there was a similar one done on an american forum with a delta 767 pilot.. i'm sure a lot of people would have a lot of questions.. i kinda know a captain with aer lingus who probably who i wreck his brains any time i see him with aviation questions.. he retired about the same time as you.. should i pm his name to you to see if you know him?

MoeJay

Some serious thread drift going on here....where are the mods?

Share your experience of the online assessment but don't give the game away; wait for the call to interview or PFO; read up on interview technique; study facts about EI and Airbus and commercial aviation and airplanes; in the meantime carry on with your current career/education.

As the selection progresses share your experiences. This process is designed in such a way so that EI will be pretty sure you are the person they want regardless of if you have a PPL or phD in Quantum Mechanics or the basic LC elements. So don't bulls**t the people who might offer you a job!

The topics touched in the posts above deserve their own thread! (and it will be a long thread!)

XWB

cuterob wrote: »

XWB would you consider doing a 'ask about being a pilot' thread.. there was a similar one done on an american forum with a delta 767 pilot.. i'm sure a lot of people would have a lot of questions.. i kinda know a captain with aer lingus who probably who i wreck his brains any time i see him with aviation questions.. he retired about the same time as you.. should i pm his name to you to see if you know him?

PM away!

On the other thing yes I suppose I could do that, however I will be away from the start of next week until the end of the 1st week of September. I have a walk on part with a charter airline! ....so I shall not be around from Aug 22nd to Sept 5th (I'll fit a TV to the FMC is needs be to catch the Slovakia match if needs be). So there may be people called by the time I'm back.
But when I am back I suppose I could do a Q&A if people are interested!

G.JRAB

Jim236

What makes you think any young lad who has a PPL has worked in McDonald's and 'squandered' their live savings on a 'hobby'. It’s patronising without mentioning how stupid and narrow minded your portraying yourself on a public discussion board. I’m 20 and have a PPL, certainly didn't work in McDonald’s or waste my live savings.

I deferred a choice to do Dentistry in a very good university. If I was to go to university I wouldn't of done an aviation related degree as realistically what better position does it leave you in than the next applicant? A top Captain told me aviation related degree's in university are as good as having a degree in surfing (just quoting what he told me). If you go to OAA and do their integrated course you come out with a foundation degree in Air Transport Management along with the fATPL.

XWB has been giving some great advice and you seem to be offended because he merely quoted what Aer Lingus desire in a Cadet. As he rightly said, 'if you wanted to be a pilot you would've done a PPL' not some degree that realistically stands for nothing!

XWB

G.JRAB wrote: »

Jim236

What makes you think any young lad who has a PPL has worked in McDonald's and 'squandered' their live savings on a 'hobby'. It’s patronising without mentioning how stupid and narrow minded your portraying yourself on a public discussion board. I’m 20 and have a PPL, certainly didn't work in McDonald’s or waste my live savings.

I deferred a choice to do Dentistry in a very good university. If I was to go to university I wouldn't of done an aviation related degree as realistically what better position does it leave you in than the next applicant? A top Captain told me aviation related degree's in university are as good as having a degree in surfing (just quoting what he told me). If you go to OAA and do their integrated course you come out with a foundation degree in Air Transport Management along with the fATPL.

XWB has been giving some great advice and you seem to be offended because he merely quoted what Aer Lingus desire in a Cadet. As he rightly said, 'if you wanted to be a pilot you would've done a PPL' not some degree that realistically stands for nothing!

You have the general idea. Firstly these OAA degrees and general degrees you get in flight school are much like a 15th ATPL exam....they arnt realy that great.
Aviation related degrees give you an edge really only toward ATPL theory(if it is a technical degree). If you come along at 23 with a degree and no flight time you will be welcomed, however if a 20yo arrives with a PPL he funded himself with a story about the hardship he faced...they tend to side with him. And if it was 1 on 1 you may find you degree fades away a little. In the end they want the guy who will take whatever base he's given, fly the routes and hours he's given and work as hard in the company as he did to get in. Mark my words...being a pilot is not a glamour job...it's very hard tiring emotionally draining work. Aer Lingus want the guy they know had the drive and determination to carry on doing what he loves even if others tell him he's wrong to do so.
Case and point would be, from 1992-2010 my wife nagged me to give up command on the long haul fleet and move into a permanent training job with the company(because I was away so much)..but I didnt...because I loved what I was doing. And that "stickatitability" is what Aer Lingus will want in a cadet.

Railjon

I did a bit of digging around with regard to the effects of having sizeable private hours or a PPL license and it seems that it would depend on the FTO that Aer Lingus chooses. FTE allows for lower cost syllabus saving £1500 and 20 hours pending on re-examination by the CFI. OAA do not and put all students through the same course of integrated study. I'm not sure if there are any other FTOs under consideration from Aer Lingus, WMU maybe? With ATPLs I believe the CAA has be involved to void the exams results so they can retaken under an integrated programme. Hopefully Aer Lingus will do some sort of CAA background check to weed those two CPL holders (insert expletive here).

FWIW, my situation education-wise is that back when I was deciding what to do after my A-level results there was a PPL or degree. At that time I didn't have enough dough for either outright, but university financing here at the time was very helpful in getting me a place at the University of Ulster studying Transportation w/ Aviation. Over the last few years I've taught myself the keyboard to exam standards and got myself a recurring annual scholarship which started to pay for flight lessons back in May. I've only got about 2 and a bit hours done but I've completed about three or four of the CAA exercises (4 i, ii etc.) but don't have the slip right to hand to check. Hope this is all enough to make me look respectable!

railjon

XWB

Railjon wrote: »

I did a bit of digging around with regard to the effects of having sizeable private hours or a PPL license and it seems that it would depend on the FTO that Aer Lingus chooses. FTE allows for lower cost syllabus saving £1500 and 20 hours pending on re-examination by the CFI. OAA do not and put all students through the same course of integrated study. I'm not sure if there are any other FTOs under consideration from Aer Lingus, WMU maybe? With ATPLs I believe the CAA has be involved to void the exams results so they can retaken under an integrated programme. Hopefully Aer Lingus will do some sort of CAA background check to weed those two CPL holders (insert expletive here).

FWIW, my situation education-wise is that back when I was deciding what to do after my A-level results there was a PPL or degree. At that time I didn't have enough dough for either outright, but university financing here at the time was very helpful in getting me a place at the University of Ulster studying Transportation w/ Aviation. Over the last few years I've taught myself the keyboard to exam standards and got myself a recurring annual scholarship which started to pay for flight lessons back in May. I've only got about 2 and a bit hours done but I've completed about three or four of the CAA exercises (4 i, ii etc.) but don't have the slip right to hand to check. Hope this is all enough to make me look respectable!

railjon

You'll find that the FTO even if the policy is no discount will not waste time, fuel and tach hours on training someone who has a licence. They'll basically run over the exercises and then when they see you display the skills they will sign you off as passed. You may even have to just sit a flight test and pay lip service and keep zipped. I did about 10 hours and when they were satisfied I knew it all one of the SFIs hopped in...we did 20mins and he signed me off. I had 70 hours at that stage so it was "a technicality"

Your situation is a practical one. College was the practical option and that was the smart one as you had "no choice" as such. What I was saying above(and perhaps I didnt say it too well) is that in the Republic atleast, the recent economic downturn has left many young people unable to get grants for university. The govt has put the fees up even at that. My daughter graduated from Trinity last year after a 4 year course. She got a grant for year 1 but was made pay for the final 3 when the new rules came in. It set us back the bones of 15K all in. Grants are now only given out to those the local authority feels are "at risk" of falling into drugs or crime. A young guy who came out of school after 2008 is more or less looking at either fully funding college with money he may not have, asking a bank(who most likely have less money than him) or getting a job(which doesnt exist here, so he goes overseas). Those people who are lucky enough to have squirrled away 15K or so for their future we'll say, will invest that money where they need it to go. If they want to be a dentist it goes towards dentistry or a pilot(a ppl) air-time. We live in practical times. And if you love it enough to take the risk, nobody can question your commitment.

Bearcat

Xwb, I really think you need to step back from this thread.

xflyer

Bearcat wrote: »

Xwb, I really think you need to step back from this thread.

Seriously Bearcat, he doesn't. Take it from someone who did it the hard way. If you don't like what he says, ignore it at your peril.
Some of us have been there, done that. For me I want to help the next generation of pilots. Anytime a potential pilot approaches me. I tell them the truth as I see it. I want them to succeed and I do my best for them, but I won't pander to their illusions. Neither should XWB.

If I put someone off, who really should not be a pilot. Then it's a success. But if I can help someone to achieve their dream, which I have done, then it's also a success.

It's suits my ego, in truth but whatever the motivation. If it's good there's no harm.

XWB

Bearcat wrote: »

Xwb, I really think you need to step back from this thread.

and why exactly is that?

Bearcat

Because you have utterly smothered the thread. I don't think it's one bit healthy as an ex tre tri tr what ever to be the self appointed advisor to young lads/lassies going forward.

I'm not trying to be difficult, disrespectful etc XWB, I just just think time out for out for a while. See the thread settle down for a while and your experience will called for there after.

XWB

Bearcat wrote: »

Because you have utterly smothered the thread. I don't think it's one bit healthy as an ex tre tri tr what ever to be the self appointed advisor to young lads/lassies going forward.

I'm not trying to be difficult, disrespectful etc XWB, I just just think time out for out for a while. See the thread settle down for a while and your experience will called for there after.

Haha if that's how you feel.

But mark my words. Some people here are on a disaster course.

Right new deal. If you have a question..PM me. It'll be easier to answer 1 on 1.

Bearcat

XWB wrote: »

Bearcat wrote: »

Because you have utterly smothered the thread. I don't think it's one bit healthy as an ex tre tri tr what ever to be the self appointed advisor to young lads/lassies going forward.

I'm not trying to be difficult, disrespectful etc XWB, I just just think time out for out for a while. See the thread settle down for a while and your experience will called for there after.

Haha if that's how you feel.

But mark my words. Some people here are on a disaster course.

Right new deal. If you have a question..PM me. It'll be easier to answer 1 on 1.

Work away XWB . The thread is now your baby with retorts of haha. All my reservations have been answered.

lintdrummer

Bearcat wrote: »

Xwb, I really think you need to step back from this thread.

I think it's a bit much to suggest he back out of the thread, you're not a mod.

In my opinion the argument about whether to study in college or do a PPL has run it's course and needs to stop.

Having read this thread from the beginning I think XWB has the most valuable insights to offer because he's been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt and as such I'd appreciate it if he kept up the good work!

lintdrummer

alcockandbrown wrote: »

Kinda makes you wonder because these guys have the PPL, ATPL exams, and CPL done, so all aerlingus would have to pay for is a MEP/IR/MCC and 2 months later start them on Airbus ground school!

It's been said before that EI are a company, not a charity. If they could reduce the overall cost and still achieve their goal then why not. Also, you said that they invited a lot of CPL holders to do the aptitude tests. I think anyone that meets the minimum requirements was sent the link to the aptitude test, it'd be hardly surprising if a lot of those who applied are aviation enthusiasts/CPL holders.

XWB

Bearcat wrote: »

Work away XWB . The thread is now your baby with retorts of haha. All my reservations have been answered.

Well I wont be round for the next week as I am overseas at this moment working. So I will not be posting here too much.

I dont want to take over the thread, but i see a lot of people who are on thw wrong course and I'm just trying to steer them back on.

Kunny

XWB to some degree I have to agree with Bearcat - I have been watching this thread since it commenced and in the last week or so it has decended into the XWB show. Obviously you have considerable experience in the industry but as many former AL captains have spoken to me with varying information and sometimes contradictory information it is important to allow the thread to settle a little and then feed back in.

el tel

Bearcat, may I ask if you are a moderator it if you have other authority here? Youve suggested one contributor to step back and you pulled me up for reciting the name of a person who was already named in the recruitment video. Jusk seeking clarification before full alienation

Delta Kilo

Seriously people?

XWB is by far the best poster in this thread. Some people would probably pay for the knowledge and advice he has given throughout this thread. He has given up a lot of his time to respond to questions and give his opinion as a person who has been there before and involved with cadets throughout his career.

Is it because he isnt saying what some people would like to hear that he is frustrating you?

Fact of the matter is people AL will hire the 20 best candidates that they want. The odds are still very much against you being selected.

Instead of knocking down XWB, who is trying to help you, you should perhaps look at yourself and instead of being upset that you dont fit the necessary criteria, see it as an opportunity to find out what AL are after and do your best to conform to that.

I, for one, look forward to reading XWB's posts as they are a true insight into what to expect - and that is coming from somebody who hasnt applied for the programme.

Long may they continue.

ABC 123

I fully agree with Delta Kilo. Perhaps the waiting is causing some frustration or something. I check this thread a lot, mainly to see what XWB has to say.

highlydebased

We are fortunate to have anyone who works/has worked at EI to be posting on here to give potential inside info as to how the programme might work. Some individuals are posting information based on what they think might happen or what they think Aer Lingus might look for- at least XWB has a veteran industry opinion and experience of working within the company...

So, it is quite dismaying to hear people wish for him to "step aside". There is an ignore user function if he bothers you that much...