AL Cadet programme

GoGoGadget

Have to agree with that, no news is good news right now!

Although receiving an email after the cut off on Tuesday I would take as meaning you weren't their first choice and would mean you'll have to really impress in stage 3. But it would be better than a kick up the a*se..

guerito

GoGoGadget wrote: »

Have to agree with that, no news is good news right now!

Although receiving an email after the cut off on Tuesday I would take as meaning you weren't their first choice and would mean you'll have to really impress in stage 3. But it would be better than a kick up the a*se..

Going by XWB's posts, that might not mean much, given the HR/Training divide. Anyway, once you're though then it's down to how you perform at your assessment. I wouldn't be put off in any way by getting a later email, nor would I read too much into it.

GoGoGadget

guerito wrote: »

Going by XWB's posts, that might not mean much, given the HR/Training divide. Anyway, once you're though then it's down to how you perform at your assessment. I wouldn't be put off in any way by getting a later email, nor would I read too much into it.

I do value XWBs posts highly but if there are to be 3 groups I can't see the divide in the first round of emails, as XWB has already accepted. I know of licence holders, non licence holders and a large age range accepted in the first batch of emails.

The first batch have until tomorrow to confirm dates. If someone gets an email after that cut off time it's likely that they were the back up option. I'm not in their heads and you mightn't agree but that's how I see it.

Again best of luck to everyone who got the thumbs up!

Tightwad

I agree with the last four posts. I think the training is said to take the same time as any other integrated course would at the well known FTOs. It looks as if they want you to invest time and money into the selection process without the fundamentals, i suppose it could be another way of weeding out those who aren't quite as "die hard" as said earlier. They must be expecting a portion of the candidates to drop out along the selection process purely as a result of not knowing all the details of such things like pay, FTO, T+Cs etc so those who haven't got the e-mail for stage 3 could get a nice surprise. I would have thought, unless you call them up (quiz them), at stage three there might be a chance to ask questions on such matters. For me and most others i think its one stage at a time and cross the bridge when you come to it, its still early days and the programme my fall through for other reasons out of our control...thats life. If nothing comes of it one may have lost a little money but gained the experience of being a part of this great opportunity.

pamsym

Railjon wrote: »

Let me clarify that I am not an insider and by no means a sage of aviation but I can't believe people seem to giving up so easily on such an opportunity, regardless of experience. Aer Lingus have proved unpredictable at best and in your situation I would still be hopeful of something happening this week with the first batch deadline coming up tomorrow.

Until you get an email from them, anything is possible!

I don't really think it is fair to say that I have given up, I mean it is out of my control.

I would give anything for an email to come through at any stage, I'm just not too hopeful that it will. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't love the opportunity to impress at stage 3, no matter what batch I'm in. Also, I did not intend for my previous comment to portray an opinion that I felt entitled to a place on stage 3 based on my flying experience. That isn't the case. If I didn't make the grade then I hold my hands up and wish those who did the best of luck.

I will pursue this career path either way and don't have any intention on giving up on it because of one "no".

Apologies if I took that a bit personally, I appreciate all feedback and input on the thread.

kona

chewits wrote: »

If anyone gets through the process it wont be too hard to narrow it down to who XWB is in Aer Lingus HQ.

hes retired

el tel

To anyone who hasn't been successful so far, don't get too despondent, if it's your dream you will achieve it and you may end up better off in a strange way. By way of example, in the year I was successful one of my friends also applied. He got through to 2nd interview but didn't get selected. Myself aside, I don't know anyone who had wanted it so badly and had done so much to achieve it. He had been in the air cadets, flew solo at 16, had a PPL at 17, and was doing a degree in Aero eng., and had very relevant airline work experience. A quality guy all round and the best team player you could meet. But Aer Lingus didn't pick him. Anyway, he completed his degree (1st class hons) and through sheer persistence and knocking on many doors impressed a few people and got a part sponsorship from a smaller European outfit and put himself through the JAA ATPL course. Was snapped up immediately and was soon FO on A320. After a few years of that jumped ship and was DE at one of the big boys. At 35 he is 777 SFO and training instructor and has flown the world. His career, prospects and lifestyle piss all over anything he could have achieved in Aer Lingus. Not getting an Aer Lingus cadetship was the best thing that happened to him.

kona

Railjon wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if we'll be retested on the assessments that were done online?

I was retested on verbal reasoning and some other one that was a disaster, considering I felt I did well in the verbal on rubbish in the other, perhaps they pick your best section and your worst section and see if it pans out that way again. We didnt do the whole test again.

dubberdo

This thread has turned toxic. I'm put off reading it. A lot of negativity...

kona

chewits wrote: »

I had him figured to be involve in the new a350 order or just an extra wide body himself.

Unless EI have their delivery pilots picked 3 years in advance , pilots have nothing to do with the delivery of new A/C thats engineering and qualities job, along with the Legal side of things.

I dont know what the hell your second statement means at all!

kona

dubberdo wrote: »

This thread has turned toxic. I'm put off reading it. A lot of negativity...

I find it amusing, no doubt EI are reading it and wondering what they got themselves into.

I said it about 3 weeks ago here, that if this thread is a microcosm of the applicants, EI have their work cut out.


Another small point , if anybody has a facebook account, Id consider deactivating it for a few months

happy_head

My friend who got through to stage 3 told me he was given a contact number in the email. He gave me the number but im unsure whether to ring or not. On one hand i want to know if all the emails have been sent but on the other hand i dont want to p**s them off by ringing and ruin whatever chance i had/have.

If anyone out there wants the number i can PM you. Ive become obsessed checking my emails every 10 minutes

kiwster

happy_head wrote: »

My friend who got through to stage 3 told me he was given a contact number in the email. He gave me the number but im unsure whether to ring or not. On one hand i want to know if all the emails have been sent but on the other hand i dont want to p**s them off by ringing and ruin whatever chance i had/have.

If anyone out there wants the number i can PM you. Ive become obsessed checking my emails every 10 minutes

Why don't you give them a call or email them anyway? You don't have to tell them who you are (at least not on the phone).

happy_head

kiwster wrote: »

Why don't you give them a call or email them anyway? You don't have to tell them who you are (at least not on the phone).

Was thinking of ringing alright but if they ask for my name what do i say? Maybe a fake name?? Ive always wanted to use seymore beaver

Tightwad

I believe XWB has stated earlier in this thread that he has a long experience in command of a good handful of different types. A retired EI Captain.

kona

chewits wrote: »

XWB isnt a pilot, so i assume hes involved in operations or engineering. With a name like XWB its an intelligent assumption to make.

he is a pilot, think he said he has hours on 747 and A330. He does contract work now.

XWB is a name Id expect somebody with a interest in aviation to make!

kona

happy_head wrote: »

Was thinking of ringing alright but if they ask for my name what do i say? Maybe a fake name?? Ive always wanted to use seymore beaver

Hi this is your captain seymore beaver, flaps to full, prepare for a rapid descent.

XWB

Just a few misconceptions to clear up here.

1st off Elvis has left the building, I am retired!

Secondly someone said that those called after tuesday were 2nd choice and have to impress extra. Not the case! I would guess from past experiance that a number of the 1st chice applicants will be for all intents and purposes mentally handicapped...now for example if you call 100 people to this stage and 60 turn out to be tossers you wouldnt piss on if they were on fire, that doesnt just mean that you're down to 40 for the next stage as that 40 may have other issues that you cannot carry them forward with. I can tell you that the large majority of cadetships in the past have seen people who were not in the group brought in as the people who were called did not meet the grade. I personally was a bit annoyed that stage 3 was the 1st face to face really as it allowes for peolle who are good at the tests to get through but the people "fellow pilots would like" get canned. An example would be the cadet group behind mine..there were 22 in that group and of that 22 18 had been sent rejection letters from phase 2(apptitude tests) but been called back again as the rest didnt meet the standard at the other phases. So the race is not run, if you have not got a no then you are ojn standby for a yes, you may well get a call in the coming weeks, even after the phase 3 interviews to ask you to come in to HQ for a chat. It's happened before and to be honest I would expect it happen again!

Lastly, if you can go DE to Aer Lingus or any other Airlines you are much better off for pay and conditions etc than these cadets...these cadets owe Aer Lingus something for lifting them out of serfdom, but you will not. Even when I was a cadet our wages at the start were a joke, while DE guys from the Air Corps were paid in some cases twice our salary. Id you cannot get DE to Aer Lingus then I can assure you that you will be snapped up by an Eastern Carrier, as they are all now well aware of the open market in Irish pilots who have been jilted by Aer Lingus. They actually look up Irish guys in Ryanair and ring them when they run a DE campaign...so all is not lost...

But remember the odds say that more will be called because I'll be honest...not naming names based on what I have seen here and around where I live and hang about, some of the guys that have been called do not have the personality or what it takes to get through. And more spaces may well open up. Also a lot of future Nigels may be called by BA and turn Aer Lingus down for this...another space open.

rallye150flyer

did anybody get an email to say they hadn't actually made it, i haven't received anything since the aptitude tests? i think its time to admit i didn't make it

Lustrum

I've been following this thread from the start and rarely post on it because frankly, I don't have any concrete information to add and have no interest in being another one who wants to speculate as to what Aer Lingus are looking for in a cadet.

However, it is with great interest and anticipation that I read XWBs and other experienced pilots well thought out posts on the matter, and am very grateful for their time and sharing of experiences here. So with that in mind, Chewits, please take whatever beef/agenda you have with the man and do whatever you want with it elsewhere - if you have nothing constructive please leave the thread for those of us who are interested in following the progress of the cadetship, regards, me (and anyone else who agrees).


PS. I'm also waiting on the email, congrats to all already there and best of luck

rallye150flyer

i couldnt agree more great post !

Gat Dayum!

So I know this has been discussed before but maybe XWB could enlighten us with his experienced knowledge?

Firstly, 15 assessment sessions, how many candidates do you think would be seen in each one? How many do you think remain at this stage?

Secondly, realistically, how old a person can it possibly be expected for them to accept on a cadetship? And before everyone jumps on me, I'm not making any semblance of a derogatory comment against older applicants, I'm one myself, but obviously the airline needs a certain number of years of service to earn a return on their investment and that's clearly the handicap with recruiting older people.

Cheers!

J21finn

Didn't here from el either to day , I'd day it's a safe bet to say didn't make it !

andy_g

chewits wrote: »

Any particular reason why you call yourself Extra Wide Body, XWB?

Are you excited about an aircraft which hasn't even rolled out yet?

Chewits. It looks like you signed up here to see who everyone was. If this is the case you may do so via pm not on the forum itself.

It looks like you are here to troll continue to do so and you will be banned.

J21finn

XWB wrote: »

Just a few misconceptions to clear up here.

1st off Elvis has left the building, I am retired!

Secondly someone said that those called after tuesday were 2nd choice and have to impress extra. Not the case! I would guess from past experiance that a number of the 1st chice applicants will be for all intents and purposes mentally handicapped...now for example if you call 100 people to this stage and 60 turn out to be tossers you wouldnt piss on if they were on fire, that doesnt just mean that you're down to 40 for the next stage as that 40 may have other issues that you cannot carry them forward with. I can tell you that the large majority of cadetships in the past have seen people who were not in the group brought in as the people who were called did not meet the grade. I personally was a bit annoyed that stage 3 was the 1st face to face really as it allowes for peolle who are good at the tests to get through but the people "fellow pilots would like" get canned. An example would be the cadet group behind mine..there were 22 in that group and of that 22 18 had been sent rejection letters from phase 2(apptitude tests) but been called back again as the rest didnt meet the standard at the other phases. So the race is not run, if you have not got a no then you are ojn standby for a yes, you may well get a call in the coming weeks, even after the phase 3 interviews to ask you to come in to HQ for a chat. It's happened before and to be honest I would expect it happen again!

Lastly, if you can go DE to Aer Lingus or any other Airlines you are much better off for pay and conditions etc than these cadets...these cadets owe Aer Lingus something for lifting them out of serfdom, but you will not. Even when I was a cadet our wages at the start were a joke, while DE guys from the Air Corps were paid in some cases twice our salary. Id you cannot get DE to Aer Lingus then I can assure you that you will be snapped up by an Eastern Carrier, as they are all now well aware of the open market in Irish pilots who have been jilted by Aer Lingus. They actually look up Irish guys in Ryanair and ring them when they run a DE campaign...so all is not lost...

But remember the odds say that more will be called because I'll be honest...not naming names based on what I have seen here and around where I live and hang about, some of the guys that have been called do not have the personality or what it takes to get through. And more spaces may well open up. Also a lot of future Nigels may be called by BA and turn Aer Lingus down for this...another space open.

Thank you means der may stil be light at the end of the tunnel ...

XWB

Gat Dayum! wrote: »

So I know this has been discussed before but maybe XWB could enlighten us with his experienced knowledge?

Firstly, 15 assessment sessions, how many candidates do you think would be seen in each one? How many do you think remain at this stage?

Secondly, realistically, how old a person can it possibly be expected for them to accept on a cadetship? And before everyone jumps on me, I'm not making any semblance of a derogatory comment against older applicants, I'm one myself, but obviously the airline needs a certain number of years of service to earn a return on their investment and that's clearly the handicap with recruiting older people.

Cheers!

Well we will say for the sake of arguement they have called 150 so that is 10 per session and we'll say for group exercise that is 5 per group(so 2 groups per session). Aer Lingus will run the session and then knock off all those who do not meet the standard. In the past it has worked like this : over 3 days in our scenario 30 people are called in and tested etc. All 30 may be pants so they are crossed off the list. We now have 120 left. However in the past if the 1st few sessions come up short they have called in people who were not called to start with. This is done because they feel picking the 50 or so for the next stage out of a now diminished numer(120) will undercut the quality mark they have set. Ideally they want 3 or more from EACH session. It had happened before and may happen again that all 150 are crap or only 20 make the grade, they will then call in the people who were close but just fell short in stage 2.
Do not be naive enough to believe they will pick the best 20 for the cadetship out of the 150 called to the next stage, if they want 20 quality applicants and they can only get 10 out of the current pool of 150, they will can the 140 and call in the reserves to see what they can offer. In the past they have been left with egg on their face as all of their selected few have bombed out and the ones they turned away originally have shone though.
To be honest until people get "we regret to inform you...." emails the race is very much still on. They may have(and have in the past) a "top 150" and a "2nd 150", and if they want 50 for the next stage and only get 30 say they may call the top ranked 50 from the 2nd string for assesment to fill the remaining 20 places.
Cadetships in the past have been schemes to try and get pilots in, not to get pilots in and they have gone without a scheme some years as the applicants were not up to scratch. This is over for people when Aer Lingus tells them it is. Until they tell you it's over you are still in with the same chance you always were.

On age. If you are over 30 it will go against you in my opinon.

Those with families to support expect deep quizzing on that, and questions about your plans for the 14 months you would not be earning, plus the reality of being based overseas and all that brings for kids etc and schools and all that. Also considered will be your progression to a330 fleet. Usually FOs with families who are on the a320 fleet do not want to move to a330 due to the nights away etc. It has been a problem in the past, and in fact currently they are sort of FOs who are willing to move up(hence I was asked to work the summer).
Those who were working before in a career will be taking a pay cut. There has been some BS about salary here but based on how it has always been in relation to the DE, FO, SFO and Capt pay I would expect these cadets to earn no more than 30k while they are on their initial 5 year contract in Gatwick or Belfast. Take out of that too your bond repayment for the year etc....with a family you may struggle. Aer Lingus may look into that depth or they may not. Regardless anyone with kids will know that earning less than 30k a year makes things a little tight...and you may want to look at how it may affect them in you take the offer...

While I'm on the topic I would ask people who are offered a place to consider what they are doing. It will be and will be a golden ticket and dream come through and they will be on cloud 9...but trust me..cloud 9 is a fair weather Cu that is moving over an area of string thermal upcurrents..and soon for those with other commitments cloud 9 may become a raging Cb struggling to make ends meet with bad pay and conditions.
For young lads it's great..they are care free..women will shag you when you have the uniform on and it's a killer shat up line!
For older lads who have families it may need some consideration...but could still me be a good move..depends on circumstances....also your wife may not be impressed if you start shagging and chatting up women;)...just saying...

shamrock421

Out of interest, has anyone (company side) heard any hard rumour's with regard's to the actual financing of this cadetship ?

Just be interesting to see what the story is.
Cheers

chewits

shamrock421 wrote: »

Out of interest, has anyone (company side) heard any hard rumour's with regard's to the actual financing of this cadetship ?

Just be interesting to see what the story is.
Cheers

Im no expert but what i would expect is;

• You pay your £80k Stg yourself for FTE
• They pay for your type rating and line hours
• You will probably have to sign a contract to them for ~5/6 years on a poor salary

Tweener

I've been contacted last week by e-mail, I have time until tomorrow at noon to choose a time slot for the test...problem is...I'm not sure if I really what this career change!!
My profile
- Late 20s
- No wife, no girlfriend, no children. No intention of having children or marrying (but yes to a girlfriend)
- Work in IT (Software Engineering)...on a scale from 1 to 10, I like it 8 (mostly because of the many workaholics common in this field, and because of the fear of outsourcing to India and China in the long-term)
- Live in Germany...on a scale from 1 to 10, I like Germany 5.5-6 (don't get me started on why such a low score).
I would love to move to Ireland with a well paid job
- I'm not willing to pay more than 20-25K € for this
- I would like to have one or more pets in my life
- I like to travel, but mostly by train

Should I jump on this opportunity, or wait again a few more year before being fed up with IT?
Thank a lot

shamrock421

chewits wrote: »

Im no expert but what i would expect is;

• You pay your £80k Stg yourself for FTE
• They pay for your type rating and line hours
• You will probably have to sign a contract to them for ~5/6 years on a poor salary

Thanks.
FTE, that is a real pitty. You would have imagined aerlingus would have taken the goverment's advice on board to help all of us in Ireland during the downturn to "shop-local" and in so support local FTO's and give the revenue to an Irish business that really needs it !
Intergrated training is so 20th century in my view. It is over priced and over rated.
I cant see many Irish lads getting £80K together.

Aer Lingus should sponsor it like the air corps do their cadet's and bond them for 14 year's like the air corps cadet.
Interesting side note, on year 1 of been an officer, an air corp cadet bond is to the value of €350,000!