AL Cadet programme

XWB

Tweener wrote: »

I've been contacted last week by e-mail, I have time until tomorrow at noon to choose a time slot for the test...problem is...I'm not sure if I really what this career change!!
My profile
- Late 20s
- No wife, no girlfriend, no children. No intention of having children or marrying (but yes to a girlfriend)
- Work in IT (Software Engineering)...on a scale from 1 to 10, I like it 8 (mostly because of the many workaholics common in this field, and because of the fear of outsourcing to India and China in the long-term)
- Live in Germany...on a scale from 1 to 10, I like Germany 5.5-6 (don't get me started on why such a low score).
I would love to move to Ireland with a well paid job
- I'm not willing to pay more than 20-25K € for this
- I would like to have one or more pets in my life
- I like to travel, but mostly by train

Should I jump on this opportunity, or wait again a few more year before being fed up with IT?
Thank a lot

I suspect some of the people who were not called read that through gritted teeth...

If you dont REALLY want it save yourself the time and money and dont go for it. To be sucessful at this you have to want it badly more than anything else, and if I'm honest you dont sound to me like you do...

chewits

shamrock421 wrote: »

Thanks.
FTE, that is a real pitty. You would have imagined aerlingus would have taken the goverment's advice on board to help all of us in Ireland during the downturn to "shop-local" and in so support local FTO's and give the revenue to an Irish business that really needs it !
Intergrated training is so 20th century in my view. It is over priced and over rated.
I cant see many Irish lads getting £80K together.

Aer Lingus should sponsor it like the air corps do their cadet's and bond them for 14 year's like the air corps cadet.
Interesting side note, on year 1 of been an officer, an air corp cadet bond is to the value of €350,000!

Well im assuming it will be FTE. Perhaps PTC could get a look in? But id say it will be FTE. Even if it was PTC they do all their training in the states so not sure if that helps all that "buying local" argument you were putting forward.

FTE are always quick to advertise the fact that BBVA can offer financial help, although the loan needs to be put on a property. From the UK or Spain if im not mistaken.
PTC used to offer help in line with AIB but im not sure if that happens anymore.

But do not be mistaken. You will have to pay for your training yourself.

J21finn

XWB wrote: »

Tweener wrote: »

I've been contacted last week by e-mail, I have time until tomorrow at noon to choose a time slot for the test...problem is...I'm not sure if I really what this career change!!
My profile
- Late 20s
- No wife, no girlfriend, no children. No intention of having children or marrying (but yes to a girlfriend)
- Work in IT (Software Engineering)...on a scale from 1 to 10, I like it 8 (mostly because of the many workaholics common in this field, and because of the fear of outsourcing to India and China in the long-term)
- Live in Germany...on a scale from 1 to 10, I like Germany 5.5-6 (don't get me started on why such a low score).
I would love to move to Ireland with a well paid job
- I'm not willing to pay more than 20-25K € for this
- I would like to have one or more pets in my life
- I like to travel, but mostly by train

Should I jump on this opportunity, or wait again a few more year before being fed up with IT?
Thank a lot

I suspect some of the people who were not called read that through gritted teeth...

If you dont REALLY want it save yourself the time and money and dont go for it. To be sucessful at this you have to want it badly more than anything else, and if I'm honest you dont sound to me like you do...

Amen to that!!!!! Been sitting here all day hopeing for an email to come and then this goes up !!!! Not cool :-( ....

shamrock421

chewits wrote: »

But do not be mistaken. You will have to pay for your training yourself.

In that case, I wont even bother attending stage 3 if I get called!
I was really hoping this would be sponsored

chewits

J21finn wrote: »

Amen to that!!!!! Been sitting here all day hopeing for an email to come and then this goes up !!!! Not cool :-( ....

I hope the email come through and puts guys like you out of your misery. Not fair sitting waiting. Id imagine once you hear for final if your in or out it will be better for you.

chewits

shamrock421 wrote: »

In that case, I wont even bother attending stage 3 if I get called!
I was really hoping this would be sponsored

No way man. It will be part sponsored. Like the old fashioned way of getting your type rating paid for.

Do you think EI are going to be giving out the guts of £100k to approx 10/20 lads. Thats not how this business operates anymore.

P.S. Be thankful a company is even considering paying your type rating.

Go have a look on what FR stance is on it.

shamrock421

chewits wrote: »

No way man. It will be part sponsored. Like the old fashioned way of getting your type rating paid for.

Do you think EI are going to be giving out the guts of £100k to approx 10/20 lads. Thats not how this business operates anymore.

P.S. Be thankful a company is even considering paying your type rating.

Go have a look on what FR stance is on it.

The only problem I have is im a young irish male in his early 20's living on the dole with my bank balance in the not so sunny side of -€0.00!
I just wish the fecking thing would be sponsored. I'd sign a 30 year bond if I had to if it was sponsored! Id scrub the hanger floor with a tooth brush for 12 months 7 days a week if it meant the CPL and IR training was sponsored!

chewits

shamrock421 wrote: »

The only problem I have is im a young irish male in his early 20's living on the dole with my bank balance in the not so sunny side of -€0.00!
I just wish the fecking thing would be sponsored. I'd sign a 30 year bond if I had to if it was sponsored! Id scrub the hanger floor with a tooth brush for 12 months 7 days a week if it meant the CPL and IR training was sponsored!

Well buddy im not in the know or anything like that. I can only say what im expecting. Hope something works out for you.

P.S. You know if you go down to Weston and say you want to get involved you would scrub the hangar floor with a tooth brush to be involved. Some day they might give you a paid job.

XWB

Look the financial matters here are simple.

A cadet and a DE applicant will be in the same financial boat!

My guess is that Aer Lingus have a bank who are willing to lend to their cadets and long as the cadet has a security against the loan. I earlier stated Aer Lingus would guarantee it, but it seems that in consultation Aer Lingus's accountants they were told the company could not hold a 2,000,000+ liability like that on the books. So you will have to have your own security for the loan....soo....not such a golden ticket moneywise.

It is now the same as doing an integrated course in FTE off your own bat from the financial end of it. You are basically doing a DE scheme but you get the job 1st and do the training second.

My sources have said more or less that if you cannot afford to go DE, you will have difficulty paying the cadetship fees.

If that is the case...given Ireland's current financial bother...there could be carnage selection wise over this...

chewits

XWB wrote: »

Look the financial matters here are simple.

A cadet and a DE applicant will be in the same financial boat!

My guess is that Aer Lingus have a bank who are willing to lend to their cadets and long as the cadet has a security against the loan. I earlier stated Aer Lingus would guarantee it, but it seems that in consultation Aer Lingus's accountants they were told the company could not hold a 2,000,000+ liability like that on the books. So you will have to have your own security for the loan....soo....not such a golden ticket moneywise.

It is now the same as doing an integrated course in FTE off your own bat from the financial end of it. You are basically doing a DE scheme but you get the job 1st and do the training second.

My sources have said more or less that if you cannot afford to go DE, you will have difficulty paying the cadetship fees.

If that is the case...given Ireland's current financial bother...there could be carnage selection wise over this...

Except you wont get the job first. You wont get a contract. You will be sent to FTE with a view of then going on to EI after you have finished. This of course will all depend on your performance @ FTE. I'd imagine all first time passes with at least 90% if not 95% ATPL passes.

shamrock421

XWB wrote: »

Look the financial matters here are simple.

A cadet and a DE applicant will be in the same financial boat!

My guess is that Aer Lingus have a bank who are willing to lend to their cadets and long as the cadet has a security against the loan. I earlier stated Aer Lingus would guarantee it, but it seems that in consultation Aer Lingus's accountants they were told the company could not hold a 2,000,000+ liability like that on the books. So you will have to have your own security for the loan....soo....not such a golden ticket moneywise.

It is now the same as doing an integrated course in FTE off your own bat from the financial end of it. You are basically doing a DE scheme but you get the job 1st and do the training second.

My sources have said more or less that if you cannot afford to go DE, you will have difficulty paying the cadetship fees.

If that is the case...given Ireland's current financial bother...there could be carnage selection wise over this...

I dont need to hear anymore, I havent a chance of flying the Irish flag for my country and its tourism industry now

I'm sure Nigels dad will pay for his training though. Another dream slashed

787Dreamliner

xwb, do you thing there will be anymore e-mails invits go out in the next day or two.?

XWB

chewits wrote: »

Except you wont get the job first. You wont get a contract. You will be sent to FTE with a view of then going on to EI after you have finished. This of course will all depend on your performance @ FTE. I'd imagine all first time passes with at least 90% if not 95% ATPL passes.

You get my point though. You are in the Airline 1st, and train to be a pilot 2nd. The 90% pass mark was around when I was a cadet..however if this is funded by the cadet I would guess the mark may be 80% or maybe even the 75%. They set a high mark in the past because it was their money training you not yours.

It was an odd situation with that actually. If you scored over 75 you passed in the eyes of the JAA and that was on your record...but Aer Lingus made you resit and FTO exam if it was below 90. You had 3 chances and then you were booted. However if you scored exactly 75 in the 1st ones you had it down as passed on your record and could move on to the next ones in your own time if you were booted.

Shamrock - Go forward as far as you can...until you cannot go further...atleast say you tried!

Dreamliner - I honestly have no idea. They may have more or may call more if the current "callees" fall short.

What I'd like to know is what they will do if not many have the dosh to pay for the cadetship...and let's face it...thats could easily happen!

chewits

XWB wrote: »

You get my point though. You are in the Airline 1st, and train to be a pilot 2nd. The 90% pass mark was around when I was a cadet..however if this is funded by the cadet I would guess the mark may be 80% or maybe even the 75%. They set a high mark in the past because it was their money training you not yours.

It was an odd situation with that actually. If you scored over 75 you passed in the eyes of the JAA and that was on your record...but Aer Lingus made you resit and FTO exam if it was below 90. You had 3 chances and then you were booted. However if you scored exactly 75 in the 1st ones you had it down as passed on your record and could move on to the next ones in your own time if you were booted.

Shamrock - Go forward as far as you can...until you cannot go further...atleast say you tried!

Dreamliner - I honestly have no idea. They may have more or may call more if the current "callees" fall short.

What I'd like to know is what they will do if not many have the dosh to pay for the cadetship...and let's face it...thats could easily happen!

Probably BBVA will be involved. They are just after capital security though.

787Dreamliner

im sure if you really wanted it you would find the money.. i know thats easyer said then done but there is always way's and means of getting it.

i know if i got offered a place i would find the money somewhere, and dont think i mean that daddy would pay for it cos dat would not be happening. but i would make sure i would get the money.:cool:

chewits

787Dreamliner wrote: »

im sure if you really wanted it you would find the money.. i know thats easyer said then done but there is always way's and means of getting it.

i know if i got offered a place i would find the money somewhere, and dont think i mean that daddy would pay for it cos dat would not be happening. but i would make sure i would get the money.:cool:

Mammy pay for it then. How handy do you think it is to get ~£85,000.

http://www.ftejerez.com/courses/integrated/atpl.php

99,000 Euro.
Although food and digs are included.

shamrock421

787Dreamliner wrote: »

im sure if you really wanted it you would find the money.. i know thats easyer said then done but there is always way's and means of getting it.

i know if i got offered a place i would find the money somewhere, and dont think i mean that daddy would pay for it cos dat would not be happening. but i would make sure i would get the money.:cool:

Where would you get the money? Honestly ! Irish banks are gone to f***.
This really should have been advertised as a "mentorship" and not a
"cadetship".

Thanks XWB, I'll go and have a look at the next stage if I can but if it is self funded than I am out. At a push, the most I'd get from a bank would be mabey €2,000 and mabey get another thousand or 2 of family so I havent a chance of getting 100 odd grand. No way hose

787Dreamliner

what makes you think its 85k..? you dont actually know yet? if you got called to the next phase you may aswell not be thinking about money yet untill everybody knows what the cost is..

you could also sell your body to get the money;)

XWB

shamrock421 wrote: »

Where would you get the money? Honestly ! Irish banks are gone to f***.
This really should have been advertised as a "mentorship" and not a
"cadetship".

Thanks XWB, I'll go and have a look at the next stage if I can but if it is self funded than I am out. At a push, the most I'd get from a bank would be mabey €2,000 and mabey get another thousand or 2 of family so I
havent a chance of getting 100 odd grand. No way hose

If you get to phase 4 you will be asked to present your finances and tell them how you plan to fund it all etc..and then you will need letters of acceptance from the bank.

When I did it we had to show our accounts to make sure we not not badly in debt and that we could afford the bond payments...or even be stable on the introduction wage.

smellslikeshoes

shamrock421 wrote: »

I dont need to hear anymore, I havent a chance of flying the Irish flag for my country and its tourism industry now

I'm sure Nigels dad will pay for his training though. Another dream slashed

I say this with the utmost of respect but you need to Man up. Semi sponsored cadetships like these are always only going to be available to a small number.
Be that because of the requirements or the immediate financial outlay.

The rest of us just have to work our arses off to get the money together to train part time while working a full time job, saving every penny possible. If you want it hard enough you will do it.

Tightwad

I am going to take a sit back, watch and chuckle approach to this thread for a wee while. That’s just too much speculation for me to entertain.

I will be going to stage 3 to find out the hard facts, nothing said on this forum will change that! Even though financially i am not in a position to pay the entire training costs.

chewits

If anyone thought they were getting their training paid for them will show up at the interview that they haven't a ****ing clue about aviation or being a pilot and just seen an advisement in the paper.

chewits

Tightwad wrote: »

I am going to take a sit back, watch and chuckle approach to this thread for a wee while. That’s just too much speculation for me to entertain.

I will be going to stage 3 to find out the hard facts, nothing said on this forum will change that! Even though financially i am not in a position to pay the entire training costs.

How do you think you will come across in the interview demanding hard figures across a table?

Railjon

chewits wrote: »

How do you think you will come across in the interview demanding hard figures across a table?

Smart I would have thought..

chewits

Railjon wrote: »

Smart I would have thought..

Demanding i would have thought.

And its one thing that every airline or anyone who operates an aircraft looks out for. is that the pilot should not be demanding. Demanding pilots lead to accidents.

shamrock421

chewits wrote: »

If anyone thought they were getting their training paid for them will show up at the interview that they haven't a ****ing clue about aviation or being a pilot and just seen an advisement in the paper.

I am a private pilot who was on a fully sponsored cadetship with european airline a few years ago but was let go due to the airline not having the funds to pay for our training anymore. Only those with wealthy parents where kept on! I then spent 2 years with aer arann working as an operations officer and was let go and again because of the downturn. I am on the dole and have been praying for a leg up. Is that to much ask. I feel bitter becuase once again aerlingus will recruit those who have the cash rather than the passion if you get my point.

It has been my dream since I was a young boy to fly for aerlingus. Fly Irish people to there destinations with a sense of Irish pride. The same feeling you get when wearing your county jersey in croke park.

Looking at things now, it is most likely I wont see the right hand seat of a commercial aeroplane until my 30's due to the lenght it will take me to save up and go modular.

Again, this should have been advertsied as an mentorship from day 1.

XWB

Lets cool our jets here!!

To be a pilot these days you need the money to do it. Cold hard fact...doesnt matter if you are a DE entrant or a cadet. That is just a simple fact. How that fans out with applicants will be interesting to see.

XWB

shamrock421 wrote: »

I am a private pilot who was on a fully sponsored cadetship with european airline a few years ago but was let go due to the airline not having the funds to pay for our training anymore. Only those with wealthy parents where kept on! I then spent 2 years with aer arann working as an operations officer and was let go and again because of the downturn. I am on the dole and have been praying for a leg up. Is that to much ask. I feel bitter becuase once again aerlingus will recruit those who have the cash rather than the passion if you get my point.

It has been my dream since I was a young boy to fly for aerlingus. Fly Irish people to there destinations with a sense of Irish pride. The same feeling you get when wearing your county jersey in croke park.

Looking at things now, it is most likely I wont see the right hand seat of a commercial aeroplane until my 30's due to the lenght it will take me to save up and go modular.

Again, this should have been advertsied as an mentorship from day 1.

When the Training dept thought this up after the DE scheme in November it seemed like the solution to all their problems but it has gone tits up now for many reasons and it is back to how it was. Rich kids paying for training and getting..like the DE.
It is a sad fact that cadetships are dead...to be a pilot you must have the money to train..it's that simple..

chewits

XWB wrote: »

When the Training dept thought this up after the DE scheme in November it seemed like the solution to all their problems but it has gone tits up now for many reasons and it is back to how it was. Rich kids paying for training and getting..like the DE.
It is a sad fact that cadetships are dead...to be a pilot you must have the money to train..it's that simple..

I love it when the truth comes out and dreams are busted.

Not in a morbid kind of way but the image of a Pilot being a "dream" job should be in the gutter where it belongs.

Too many people don't really understand the business of running an airline. How difficult an industry it is to keep your company afloat.

Blame the FTO's.

Railjon

chewits:

Good grief, where do I start.

First of all, nobody in their right minds would go in 'demanding' things and pounding the table as you seem to imply. Case in point, in applying for another cadetship earlier this year, I asked what the salary and terms were. I was invited to the next stage of that assessment, figures right?

It shows a clear head and the fact that you are planning ahead for your potential future as a pilot, maybe moving away from home, finding a home, car etc. and NOT some teen yuppie who acts FIRST and thinks SECOND. THAT my friend has caused a lot more aviation incidents than demanding pilots

As XWB has inferred this thread has gone downhill in a matter of hours and everyone needs to calm down instead of panicking about things that are out of their hands and irrelevant at the moment. In the last few pages I have never seen so much discussion and yet no information out of it.