AL Cadet programme

XWB

MoeJay wrote: »

Well XWB, feel free to visit me in the flight deck the next time you see me on the line and we can figure it all out then! I'll bring the Blue Book.

Suit yourself.

Xpro

So thats it lads?? I take it those who got emails are in and the rest of us are out:(

happy_head

This thread started out being a great source of info for everyone interested in the cadetship, some great info given by many experienced people in the know.

But lately these people and others are, in my opinion, ruining this thread with specualtions and guess work... If you dont "know for definate" you really shouldnt be speculating just because... "last time it was like this" "FR do it this way" "my brothers godmothers friends sisters boyfriend who works in EI said" "it was never like this" etc. etc.

This is a new-era cadetship and details are still sketchy, when aer lingus want to give the details, they will. So anyone lucky enough to be through to stage 3 will find out in due course. People guessing figures is doing no good for anyone. And i cant help but think some of the people guessing the low figures are trying to put off the competition.

Gat Dayum!

That is in no way the case xpro. In the mail it specifically says that if you don't accept an assessment slot your place may be offered to another applicant. And as xwb has said a huge number of people at the assessment will be deemed unsuitable, turned away and people will be called to fill those places. No one should be giving up hope until they get a mail telling them to forget it. Xwb mentioned a past cadetship scheme where out of 22 cadets, 18 were initially not invited for assessment. Keep the faith!

XWB

Gat Dayum! wrote: »

That is in no way the case xpro. In the mail it specifically says that if you don't accept an assessment slot your place may be offered to another applicant. And as xwb has said a huge number of people at the assessment will be deemed unsuitable, turned away and people will be called to fill those places. No one should be giving up hope until they get a mail telling them to forget it. Xwb mentioned a past cadetship scheme where out of 22 cadets, 18 were initially not invited for assessment. Keep the faith!

Well I wouldnt say that is 100% the case...but I would imagine if they find that they can only find 20 nuggets in the next phase they may call more people.
I assume there havent been and rejection emails yet...I would imagine that they should send them out at some stage as not all applicants will read these forums or have a source of info on the outcome and they may have cleared their diary for 2 weeks and not know that calls have been made. They would have to let these people know so they dont just sit around for 2 weeks wondering. That would be rather....unprofessional of them.

This is a new-era cadetship and details are still sketchy, when aer lingus want to give the details, they will. So anyone lucky enough to be through to stage 3 will find out in due course. People guessing figures is doing no good for anyone. And i cant help but think some of the people guessing the low figures are trying to put off the competition.

I am not trying to put anyone off. I am just stating that the figure or 60k is a non runner. It just wont happen. 30k is the top you will get while still bonded. If they offered cadets 60k the more experianced pilots would demand pay rises to reflect their years of service.

I just think that those with families need to recognise that 30k before tax and bonds and loans are taken off is not a great position to be in. And that may be a factor is people not being able to go on with it. Also if you have a morgage your lender will not allow you to drop your earnings and then add another 100k+ to your debts.
A lot of dreamers have turned down Ryanair jobs for this exact reason!

Gat Dayum!

Sure would xwb. Didn't you mention there would be more emails on Monday gone? Is there still no one who received a mail since the initial batch on Friday night?

happy_head

XWB i wasnt suggesting you were trying to put people off, it would be of no gain to you. But are you 100% sure the starting salary will not be more than 30k, do you mind me asking where you got this figure from?

richgeezer

If i have my figures correct from a cadet from the 1999 run.They where fully traine at no expense to themselves(FULLY SPONSORED).They didnt receive anything for the duration of the training.......
Once online they where paid 25k p/a. for 5 or 7 years(bond conditions)

This time it is a PART SPONSORED.

This time you might have to be based north or east at your own expense so you wont have the luxury of living with mummy or daddy plus pay a chunk out of your salary for the PART SPONSORED bit.

EI have never given anyone a free lunch ever.



XWB please can you confirm my figures.

Or you might have to part with a bank draft to a certain value and It will be returned to you after full training is complete.

chewits

I have to agree with the posts here. If you are in a career earning proper money don't be a fool and take the gamble.

You will have to pay for your own training, if you are selected for cadetship you are not guaranteed a job. One ATPL <90% you are out. One failed checkride you are out.

Also be aware Aer Lingus are for sale. Who is to say the new owner will want x ammount of student pilots. You will not get a contract so you will end up paying the 100k yourself and will be sitting like a duck.

If you have a mortage, child anything long term. Please be advised this is not the career for you.

happy_head

chewits wrote: »

I have to agree with the posts here. If you are in a career earning proper money don't be a fool and take the gamble.

You will have to pay for your own training, if you are selected for cadetship you are not guaranteed a job. One ATPL <90% you are out. One failed checkride you are out.

Also be aware Aer Lingus are for sale. Who is to say the new owner will want x ammount of student pilots. You will not get a contract so you will end up paying the 100k yourself and will be sitting like a duck.

If you have a mortage, child anything long term. Please be advised this is not the career for you.

How did you come up with that bullsh1t??

chewits

happy_head wrote: »

How did you come up with that bullsh1t??

please point out the bull****.

No.username

Wow, i haven't been on in a while but holy moley this thread has turned into a serious rumour mill! Where are people picking these figures from?

And chewits where did you hear about the 90% thing and the checkride?

happy_head

chewits wrote: »

please point out the bull****.

The 90% pass rate and the check ride failure you mention. Where did you get that information from? Because i havent seen that on any of aer lingus site or emails

chewits

No.username wrote: »

Wow, i haven't been on in a while but holy moley this thread has turned into a serious rumour mill! Where are people picking these figures from?

And chewits where did you hear about the 90% thing and the checkride?

If you do the training yourself. Go to CTC, PTC or wherever. Spend the doe and come out with your frozen ATPL.


If you are lucky enough to get an interview with an airline, not only will they ask you to pay for your type rating and line hours.

They will then look at your results and all ATPL's will need to be first time passes with 90+%. Also check rides need to be first time passes.

Without those things, checkride particulary, consider your career over before you even got started.

chewits

happy_head wrote: »

The 90% pass rate and the check ride failure you mention. Where did you get that information from? Because i havent seen that on any of aer lingus site or emails

Well its not something you would expect to see on a website now is it?

chewits

P.S. I dont mean to piss on anyones bonfire here but people dont seem to understand what they are getting themselves involved in.

This is a student job. Expect a student salary. [Student = No Experience]

happy_head

chewits wrote: »

Well its not something you would expect to see on a website now is it?

So can you not answer my question? Where did you get this info from?

Kunny

chewits wrote: »

If you do the training yourself. Go to CTC, PTC or wherever. Spend the doe and come out with your frozen ATPL.


If you are lucky enough to get an interview with an airline, not only will they ask you to pay for your type rating and line hours.

They will then look at your results and all ATPL's will need to be first time passes with 90+%. Also check rides need to be first time passes.

Without those things, checkride particulary, consider your career over before you even got started.

This is true - I have been told by the top brass that this has already been discussed and agreed with the FTO - it will be 90%+ and first time passes.

chewits

happy_head wrote: »

So can you not answer my question? Where did you get this info from?

Experience. People who fell for the shiny brochures.

Anyone who has spent over 5 years in the industry will know the sob stories and the tricks of the FTO's.

chewits

Kunny wrote: »

This is true - I have been told by the top brass that this has already been discussed and agreed with the FTO - it will be 90%+ and first time passes.

Thank you.

This is common procedure for any airline recruting.

If people don't know this basic information they haven't a suckers chance in the interview.

happy_head

chewits wrote: »

Experience. People who fell for the shiny brochures.

Anyone who has spent over 5 years in the industry will know the sob stories and the tricks of the FTO's.

Experience with Aer Lingus on this particular cadetship? You dont know the T&C's of THIS cadetship so why say with confidence that you do?

chewits

happy_head wrote: »

Experience with Aer Lingus on this particular cadetship? You dont know the T&C's of THIS cadetship so why say with confidence that you do?

Aer Lingus are for sale. They do not have capital to train students. Especially when said students might **** up a checkride and become worthless.

BA, a much more stable airline, expect their students to pay in a simalar cadetship.

Aer Lingus being for sale should have alarm bells ringing for any would be applicant.

Kunny

happy_head wrote: »

Experience with Aer Lingus on this particular cadetship? You dont know the T&C's of THIS cadetship so why say with confidence that you do?

These have already been decided upon and will be in the T&Cs. Now the 90% will not always be strictly enforced - but if you slip up in any other way it will be used.

XWB

Right issue to look at here...

Happy Head -

XWB i wasnt suggesting you were trying to put people off, it would be of no gain to you. But are you 100% sure the starting salary will not be more than 30k, do you mind me asking where you got this figure from?

I am using the old conditions to make a rough estimation of the proportion of wages the cadets can earn in relation the the other pilots in Aer Lingus. I have also spoken to accountant in Aer Lingus who told me that they will earn 28-30k a year as a paycheque.

Pass rate thing...when I was a cadet they told us we needed 90%+ to pass the ATPLs out right. That then became a 90% average. If you got 60% you were booted but if you got 80% you got a 2nd chance a week later to sit another exam the FTO set you as technically you had passed the JAA exam(pass mark is 75%)..you needed to get 90% in that FTO exam or you were booted.
You needed to not fail at CPL and IR. You could partial once but if you partialed twice you were gone.
Given that this is only part funded and you are paying yourself this time they may be a little more relaxed with it.

antonov225

chewits wrote: »

I have to agree with the posts here. If you are in a career earning proper money don't be a fool and take the gamble.

You will have to pay for your own training, if you are selected for cadetship you are not guaranteed a job. One ATPL <90% you are out. One failed checkride you are out.

Also be aware Aer Lingus are for sale. Who is to say the new owner will want x ammount of student pilots. You will not get a contract so you will end up paying the 100k yourself and will be sitting like a duck.

If you have a mortage, child anything long term. Please be advised this is not the career for you.

Hello all.

Long time reader, first time poster.

Chewits, just for clarifications' sake, are you or are you not accepted into the next round of the scheme?

Secondly, can you state one good reason why anyone who has been accepted, and has an interest in the cadetship, should not proceed at this point? Would you not agree that, without knowledge of the complete T&C's, anyone interested should continue?

I for one am not in a position to continue if the speculation over financing given over the last few pages turns out to be accurate. That said, we don't know anything for sure yet do we? Therefore I fully intend to continue to the assessments in the Raddison, and, should I be lucky enough to make it all the way through to being offered a position as a cadet, I shall at that point with all the facts and figures laid out in front of me make a decision. Much better to turn down an offer well informed than quit now on hearsay. I would advise all of you with families or who for other reasons financial are considering the viability of continuing to continue anyway, at least until the facts are more concrete.

I believe my approach is example of the well thought out and logical decision making process based on information, necessary in my opinion to succeed as a pilot.

I believe that those who are put off by your posts were never really meant for this career.

My genuine encouragement and the very best of luck to all my competitors.

Anto.

happy_head

chewits wrote: »

Aer Lingus are for sale. They do not have capital to train students. Especially when said students might **** up a checkride and become worthless.

BA, a much more stable airline, expect their students to pay in a simalar cadetship.

Aer Lingus being for sale should have alarm bells ringing for any would be applicant.

Aer lingus are not for sale! The states stake in EI may or may not be put up for sale, it is yet to be decided.

The current stake holders must have been happy enough for the cadetship to go ahead. If the state do sell their shares the buyers wont be able to do much to about it and AFAIK the new buyers have to stand by previous agreements.

There are no guarantees in the BA FPP either.

chewits

XWB wrote: »

Right issue to look at here...

Happy Head -

I am using the old conditions to make a rough estimation of the proportion of wages the cadets can earn in relation the the other pilots in Aer Lingus. I have also spoken to accountant in Aer Lingus who told me that they will earn 28-30k a year as a paycheque.

Pass rate thing...when I was a cadet they told us we needed 90%+ to pass the ATPLs out right. That then became a 90% average. If you got 60% you were booted but if you got 80% you got a 2nd chance a week later to sit another exam the FTO set you as technically you had passed the JAA exam(pass mark is 75%)..you needed to get 90% in that FTO exam or you were booted.
You needed to not fail at CPL and IR. You could partial once but if you partialed twice you were gone.
Given that this is only part funded and you are paying yourself this time they may be a little more relaxed with it.

Im not so sure extra wide,

Just because the student is paying for his/her own training, i don't see why EI need to feel obliged to accept a drop in standard. Never accept second best and all that malarky.

John_Mc

A friend of mine was hired by EI under the DE scheme 2-3 years ago. She spent €100,000 on ATPL with PTC and passed her checkride without any problems. She was on the line and approaching the final line check and under serious pressure.

Around that time, EI announced losses of €22m and she got the boot. She spent another 10k on an instructor rating but couldnt land a job with it.

She's now on the dole and 110k in the red with her parents home guaranteed against it.

These are the stakes people need to consider. I was doing so until I started reading what you get out of this gamble in terms of salary and job security: Practically nothing.

Best of luck to those in the next round, you're going to need it even after you get the cadetship

Kunny

XWB wrote: »

Right issue to look at here...

Happy Head -

I am using the old conditions to make a rough estimation of the proportion of wages the cadets can earn in relation the the other pilots in Aer Lingus. I have also spoken to accountant in Aer Lingus who told me that they will earn 28-30k a year as a paycheque.

Pass rate thing...when I was a cadet they told us we needed 90%+ to pass the ATPLs out right. That then became a 90% average. If you got 60% you were booted but if you got 80% you got a 2nd chance a week later to sit another exam the FTO set you as technically you had passed the JAA exam(pass mark is 75%)..you needed to get 90% in that FTO exam or you were booted.
You needed to not fail at CPL and IR. You could partial once but if you partialed twice you were gone.
Given that this is only part funded and you are paying yourself this time they may be a little more relaxed with it.

XWB - standards were one of the issues with the DEs - they are going to make sure the FTOs maintain high standards for this process

XWB

chewits wrote: »

Im not so sure extra wide,

Just because the student is paying for his/her own training, i don't see why EI need to feel obliged to accept a drop in standard. Never accept second best and all that malarky.

They werent so cold hearted even in the old days...they usually tried to help you as best they could until it was obvious to everyone that you could not go forward.