AL Cadet programme

kona

Are people not capable of separating the bollix from the good info?

If your put off something by what you real online, you really need to kinda take a step back.

chewits

John_Mc wrote: »

A friend of mine was hired by EI under the DE scheme 2-3 years ago. She spent €100,000 on ATPL with PTC and passed her checkride without any problems. She was on the line and approaching the final line check and under serious pressure.

Around that time, EI announced losses of €22m and she got the boot. She spent another 10k on an instructor rating but couldnt land a job with it.

She's now on the dole and 110k in the red with her parents home guaranteed against it.

These are the stakes people need to consider. I was doing so until I started reading what you get out of this gamble in terms of salary and job security: Practically nothing.

Best of luck to those in the next round, you're going to need it even after you get the cadetship

Thank you John.

One **** up, at the wrong time, will ruin your career.

EI will not pay for you to **** up.

chewits

antonov225 wrote: »

Hello all.

Long time reader, first time poster.

Chewits, just for clarifications' sake, are you or are you not accepted into the next round of the scheme?

Secondly, can you state one good reason why anyone who has been accepted, and has an interest in the cadetship, should not proceed at this point? Would you not agree that, without knowledge of the complete T&C's, anyone interested should continue?

I for one am not in a position to continue if the speculation over financing given over the last few pages turns out to be accurate. That said, we don't know anything for sure yet do we? Therefore I fully intend to continue to the assessments in the Raddison, and, should I be lucky enough to make it all the way through to being offered a position as a cadet, I shall at that point with all the facts and figures laid out in front of me make a decision. Much better to turn down an offer well informed than quit now on hearsay. I would advise all of you with families or who for other reasons financial are considering the viability of continuing to continue anyway, at least until the facts are more concrete.

I believe my approach is example of the well thought out and logical decision making process based on information, necessary in my opinion to succeed as a pilot.

I believe that those who are put off by your posts were never really meant for this career.

My genuine encouragement and the very best of luck to all my competitors.

Anto.

Antonov AN2,

For clarification i did not apply.

I am however involved in Aviation. And have been for the last 5 years.

XWB

Kunny wrote: »

XWB - standards were one of the issues with the DEs - they are going to make sure the FTOs maintain high standards for this process

Aer Lingus will be trying to cut out the in house examiner culture that has cropped up in the big FTOs. That was the main issue identified by airlines

happy_head

John_Mc wrote: »

These are the stakes people need to consider. I was doing so until I started reading what you get out of this gamble in terms of salary and job security: Practically nothing.

Best of luck to those in the next round, you're going to need it even after you get the cadetship

Are you saying your not continuing with your application because of the stuff you read here?? If so, then in my opinion you never really wanted it that bad, and you have let the scare-mongorers beat you. You should just wait and see what the t's and c's are!

XWB

happy_head wrote: »

Are you saying your not continuing with your application because of the stuff you read here?? If so, then in my opinion you never really wanted it that bad, and you have let the scare-mongorers beat you. You should just wait and see what the t's and c's are!

My advice here is get the t&cs but if they are crap then you have to have a long think about what you are getting into..thats all

chewits

I cant imagine EI will be throwing out T&C's until the last possible minute.

They will dangle the carrot for as long as they can.

happy_head

XWB wrote: »

Right issue to look at here...

Happy Head -

I am using the old conditions to make a rough estimation of the proportion of wages the cadets can earn in relation the the other pilots in Aer Lingus. I have also spoken to accountant in Aer Lingus who told me that they will earn 28-30k a year as a paycheque.

Pass rate thing...when I was a cadet they told us we needed 90%+ to pass the ATPLs out right. That then became a 90% average. If you got 60% you were booted but if you got 80% you got a 2nd chance a week later to sit another exam the FTO set you as technically you had passed the JAA exam(pass mark is 75%)..you needed to get 90% in that FTO exam or you were booted.
You needed to not fail at CPL and IR. You could partial once but if you partialed twice you were gone.
Given that this is only part funded and you are paying yourself this time they may be a little more relaxed with it.

Thanks for clearing up the whole pass rate and check ride issue.

Was the previous cadet salary not so low because EI paid for all your training? The reduced salary was a way to get back some of the money they spent on your training. In this case the cadet pays some/all of the training so EI havent invested as much in you and can therefore pay a better salary than that of past cadetships? Just a thought

XWB

chewits wrote: »

I cant imagine EI will be throwing out T&C's until the last possible minute.

They will dangle the carrot for as long as they can.

Maybe...but if they dont give a salary figure I would have alarm bells going off in my head!

chewits

happy_head wrote: »

Thanks for clearing up the whole pass rate and check ride issue.

Was the previous cadet salary not so low because EI paid for all your training? The reduced salary was a way to get back some of the money they spent on your training. In this case the cadet pays some/all of the training so EI havent invested as much in you and can therefore pay a better salary than that of past cadetships? Just a thought

So you accept when Extra Wide gives you the same information with "thanks", but nothing when i do.

Not feeling the love so im not.

XWB

happy_head wrote: »

Was the previous cadet salary not so low because EI paid for all your training? The reduced salary was a way to get back some of the money they spent on your training. In this case the cadet pays some/all of the training so EI havent invested as much in you and can therefore pay a better salary than that of past cadetships? Just a thought

Yes but this isnt 1974...the game has changed. Pilots dont make big bucks anymore like they did. 28k is a good wage for a fresh faced pilot in this day and age. Remember that Aer Lingus are paying for your training in a way. Because the cost of your training and TR is still being taken out of your wages each month(it just goes to a bank and not Aer Lingus).

XWB

chewits wrote: »

So you accept when Extra Wide gives you the same information with "thanks", but nothing when i do.

Not feeling the love so im not.

chewits wrote: »

I am however involved in Aviation. And have been for the last 5 years.

Bless your Little Cotton Socks

happy_head

chewits wrote: »

So you accept when Extra Wide gives you the same information with "thanks", but nothing when i do.

Not feeling the love so im not.

You need to read what you posted and read what XWB posted and have a game of "spot the difference"

antonov225

I've been using this whole thread as verbal reasoning practice for weeks

Filtering through sixty-seven pages of posts looking for the most useful information!

I certainly hope those of you through to the next round are aware that we will all be judged on our ability to work together as a functional, coherent unit. To do a bit of speculation of my own, I imagine the 'group exercise' will consist of a problem solving activity in which we use logic and critical thinking to solve said problem based on the facts given.

I believe that right now we should all be practicing the above skills, and I see no reason that this thread should not be a place where we can practice logical mental processes. I suggest that members attempt to base their posts on quality constructive content and drag this thread back into the sphere of usefulness. I for one am intrigued by the vagueness of 'an individual problem solving exercise'. Anyone care to comment?

Railjon

I can confirm that the cadetship is now fully paid for and it will be straight to the 330s and top payscale.

I have over TWO months of experience in aviation applying for cadetships!

GIMME MY THANKS

chewits

antonov225 wrote: »

I've been using this whole thread as verbal reasoning practice for weeks

Filtering through sixty-seven pages of posts looking for the most useful information!

I certainly hope those of you through to the next round are aware that we will all be judged on our ability to work together as a functional, coherent unit. To do a bit of speculation of my own, I imagine the 'group exercise' will consist of a problem solving activity in which we use logic and critical thinking to solve said problem based on the facts given.

I believe that right now we should all be practicing the above skills, and I see no reason that this thread should not be a place where we can practice logical mental processes. I suggest that members attempt to base their posts on quality constructive content and drag this thread back into the sphere of usefulness. I for one am intrigued by the vagueness of 'an individual problem solving exercise'. Anyone care to comment?

I would expect a aircraft technical exam. Basic level to ensure you have an interest.

Perhaps some true/false questions.

eg Do aircraft use Nitrogen in their tyres?

XWB

chewits wrote: »

I would expect a aircraft technical exam. Basic level to ensure you have an interest.

Perhaps some true/false questions.

eg Do aircraft use Nitrogen in their tyres?

Not on a cadetship.

Unfair advantage to given to aviators.

Why that is the case I have no idea.

kona

chewits wrote: »

I would expect a aircraft technical exam. Basic level to ensure you have an interest.

Perhaps some true/false questions.

eg Do aircraft use Nitrogen in their tyres?

What the Control surfaces are, what they do.
Theory of flight.
Fly By Wire
Glass cockpit
Instruments
etc.

XWB

kona wrote: »

What the Control surfaces are, what they do.
Theory of flight.
Fly By Wire
Glass cockpit
Instruments
etc.

Dont forget autoland

antonov225

chewits wrote: »

I would expect a aircraft technical exam. Basic level to ensure you have an interest.

Perhaps some true/false questions.

eg Do aircraft use Nitrogen in their tyres?

Really? I had considered that, and of course a good level of technical knowledge would show that you are truly enthusiastic, but I wonder what level of technical knowledge is expected...

I would have thought that the exercise would be used more to determine your analytic abilities and as such would be one of those abstract problems you cannot prepare for.

I would certainly expect them to have a 'surprise' for this section of the assessment to see how you handle the pressure of an unfamiliar challenge.

That said I'm certainly brushing up on my general aviation knowledge.

XWB

antonov225 wrote: »

Really? I had considered that, and of course a good level of technical knowledge would show that you are truly enthusiastic, but I wonder what level of technical knowledge is expected...

I would have thought that the exercise would be used more to determine your analytic abilities and as such would be one of those abstract problems you cannot prepare for.

I would certainly expect them to have a 'surprise' for this section of the assessment to see how you handle the pressure of an unfamiliar challenge.

That said I'm certainly brushing up on my general aviation knowledge.

Dont overthink it all. That is not a desirable trait in a pilot!:D in my experiance aviation nerds dont make good pilots.

I just thought of something. Have you all been to specsavers? Colour-blindness tests? All medically sound for a class 1. That as taken the legs from under a lot of people in the past!

chewits

antonov225 wrote: »

Really? I had considered that, and of course a good level of technical knowledge would show that you are truly enthusiastic, but I wonder what level of technical knowledge is expected...

I would have thought that the exercise would be used more to determine your analytic abilities and as such would be one of those abstract problems you cannot prepare for.

I would certainly expect them to have a 'surprise' for this section of the assessment to see how you handle the pressure of an unfamiliar challenge.

That said I'm certainly brushing up on my general aviation knowledge.

I am sure it wont do any harm knowing how an aircraft creates lift.

Im sure there would be some red faces if one was asked how is lift created to a would be pilot in an interview situation, and they offered nothing in return but a blank face.

I think EPIC FAIL is a term used now with the general population.

GoGoGadget

chewits wrote: »

Im sure there would be some red faces if one was asked how is lift created to a would be pilot in an interview situation, and they offered nothing in return but a blank face.

White man magic..??

Kunny

happy_head wrote: »

You need to read what you posted and read what XWB posted and have a game of "spot the difference"

Happy it is probably fair to give credit where it is due. In this case chewit did mention the topic of pass rates etc. which in turn led to XWBs comments on it. I know chewit has an unusual way of addresssing issues at times, but advice from all people involved in the industry should be welcome. If you go in with the attitude that there is only one man of importance (for example your captain) you will not get past the next stage. Best of luck to you, but take all advice graciously.

antonov225

chewits wrote: »

I am sure it wont do any harm knowing how an aircraft creates lift.

Im sure there would be some red faces if one was asked how is lift created to a would be pilot in an interview situation, and they offered nothing in return but a blank face.

I think EPIC FAIL is a term used now with the general population.

Yes, well of course one must know the basics. I'm doing a reasonable amount of study though I'm spending more time learning about EI and airline life/news in general than technical details. Hope it doesn't go against me.

XWB very good point, though to be honest I'm not spending the €€€ for a Class 1 until I have to (yes I'm aware it's an insignificant cost in the grand scheme). I have a very active lifestyle with no medical issues and have recent perfect eye and hearing tests so I'm not expecting any trouble there.

XWB

antonov225 wrote: »

XWB very good point, though to be honest I'm not spending the €€€ for a Class 1 until I have to (yes I'm aware it's an insignificant cost in the grand scheme). I have a very active lifestyle with no medical issues and have recent perfect eye and hearing tests so I'm not expecting any trouble there.

I'm not saying you're not. But I've heard that before!:D

Colour-blindness is the main issues that catches newbies.

antonov225

XWB wrote: »

I'm not saying you're not. But I've heard that before!:D

Colour-blindness is the main issues that catches newbies.

I'm sure you have. Well, here's hoping. Would I be wrong to assume that someone who spends a lot of time outdoors (triathlon etc.) shouldn't expect any problems? Definitely not colour blind, had that one checked out already because it's such a well known issue!

dubberdo

chewits wrote: »

Antonov AN2,

For clarification i did not apply.

I am however involved in Aviation. And have been for the last 5 years.

I highly doubt you are involved and if you are you certainly aren't anywhere near an aircraft. If you are near an aircraft you shouldn't be allowed because in another thread you suggested Ryanair pilots were trained to land on the nosewheel... Just as well you didn't apply for cadetship because you'd be a tough cookie to mould. Sciolist!

XWB

antonov225 wrote: »

I'm sure you have. Well, here's hoping. Would I be wrong to assume that someone who spends a lot of time outdoors (triathlon etc.) shouldn't expect any problems? Definitely not colour blind, had that one checked out already because it's such a well known issue!

If you have low white cell counts or low red cell counts or protein deficiency etc you can be caught. Lung capacity should be ok if you exercise. Heart shluld be healthy. Medical history can be an issue for people too.

You will have to present reports from your Drs on any hospital admissions or head injuries.

GoGoGadget

XWB wrote: »

Colour-blindness is the main issues that catches newbies.

Apparently it affects about 1 in 20 men and 1 in 200 women!