AL Cadet programme

BigBirdie

Tenger wrote: »

Probably. If not on the first interview but defintiely at some point. At a basic level knowing about aircraft and the physics of flying shows you have an interest in the aviation sector. You don't have to be a complete anorak but you do need to knew something.

I'm sure the pilots here can recommend a few books...."Flying the Big Jets" by Stanley Stewart perhaps?

Also know the EI fleet, current and future as well as any changes happening over the next 19 weeks.

Thanks Tenger, I appreciate the advice.

Good luck if you are going for it too.

antonov225

Appreciate the response XWB.

Hey, that's why I'm asking the questions right? It has never been my intention to sign anything unless there is full transparency on T&C's in a contract which will be read and re-read by both me and my solicitor! I would also require guarantees on future prospects for advancement subject of course to my performance.

It's starting to look like I might be too needy for Aer Lingus if they really are after 'airheads' as you say willing to sell themselves short for the privilege of flying.

Well, as I said before no reason to stop giving this application everything I have at least until an offer is on the table. What I'm concerned about is getting and offer which seems fair and attractive only to have a forced renegotiation by new bosses later. In your experience in the company XWB would you say they were fair and reasonable to you as an employee over your career, generally good people to work for? Weren't you made redundant under Greenfield? Were you given a fair package or do you think you were treated unfairly after your long service/loyalty?

This is all of course hypothetical as who knows if I'm the kind of guy they want anyway.

chewits

BigBirdie wrote: »

I have my interview on Wednesday, starting to get really excited now. Just a question though. I don't know a huge amount about different types of airplanes or the physics of flying. Is that likely to come into question?

If you start off your interview with "how you always loved aviation" and "it was a dream to become a pilot".

You will have a lot of egg on your face when you cant explain how an aircraft produces lift.

XWB

chewits wrote: »

If you start off your interview with "how you always loved aviation" and "it was a dream to become a pilot".

You will have a lot of egg on your face when you cant explain how an aircraft produces lift.

Not really. You could love aviation he but not have a really good knowledge of how it all works. Some people just dont like the physics of it all. I was more of a fan of AGK and POF etc in the ATPLs..didnt like the general nav stuff etc...but some people are the other way round. Rare to get a jack of all trades.
Some people also get a PPL handy enough but and ATPL is very different and a lotta people wash out when it comes to the ATPL knowledge etc.

chewits

XWB wrote: »

Not really. You could love aviation he but not have a really good knowledge of how it all works. Some people just dont like the physics of it all. I was more of a fan of AGK and POF etc in the ATPLs..didnt like the general nav stuff etc...but some people are the other way round. Rare to get a jack of all trades.
Some people also get a PPL handy enough but and ATPL is very different and a lotta people wash out when it comes to the ATPL knowledge etc.

Anyone who proclaims to love Aviation needs to know what actually gets the aircraft in the air.

NxtBigThing

Has anybody any information or insight into what we should expect, or what these 'Group Exercises' may entail?? Im presuming they will be a lot different to the usual Assessment Centre exercises for other jobs, and really geared towards aviation... or does it really matter??

chewits

NxtBigThing wrote: »

Has anybody any information or insight into what we should expect, or what these 'Group Exercises' may entail?? Im presuming they will be a lot different to the usual Assessment Centre exercises for other jobs, and really geared towards aviation... or does it really matter??

I can guarantee it will measure two things every company should look for in an airline pilot.

Multi Crew Corporation
Situational Awarness

Tenger

chewits wrote: »

I can guarantee it will measure two things every company should look for in an airline pilot.

Multi Crew Corporation
Situational Awarness

Is that another term for CRM?
Or does it refer to the business side of things?

chewits

Tenger wrote: »

Is that another term for CRM?
Or does it refer to the business side of things?

http://www.oaa.com/pages/training_courses/type/mcc.php

boredbaby

chewits wrote: »

Tenger wrote: »

Is that another term for CRM?
Or does it refer to the business side of things?

http://www.oaa.com/pages/training_courses/type/mcc.php

Think he was being sarcastic Chewits. It's Multi Crew Co-operation, not corporation!

chewits

boredbaby wrote: »

Think he was being sarcastic Chewits. It's Multi Crew Co-operation, not corporation!

Ah.

Darn Spelling.

XWB

chewits wrote: »

Anyone who proclaims to love Aviation needs to know what actually gets the aircraft in the air.

And if you reply "the wongs generate lift" that will do you.

Sure I know pilots who forgot half their POF stuff after 10 years in the airline!

basill

An earlier question was raised regarding pay. Now I have no idea what rate any cadets will be paid nor if it will be any different to what we are currently paid but here goes.

A year one FO in Dublin starting salary WAS €57,888.20 gross. Note I say WAS. That was pre Greenfield and is from the only salary scale that has been published in recent years. The union conceded to have a 10% across the board pay cut in order to achieve the Greenfield savings that they agreed with the company. For many FOs if actually meant they earnt less than when they entered the company after 4-5 years of service the cut was so severe. Hence why so many have left for greener pastures and no longer buy into the "dream" that herr mueller and his band of cohorts would have you believe.

There are 3 elements to our remuneration. First is salary as outlined above. Then we get sector pay which is tax free in our hands. Whether AL pays the Revenue any tax on this I have no idea. Sector pay on average equates to around 8-10k per year. It is obviously dependent on how much flying you do a year and to which destinations. Finally we get performance pay. There is a long history to this element of our pay and it was effectively an overtime rate once we went over a certain threshold of hours in a year. In years gone by as an FO you could expect to receive a cheque just before Xmas for anything up to around 10k after tax. Sadly those days are long gone. Performance pay is now used to fund the annual pay increments of all AL pilots. Anything left over is then distributed on a weight average basis as far as I know. Personally I would discount it completely from the equation and work on the basis that anything gained from it is a bonus. My own feeling is that it will be gone altogether in the next few years.

In addition to the above the company pays into a final salary pension scheme (for Dublin based pilots). The company contributes 21% of your gross salary (not incl sector or performance pay). YOU pay in 11%.

Other things to bear in mind are that the union and company recently agreed to push back a salary review that was due this year. My own feeling is that the union wishes to keep its powder dry and heading into a salary negotiation whilst the country is on its knees is not the best time to be asking for our salary cuts and inflationary increases back.

There are numerous online tax calculators that will give you net pay and tax and levy figures if your interested although until the T&Cs for the cadet scheme are published it might be all academic.

chewits

I can imagine a "cadet" will be lifting anymore than E30,000 coming out of training with a fATPL.

shamrock421

Railjon wrote: »

There was nothing in the Stage 2 application which would differentiate those who know about the principles of flight. As for the ME/IR, that's what the direct entry ads are for

I got called (2nds) and I just started my MEP training.
Most airlines that run cadetships nowadays have different classes of cadets.
Cathay, Etihad to name but a few have cadet classes for non-flyers taken say 14 months and then short 12 week cadetships for CPL/IR holders.

Anyways, aer lingus are just gonna take the lads that have the cash. As harsh as that sounds and unfair (I know:() that is the truth of it.

Railjon

ROG

Did you say you had a CPL in your app?

ROGFOR10

Railjon wrote: »

ROG

Did you say you had a CPL in your app?

No, but they asked for my hours.

Tenger

ROGFOR10 wrote: »

No, but they asked for my hours.

But wasn't it pointed out ealier in the thread that THIS cadet program was aimed at people who have no or minimal flying experience?

And as stated about, he has proven that he can pass the online assessment, therefore he is deserving of entry to the next stage. For all you know he may have the mental skills that are perfect for a commercial pilot but has just never expressed an interest in this area before. It will be a ruthless system of elimination throughout all stages of the selection.

jimjop

BigBirdie wrote: »

Well as fun as it is to have people say I probably don't deserve to have gotten this far, let me just say that the point of the cadet programme as I understand it is to learn how to be a pilot, not to already be one. If I have the ability to do this programme and if I get through then I deserve it as much as anybody else.

fair play to you on getting through, don't let bitter people take anything away from how you have got on so far and might do in the rest of the assessments. AL clearly have a reason why they value the results of the aptitude tests..they're clearly engineered to find specific strengths and abilities in how a person mind works and would be suitable for the job..by the end of the training they obviously believe your mind has the capabilities technically to have a better chance than those not chosen.( as a result of these tests) that is why you have been called in so they can get a feel for how you are as a person.

see you at the next stage good luck

XWB

Ahoy mateys!

I'm just in from the pub. I was having a chat with some of the lads.

2 assesment days down and hair is already coming out of the training department's heads.

HR's popularity has gotten lower it would seem!;)

Best of luck all those to come. Looks like the standard set was fairly low in the first 2!

Bearcat

I am truly and utterly disappointed with the (inside info) posts. A previous poster mentioned the thread has become toxic which I kind of agree with. I for one and I'm in the know believe some of the seasoned posters here are scaring the living jazuz out of potential candidates. Potential candidates don't need to know if there's a bun fight going on re flt ops and hr.....

Best of luck to all involved.

xflyer

They even make you sit the assessment regardless if you have over 5000 jet hours.

?Yes they do, and it's bit them in the face. Don't be bitter, there's no point. I once had ambitions to get into Aer Lingus. But it was a forlorn hope.

They have got it wrong, this particular cadet entry is a desperate attempt to redress that. But apparently they have learnt nothing.

Ryanair is the new flag carrier.

xflyer

Bearcat, it's a job. If you lose sight of that fact. You will be disillusioned quick enough. It's a job, not a dream. A job. Keep that in mind at all times.

Just a job. Not X factor, not master chef. A job. Not an ordinary job, but a job nonetheless. If you keep that in mind, you won't go far wrong.

XWB

Bearcat wrote: »

I am truly and utterly disappointed with the (inside info) posts. A previous poster mentioned the thread has become toxic which I kind of agree with. I for one and I'm in the know believe some of the seasoned posters here are scaring the living jazuz out of potential candidates. Potential candidates don't need to know if there's a bun fight going on re flt ops and hr.....

Best of luck to all involved.

Telling the truth of the situation I think you mean.

And if that scares you then there isnt much more to be told!

pclancy

I can only really hand out bans for personal insults or breaches of forum charter but if there was a button i could click to stop bitterness I would. Alll i'll say is that ANYONE has every right to apply for these jobs regardless of their background, even if their only involvement in aviation to date is making paper aeroplanes.

I agree this thread is somewhat toxic but I'm thinking people will use their own judgement as to what way to take the info that is posted here and i'll remind everyone that its public domain that can be read and used by anyone.

ROGFOR10

jimjop wrote: »

by the end of the training they obviously believe your mind has the capabilities technically to have a better chance than those not chosen.( as a result of these tests) that is why you have been called in so they can get a feel for how you are as a person.

What capabilities exactly are you on about?

So your telling us that a inanimate computer who evaluates the results of an anonymous person with little or no flying experience are "technically" more suited to be an airline pilot than those who already hold an array of modular licenses. ?

Im sorry but have people who already hold a PPL, CPL or even a Multi- IR not already proved they have the potential needed to be an airline pilot ?

jimjop

ROGFOR10 wrote: »

What capabilities exactly are you on about?

So your telling us that a inanimate computer who evaluates the results of an anonymous person with little or no flying experience are "technically" more suited to be an airline pilot than those who already hold an array of modular licenses. ?

Im sorry but have people who already hold a PPL, CPL or even a Multi- IR not already proved they have the potential needed to be an airline pilot ?

well the tests were there to test your brain's ability to work in different ways and AL must believe that the candidates for stage 3 have the potential to be better than those who scored lower in the tests(including those who have more flight experience to whatever level they achieved) In the end the cadet will do the full training needed to be suitable for the job so if he is more capable in their eyes(results of the aptitude tests) he has the capability to be a better pilot in the end. Why do you think someone they deem less capable should get a job just because he has more flight experience or a love for aviation? they are looking for the most suitable candidates not someone who loves flying the most..We are both entitle to our opinions so I respect yours as well and see your argument but its just how I personally feel about it. Why would you not want someone who has the better results in the tests if they are aimed at finding a certain level of aptitude they want their cadets to have?

eatmyshorts

Jesus lads....

I've seen less handbags being flung, or hair being pulled, in a fight outside the ladies jacks in Coppers.

pclancy

Ok guys (and probably girls) lets just move on if possible and focus back on the thread's topic- the AL cadet program. Will start handing out infractions for any more posts regarding peoples opinions of each other, enough is enough and i've got way better things to do.

antonov225

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Jesus lads....

I've seen less handbags being flung, or hair being pulled, in a fight outside the ladies jacks in Coppers.

hahahaha legend