AL Cadet programme

Railjon

Some of my friends have asked me what the selection process is to this cadetship and to be honest I'm not exactly sure as it's different from others that I've gone through/researched. This is what I've gathered from emails up to this point.

If successful, we have the (re)assessment, group exercises and interview with a HR and Flight Ops Rep at the moment. Then a more in-depth interview with chief pilot and someone else and then the 'job' offer?

In my experience usually there is the initial application, interview with an FTO rep along with aptitude tests and maths/physics exams. After this there is a company interview, and this is the case with the BA FPP. The only difference with Aer Lingus is not having an FTO selected yet - so does anyone know how the school will fit into the process in the grand scheme of things, or maybe the tests were 'approved' by the FTOs that are being considered?

XWB

Railjon wrote: »

Aer Lingus is not having an FTO selected yet - so does anyone know how the school will fit into the process in the grand scheme of things, or maybe the tests were 'approved' by the FTOs that are being considered?

If it is Jerez, Oxford, etc they will not care as long as they get the money and prestige.

It's really that simple!

antonov225

eoinmorris wrote: »

Suffice it to say that finance will be required.

Did they say anything to the effect that you'll need to provide your own loan security? Unfortunately I am not a homeowner. I can't imagine many others my age are either, and there is absolutely no way that I would use family assets. Could be me out if this is the case.

XWB

antonov225 wrote: »

Did they say anything to the effect that you'll need to provide your own loan security? Unfortunately I am not a homeowner. I can't imagine many others my age are either, and there is absolutely no way that I would use family assets. Could be me out if this is the case.

That seems to be what a lot of people have been asking. I asked a couple of people I know and it seems that you just need to be able to get the dosh which makes no sense because if you were able to get the dosh you would have gotten it and be in flightschool now....bit weird really....

I should wonder what they will do if NOBODY or only a hand full can get the cash....that isnt too far fetched a prospect

antonov225

Exactly. If I had the money to go integrated I'd have done that by now. I'd have thought that if you did have the money, but haven't gone to flight school, then you're probably not the type of character they're looking for i.e. genuinely committed. Yet you may be required to be in this circumstance to get on the cadetship.

Bit of an odd thought.

XWB

antonov225 wrote: »

Exactly. If I had the money to go integrated I'd have done that by now. I'd have thought that if you did have the money, but haven't gone to flight school, then you're probably not the type of character they're looking for i.e. genuinely committed. Yet you may be required to be in this circumstance to get on the cadetship.

Bit of an odd thought.

You've hit the nail on the head there. That is what almost every pilot/general aviation day tripper has said to me...if you can get the money and are what is required to be a cadet them you would be in flight school and not working or in college etc....it's a bit of a loop really!

It's all a bit strange. Wouldnt surprise me they havent even considered financial matters yet.

antonov225

hmm.

I'm certainly looking forward to the Q&A session. They're probably planning to be quizzing us for the most part but I'll definitely have many Q's for them!

shamrock421

antonov225 wrote: »

hmm.

I'm certainly looking forward to the Q&A session. They're probably planning to be quizzing us for the most part but I'll definitely have many Q's for them!

You pay (with your own money, however you have it or get it) 75K. Shamrock pay the other 25k to the school which you pay back through payroll deductions once you are an f/o.

richgeezer

IMO



did anyone get in that has zero hours???
If someone did get in with zero hours I think that is totally outragous...
Then EI spend time and effort and money with interviews and all that then cadet gets 15ft in the air on 1st flight and shtis themselves.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

On a previous post I was chuffed to hear that an applicant got to next stage with well over 200 hrs.
I would also feel the same with an applicant that got to next stage with only a couple of hours.
Simply shows interest and determination IMO:cool:

Tightwad

shamrock421 wrote: »

You pay (with your own money, however you have it or get it) 75K. Shamrock pay the other 25k to the school which you pay back through payroll deductions once you are an f/o.

Quite a confident statement, were you told this by EI. I have heard otherwise is all but I wouldn’t like to speculate. Correct me if i am wrong.

Regards TW

XWB

Tightwad wrote: »

Quite a confident statement, were you told this by EI. I have heard otherwise is all but I wouldn’t like to speculate. Correct me if i am wrong.

Regards TW

I've heard that you must get your amount off your own bat. I didnt hear an exact amount however. But 75 is a good ball park figure.

The truthis that you will need yoyr own security in the event of you dropping out on your own bat or just washing out...Aer Ligus cannot guarantee you in that case!

high ho

XWB wrote: »

I've heard that you must get your amount off your own bat. I didnt hear an exact amount however. But 75 is a good ball park figure.

The truthis that you will need yoyr own security in the event of you dropping out on your own bat or just washing out...Aer Ligus cannot guarantee you in that case!

well if they put something in place with a bank for you to walk in with your contract and get the money win minimal secrity, ie borrowing 5 times your shares like the credit union do, then and only then is this cadet scheme worth while running. Otherwise its another rich kids, wrong attitude scheme. EI dont win, the raw talent on offer gets sidelined and around and around we go in the circle yet again..

richgeezer

high ho wrote: »

well if they put something in place with a bank for you to walk in with your contract and get the money win minimal secrity, ie borrowing 5 times your shares like the credit union do, then and only then is this cadet scheme worth while running. Otherwise its another rich kids, wrong attitude scheme. EI dont win, the raw talent on offer gets sidelined and around and around we go in the circle yet again..

Exactly.
Read my previous posts.Ei cant loose here,but then again why should they?They are a business.For the last time troops.......There is no such thing as a free lunch in the aviation business........If you want it that much you will get there at your own expense....
I know most dont give a shti but when I was refused the last cadetship by in EI in 1999 or 2000.......i was borrowing off peter to pay paul to go to weston.......and when I heard some bloke state that I guy in his EI cadetship(that I applied for) decieded to pull out 75% through the coarse....."that he never wanted to be a pilot and only applied for the giggle and his dad or uncle was in EI maintenance"......

It made my blood churn.That could of been my position he took.


Look guys slog it out,borrow like Trump,study mega hard and in a decade you hopefully might control the noise of these babies(best clip I have ever seen yet)(wait for 2 mins+)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1NivHkeiJI&feature=related

high ho

richgeezer wrote: »

Exactly.
Read my previous posts.Ei cant loose here,but then again why should they?

EI can lose and will lose here if they cannot have the cadets that they choose to have, due to their lack of planning and understanding of our current economic climate. If EI end up having half of the final 20 drop out because they cannot secure a loan for themselves, then those 10 and EI have lost out due to incompetence. My guess is that they will have a loan guarantee scheme of sort for the successful few, otherwise,what's the point!!

XWB

high ho wrote: »

If EI end up having half of the final 20 drop out because they cannot secure a loan for themselves, then those 10 and EI have lost out due to incompetence. My guess is that they will have a loan guarantee scheme of sort for the successful few, otherwise,what's the point!!

Incompetence? This is HR we're talking about though....I was once paid 6 million euro for 11 hours flying.....lucky I'm so honest!;)

Your last point on a loan guarantee is an avenue they explored and it was the route most expected would be taken. However I think I stated before that they cannot bear that liability on their books(20 x 100,000 = 2,000,000). Aer Lingus doesnt have the fluid assets available to cover that! Some number cruncher pointed this out shortly after the 1st application stage, so they have been somewhat blindsided by this issue. Everything in Aer Lingus at the moment is financial and this seems to be no different. The way banks work in these matters is simple. If Aer Lingus put in place a loan guarantee and one night in Jerez you disappear into the mist without a word because you cannot cut it and want out, Aer Lingus are liable for your 100k and the bank will come after them not you because they guarenteed it and they are easier to find and get money out of than you! Same goes for property against the loan. If mammy and daddy's house is up against the loan and you wash out, mammy and daddy are on the street!(or they loose ownership anyhow that a complicated government law now I think). In any case you're in the ****s!

The over-riding sense amonst those close to Aer Lingus and in the general "experianced core" is that Aer Lingus have botched the organisation of this whole affair. They jumped in with 2 feet before they had 100% of the details finalised and are now trying to get it all together "on the fly".

I have no doubt that finances will be a big haircut here, and to be honest if that is that is the case it defeats the purpose in the 1st place.

theflanman

Hi everybody first time poster here.
I have my stage 3 interview this week in the radisson, im excited but also nervous. i have 3 flying hours done with an instructor and loved every minute so at least i know i wont panic if i get in the air at flight school. Realy feel for the lads with 100s of flying hours that didnt get true realy harsh imo.
What im most worried about is getting quizzed on aircraft and flight controls and the likes. does anyone have similar worries?? im preparing best i can but theres still alot i dont know. i feel i should be able to cope with anything else they throw at me.
any answers would be realy helpful. and i do appreciate that yee cant give too much away for obvious reasons. cheers:)

happy_head

theflanman wrote: »

Hi everybody first time poster here.
I have my stage 3 interview this week in the radisson, im excited but also nervous. i have 3 flying hours done with an instructor and loved every minute so at least i know i wont panic if i get in the air at flight school. Realy feel for the lads with 100s of flying hours that didnt get true realy harsh imo.
What im most worried about is getting quizzed on aircraft and flight controls and the likes. does anyone have similar worries?? im preparing best i can but theres still alot i dont know. i feel i should be able to cope with anything else they throw at me.
any answers would be realy helpful. and i do appreciate that yee cant give too much away for obvious reasons. cheers:)

I wouldnt worry too much, i dont think they will expect you to know everything with just 3 hours flying. Id say if you can explain a bit on what each flight controls (ailerons, rudder, elevator etc) do you'll be ok. If EI wanted someone that could give them the ins and outs of everthing about aircrafts they would have picked more people with more flying hours!

On a separate note, i was pretty pissed off that i didnt get accepted as i thought i did really well in the assessment, but i have found out that many applicants fell down on the personality test. Its not something you can practice for, or something you can improve on because its just asking questions about yourself, no right or wrong answer.

XWB

happy_head wrote: »

i have found out that many applicants fell down on the personality test. Its not something you can practice for, or something you can improve on because its just asking questions about yourself, no right or wrong answer.

Apperantly if you score well on them you have a personality disorder!:D. People with mental illness often score highly on those tests as it tests consistency of answer and only people who are psycotic can do that well enough!

That was a joke back in the day! Someone read it in a book.

IMO if people are being discounted because of a test they did that has questionably relevence to anything in life, nevermind flying...someone is in the cross-hairs for the kick up the hole in HR!

dubberdo

XWB wrote: »

Apperantly if you score well on them you have a personality disorder!:D. People with mental illness often score highly on those tests as it tests consistency of answer and only people who are psycotic can do that well enough!

That was a joke back in the day! Someone read it in a book.

IMO if people are being discounted because of a test they did that has questionably relevence to anything in life, nevermind flying...someone is in the cross-hairs for the kick up the hole in HR!

I don't mean to get into an arguement with you but when you start going down the road of barstool talk I tune out... Part of me thinks you may be disgruntled that you don't get to choose who gets through. You did say your nephew was turned down afterall. For all we know H.R. may be doing a great job of making it a fair chance for all. I truely hope so because I know nobody in there. They do have to conduct some sort of testing to get the candidates. It could be argued how but if it's a proven way then who is some ex-pilot(you) or aspiring pilot(me) to say it should be done otherwise? We'll wait and see...

Tenger

XWB wrote: »

........However I think I stated before that they cannot bear that liability on their books(20 x 100,000 = 2,000,000). Aer Lingus doesnt have the fluid assets available to cover that! ......

In the H1 2011 results they have net cash of E315M (Gross cash is over E900M, but much of this is earmarked for lease payments) I realise that the airline's accountants may not want to lose that E2M investment, but it's taking a relatively small risk to get access to a wider pool of possible cadets.

kiwster

Tenger wrote: »

XWB wrote: »

........However I think I stated before that they cannot bear that liability on their books(20 x 100,000 = 2,000,000). Aer Lingus doesnt have the fluid assets available to cover that! ......

In the H1 2011 results they have net cash of E315M (Gross cash is over E900M, but much of this is earmarked for lease payments) I realise that the airline's accountants may not want to lose that E2M investment, but it's taking a relatively small risk to get access to a wider pool of possible cadets.

To me, 2 million seems like a relatively small amount. When you consider how much a major part on an engine would cost to get replaced or even what the daily fuel bill is, 2 million euro doesn't seem like much at all. Also, the chances of everyone on the cadetship dropping out are quite small too. If one or two do drop out then you're looking at a cost of 200k, which is equivalent to 4 or 5 transatlantic flights

XWB

dubberdo wrote: »

I don't mean to get into an arguement with you but when you start going down the road of barstool talk I tune out... Part of me thinks you may be disgruntled that you don't get to choose who gets through. You did say your nephew was turned down afterall. For all we know H.R. may be doing a great job of making it a fair chance for all. I truely hope so because I know nobody in there. They do have to conduct some sort of testing to get the candidates. It could be argued how but if it's a proven way then who is some ex-pilot(you) or aspiring pilot(me) to say it should be done otherwise? We'll wait and see...

Well it depends who is on the other barstool now doesnt it.

My nephew being rejected is irrelevant as I was saying this before anyone was rejected!

In the H1 2011 results they have net cash of E315M (Gross cash is over E900M, but much of this is earmarked for lease payments) I realise that the airline's accountants may not want to lose that E2M investment, but it's taking a relatively small risk to get access to a wider pool of possible cadets

Anyone who runs a business will know that you may have a profit of 200k or more, but not have 2 pennies to rub together and live in a shack, because you owe banks, suppliers, employees and other crediters millions and your cost of running the non profitable areas of your company in a changing market bite too. You could have a 300 million profit but not actually have 2 million that you can get free from other avenues of spending. You may have it, but may not be able to take it out of the business to hold in your hand because it's working!
For example Aer Lingus may need a pool of 100 million in order to keep a loan going or keep a certain interest rate or draw down new funds from a bank for whatever they need it for...it is possible that they could not afford to take a 10er, nevermind 2 million out, becuse they need X amount on the books to keep investor confidence or keep in agreed borrowing limits and the 2 million just cannot be found!

I'm not suggesting all 20 would drop out...but 2,000,000 extra of liability on the books may well be bigger than it seems. At shareholder meeting debt limits are agreed and that 2 million may exceed them and so may not be legal under the company's own rules!
Aer Lingus pay bills for fuel etc etc but they are all streamlined to be cost effective and for those who know anything about wings...a small layer of frost can wreck your airflow and cause you to stall...and the same principle applies to Aer Lingus's finances!

Tenger

That why I quoted the NET cash figure. On paper EI have over E900M cash reserves, however this is the gross figure. E600M of this is reserved for fuel/leasing/loan repayments.

The figure of E315M is the actual cash in hand available to EI as quoted in their most recent financial statement. So relatively speaking 2 million is not a huge risk. (Latest results forecast a "marginal" profit for 2011, not sure if marginal is 1,5,10 or even 20M!)


I'm not claiming they are loaded but by their own published figures they are coping with the current economic woes (however, lets see how the upcoming budget affects aviation)

At present the share value of approx 0.63 values EI at little under E400M, yet they still have double this in gross cash.


Of course who knows how the mgmt/accountants in EI decide these things, some of them may well think that a cadet program is the height of folly.

shamrock421

Some people need to read previous posts before posting :eek:

Question was asked at the assesment the last day.
€75,000 to be paid to the FTO by the student pilot.
AL pay the last couple installment's (so when you are near end of IR/MCC training) so they top the FTO students account up with the end €25,000 needed approx. Something along those lines anyhow.
You pay back that €25K through payroll deductions (along with your A320 Type Rating Course) once you are an "on-the-line" F/O.

Its up to you how you get the €75k!
"Your parents should be able help you secure such amount". Was great advice for all the budding 18yr old's there with mammy waiting outside the hotel in the car (In there mercs) :pac:

sdanseo

shamrock421 wrote: »

Some people need to read previous posts before posting :eek:

Question was asked at the assesment the last day.
€75,000 to be paid to the FTO by the student pilot.
AL pay the last couple installment's (so when you are near end of IR/MCC training) so they top the FTO students account up with the end €25,000 needed approx. Something along those lines anyhow.
You pay back that €25K through payroll deductions (along with your A320 Type Rating Course) once you are an "on-the-line" F/O.

Its up to you how you get the €75k!
"Your parents should be able help you secure such amount". Was great advice for all the budding 18yr old's there with mammy waiting outside the hotel in the car (In there mercs) :pac:

Name the person who told you all this? We were told a much different figure.

handsomecake

sdeire wrote: »

Name the person who told you all this? We were told a much different figure.

what figures were you quoted

thecornflake

sdeire wrote: »

Name the person who told you all this? We were told a much different figure.

Yeah, I heard my mate quote 50% funded by AL.

XWB

Tenger wrote: »

That why I quoted the NET cash figure. On paper EI have over E900M cash reserves, however this is the gross figure. E600M of this is reserved for fuel/leasing/loan repayments.

The figure of E315M is the actual cash in hand available to EI as quoted in their most recent financial statement. So relatively speaking 2 million is not a huge risk. (Latest results forecast a "marginal" profit for 2011, not sure if marginal is 1,5,10 or even 20M!)


I'm not claiming they are loaded but by their own published figures they are coping with the current economic woes (however, lets see how the upcoming budget affects aviation)

At present the share value of approx 0.63 values EI at little under E400M, yet they still have double this in gross cash.


Of course who knows how the mgmt/accountants in EI decide these things, some of them may well think that a cadet program is the height of folly.

Yes that is all great but all the money Aer Lingus has is being used within the company to some purpose!
A profit of 300 million may well be what Aer Lingus must post to meet requirements from shareholders, crediters etc. A profit of 298 million may well fall short of that and breach pre-agreed financial caps or agreements.

Aer Lingus has a lot of debt to service at present and it is possible that a small cog in the machine such as 2 million being taken out would cause the whole machine to grind to a halt!
The crux of the matter is what goes on the balance sheet and shows up in the accounts. No matter how small a figure it is Aer Lingus may not be able to present an account that is short of a certain profit margin and the way things are Aer Lingus has just about managed to cost cut enough to slip in under that debt/profit margin.
What I was told is that basically the financiers of Aer Lingus would not sanction any hiring of their debt/liability margin and so that was a shot through the balloon.

XWB

thecornflake wrote: »

Yeah, I heard my mate quote 50% funded by AL.

And pigs will fly. If Aer Lingus were going to fund 50k out of their pocket they would have sent everyone to NFC and saved some cash for the cadet. 25% is the very most they would stretch to.

thecornflake

XWB wrote: »

And pigs will fly. If Aer Lingus were going to fund 50k out of their pocket they would have sent everyone to NFC and saved some cash for the cadet. 25% is the very most they would stretch to.

Captain stood before the ~20 applicants there and said 50/50.

Proof for the school that you have the ~50,000 would be needed upfront however the payments should be made periodically throughout the course.

Personally i don't think they even know how it'll be going down in the end.