AL Cadet programme

happy_head

Ah its good to see XWB hasnt given up on his bullsh1t scaremongoring!! Had he ever had first hand information??? Its always his brother in law, his brother, his nephew, a neighbour around the corner, an air hostess, a guy in finance dept of EI, a guy in training dept of EI.

Has he been right in any of his posts?? Remember he said "a second batch of emails will be sent on monday guys, so dont worry", i hope people are not still waiting for that monday.

Guessing about salaries and training costs!

XWB will you please stop your scaremongoring and guesswork, its helping nobody!

And im quite aware of the abuse im gonna get of his groupies now, but i couldnt hold it in any longer!!! :eek:

xflyer

Happy head, keep the faith. Live the dream. You go for it boy.

Meanwhile back in the real world...............

happy_head

Haha xflyer, real mature! Im sure the alan and the boys in weston will be so proud of you

Infact i wasnt successful at getting through to the group assessment day, so ill have to go another way about landing that "dream job". But why should someone with no good hard info be scaremongoring people who are still in with a chance. Yes, I, as well as most people still in the race know that even if successful, it will be a tough decision to make, its not one to be taken lightly and anyone who thinks it is needs to get back to "reality".

shamrock421

happy_head wrote: »

Ah its good to see XWB hasnt given up on his bullsh1t scaremongoring!! Had he ever had first hand information??? Its always his brother in law, his brother, his nephew, a neighbour around the corner, an air hostess, a guy in finance dept of EI, a guy in training dept of EI.

Has he been right in any of his posts?? Remember he said "a second batch of emails will be sent on monday guys, so dont worry", i hope people are not still waiting for that monday.

Guessing about salaries and training costs!

XWB will you please stop your scaremongoring and guesswork, its helping nobody!

And im quite aware of the abuse im gonna get of his groupies now, but i couldnt hold it in any longer!!! :eek:

TIT.

happy_head

shamrock421 wrote: »

TIT.

Aww look at the little groupie

pclancy

Boys. Grow up or post elsewhere

Next off topic post = ban

XWB

happy_head wrote: »

Ah its good to see XWB hasnt given up on his bullsh1t scaremongoring!! Had he ever had first hand information??? Its always his brother in law, his brother, his nephew, a neighbour around the corner, an air hostess, a guy in finance dept of EI, a guy in training dept of EI.

Has he been right in any of his posts?? Remember he said "a second batch of emails will be sent on monday guys, so dont worry", i hope people are not still waiting for that monday.

Guessing about salaries and training costs!

XWB will you please stop your scaremongoring and guesswork, its helping nobody!

And im quite aware of the abuse im gonna get of his groupies now, but i couldnt hold it in any longer!!! :eek:

Actually I guessed they may send more. And pointed out that they had gone back over the maybe pile before in the past. Never gave cast iron guarantees.

A lot of the people here are not fully prepared for reality and by trying to give them a slap back into it I am doing them a favour.
Bear in mind I am being polite compared to the axe weilding maniacs in Training and Standards...who will take people apart at one on one interviews if they come out with the ideal world rubbish some people post here.

You dont have to listen to what I say or take it seriously if that is your choice...but all I ask is that you remember it for when you're bathed in sweat at interview....and they're taking peices out of you for being a naive little boy or girl.

And just to point out...all info on here is second hand...but to be honest I trust my sources...and I get nothing out of telling you what they say. Experianced pilots all know how this whole thing is going to turn out....it's only the dreamers that still hold onto the romantic view. Even applicants who have some industry experiance seem to know how it is...the people who insist otherwise show they green horns clearly...and you may want to wear a hat in that case if you're still in the mix.

diego_b

Hi to one and all, just a thank you to everyone who participated in this thread so far, over the last few weeks and months I've been reading every post here and pulling out what I felt (good and the bad) was most relevant to my own scenario. I recently completed the group assessment and was happy with how things went on the day.

A few things that were confirmed in the Q&A session that I attended.
1. The training location will definitely be outside of Ireland, I know there's a lot of speculation by posters here as to where but for me it was relevant to have this confirmed by a member of Aer Lingus and not just from speculation.
2. Cadets will be required to provide 50 percent of the training costs via their own means, Aer Lingus will stump up the other 50 percent which will then be bonded to the cadet. When asked, they could not confirm how long the bond would be for but they expect the cadets to be people who want a long term career with Aer Lingus and future captains as the Captain from flight ops said they do not hire direct entry Captains.
3. The next stage after the group assessment will be interviews, beginning on the 8th of November I think was the date mentioned by the HR person. Candidates can expect to know by the end of October one way or another if their application proceed further. Also, even though they will be cutting down the numbers significantly at this point they intend to interview everyone who is a strong candidate.
4. Finally, pretty sure it has been confirmed here already but there are 20 positions available that they hope to fill.

The information I post above comes from the Q&A session at my group assessment and I'm taking it at face value as it was given to my group. Good luck to all applicants.

el tel

Was the group assessment the list of 20 items affair, the items requiring arrangement in order of importance/priority in a given sitaution?

Or was it something more useful, like removing a bra with one hand, in the dark?

BTW there is no "A" in 'experienced'.

diego_b

I'm not going to say much in detail about the assessments here as they are still ongoing through to the 19th of October and to be fair to everyone involved I should not pass on information about the specific content or tasks to be completed.
There was three parts to the day, firstly a group assessment, second up was an individual task. We finished up with a Q&A session with a representative from HR and a captain from flight ops.

As for the usefulness of the task, yes I could certainly see value in what they had us doing.
And as for bras in the dark, easy peasy.......easier and quicker opening them with one hand than two hands I think :-)

diego_b

Okay my understanding was that Aer Lingus provide 50 percent of the costs upfront with the cadet providing the other 50 percent through their own means.....the people I spoke to after the Q&A seemed to think this as well. The cadet would then pay back Aer Lingus their 50 percent through a bond scheme once they complete the program, I would like to be wrong on this!

AirMechMan

Kapellmeister wrote: »

I also do not understand why everyone must be so negative to those who have been successful

K.

It's the airline industry.....

For those who got it, you have a great life ahead, so f*ck the jealous people!

Those with the negative comments are trying to play down the achievement of those who got it, it makes them feel just a little bit better about themselves :P

No.username

diego_b wrote: »

Okay my understanding was that Aer Lingus provide 50 percent of the costs upfront with the cadet providing the other 50 percent through their own means.....the people I spoke to after the Q&A seemed to think this as well. The cadet would then pay back Aer Lingus their 50 percent through a bond scheme once they complete the program, I would like to be wrong on this!

I would like you to be wrong also

The bond question came up at the session i was at as well. The answer confused a couple of us, without going into too much detail because im not sure Aer Lingus want details public yet, it seems as though fishtank's theory may be correct. EI said that they were not fond of bonds and it shouldnt matter anyway because they're looking for future captains that will see out the rest of their working life with them.

Again though, that is just what our group took from his answer, as Diego said, his group took it up differently. So this is not a definate.

No.username

fishtank101 wrote: »

I dont want to be one of these know it alls

Theres enough of them here already IMO.

XWB

No.username wrote: »

EI said that they were not fond of bonds and it shouldnt matter anyway because they're looking for future captains that will see out the rest of their working life with them.

Sorry this is Aer Lingus we're talking about isnt it??

Lads given the way they've been burned in the past they will have you bonded for a set space of time. They always say they're hiring for future captains...and they still get burned by a few. When I got in in the 70s we asked about the bond and they said that they didnt know the details of how it would work but that we shudnt worry...and we were almost "nailed to the control column" so to speak with the bond conditions. And those were the days when you werent expected to be going anywhere in the future...bail jumpers were a lot less common in those days......you'll be bonded...I suspect they just dont want to scare people off with the mention of commitments etc. But you'll be bonded for atleast 5 years.

guerito

XWB wrote: »

Sorry this is Aer Lingus we're talking about isnt it??

Lads given the way they've been burned in the past they will have you bonded for a set space of time. They always say they're hiring for future captains...and they still get burned by a few. When I got in in the 70s we asked about the bond and they said that they didnt know the details of how it would work but that we shudnt worry...and we were almost "nailed to the control column" so to speak with the bond conditions. And those were the days when you werent expected to be going anywhere in the future...bail jumpers were a lot less common in those days......you'll be bonded...I suspect they just dont want to scare people off with the mention of commitments etc. But you'll be bonded for atleast 5 years.

What we heard was that there would be no bond, which was very surprising. We were also told that they wanted to avoid a DE hire down the line. Not sure how they can guarantee not having to hire pilots direct without guaranteeing that their cadets will still be there, so I'd expect a bond of some description.

XWB

guerito wrote: »

What we heard was that there would be no bond, which was very surprising. We were also told that they wanted to avoid a DE hire down the line. Not sure how they can guarantee not having to hire pilots direct without guaranteeing that their cadets will still be there, so I'd expect a bond of some description.

Generally they will always take in DE guys but just may not run campaigns. They took in a few easyjet Irish a few months back who were under the radar...they also have recently taken in Ryanair, Arran and Cityjet pilots without actually putting an ad up.

If they really are looking to just take in cadets to satisfy staffing needs I would be surprised however....either they think they can get the numbers to meet demand through cadetships or they're just saying that.

If that is true the future looks sandy for a lot of young Irish pilots....though to be honest...they'll be better off money and terms wise! Still I'd find it hard to believe they wont run DE campaigns..i mean they need some degree of experiance and a decent flow of pilots that cadetships just cannot satisfy....as Alan Hanson once said..."You wont win anything with kids". Not taking in DE guys would lead to an experiance void for a few years followed by a serious traffic jam for the LHS as all your cadets came of seniority at once.

Oh and on the bonding issue...if Aer Lingus dont bond their cadets I should imagine current FOs may well be having a chat with IALPA about having to pay their's for TR...that could get sticky. Also if they are going to run this for 5 years as was suggested before then..100 cadets at 50k a pop?..with no guarantee they wont leg it when Emirates flash the treasure chest?....high risk stuff for an airline that isnt exactly flush at the moment...

Tightwad

In the presentation I witnessed it was stated that Aer Lingus are in a position to forecast a need for pilots which is, of course, why the cadet programme has been launched. It was said the yearly intake of cadets will be topped up by DE depending on demand at that given point in time. The point was made that when airlines can forecast a need, ie 2013, they generally launch a cadet programme to more or less guarantee/secure a set flow of new pilots instead of relying solely on Direct Entry (who, as silly as it may sound at the moment, may not be available) but still hire DE as a margin of lee way depending on demand.

diego_b

Just to clarify, when I mentioned direct entry hiring in my posts and what the captain from flights ops told us is that it is Aer Lingus's policy to appoint captains from within the existing ranks and not hire captains as direct entry. They of course may and surely do hire direct entry pilots who of course may become captains in time but it's not the same thing as hiring direct entry captains so that should be noted here.

Stovepipe

Hi all,
EI have taken in 44 DEs of late. I don't know the time frame but it's always wise for any potential DE to stick in a CV just the same. Have they decided which school they are going to use?

regards
Stovepipe

Tightwad

Stovepipe wrote: »

Hi all,
Have they decided which school they are going to use?

regards
Stovepipe

We were told "the FTO has yet to be decided but expect to be trained abroad."

babar350

sdeire wrote: »

The way it's structured means there is a bit of hanging around waiting for everyone to finish - the individual assessments are done one at a time by a captain and there were only three captains there when I did mine.

I'd ask the first person you meet who takes your name at the start if you could do your individual assessment first. Explain that you have a flight at 18.10. You will probably have to miss the Questions/Answers section at the end as that didn't finish until about 17.15hrs when I was there - and it will take 10-15 mins at least to walk to T2.

Hey Sdeire, you were right , I was out of time to stay for the Q/A. However they have been very comprehensive as they gave me a little presentation for the cadet scheme before I leave for my flight.

happy_head

babar350 wrote: »

Hey Sdeire, you were right , I was out of time to stay for the Q/A. However they have been very comprehensive as they gave me a little presentation for the cadet scheme before I leave for my flight.

Thats good to hear you made your flight babar. When you say they gave you a little presntation, what do you mean? Like a dvd or powerpoint presentation or a brochure or what?

babar350

By little presentation I meant about financial, school, and general thing about the frozen ATPL course. But everything they told me are on this thread so far.

Ryan J

Hi, can anyone tell me in what order the assessment day is run.

Thanks

shamrock421

I asked my local bank of Ireland branch, and the AIB and credit union yesterday what would be the chances of me getting €50,000 if I am selected onto the cadetship. Explained the whole story to the loan officers, and they all just shook there heads and showed me the door basicaly

Has anyone else tested there local banks just to see what the story is?
No harm to find out, just incase you are selected.

I even mentioned the letter aerlingus will provide saying id have a job blah blah and the fact they where sponsoring the other €50,000.

Railjon

Can anyone recall when the slots were from and to? I think it was Mondays and Tuesdays, two sessions per day between and including 19th Sep and 18th Oct. If this is correct, and assuming there are 20 at each session, that would make 400 people attending the teamwork stage.

happy_head

Railjon wrote: »

Can anyone recall when the slots were from and to? I think it was Mondays and Tuesdays, two sessions per day between and including 19th Sep and 18th Oct. If this is correct, and assuming there are 20 at each session, that would make 400 people attending the teamwork stage.

I think i recall somebody, earlier in this thread, calculating that there were 15 sessions in total meaning 300 people through.

dubberdo

shamrock421 wrote: »

I asked my local bank of Ireland branch, and the AIB and credit union yesterday what would be the chances of me getting €50,000 if I am selected onto the cadetship. Explained the whole story to the loan officers, and they all just shook there heads and showed me the door basicaly

Has anyone else tested there local banks just to see what the story is?
No harm to find out, just incase you are selected.

I even mentioned the letter aerlingus will provide saying id have a job blah blah and the fact they where sponsoring the other €50,000.

Did you offer security as part of the deal? I think you'll need an asset that can be repossessed easily (such as a second home) in case of default or someone very liquid behind you because if you do default and it's the family home you've secured the debt with they won't get an order for repossession very easily it seems these days. Maybe that could be an issue for those trying to get finance?

XWB

dubberdo wrote: »

Did you offer security as part of the deal? I think you'll need an asset that can be repossessed easily (such as a second home) in case of default or someone very liquid behind you because if you do default and it's the family home you've secured the debt with they won't get an order for repossession very easily it seems these days. Maybe that could be an issue for those trying to get finance?

The Crux of this whole banking crisis is the fact that banks just do not have the dosh to be rolling students(because to them that's the boat you are in) with "student securities". Property in Ireland isnt really worth much to them as nobody truely knows how the price of property will trend in the next couple of years.
In the back of their heads they also have the fear of Italian bails-outs, Spanish bail-outs, and of course Greece's economy going totally down the ****epipe sooner or later. A lot of people's 2nd property aswell will be in Portugal or Italy or Spain or Greece, and that would be a non-runner. The world of finance is very much walking a tight-rope at the moment and I the distinct impression being given is that ANYONE who wants cash for a new kitchen, cadetship or a bottle of TK red lemonade is more or less pissing against the wind. The piller of pilot training is the property secured loan, but property here is no longer secure...and more over the banking sector is less secure. Bar those who just have 50k in their back pocket(who if they have that sort of money would most likely already be training), Aer Lingus may well meet a wall in actually getting people who present the money. A lot of the core aspects of this cadetship seem flawed...the lack of a concrete call on the FTO is one...and finance is another. I would guess that anyone who has the cash in their account would be somewhere along the self trained road already...and if they have the cash and are not..yet profess they hunger to be a pilot...the bull****ometer should be doing 90 at Shamrock HQ...