AL Cadet programme

ECHO INDIA

Has anyone considered that there's more to this than the 50k alone? Cost of living, for example. 18 months without income, living abroad. Possible that board may be included in the 50k, but since the FTO has not been determined I doubt AL have commented on exact costs included in the 50k. Has anyone asked that question?

dubberdo

ECHO INDIA wrote: »

Has anyone considered that there's more to this than the 50k alone? Cost of living, for example. 18 months without income, living abroad. Possible that board may be included in the 50k, but since the FTO has not been determined I doubt AL have commented on exact costs included in the 50k. Has anyone asked that question?

I'd imagine, having looked at the FTE website, that the sort of money EI are talking about would include accom. and 3 meals a day. What would be wiser to consider is that you'd probably need another 3/4 grand at the end to get you started with accom. and a car when you start working...

ECHO INDIA

I think your 3 to 4 grand is on the shy side. Even if meals and accommodation are included, there's more. Despite your best beliefs that you can get by on the very bare essentials for a little more than a year, you're doing yourself no favors adding that extra stress. A good estimate would be based on what you just spent your money on over the last year +. Clothing, food beyond 3 meals a day, toiletries, study supplies, a pc, phone, flights home (even if you don't plan on it, how about in case of emergency?), bus/taxis etc., 4 to 6 months fending for yourself back in Eire after fATPL (if it's just that ... Could be longer) ... and, of course, who is to say you won't need a few extra hours training here or there that is not covered in the 100k? .... AND to those considering loans - how about those first 18 months of repayments?
Not, at all, scaremongering - nobody could be more excited than I at this opportunity!

XWB

dubberdo wrote: »

I'd imagine, having looked at the FTE website, that the sort of money EI are talking about would include accom. and 3 meals a day. What would be wiser to consider is that you'd probably need another 3/4 grand at the end to get you started with accom. and a car when you start working...

Correct me if I'm wrong but most if not all FTOs make you feed yourself, as co-ordinating lunch when people may be up, down or in and around is very hard and time and effort consuming. When I was in Oxford we fed ourselves(not very well might I add). Infact now that I think of it I recall an FO telling me about trying to feed himself out of the local supermarket in Jerez...so...maybe they do feed you...but maybe not.

Echo India is looking at this from a smart point of view. It is rare if not unheard of for a pilot in traning to do everything in minimum hours. EVERYONE hits a wall somewhere or has something that just will not compute. You may well end up having extra hours to fork out on. Add in trips to see family if you miss the wife and kids or that pile of washing needs to get to mammy asap...Drs bill for the sniffles...drink money if needed and any other issues that crop up and you could have a sizable amount of money needed.
On the repayments front...well here's where it gets a little tricky. Most banks in the Celtic Tiger who rolled a pilot would agree to start your repayments when you started working...that was their investment in you. However that all changed when things went sour. Now you must pay your loan while in Jerez and earning nothing, and if you dont have an income of any kind well...what do you think the bank will say? They cannot loan you money if your repaymenst push you under a certain income limit, under new protection laws. Given the most recent figures I have heard quoted by young men and ladies I know trying to get loans your repayments. would be about 600-1000 a month depending on your circumstances. That would spread anyone a little thin at the moment.
I stated before in this thread that people with families would have to have a good long look at this before jumping in. I also stated that piloting on this island is a small world and let me tell you I know many selfish idiots who have plunged their family into poverty just to chase their goal, only to have the money dry up and their house and car taken by the bank.

Casting my own opinion over this, I think it is true to say that not many people will be able to get 50k out of a bank here(or indeed anybody in the country would be turned down), and that has been obvious to most round here for few months now. The fact Aer Lingus are overlooking this is in my opinion stupid and naive on their part. It raises the very clear question of what exactly they are trying to do here...it's all getting a bit blurry and off track now. I think we can all see now how this may pan out...

So the big question now......what happens in the very possible scenario of nobody..or only a handful(and a toddler's at that) getting the money?

dubberdo

http://www.ftejerez.com/courses/integrated/atpl.php

Take from that what you will...

I think you may be surprised by the amount of retired savers that may just be willing to support their child in this process (could be a very worthwhile exercise if you have him/her without a job at the moment and a bit of spare cash)... Ireland has one the highest rates of savings in the world. I think it'll be a game of wait and see...

As for health expenses... Get the European Health Card. That'd cover you for any public doctor in Europe...

XWB

dubberdo wrote: »

http://www.ftejerez.com/courses/integrated/atpl.php

Take from that what you will...

I think you may be surprised by the amount of retired savers that may just be willing to support their child in this process (could be a very worthwhile exercise if you have him/her without a job at the moment and a bit of spare cash)... Ireland has one the highest rates of savings in the world. I think it'll be a game of wait and see......

As for health expenses... Get the European Health Card. That'd cover you for any public doctor in Europe...

I dont believe anything I hear from these FTOs anymore!:rolleyes:

Yes retired savers may well invest in their kids..however...the question would have to be asked.."why if they profess to always dreaming of being a pilot(as they will), did they not get these savings and go for it earlier?"

That question will be asked by the bulldogs in T&S in the next stage.....and I know because I used to be one.:D

Contrails

XWB wrote: »

dubberdo wrote: »

http://www.ftejerez.com/courses/integrated/atpl.php

I dont believe anything I hear from these FTOs anymore!:rolleyes:

Yes retired savers may well invest in their kids..however...the question would have to be asked.."why if they profess to always dreaming of being a pilot(as they will), did they not get these savings and go for it earlier?"

That question will be asked by the bulldogs in T&S in the next stage.....and I know because I used to be one.:D

Depends who you ask though,

- Im only 20, couldnt do it much earlier
- wanted to do the sensible thing and keep my parents out of it and pay as much as i could myself, keeping away from pointless debt.
- already DID gain a ppl with my own dosh at 19
- studying for atpls still with my own money
- however upon hearing about this great opportunity my parents are more than happy to help me fund my training with for Aer Lingus and consider it a sound investment.

Not that difficult a question, if you have a decent answer.

xflyer

Echo Delta, you forgot one vital thing, beer! Or wine if it's in Jerez. Have to budget for that.

Looking at the FTE prospectus it does look value for money compared to some. If I was starting again it would be up there on my shortlist. I visited it once and was impressed. But to add to the €83,000 you would have to budget for beer obviously and all the other stuff that goes with life.

But of course getting the money up front is an issue.

Contrails would have the right answer to XWB's question but others might struggle. You come across it quite often when people find out you're a pilot, (or I tell them at a party). I'd love to do that but.....insert relevent excuse here.... Interviewers are wise to that because they know the average pilot never wanted to do anything else and even if it was out of reach there would be some attempt to hang around aircraft or get flying in some form or other. If you were a car mechanic bored with the job and saw the ad saying: 'I fancy some of that'. Your committment might be challenged and indeed there's a question as to whether you stay a pilot once the job doesn't turn out like cliche glamourous career.

Of course it works the other way around too, just because you devoted your whole life to it and made all kinds of sacrifices and committments doesn't mean you'll get anywhere. I quit a safe job to renew my licences, after I got married with a young baby and the usual mortgage, car etc. Ok not as tough as starting from scratch but still quite a gamble. It counts for nothing though. Although in this case it paid off.

But that's life.

XWB

Contrails wrote: »

XWB wrote: »

Depends who you ask though,

- Im only 20, couldnt do it much earlier
- wanted to do the sensible thing and keep my parents out of it and pay as much as i could myself, keeping away from pointless debt.
- already DID gain a ppl with my own dosh at 19
- studying for atpls still with my own money
- however upon hearing about this great opportunity my parents are more than happy to help me fund my training with for Aer Lingus and consider it a sound investment.

Not that difficult a question, if you have a decent answer.

I would then probe out(without outwardly saying it) that you are looking for the easy option in and are not willing to take a leap of faith for your dream.;) Some of the guys will really grill you like that just to see how your roll with the punches.

You are kind of outside of what I am saying. My point was aimed for so toward those who are late 20s - 30s who have the dosh in their account and if they hunger so badly could have done it earlier, but are only now putting it in...that would most likely end up in them getting a fair beating at interview.

If you really want to do it and are not in training at the moment they will expect you to need a bankloan...and that finance is your issue.

Railjon

XWB wrote: »

I would then probe out(without outwardly saying it) that you are looking for the easy option in and are not willing to take a leap of faith for your dream.;)

"50,000 euros begs to differ."

*slams money-laden briefcase on table*

BOOM!

XWB

Railjon wrote: »

"50,000 euros begs to differ."

*slams money-laden briefcase on table*

BOOM!

and what about the 50k for the course?...where would you get that?;)...that's assuming you get one of the cheaper guys...rates have gone up since the paycuts I'm afraid!:D

Railjon

Ah, you have spotted a flaw in my attempt to humour the thread. The case of money in the afore-mentioned joke would have been a prospective candidates' and not Aer Lingus's as it may imply. I was subtly hinting that perhaps the hefty sum of 50k from the cadet cannot be described as an 'easy way in' should they be asked in an interview.

XWB

Railjon wrote: »

Ah, you have spotted a flaw in my attempt to humour the thread. The case of money in the afore-mentioned joke would have been a prospective candidates' and not Aer Lingus's as it may imply. I was subtly hinting that perhaps the hefty sum of 50k from the cadet cannot be described as an 'easy way in' should they be asked in an interview.

I was suggesting that a briefcase with 50k presented to the interviewer before after or during the interview may sway it!:D...although if asked he'd have never seen it before!;)

But seriously...I cant imagine 20 people getting 50k together easily..

Padlock69

But seriously...I cant imagine 20 people getting 50k together easily..[/QUOTE]


I hope not, because I have it.

XWB

Padlock69 wrote: »

But seriously...I cant imagine 20 people getting 50k together easily..

I hope not, because I have it.[/QUOTE]

And if you advertise that to them you may well end up digging a hole for yourself...so I wouldnt tell until asked at interview

BigBirdie

So can anyone remember when they said, roughly, they'd get back to us regarding interviews? The assessments are over now so I'm on the edge of my seat.. :S

Contrails

BigBirdie wrote: »

So can anyone remember when they said, roughly, they'd get back to us regarding interviews? The assessments are over now so I'm on the edge of my seat.. :S

Well so far as i can remember it was November at the earliest. I'd say realistically the 1st, Maybe 2nd week. There's a fair amount of candidates still in the pot to sort through!

Tune in next month to 'Irelands got Pilots'...

Gat Dayum!

How did your assessment go Contrails

diego_b

At our assessment we were told that we should know one way or another by the end of October and that interviews would start in the first two weeks of November.

Assessments over now I think? How did everyone find it? Did we all do the same case study, ours was to recommend an energy source to an island.

Group Task: So we were given the information and I think it was 15/30 mins to read over it. Get together as a group for 15mins and come up with a recommendation of which one to choose. Felt I contributed well in the group, got across my points well and was active in discussions without dominating the proceedings.

Next came the individual task, we were given more information relating to each energy source, wattage, cost, impact etc and then had to prepare for 30mins for a 5 minute interview with members of the Eulasian government (Aer Lingus captain and HR rep) and give a further recommendation based on the extra information. It was an enjoyable process overall and I felt the Aer Lingus people couldn't have been nicer during the whole thing.

Finally the Q&A session which in our case lasted half an hour.
So we began the day at 8:45am and were finished up just before 1pm. Back to work for me then it was!

Jed and Dave

was in at the last session yesterday and i too found the experience enjoyable, there was good interaction between everyone.
had the same group assessment we tried to examine all the options but ran out of time, again i might have come across a bit pushy/take the lead some people in my group wanted to discount a few options however i felt we had to examine all options i probably was a bit pushy allthough it was not my intention its just when your doing these things you want to go about it the right way:D

in the individual task - i just back up my points made in the group task and some people said they got grilled on their options for me it didnt feel like that overall i felt it went well but who knows what their looking for.

diego_b

I don't think anyone came across too pushy in ours but you never know what they're really looking for in these cases, could be a good thing or a bad thing. I had made a mistake at the start of ours with missing a requirement but was fine with it when corrected by one of my colleagues, definitely felt I made up for it in the end when we were told one minute to as we were at a stalement with two options and I was able to help us decide on one clearly and quickly within a few seconds.

I changed my recommendation for the individual task once given the extra information as I felt I then had the info the would meant we would have went for the other of two options in the stalement. I found the interviewers very nice and not as nit picking as I thought they could have been. I had prepared some bullet points on each source and had them in front of me so I could defend my choice easily enough.

Contrails

Gat Dayum! wrote: »

How did your assessment go Contrails

My experience was pretty much the exact same as the guys who posted above. And that, for me, was the only problem i had at the assessment. Throughout the day and after i left, i felt quite happy and that i had given my best and was 'just being myself'. But the thing is, so was everyone else.

Most seemed reasonably happy.
Most seemed level headed.
Most seemed like very nice people.
And most seemed to get their points across well on the day.

Im very happy in the sense that i couldnt have done any more than i did. But am i good enough to be in the next phase? I havent the faintest idea. And thats whats keeping me 'on the edge of my seat' ...

Gat Dayum!

Contrails wrote: »

.

Im very happy in the sense that i couldnt have done any more than i did. But am i good enough to be in the next phase? I havent the faintest idea. And thats whats keeping me 'on the edge of my seat' ...

I felt exactly the same. That's all ya can do in fairness!

Tightwad

We were told the end of October/early November with regard to yes or no.

At the assessment I felt I was left behind somewhat and, at one point, slightly out of my depth. It was my first experience of an assessment and, during the pre exercise small talk, it was made clear that the majority of our group had experienced an assessment at least once before. The quality of candidates in the group was high from my point of view. Again, who knows what they are looking for?!

Despite it being an alien situation, I found the whole process an inspiration and a real confidence booster. Aer Lingus exuded a very professional atmosphere, which left me wanting to be part of the company even more.

diego_b

That's it alright guys, think pretty much everyone I met was happy enough with things and would say the same as we've all said here regarding the assessments. Must also say that as well the Aer Lingus people the candidates that attended my assessment seemed like geniunely proper nice people from both old and young. Seemed like a good spread of ages, I know two of the fellas I spoke to afterwards were 19/20 years old in 1st/2nd year of college. Some of the older guys were mid 30s and had PPLs.
Some of the people at my course were really into their flying and had clocking a fair amount of time between Europe and America on smaller planes and helicopters so I suppose in ways I felt a bit intimidated as to date I've never been in anything like a Cessna or similiar small planes. Have been on helicopter once and it wasn't an issue for me.

handsomecake

diego_b wrote: »

At our assessment we were told that we should know one way or another by the end of October and that interviews would start in the first two weeks of November.

Assessments over now I think? How did everyone find it? Did we all do the same case study, ours was to recommend an energy source to an island.

Group Task: So we were given the information and I think it was 15/30 mins to read over it. Get together as a group for 15mins and come up with a recommendation of which one to choose. Felt I contributed well in the group, got across my points well and was active in discussions without dominating the proceedings.

Next came the individual task, we were given more information relating to each energy source, wattage, cost, impact etc and then had to prepare for 30mins for a 5 minute interview with members of the Eulasian government (Aer Lingus captain and HR rep) and give a further recommendation based on the extra information. It was an enjoyable process overall and I felt the Aer Lingus people couldn't have been nicer during the whole thing.

Finally the Q&A session which in our case lasted half an hour.
So we began the day at 8:45am and were finished up just before 1pm. Back to work for me then it was!

not having a go at you individually, but between this sort of " excercise" and the psychometric testing i cant help but feel perfectly good "flying" people get discounted on trivial things that dont pertain to aviation.

diego_b

I agree handsomecake in regards perfectly good flying people missing out but unfortunately something must show up in these tests that are not desirable to what Aer Lingus are looking for. It's hard on people especially when they've already developed a lot of the skills and knowledge needed for the job. There's nothing to stop these people trying another route into the industry and hopefully they get what they want.
Also with 2000 plus applicants for potentially 20 places (I think they'll only take 20 if they're to standard and not just 20 best people if they don't fit the bill properly), there's going to be a lot of people going to be left disappointed.

Railjon

They probably did this sort of exercise to see how everyone reacts to a 'strange' subject. If you were to make it an aviation-based exercise then those with flying hours/experience could be at an advantage and skew the results of the 'loudmouth' test and those who are too quiet may work really well in a team but may not be able to be seen to make a contribution because others have that head start.

They're testing group-work and your ability to reason and take in information, not how much aviation experience one has.

shamrock421

Sigh :rolleyes:
Im sure many others heard this at the Q&A section..!
"If you cant get the money, then there is no point in you progressing any further at this stage".

That kind of says it all really, doesnt it .

Tenger

shamrock421 wrote: »

Sigh :rolleyes:
Im sure many others heard this at the Q&A section..!
"If you cant get the money, then there is no point in you progressing any further at this stage".

That kind of says it all really, doesnt it .

While I can see the financial logic behind this decision I feel that EI are unnecessarily restricting their potential pool of recruits.

If the are going to take 20 per year for 5 years why not have 2 finance options. One for those who can get the ~50K and another with a very serious bond for those who can't. EI should be looking for the best overall candidates rather than the best of those with cash.

Having listened the the last EI investor briefing, (Profit expected for 2011) E1-2 million liability is not a serious problem from them.