AL Cadet programme

FlyFloatplanes

Man, this sucks....I mean, I understand that I haven't got through the next phase, and Aer Lingus has the right to tell me if I'm worthy to get through or not, BUT; In the last interview they specifically said that we would hear for sure about the next round of interviews by the end of October. Now I know that I haven't heard anything, and this is a big negative..But if you say somebody will hear something by a specific date, then tell them by that date, otherwise its just plain unfair, and that person (aka ME!!!) will keep dreaming and holding out hope, and thats unfair....Put me out of my misery already.

basill

A friend of mine applied around 2-3 years ago when we were ramping up direct hires with a view to slot them into LGW and BFS with a few luckies into DUB. He got right through to the sim ride and never heard from them again. He wasn't to fussed as he was about to do his command checks elsewhere and didn't really want to go to LGW in anycase. For him it was only to get some A320 time and he used the process as some interview practice.

Unfortunately this is how HR run the place and as far as I can see how it has been since adam was a babe. Whether it is just incompetence or risk averseness to being sued for discrimination I don't know.

They still seem to have a very high opinion of themself that people will be waiting at the end of the phone ready to jump when called. You would have thought they would have worked it out after the last round of direct entry hires when the likes of BA and Virgin took the cream of the crop but alas sadly no. Good luck.

No.username

Yeah i have to admit the waiting is killing me too! But HR might be waiting until they interview some candidates in case some turn out to be numties or some just are not as interested as they were when they first applied and they might not bother going to the interview. Its no surprise to me that i didnt get called back because i know i wasnt up to the standard needed to get through the last round (think i said about 2 words throughout the group circle) but i feel i would have done pretty well in the interview and tech knowledge side of things, i guess its just the way it goes

Gar-Bar

Does anybody have any idea what it is Aer Lingus are looking for in potential cadets? How do they achieve this selection using the online instruments?

I am on a full time integrated course at present, 5 of the class including myself applied for the cadet scheme. Out of the 5, 3 were issued with a PFO after the online assessments, 2 progressing to group assessment. I attended the group assessment, and along with my class mate we did not hear back last Friday. I have a number of old school friends who applied for the scheme, with no interest in or ambition to become pilots with Aer Lingus, these all heard back last Friday.

It is a major factor of doubt as to what Aer Lingus require, I have seen first hand 5 fine cadets with a genuine interest in AL being dropped. Pity as I had always wanted to join the airline as a cadet, I had emailed the cadet dept. in 2001 at age 12 looking for information.

I would appreciate some response from Aer Lingus, and I would love to get some feedback on my application.

Railjon

Haven't posted in a while because I thought if I did I might aggravate myself or others but Gar-Bar's post has stirred my curiosity.

For the sake of the 'survey':
-Turned 20 last week
-Little over two hours flying time
-Average GCSEs and A-Levels but did well in Maths and Sciences
-Currently studying for a BSc in Transport w/ Specialism with predicted 1:1
-Job: Working on a recurring scholarship which involves leading and directing groups as well as working in teams.
-Got through to the last 10 in the Cityjet scheme earlier this year
-Got through to the group exercise/interview stage in the BA scheme but was very unwell and part of me didnt show up on the day. I said to people I made it very difficult for them to put me through!
- Because of the two above, got offered places at FTEJerez and OAA
- Yet to hear from Aer Lingus

Feeling very disappointed at not hearing anything from Aer Lingus yet, especially as Malachy O'Curry made the point at the Radisson that those with decent chance of succeeding in the scheme would get an interview and that it wasn't a number cutting exercise. Personally I felt I had a good application with no waffle in it that I had several pilots and one ex AL cadet friend take a look at. The online assessment went well, I thought. The group exercise went well and I particularly enjoyed the presentation to the staff members.

While I don't feel that I am 'owed' a place, definitely not, based on what was said I can't see where I went wrong, or to phrase it better, what more I could have done. I prepared so much in the event of the interview at the Radisson being Aer Lingus based or getting through to an interview stage so I have a personal interest and passion for the company. Incidentally in the event I get a PFO at some point which looks almost inevitable at this stage, I'll be happy to make my notes available to those fortunate ones so that they can give this as good a go as I would have.

I've applied for the Easyjet MPL (desperate huh...), but will always want to be flying the left side of the tricolor instead of the right..

Railjon

Aero Kid

No news is good news I guess!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember being told at the Q&A session that not all emails will go out at once. The training captain said (I'm sure he did anyway) that emails will be sent out at the end/beginning of October/November. However, as they progressed through the interview dates, more emails would be sent out. I read in one of my emails from AL that the stage 4 part of the selection process would run from the 8th of November to the 29th. When I got my email to select my interview date, my choice only went upto the 23rd. Maybe following week could still yet be taken up by people that haven't received the email.

Please don't quote me on this though!

foxtrot hotel

If you get the aerlingus cadetship! FAS it seems will reduce the cost to €49,500 with there €500 grant!
Info seen here :
http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36480#p36480

diego_b

Just got a mail from Aer Lingus

Dear Candidate,

We are pleased to advise you that we are increasing our financial support for the Cadet Pilot Training Programme.

As a result the financial contribution required from you during the training programme should equate to 25% of the total cost. As a guideline this should be in the region of €25,000.

Only candidates who are progressed to the offer stage of the programme will be required to demonstrate their ability to fund their contribution.

Yours sincerely

Aer Lingus Recruitment Team

diego_b

This is great news for people trying to get the Finance together before the interview stage as my understanding from this is that you no longer need to have the financial offer information with you on the day.

kiwster

I just got that mail too. I can hardly contain my excitement at reading it. I actually didn't even see the last bit of the mail where it says proof is not required until offer stage.

BigBirdie

diego_b wrote: »

This is great news for people trying to get the Finance together before the interview stage as my understanding from this is that you no longer need to have the financial offer information with you on the day.

I am taking that understanding too, that we dont have to have proof yet. Really great news though!

diego_b

I'm probably not going to be going ahead with the interview myself at this stage, just need to go through it all with my missus once more but pretty much decided that I won't be going ahead with it. Least this pretty much rules out the money issue that I had as I think pretty much anyone would be able to secure a loan of 25K from a bank with the future potential of this role.
But in my case I have other issues in regards the location of training, being without pay for 14 months with both a mortgage and a baby come next April to support, and finally with no certainty as to where I would be based after training was completed.

I'm genuinely delighted for my fellow candidates as I know this really has opened it up to many here that were having to reconsider and many that I met at my group assessment....people that really want this job more than almost anything and now that we're getting down to the crunch I don't think I can honestly class myself in that category.

antonov225

Diego, that sounds like you've been thinking this all through carefully and have weighed up the pros and cons.

I'm sure you have considered this, but I might point out that you do not have to accept an offer by Aer Lingus if one is made to you... would you not think about pushing ahead with the interview anyway? You don't know what details will be revealed when, maybe the company will tell us more about where we'll be based, whether living costs are included in the funding etc. etc.

If I were in your situation with mortgage etc. I guess I'd still want to satisfaction of receiving an offer and turning it down rather than dropping out. That said only you know your own circumstances. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

On the note of the email just received... I may now be unsuitable for the position on grounds of brain damage after smacking myself off the floor. Having been precariously balanced at the apex of my rocking, I actually fell backwards off my chair when I saw it.

Contrails

And the opportunity has just gotten even better... Bloody hell, as good as that news is, it'll make not making the cut even more heart breaking. 25k for integrated flight training, TR and a career to follow. Its just unheard of. Its getting harder to keep my hopes grounded now

Suits

Hi all,

I am through to the next round too and am a long time reader of this topic. At the group q&a session I asked about the bit at the end of the ad that stated something along the lines of "we'll type rate you and put you on line when a space is available". Now I have an aviation specific degree and have a couple of years in the industry under my belt and like to think I know a bit about how the game is played.
The part at the end of the ad worried me a bit as it sounds like the kind of thing Easyjet run with the holding pool and no guarantee of a job. I have friends who went to CTC with Easy and who have been burned by that in the past..left unemployed and in debt up to their eyes. If I'm honest...I have decided that if there is a holding pool I will drop out and go modular if possble.

Could one of the people within Aer Lingus that post here shed some light on this?

Dacian

I doubt EI will operate the holding pool as I beleive they need those pilots on the lines. This recruitment is to cover the current fleet/network rather than future expansion.

As for Diego B: I say stick with it for as long as you can. It is a huge decision but it may well pay off for your family in 5-10 years. I was willing to move to Ballygirren for the ATC scheme 2-3 years ago, with a family staying in Dublin, didn't make the cut there though.

In terms of basing with EI, well they are all close enough and with good roads between them you could commute........ (DUB, ORK, BFS, LGW-flites per day for here)

silverfield

Suits: you make no sense? You can have all your training for 25k, job at the end or not. Why would you not do that? Not unless of course you have 100k to blow going down the modular route? NO flight company or FTO can ever guarantee you a job - look what happened to the AL cadets in 2002 when in Jerez, none of them got job offers from AL at the end of their training after the 9/11 attacks took place - The point is you never know what the future holds.

Cessna_Pilot

silverfield wrote: »

Suits: you make no sense? You can have all your training for 25k, job at the end or not. Why would you not do that? Not unless of course you have 100k to blow going down the modular route? NO flight company or FTO can ever guarantee you a job - look what happened to the AL cadets in 2002 when in Jerez, none of them got job offers from AL at the end of their training after the 9/11 attacks took place - The point is you never know what the future holds.

100K on modular? Get the boat! Modular should cost you nowhere near that.
I'm with "suits" on this. I am quite sure when the training contracts come out, the fine print will be worth reading with regards to future employment and repayments should one no complete the course etc.

Contrails

]

100K on modular? Get the boat! Modular should cost you nowhere near that.
I'm with "suits" on this. I am quite sure when the training contracts come out, the fine print will be worth reading with regards to future employment and repayments should one no complete the course etc.[/Quote]
You're having a laugh. As already stated. 25k for full integrated training or 50-60k doing modular? Even if there was no job at the end of it, the former is the better option. In every possible way.

xflyer

To be fair to Aer Lingus, when the last round of sponsored cadets were left without jobs after 9/11. Aer Lingus didn't forget them. As soon as there were jobs for them they were contacted and offered a place. This was years later. Interestingly despite they fact that they were selected so carefully, some didn't come back and others had left aviation completely. Makes you wonder at their motivation to be a pilot in the first place.

Previous to that in the eighties, another cadet class was left high and dry. This time Aer Lingus took them on in various jobs within the then larger airline group. Not exactly an option now. I remember working with no less then four of them in an Aer Lingus subsidiary. I considered it quite ironic as I had applied for that cadetship and probably would have ended up doing the same job. I envied them though, every Friday they chose a flight and flew jumpseat so they could keep in the loop. It was years before they were taken on fully.

That's not to say it would happen now but there is a precedent.

BigBirdie

xflyer wrote: »

Previous to that in the eighties, another cadet class was left high and dry. This time Aer Lingus took them on in various jobs within the then larger airline group. Not exactly an option now. I remember working with no less then four of them in an Aer Lingus subsidiary. I considered it quite ironic as I had applied for that cadetship and probably would have ended up doing the same job. I envied them though, every Friday they chose a flight and flew jumpseat so they could keep in the loop. It was years before they were taken on fully.

It's interesting that you say that, because I'm sure in our talk we were told that if you wern't offered jobs immediately you would be taken on in another area of the business. So that could well be an option.

Having said that, the fact that they are now investing so much in us would make me think that jobs were highly likely with too long after completion of the course.

silverfield

Sorry, I was talking about the costs for going fully integrated by yourself in one of the more prestigious and better know FTO's such as Jerez or OAA - modular would cost about 50-60K but I'd take the 25k and possibly no job at the end option any day.

Suits

silverfield wrote: »

Sorry, I was talking about the costs for going fully integrated by yourself in one of the more prestigious and better know FTO's such as Jerez or OAA - modular would cost about 50-60K but I'd take the 25k and possibly no job at the end option any day.

Well a lot of the Easyjet guys were put in the holding pool and kept there. I know one guy who I was in college with who went into the pool and was there a very long time only to be told that they could not specify how long he would have to wait. In the end he had to remove his name and get a job on the ground to pay the bills. That's not forgeting that the quoted overall 100k is for minimum hours and that is always worth bearing in mind when going the integrated route. You may need extra hours and I doubt Aer Lingus will foot that bill!
If you are in a holding pool a lot of other airlines dont really want to touch you for fear you may jump ship if your number comes up. You come with strings attached! That is what all the guys I know in that situation have told me. It's like limbo. Kinda putting all your eggs in one basket.

Some here seem to be suggesting that integrated is better, but in fact many European Airlines are taking another look at that and some such as FR are starting to build relationships with the more community based FTOs like Atlantic and NFC for modular students as they believe these grads are of better quality than some of the Integrated people. The school of thought there is that integrated schools are too distant in their tuition and that modular schools seem to have more time for the student and so the quality and understanding is better. However a cadetship may have a more mentored approach to training so it may not matter.

What worries me really is that I asked this question at the q&a and they said they could not confirm that there would be no holding pool and that it was an option they would keep open owing to crewing requirements.

In the course of my current job I work closely with many pilots who have told me that a large raft of DE style candidates have come up on the crest of the last wave (from a certain airline that has many Irish pilots) and that Aer Lingus is looking at taking their pick of them. That is supposed to fill a crewing gap.

I just want cast iron details and less of the evasion that we seem to be getting over key issues. Thats all.

antonov225

Suits wrote: »

Well a lot of the Easyjet guys were put in the holding pool and kept there. I know one guy who I was in college with who went into the pool and was there a very long time only to be told that they could not specify how long he would have to wait. In the end he had to remove his name and get a job on the ground to pay the bills. That's not forgeting that the quoted overall 100k is for minimum hours and that is always worth bearing in mind when going the integrated route. You may need extra hours and I doubt Aer Lingus will foot that bill!
If you are in a holding pool a lot of other airlines dont really want to touch you for fear you may jump ship if your number comes up. You come with strings attached! That is what all the guys I know in that situation have told me. It's like limbo. Kinda putting all your eggs in one basket.

Some here seem to be suggesting that integrated is better, but in fact many European Airlines are taking another look at that and some such as FR are starting to build relationships with the more community based FTOs like Atlantic and NFC for modular students as they believe these grads are of better quality than some of the Integrated people. The school of thought there is that integrated schools are too distant in their tuition and that modular schools seem to have more time for the student and so the quality and understanding is better. However a cadetship may have a more mentored approach to training so it may not matter.

What worries me really is that I asked this question at the q&a and they said they could not confirm that there would be no holding pool and that it was an option they would keep open owing to crewing requirements.

In the course of my current job I work closely with many pilots who have told me that a large raft of DE style candidates have come up on the crest of the last wave (from a certain airline that has many Irish pilots) and that Aer Lingus is looking at taking their pick of them. That is supposed to fill a crewing gap.

I just want cast iron details and less of the evasion that we seem to be getting over key issues. Thats all.

Well, regarding requirements, I was told at our Q&A that AL do not forsee a need for pilots in 2012, but they do forsee a need for pilots in 2013. Hence why they are running a cedetship, so that they may have pilots trained in a mentored fashion to their standards and philosophies, as well as indebted to the company, to fill that need for 2013.

It was posted recently that some pilots may have been let go due do some or other hard landing problems etc. Well if that be true then the situation may have changed and they may now have a need for pilots for 2012 to fill that space. This should not affect the already forseen need for pilots in 2013. If they are forecasting that need this far in advance then it must be due to fairly predictable reasons such as upcoming retirements and expansion.

With this logic then any current talk of immediate DE recruitment should not affect the cadet's chances of a job. Did Aer Lingus not announce, officially and today, that they will be investing 50% more than previously thought in the the cadets training?

On the subject of evasion of details, I firmly believe that the amount of information given to us at every stage in the process thus far has been fully deliberate and intentional. My speculation on the 'financial approval' vagueness was that it was simply a test to see how many emails and phone calls they would receive requesting more information to bring to financial institutions. Put simply, the final decisions on funding had not been made yet. It would explain why we were not advised. AL wanted to test us and see just how many of us happened to have easy access to the 50k. When it turned out that not many people did, they upped their sponsorship to 75k to avoid the entire selection process thus far becoming a farce by ending up not with the candidates they want but with the ones who could afford it. Which would bring them back to to the very problem they were having with DE's (according to various unreliable online sources).

just my speculation here that's all, entirely based on what's been going around the internet and not solid facts so take it or leave it I guess.
Anto

diego_b

Thanks for the nice words above guys, I took all that on board and so had a talk with the missus this evening and I'm going to go ahead and do the interview anyways. I'm off work that day anyways so I had freedom that way at least.

If I'm lucky enough to get through the interviews I can then consider my options again. I'd rather be told no by Aer Lingus that I'm not suitable than cop out at this point.
Having the financial restriction eased by the amount needed lowered and not having to have approval at this stage has played a key part too.

Filled up my forms tonight, have to touch up the CV tonight as well. Doing an eye test tomorrow for the colour blindness but it will be fine as I have done loads of these over the years as I wear specs (from what I can tell I'm grand on that front but going to bring some info on Class 1 requirements to the optician with me and ask them based on my prescription).

Tightwad

To those who have not yet received e-mail confirming a Yes or NO. As said previously we were told to expect to know by the end of October, has anyone been in contact with Aer Lingus with regard to this?

eatmyshorts

xflyer wrote: »

To be fair to Aer Lingus, when the last round of sponsored cadets were left without jobs after 9/11. Aer Lingus didn't forget them. As soon as there were jobs for them they were contacted and offered a place. This was years later.

The thanks for that should go to IALPA, not to EI. It was the union who demanded and negotiated the right of first refusal to any cadets once recruitment was again required.

eatmyshorts

diego_b wrote: »

Thanks for the nice words above guys, I took all that on board and so had a talk with the missus this evening and I'm going to go ahead and do the interview anyways. I'm off work that day anyways so I had freedom that way at least.

If I'm lucky enough to get through the interviews I can then consider my options again. I'd rather be told no by Aer Lingus that I'm not suitable than cop out at this point.
Having the financial restriction eased by the amount needed lowered and not having to have approval at this stage has played a key part too.

Aer Lingus recruiters are well aware of any posts and discussions about the process on this website and others. From the info you have posted, it won't be difficult for them to know which of the candidates you are.
Prepare to be questioned about your commitment at the last stage.

ECHO INDIA

2nd day of interviews today, right?

silverfield

Yep second day of interviews today and everyone is keeping nicely quiet