AL Cadet programme

Delancey · 14-07-2012 3:53pm

I just learnt that the brother of a colleague was fortunate enough to be awarded one of the cadetships . According to this lucky fella between a quarter and a third of those sucessful are the children of Aer Lingus employees ( no doubt a coincidence :rolleyes: ).

bombs away · 14-07-2012 4:18pm

Delancey wrote: »

I just learnt that the brother of a colleague was fortunate enough to be awarded one of the cadetships . According to this lucky fella between a quarter and a third of those sucessful are the children of Aer Lingus employees ( no doubt a coincidence :rolleyes: ).

Nothing new there so :cool:

JJLongford · 14-07-2012 5:19pm

Delancey wrote: »

I just learnt that the brother of a colleague was fortunate enough to be awarded one of the cadetships . According to this lucky fella between a quarter and a third of those sucessful are the children of Aer Lingus employees ( no doubt a coincidence :rolleyes: ).

Any news on how they're gettin on otherwise?

It's like a monarchy in there. No gettin in unless ur DNA matches. And der was me thinkin i lived in a Republic where we were all equals nd treated fairly.

eatmyshorts · 14-07-2012 10:23pm

JJLongford wrote: »

It's like a monarchy in there. No gettin in unless ur DNA matches. And der was me thinkin i lived in a Republic where we were all equals nd treated fairly.

An ability to properly construct a sentence in the English language would probably help your chances too.

JJLongford · 14-07-2012 10:52pm

eatmyshorts wrote: »

An ability to properly construct a sentence in the English language would probably help your chances too.

Me no educated enough for those. No chance. me no clever like u! :eek:

bluecode · 14-07-2012 11:07pm

Delancey wrote: »

I just learnt that the brother of a colleague was fortunate enough to be awarded one of the cadetships . According to this lucky fella between a quarter and a third of those sucessful are the children of Aer Lingus employees ( no doubt a coincidence :rolleyes: ).

Of course and yet people deny it vehemently. On the other hand I know two pilots both female, who were relatives of very distinguished Aer Lingus Captains and yet missed the cut, admittedly not lately. Two of the best pilots I ever had the pleasure of flying with.

Makes you wonder?

Actually not, this is Ireland.

JST · 21-07-2012 12:02pm

Does anybody know how many of the 20 selected don't have ANY experience with flying, or don't have any kind of background in the aviation industry?
I work in the IT industry, and I missed this opportunity...but if it arises again in the past (I'm almost 30 years old now), I would probably try it. But I would like to know what are my chances in a program like this, without any prior experience?
Thanks

Xpro · 21-07-2012 12:18pm

JST wrote: »

Does anybody know how many of the 20 selected don't have ANY experience with flying, or don't have any kind of background in the aviation industry?
I work in the IT industry, and I missed this opportunity...but if it arises again in the past (I'm almost 30 years old now), I would probably try it. But I would like to know what are my chances in a program like this, without any prior experience?
Thanks

Hi,
Is your father a captain in Aerlingus or somebody in your family is employed by EI?

If not , forget it! You wont get in!:(

On a serious note, go ahead and try it, you never know. This year they took in people with some previous flying experience and some without any knowledge in aviation, so its worth a try!
Good Luck,

jetster · 21-07-2012 8:24pm

Is your father a captain in Aerlingus or somebody in your family is employed by EI?

If not , forget it! You wont get in!

Posts like this are quite offensive to me so I have decided to say something under a temporary username.
I became a cadet at a young age without knowing a single person in the airline. I was not the exception. Yes some of the other cadets had friends or relatives working in the company, but usually in completely unrelated departments. I can only think of one cadet that had a pilot father for my intake. Others simply could not have possibly used their very limited links to Aer Lingus to their advantage.

To say that the entire selection process is unfair and corrupt may make you feel better as a failed applicant, but it has no bearing on reality.
It also belittles the achievements of those successful applicants who rightly believe they were awarded their positions based on merit.

I know one of the cadets who alot think is a complete joke that this person got the cadetship at all due to previous misconduct in the general aviation scene in Ireland

Please do share; this is an anonymous forum after all. People like this never last. For the same reasons they got themselves into trouble in the past, they will find themselves in it again. Dont name him obviously, but do tell the story!

LeftBase · 31-07-2012 8:03pm

I will again refer to the well flogged horse of the dozens of perfectly proficient Irish pilots who would have an arm off to work for Aer Lingus and come in at DE with no cadetship costs. The same guys that are on the FR => EY express at present. Yet they spend money on the advertising/staging of a cadetship process that doesn't deliver 100% of what they hope.

As far as the family in Aer Lingus thing, it was my understanding that accounted for 50% of new intake over the years with the rest being looked at honestly. It does happen, but not 100% of the time. One of the problems I know was the references page of the application last year and the fact it asked for the referee's relationship to you. Many people had current or past Aer Lingus pilots as a reference(many may have been parents/uncles etc) and that was in some eyes unfair and it was felt perhaps there should have been a "dont use an aer lingus employee as a reference" rule.

I'm not 100% sure they will run another cadetship as the last one was not what anyone on the applicant or Aer Lingus side wanted it to be.
I like many others was annoyed that struggling aviators were not given a chance and that college grads who may only have seen the "$$$ and fancy uniform/status" side of flying were given more chance. Some of the guys I met at the group interviews had no clue about aviation at all or what the actual realistic prospects were. This fact was evident in the way they all fell hook, line and sinker for the frightening familiar PTC type slide show Aer Lingus gave.;)

GoAround · 31-07-2012 9:03pm

As for the DE with EI, would training somewhere in Florida(for example) compared to Oxford or Jerez have a negative impact on being selected for EI and do they really look at whether you have done your training through the modular or intergrated route? Would they rather see pilots come through these high profile FTO's after completing the intergrated programs .Just out of interest?

LeftBase · 31-07-2012 9:42pm

GoAround wrote: »

As for the DE with EI, would training somewhere in Florida(for example) compared to Oxford or Jerez have a negative impact on being selected for EI and do they really look at whether you have done your training through the modular or intergrated route? Would they rather see pilots come through these high profile FTO's after completing the intergrated programs .Just out of interest?

Don't train in Florida. In truth most airlines in Ireland/Europe(EI,RE,FR,EZY) are not too inclined to take guys who have done all their training in Florida or anywhere in the US.

They used to favor integrated guys for DE frozen ATPLs(ie straight from flight training), but now they dont seem to take fATPL applicants, so if you went modular and did 5 years in RE then they would give you an even enough shot it seems as a DE. A lot of the DE guys they have taken recently came from another airline.
Issues with some of the sim check/type rating course performances by the graduates of the high profile schools have turned Aer Lingus off frozen ATPLs as DE FOs it seems(FR and RE have had the same problem too). The best hope for a DE place in Aer Lingus is to go get a few 1000 hours at another airline(on the A320 if possible) and apply then.

My advice to anyone starting out is to avoid the "big" integrated schools unless you have an airline mentoring/sponsoring you. In some cases the modular schools are regarded higher by airlines and they are cheaper!

jetster · 01-08-2012 7:05pm

As for the DE with EI

The closest you compare to their own cadets the more favourably you will be looked upon in future.
As for other airlines, each have different theories for recruitment, and some couldnt give a damn.

I like many others was annoyed that struggling aviators were not given a chance and that college grads who may only have seen the "$$$........

Aer Lingus is not a charity and aviation is an industry. The best candidates get the job. That's the whole point of a cadetship.

the last one was not what anyone on the applicant or Aer Lingus side wanted it to be

doesn't deliver 100% of what they hope.

I dont know how you presume to have insight into the quality of successful applicants or the training department's view of them.

I for one would prefer to have the "college grad" who has an unrealistic view of the prospects available sitting besude me rather than a desperate wannabe aviator.

Stop imagining a conspiracy against you and stop putting down those who beat you.

LeftBase · 01-08-2012 7:49pm

jetster wrote: »

The closest you compare to their own cadets the more favourably you will be looked upon in future.

When you come as an applicant for a cadetship they want to see if they can make an airline pilot out of you.
When you come as a DE applicant they want to see 99% of an airline pilot sitting in front of them and if they can make a Captain out of you at their airline.
The criteria do differ a little bit.

Aer Lingus is not a charity and aviation is an industry. The best candidates get the job. That's the whole point of a cadetship.

Aer Lingus has leaked former cadets to larger airlines/companies who pay more or even out of the industry altogether soon after the bond expires in the past because they had no real gra for aviation to begin with. Some but not all have seen it as a handy meal ticket and have moved on in or out of aviation when they were given a better paid offer. That is not good business in anyone's book.

I dont know how you presume to have insight into the quality of successful applicants or the training department's view of them.

I for one would prefer to have the "college grad" who has an unrealistic view of the prospects available sitting besude me rather than a desperate wannabe aviator.

Stop imagining a conspiracy against you and stop putting down those who beat you.

I am not commenting on the successful applicants quality. I am referring to the fact that the screening process took longer than it was supposed to and was sometimes a little bit frantic. When I went for interview it seemed very disorganised and they even had the wrong list of applicants for the day at the start.

You draw a safety concern to make your point which has me puzzled. For anyone to sit next to you he must pass all the checks etc with standards and training. Be he a marketing or business graduate, accountant, or a guy who adores flying and couldn't afford college he must meet the safety standard. I have never heard of an aircraft(in flight anyway) being saved by a quick witted accountant. Going to college and doing a degree unrelated to aviation doesn't necessarily make you a good pilot. Those who applied because they wanted the money and status will be at EY as soon as they can get there. Again, not a good financial situation for Aer Lingus.

There is a very good example of such a cadet who will be familiar to any trainees who shopped around the Irish market.

The last comment you made is something I find really negative on this forum. The idea that anyone who speaks ill of Aer Lingus or the Air Corps or any other organisation is only doing so because they were "beaten by better applicants" is really just a wall to better dialogue on these boards. I got through a few stages while still doing my pilot training to CPL and then was rejected by Aer Lingus. I carried on my training regardless and have a feeling that may have deterred them, but then again maybe not...nobody knows.

jetster · 02-08-2012 4:53am

When you come as an applicant for a cadetship they want to see if they can make an airline pilot out of you.
When you come as a DE applicant they want to see 99% of an airline pilot sitting in front of them and if they can make a Captain out of you at their airline.
The criteria do differ a little bit.

Recruitment is always conducted on an applicants ability to (eventually)become an Aer Lingus Captain. An 18yr old Cadet or 33yr old DE F/O is treated equally in this regard. Both type of applicant will have the same time to command based on seniority and date of entry.

You draw a safety concern to make your point which has me puzzled.

I absolutely did not. I abhor people who pull the safety card for unrelated issues.

As I said, I would prefer the best man gets the job; and I believe that is what happens. I would also prefer that these men had a sense of professional worth, and would not persevere in a company or career purely for the oft-toted "love of flying". I would much rather a professional who stood up for himself, demanded a fair wage and would walk if it was not on offer.

Your post is written from the perspective of someone desperate to get into a right seat. What you have to realise is that the jobs market is exactly that. Supply and demand dictates wages.
I hope every pilot not happy with EI or any airline would move on. It is Aer Lingus' responsibility not only to attract but to retain the best talent.

You have quite clearly stated in your post that you would not be one to move on as readily. That then places you in the position of being a bottom feeder. You will take the job on lesser terms, knowing you were not the ideal candidate. This is the kind of candidate no pilot wants to see join his company, and one I do not wish to sit beside.

wall to better dialogue

This perhaps is the wall you speak of.

You WERE "beaten by betten applicants". Now I see in more ways than you will ever realise.

LeftBase · 02-08-2012 4:42pm

jetster wrote: »

Recruitment is always conducted on an applicants ability to (eventually)become an Aer Lingus Captain. An 18yr old Cadet or 33yr old DE F/O is treated equally in this regard. Both type of applicant will have the same time to command based on seniority and date of entry.

An 18yr old cadet applicant may never have flown. A 30yr old DE applicant will have his 200+ hours with 100 or more PIC or perhaps a few 1000 jet/tprop hours. The fact that they have operated as commander of an aircraft even if it is only a C152 will mean that any airline will expect a little bit more from them at interview.

I would prefer the best man gets the job; and I believe that is what happens. I would also prefer that these men had a sense of professional worth, and would not persevere in a company or career purely for the oft-toted "love of flying". I would much rather a professional who stood up for himself, demanded a fair wage and would walk if it was not on offer.

Many of the guys I'm talking about had more than a fair wage...much better than the average but they left once the bond was expired for a job that paid better. When you recruit anyone for anything be it a job in Tesco or an airline FO and you pay for their training you have to expect a degree of loyalty to the company given that they are employing you and paying for your TR(as not many companies now do). If a guy was studying marketing or business then you have to wonder if they switched so easily from that given that he would have had to pay college fees...how easily will he switch from aviation given that he will get a free ride to ATPL? A lot of cadets have gone back to their degree field in the past when flying was not what they thought it was.

You have quite clearly stated in your post that you would not be one to move on as readily. That then places you in the position of being a bottom feeder. You will take the job on lesser terms, knowing you were not the ideal candidate. This is the kind of candidate no pilot wants to see join his company, and one I do not wish to sit beside.

Name calling now are we?..:rolleyes:

If I was in a job that I hated with crap wages when I get my fATPL I would gladly leave and seek a better wage/set of conditions be it Aer Lingus or Ryanair(likely) or Aer Arran. However I will have paid for all my training myself and so will owe it to myself given that I fought so hard to claw the money together to train to find the best job where I am valued the most.
The point I am making is that many of the cadets who have bailed out in the past never paid a penny to Aer Lingus and had Aer Lingus foot the bill. A lot of them were only bonded for TR and left soon after the bond expired meaning Aer Lingus lost huge money on training them. If Aer Lingus or any airline paid for my training I would not be happy with low wages and hard hours etc but I would put up with it because they gave me my chance and put me here and I'd know that things would get better as I moved up the scale.
A lot of guys have abused Cadetships in all airlines but Aer Lingus have been hit badly for it in the past. They seem to recruit guys that want to be a cadet, some want to be pilots, but less seem to want to be Aer Lingus pilots.

Again an obvious example of such a pilot exists(or maybe existed now) in the Irish training market.

This perhaps is the wall you speak of.

You WERE "beaten by betten applicants". Now I see in more ways than you will ever realise.

Can I just point out that you started an alter-ego account........you dont seem to display any of this "stand up" and "speak out" moral fortitude you speak of. If you were unhappy with Aer Lingus would you put on a hat and fake mustache to go complain, threaten to move on and demand better?

Delancey · 02-08-2012 7:25pm

jetster wrote: »

You WERE "beaten by better applicants".

From what I've heard that should read '' you were beaten by better-connected applicants ''

JJLongford · 03-08-2012 11:16am

EI pilots will tell those that complain about the 'well connected' getting selected that they are trying to make themselves feel better about not getting selected.

They'll also say it's all merit based. But even if you did get in on the back of someone you knew you will still tell us you got in based on merit. You're hardly going to tell us that you got in 'cause Uncle Tommy was Chief Ops man. It'd just take away from your credibility.

My gut feeling: connections don't affect the earlier stage selections - let's face it, even Captains have idiot children that you don't want in the cockpit. But, at later stages I'd say it certainly helps. Let's face it, you're HR looking at two equal candidates. Who ya gona pick? Johnny, that you've known of for years 'cause he's the nephew of Tommy (and you know Tommy's a good worker) or Jack, that has no connection and you don't know any of his referees or family?

Probably no point in complaining. EI won't change. It's just the way it goes. Gota fight to get in, prove you're good and hope they're desperate for newbees.

Don't know if true but heard no sign of any cadetships for 2012 anyways.

Paxi_R6 · 03-08-2012 3:06pm

I May be new but maybe have some useful Information ,Aer Lingus will Take cadets again ,but in 'Drips' in 2014 as I was told .So That Means 5 to maybe 10 spaces will be available the next time . I done 3 higher for the leaving so that i would be eligible to Apply but that wont be for some time ,Are Etihad still taking International Cadets ? Im still only 17 and rather young but committing my future to being a pilot. Aer lingus has always been my dream job but having to fly else where for a few years really woudnt bother me

Paxi_R6 · 03-08-2012 3:11pm

Delancey wrote: »

From what I've heard that should read '' you were beaten by better-connected applicants ''

very ture

A girl ive been told about got In cause her Dad was a Capt @AerLingus well it Helped her cause Anyway.

MoeJay · 03-08-2012 4:45pm

By the gist of this thread (at this stage :rolleyes: ) you might come to the conclusion that there is a conveyor belt of cadets constantly leaving EI. The truth is the retention factor of cadets is well in excess of 90%. The retention factor of DE pilots is also incredibly high - in fact, during this whole debate not one person has mentioned the number of exit packages made available to pilots in the last number of years which would have a disproportionate effect on the numbers who have left in the same time period....hmmmmmm!

As regards to the "connection" argument, nobody has to go too far before they run into someone who either works in/is related to someone who works in EI. So if someone gets a job in EI and has a relation/friend already in the company are we to automatically propose that is the reason why they got the job?

Unless we are shown all the test results/interview scores (which we won't see) how do we reach a conclusion? What we got was some awful comments alleging all sorts of things about an individual (who may or may not be a cadet at all) and therefore the hiring policy.

I can speak from experience that "frantic" does not begin to describe how some things take place in EI (inlcuding recruitment) but it ain't a conspiracy.

The flight schools care not one jot. If you are not good enough, you will not pass the course. The Aviation Authority examiners do not give a toss how you got to the flight school, who your family are, if you post on boards.ie or anything else! Similarly you can have an ATPL and may not be cut out for airline operations.

Maybe we can get past the hyperbole!!

LeftBase · 06-08-2012 1:33pm

MoeJay wrote: »

The flight schools care not one jot. If you are not good enough, you will not pass the course. The Aviation Authority examiners do not give a toss how you got to the flight school, who your family are, if you post on boards.ie or anything else! Similarly you can have an ATPL and may not be cut out for airline operations.

That isn't the case for all flight schools. Plus not all flight school have "true" authority examiners involved. It can sometimes stay a little in house(as seen by the rumors about one such former school a year or 2 back). That is nothing to do with Aer Lingus, just a comment on some of the flight schools.

lufties · 08-08-2012 8:29pm

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

I May be new but maybe have some useful Information ,Aer Lingus will Take cadets again ,but in 'Drips' in 2014 as I was told .So That Means 5 to maybe 10 spaces will be available the next time . I done 3 higher for the leaving so that i would be eligible to Apply but that wont be for some time ,Are Etihad still taking International Cadets ? Im still only 17 and rather young but committing my future to being a pilot. Aer lingus has always been my dream job but having to fly else where for a few years really woudnt bother me

Just out of interest, why is EI your dream job?

zulutango · 09-08-2012 12:03pm

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

I May be new but maybe have some useful Information ,Aer Lingus will Take cadets again ,but in 'Drips' in 2014 as I was told .So That Means 5 to maybe 10 spaces will be available the next time . I done 3 higher for the leaving so that i would be eligible to Apply but that wont be for some time ,Are Etihad still taking International Cadets ? Im still only 17 and rather young but committing my future to being a pilot. Aer lingus has always been my dream job but having to fly else where for a few years really woudnt bother me

You'll have to brush up on your spelling and grammar if you want to come across well in an application/interview.

bluecode · 09-08-2012 1:09pm

Aer lingus has always been my dream job but having to fly else where for a few years really woudnt bother me

No harm in that but getting to fly somewhere else for a few years is just as difficult to achieve. Getting the illusive airline job is not so easy. Aer Lingus is no more or less as difficult than any other.

Paxi_R6 · 09-08-2012 10:16pm

Why is it my dream job ? Easy answer ,Since i was a young kid 5,6 ? I went to the airport most weekends and watched AL 737s fly out at the time . Just Amazed me the green livery and the planes ,Now i'm older it has not changed . In English I watched AL a320s,30s fly out alot of the time , Maybe that's why my grammar is not the best

..Ask alot of pilots from Ireland there dream job would most likely be AL . And im not saying Its easy getting into to any other Airlines quiet the opposite with AL ,BA seems like a good option when they take cadets again . And Care to Explain how Grammar while typing online would any way affect an Interview ??? ...But ill take the advice

zulutango · 09-08-2012 10:58pm

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

And Care to Explain how Grammar while typing online would any way affect an Interview ??? ...But ill take the advice

The way that you write often reflects the way that you speak, and the way you come across. Aside from that, the aptitude test involves writing. In general, in life, it pays to know how to structure sentences and spell correctly.

Julius Seizure · 15-08-2012 12:52pm

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

Why is it my dream job ? Easy answer ,Since i was a young kid 5,6 ? I went to the airport most weekends and watched AL 737s fly out at the time . Just Amazed me the green livery and the planes ,Now i'm older it has not changed . In English I watched AL a320s,30s fly out alot of the time , Maybe that's why my grammar is not the best ..Ask alot of pilots from Ireland there dream job would most likely be AL . And im not saying Its easy getting into to any other Airlines quiet the opposite with AL ,BA seems like a good option when they take cadets again . And Care to Explain how Grammar while typing online would any way affect an Interview ??? ...But ill take the advice

I'm in the same situation as you, I don't know there's just something so alluring about it. And the fact that your office is just in another world must be nice

I'm only 16 I'm going into transition year but still have the same tough decisions, try really hard to get a good LC and wait for a cadetship or work in other jobs in the airline to save up for modular training... I don't see my self even halving the 6k for a PPL never mind the 100k for the whole lot, but even if I need to spend years in some thing less interesting I still feel like it's a good goal. I'm like you, whenever we were driving up the old airport road I had my face glued to the window

bluecode · 15-08-2012 2:02pm

The Aer Lingus aptitude test is quite strict, you will need a good standard of English among other things. Not only that the same test is applied even to experienced pilots aiming to get into Aer Lingus.

I can understand the 'dream job' idea. I felt the same. I was pretty sure when Aer Lingus and or the Air Corps saw my enthusiasm they would snap me up. But they declined my kind offer on the first occasion. There was sadly no second occasion as one stopped taking cadets and the other changed the rules.

You really have to leave the dream job notion behind and start considering it like any job. Just as anyone looking at accounting or architecture or Zoology. What are the requirements? What do I need? What are the job prospects and career prospects? You also have to be realistic and decide if you are really cut out for the job.

You cannot depend on cadetships either. They might be gone next year and a whole new method of selection found. One thing you can be sure of though is that you will be paying for your training. Whether it be a cadetship or on your own initiative.

I know it's hard for a 16 year old to grasp this but you have to think about ten years into the future or even longer in terms of achieving your career ambitions as a pilot. That means you will have to make decisions now that will give you best chance of finding yourself actually sitting at an interview to be a pilot in any airline sometime in the future.

The key thing is not to throw all your eggs into the one pilot basket. It may not work out and you might end up wondering where it all went wrong.

Also don't get too caught up in getting into AL. We all know the saying: 'A bird in the hand.........' It doesn't matter about the colour of the aircraft or indeed the type. It's about the flying. Take any flying job.

I know a guy who is about to throw away golden opportunity to work as a pilot. He has the ratings and the door is being held open for him but he still clings to the original idea and hasn't really grasped the opportunity. What will happen is that someone else will move in there and pass him by. He'll be left with his dream while the other guy will be getting on with the practical reality of his career.

You would think this is the exception. In my experience it's not.

On the point of connections, it's all about connections not just in Aer Lingus. In fact I am one of the few people I know who did it without connections. What I had was timing and luck. That's good but connections are better. You still have to meet the standards but having someone point you in the right direction is always a help.

lufties · 15-08-2012 2:17pm

I worked for EI in recent years but not as a pilot..I remember as a kid looking at that ad on tv in the 80's and how it was all romanticised..it is a nice company to work for but its not as glamorous as it's made out to be, long hours and nightshifts working out in all types of weather, the politics of the place can grind you down too if you let it get to you.

I sacrificed working there to head off work abroad, send haven't looked back since.

Bottom line working with EI is not the be all and end all..there are plenty of other airlines out there.

AL Cadet programme

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