AL Cadet programme

Paxi_R6

nabanoba wrote: »

Hey all,

I've heard rumour that Aer Lingus are set to open up a new cadetship. Anyone have any info on this or are my sources wrong?

Sometime in 2013 and Cadets would start training 2014 . What I know from one of the training cadets for EI that four guys picked were 30-32 , Which Is stupid for so many reasons business wise , should be hiring younger lads that would have an extra 10 years to service to EI . British Airways are taking cadets this month apply for that .

basill

Thats a stupid comment to make and its illegal for AL to discriminate in that manner. Having a mix of ages will suit the company in many ways.

The current retirement age for pilots in AL is 60. 28 years of service would provide more than a return on ALs investment.

In anycase ICAO has us currently retiring at 65 but I would guess that in the next 10-15 years it would go out even further.

Xpro

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

Sometime in 2013 and Cadets would start training 2014 . What I know from one of the training cadets for EI that four guys picked were 30-32 , Which Is stupid for so many reasons business wise , should be hiring younger lads that would have an extra 10 years to service to EI . British Airways are taking cadets this month apply for that .

No age limit with BA either. Young is not always the best:)

bombs away

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

Sometime in 2013 and Cadets would start training 2014 . What I know from one of the training cadets for EI that four guys picked were 30-32 , Which Is stupid for so many reasons business wise , should be hiring younger lads that would have an extra 10 years to service to EI . British Airways are taking cadets this month apply for that .

Considering the fact that "younger" guys would more than likely feck off somewhere else as soon as they got experience on type it makes perfect sense to me why they would take some older cadets.

LeftBase

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

What I know from one of the training cadets for EI that four guys picked were 30-32 , Which Is stupid for so many reasons business wise , should be hiring younger lads that would have an extra 10 years to service to EI . British Airways are taking cadets this month apply for that .

The older age bracket was due in part to Aer Lingus seeing University degrees no matter how unrelated to aviation as a plus. There were a few with Masters in Accounting and Business that were taken on. That would pitch the minimum acceptable person in their mid 20s.

The one thing that I have heard labelled "stupid" the most is the fact they took some guys that are not Irish and who will clearly be flying for BA in a few years time!:rolleyes:

The whole cadetship idea is a financial offsetting move by Aer Lingus. They take on these cadets to cover the rosters and improve capacity a little bit. It solves the rostering difficulties that pilots were having and helps Aer Lingus cover the summer schedule without having to worry about pilots striking over rostering. It also helps them to man their bases in Gatwick and Belfast for a certain known period of time. The fact that a lot of those taken had no flight hours at all suggests that flying is not an ingrained passion in some of them and their application for the cadetship was based on the fact that they saw it as a nice earner or career progression opportunity. That seems to upset people however it should not. People with that mentality will move on eventually and open up spaces for others to fill. A lot will bugger off but that loss to Aer Lingus is less than the loss they would make through not having enough pilots to operate flights.

Aer Lingus recruits a fair bit under the radar in 2s and 3s. I was recently told by a Captain in my company to go have a chat with the Aer Lingus Base management people at Gatwick because other Irish A320 rated FOs from the company have "got a phonecall" asking if they would be interested in an interview in the past while no DE campaign was open or a week or 2 before one opened.

Anybody who wants a job in Aer Lingus has to play the waiting/jet hour building game!

Paxi_R6

I would hire younger guys , People who have masters and so on could feck off after awhile to a Job that pays more who Know's ?, People in there 30s getting cadetships is stupid ! I thought the whole point of cadetships was to give a chance to the young lads just finished school or in college , Not people who most likely had a Career underway already , I'm not heartless though fairplay to them who were picked in there 30s at least shows age is not a factor and there Dream Career can be achievable .

As for me personally If offered a cadetship with BA I stay loyal to BA no switching ! EI looks tad bit uncertain with Mr.MoL wanting to takeoff over shop , If that were to happen Bye Bye EI cadetships .

The guys taken that are British are from NI one I know of anyway , Most cadets taken on studied In Britain . If there Based in Belfast they are most likely to stay with EI , as two guys that are cadets for EI were also offered BA too doubt they would switch (don't hold me to that) .

The Crack with the roster during the summer is 5 days on 1 day off (I think) so there short on Pilots EI . Them People who get "The Call" most likely train in Jerez or oxford and EI get references on who they could hire , a few work for smaller European airlines then might get offered an Interview .

MoeJay

Anyone who wants a job in Aer Lingus would be better off not reading this thread!

Bearcat

MoeJay wrote: »

Anyone who wants a job in Aer Lingus would be better off not reading this thread!

But sure everyone thrives on "gossip" here. ....that's half the fun:D

NewSigGuy

Where are Suits and XWB when you need them??

Xpro

NewSigGuy wrote: »

Where are Suits and XWB when you need them??

Lol.. Still here i think but under different name now.

basill

Anyone who wants a job in Aer Lingus would be better off not reading this thread!

Agreed. Perhaps those posting with rumours and innuendo from other airlines crew rooms could find another place to play. A small number of direct entries will be joining (ex hold pool) shortly. Would have been a much bigger batch but unfortunately we didn't win the LHR slots.

Any further expansion will depend on seeing off the FR bid (more than likely) and then seeing what happens with the EY tie up.

aerhead

Can anybody confirm/deny rumours 2 cadets have dropped out and 1 cadet has been dismissed for not disclosing their CPL?

LeftBase

aerhead wrote: »

Can anybody confirm/deny rumours 2 cadets have dropped out and 1 cadet has been dismissed for not disclosing their CPL?

I know there have been drop outs. However I cant imagine a CPL would make it past any checks done with the IAA. I know personally of a few guys who were denied after group interview by email due to the fact they had sat and passed some ATPL exams already(it was stated in the email), and Aer Lingus were able to find that out without them saying.

Pilotdude5

I had all my ATPL's passed and hourbuilding done but didn't get past the group interview either. I only received a generic email saying I was unsuccessful though. I may sound bitter but its hard hearing people getting rejected due to their training. If a group of people were going for a Dentistry position, I don't think commercial Pilots would be chosen over Dentistry students with some experience.

aerhead

LeftBase wrote: »

I know there have been drop outs. However I cant imagine a CPL would make it past any checks done with the IAA. I know personally of a few guys who were denied after group interview by email due to the fact they had sat and passed some ATPL exams already(it was stated in the email), and Aer Lingus were able to find that out without them saying.

Unless their CPL was held with CAA?

I had all my ATPL's passed and hourbuilding done but didn't get past the group interview either. I only received a generic email saying I was unsuccessful though. I may sound bitter but its hard hearing people getting rejected due to their training. If a group of people were going for a Dentistry position, I don't think commercial Pilots would be chosen over Dentistry students with some experience.

I can understand your frustration. I'm not talking about interview stages though. I read on the other aviation forum that one of the cadets that made it to Spain had the previous training done. Shouldn't hold you back but if you lie I suppose whatever profession you're in it probably ain't gona look good that you did that.

Pilotdude5

aerhead wrote: »

I can understand your frustration. I'm not talking about interview stages though. I read on the other aviation forum that one of the cadets that made it to Spain had the previous training done. Shouldn't hold you back but if you lie I suppose whatever profession you're in it probably ain't gona look good that you did that.

Yes lying would definitely be a big no-no. I brought all my ATPL results and PPL licence with me on the day.

LeftBase

Pilotdude5 wrote: »

I had all my ATPL's passed and hourbuilding done but didn't get past the group interview either. I only received a generic email saying I was unsuccessful though. I may sound bitter but its hard hearing people getting rejected due to their training. If a group of people were going for a Dentistry position, I don't think commercial Pilots would be chosen over Dentistry students with some experience.

Well that is the age old argument I suppose. If Aer Lingus wanted experiance they would have gone for a DE campaign and not a cadetship. Going through an FTO gives you an insight and understanding and perhaps a knowledge of the playing field as far as pay/condition go that Aer Lingus did not want their cadets aware of before selection!;)

aerhead wrote: »

Unless their CPL was held with CAA?


I can understand your frustration. I'm not talking about interview stages though. I read on the other aviation forum that one of the cadets that made it to Spain had the previous training done. Shouldn't hold you back but if you lie I suppose whatever profession you're in it probably ain't gona look good that you did that.

It's still on the JAA database I'd imagine.

This is all rumour sadly and until there are hard facts you cannot say either way. All I know on the subject of the cadets in Jerez is through a guy who just left there and said that the Cadets mentioned several drop outs. I was also told that the resulting pilot crop scarcely justified the investment Aer Lingus put in.

beerbaron1234

I have been watching this thread since its formation but never posted as i had applied for the cadetship and sadly was unsuccessful, however i have now managed to get a loan finally after many years trying to be able to fund myself in the training. I went to FTE only 2 weeks ago for assessment and am now awaiting a date to start training. In my interview i was asked about my aer lingus application and I was told that all 20 are still here split into 2 classes and are still there, I spoke to some of them in passing at the bar and around campus. seems like a nice place, apparently they have diamonds coming very soon, i was hoping to see them but all they had was a sim when i was there.

So basically to put the latest rumour to bed as of 2 weeks ago all 20 aer lingus cadets are still in FTE,
there are loads of other cadets there too. even libyian cadets which took me by surprise considering the circumstances there but good to see a country rebuilding itself

nabanoba

beerbaron1234 wrote: »

I have been watching this thread since its formation but never posted as i had applied for the cadetship and sadly was unsuccessful, however i have now managed to get a loan finally after many years trying to be able to fund myself in the training. I went to FTE only 2 weeks ago for assessment and am now awaiting a date to start training. In my interview i was asked about my aer lingus application and I was told that all 20 are still here split into 2 classes and are still there, I spoke to some of them in passing at the bar and around campus. seems like a nice place, apparently they have diamonds coming very soon, i was hoping to see them but all they had was a sim when i was there.

So basically to put the latest rumour to bed as of 2 weeks ago all 20 aer lingus cadets are still in FTE,
there are loads of other cadets there too. even libyian cadets which took me by surprise considering the circumstances there but good to see a country rebuilding itself

Hey Beerbaron,

I am in a similar position to yourself currently looking at different schools around Europe to train in. I was just wondering why FTE? I've been looking at a lot of schools and it looks to me like FTE is the second most expensive behind OAA and doesn't seem to offer anything that you can't get in other schools for 30-40,000 less. Yet it seems like a very popular school, excuse my ignorance, but is there something I'm missing about the place?

aerhead

If you can afford to be without employment for a while once finished then all well and good. At the minute it seems to be a bit of a risk when you're not sponsored.

basill

So basically to put the latest rumour to bed as of 2 weeks ago all 20 aer lingus cadets are still in FTE

We love rumours, scandal and innuendo at work. But given that there has been nothing doing the rounds about any of the cadets being let go then I would say its an urban myth.

A319er

20 still there out of 20 but why ruin a good thread...


Anyway speaking as someone who just financed one kid via the P2F route including TR on A320 , the wholeprocess is frought with chancers and disapointments but thankfully a secure RHS on EI was gratefully snapped up a couple years ok and over wellover,thats well over, 50 have joined the flight deck since then PLUS the current cadet class of 20.

If flying is your dream then you have to go for it BUT be realistic , its expensive and jobs are not easy to find and its one industry where anyone with a vested interest in taking your money will smother you with tales of wealth and great life style......those days are gone .

but best of luck , IMHO get a degree first .....I keep reading about all these pilotless planes ........god help us all

Stovepipe

Hi there,
From what I've heard, one or two got a flea in their ears about pass rates but no-one has been chopped yet.

regards
Stovepipe

aerhead

Clearly somebody has been sending around some untruths so. Do you know if they've had to retake exams? Do you know what sort of passes are required of them? Just curious as to how the course works and how the guys are finding it.

beerbaron1234

nabanoba wrote: »

Hey Beerbaron,

I am in a similar position to yourself currently looking at different schools around Europe to train in. I was just wondering why FTE? I've been looking at a lot of schools and it looks to me like FTE is the second most expensive behind OAA and doesn't seem to offer anything that you can't get in other schools for 30-40,000 less. Yet it seems like a very popular school, excuse my ignorance, but is there something I'm missing about the place?

I chose FTE for a number of reasons.
>weather
>updating fleet
>acommadation and food on campus (albeit not great)
>And Aer Lingus sent their cadets there so there is a great chance of getting in DE there because they know the FTE system

The last one is the main reason, i have had a look at the other places but that why I went to FTE because EI did!

aerhead

beerbaron1234 wrote: »

The last one is the main reason, i have had a look at the other places but that why I went to FTE because EI did!

I wonder does that reason form part of EI's bargaining power when in negotiations with these schools. It's clearly an advert for the school and must be worth something.

You'll still be up against it even going to FTE. It all depends on the climate when you're done. A lot of Irish guys coming out all the time.

bluecode

beerbaron1234 wrote: »

I chose FTE for a number of reasons.
>weather
>updating fleet
>acommadation and food on campus (albeit not great)
>And Aer Lingus sent their cadets there so there is a great chance of getting in DE there because they know the FTE system

The last one is the main reason, i have had a look at the other places but that why I went to FTE because EI did!

Don't have any illusions that will really help you get the elusive job. It won't do any harm. But it's no guarantee. There are a lot of factors employers use in choosing pilots. The school is only one. Plenty of unemployed FTE and OAA graduates out there.

And let's face it, Ryanair is your most likely future employer, sorry contractor and they really don't care.

In my experience there are lots of new pilots out there desperately trying to get the start. I feel sorry for them because I was there once. It's not easy even if you have FTE on your CV.

nabanoba

beerbaron1234 wrote: »

I chose FTE for a number of reasons.
>weather
>updating fleet
>acommadation and food on campus (albeit not great)
>And Aer Lingus sent their cadets there so there is a great chance of getting in DE there because they know the FTE system

The last one is the main reason, i have had a look at the other places but that why I went to FTE because EI did!

Thanks for the reply Beerbaron,

I'm not sure how much training at FTE would increase my chances of a job at Aer Lingus. 40 grand seems to be a big gamble on that off chance to me. I'll grant you the good weather, but there's plenty of other reputable schools on the Med for much cheaper, for example Egnatia Aviation in Greece.

LeftBase

beerbaron1234 wrote: »

I chose FTE for a number of reasons.
>weather
>updating fleet
>acommadation and food on campus (albeit not great)
>And Aer Lingus sent their cadets there so there is a great chance of getting in DE there because they know the FTE system

The last one is the main reason, i have had a look at the other places but that why I went to FTE because EI did!

The FTE system being under the larger JAA system that has strict guidelines, meaning that the areas airlines care about are very much standardised across schools for safety reasons.

It's that sort of attitude that allows these schools to charge the comical prices they do. It's a simple formula. Put some airline logos on your site, propagate falsehoods to people who are not up enough on the industry to know better and there you have it, somebody who will hand over the bones of 100k to you. It's a remarkable scam it really is! What makes it more remarkable is that we are still having this discussion after PTC went bust! At the FLYER exhibition in London I spoke to people from various schools including FTE pretending to be a newbie and to be honest I had cramps in my face and stomach from trying not to collapse in fits of laughter at some of the stuff they came out with.

Aer Lingus cannot say that FTE is better or worse than any other schools. If they were to say they think FTE is better than NFC or Atlantic for example then that would be a slight on the IAA who oversee standards there and by doing that they also slight themselves as they are overseen by the IAA too. Schools will sell you these lines about "oh Aer Lingus or BA train their pilots here" as a way to get you hooked in. Usually the reason they are there doesn't go past pure cash! The school offered them the best deal for the cadetship and they took it. The little piece of paper that says the JAA are accrediting them as an FTO validates their quality of training to be good enough for any airline.

beerbaron1234

LeftBase wrote: »

The FTE system being under the larger JAA system that has strict guidelines, meaning that the areas airlines care about are very much standardised across schools for safety reasons.

It's that sort of attitude that allows these schools to charge the comical prices they do. It's a simple formula. Put some airline logos on your site, propagate falsehoods to people who are not up enough on the industry to know better and there you have it, somebody who will hand over the bones of 100k to you. It's a remarkable scam it really is! What makes it more remarkable is that we are still having this discussion after PTC went bust! At the FLYER exhibition in London I spoke to people from various schools including FTE pretending to be a newbie and to be honest I had cramps in my face and stomach from trying not to collapse in fits of laughter at some of the stuff they came out with.

Aer Lingus cannot say that FTE is better or worse than any other schools. If they were to say they think FTE is better than NFC or Atlantic for example then that would be a slight on the IAA who oversee standards there and by doing that they also slight themselves as they are overseen by the IAA too. Schools will sell you these lines about "oh Aer Lingus or BA train there pilots here" as a way to get you hooked in. Usually the reason they are there doesn't go past pure cash! The school offered them the best deal for the cadetship and they took it. The little piece of paper that says the JAA are accrediting them as an FTO validates their quality of training to be good enough for any airline.

It is the way it works sadly!!! Airlines can afford to be very picky about the DE they choose. so to be at the same school as the airlines own cadets does have an affect on the decision to even look at your cv. I know guys that went to other schools and are finding it very hard to get airlines to even look at their CV because they don't know anything about the school!
Its a sad reality I know but it is a reality. I know so people who are well up in the airline industry and these are the recommendations they have given me.

lets say Aer lingus get 2 CV's for DE on their desk one has gone to the same school as their own cadets so they know what way and how well (or badly) he has been trained and the other has gone to some school that they never heard of! Who do you think will interest them slightly more! Humans tend to stick to what they know!!