AL Cadet programme

el tel · 04-08-2011 11:27pm

BostonB wrote: »

That not true of most of the EI pilots I know, most of whom came through the earlier cadetships. Almost none had any hours previously. Back then the more flying hours seemed to be a disadvantage. TBH maturity and high achievement in exams, seemed to be more important. Indeed it was rare that a club flyers, or club instructors that I knew got in. That was EI, not other airlines. Seemed like they didn't anyone with prefomed ideas or habits.

That said that was then, could be entirely different now. I have no idea. Thats simply my opinion, and perspective. The reality may have been different.

You are not wrong.

In my group of 16, three had flying experience of 50-180 hours or so, the rest ab initio. I think one or two or the previously experienced flyers played down their hours at interview, as I think the consideration was that much more than 30 hours would count against you. I would reckon that of the group only a couple of us would have went all the way had we not been on a cadetship.

JPkelly · 04-08-2011 11:37pm

xflyer wrote: »

(they) have an option for 'pending' in the results section.

That's actually not true mate. I've filled out the application 100% and there is NO such option anywhere.

However, for people in my boat, You can do 2 things:
There's section with Yes/No to if you got C in maths(ord)/English

What you can do is just say no and continue anyway,
Or you can lie....and say you have.

For the other grades you don't even need to say you got (will get) Just that^

I won't lie. Instead I have my application ready to go, but am going to leave it til the last second on the very slim chance they expand the closing date a few days

XWB · 04-08-2011 11:41pm

el tel wrote: »

You are not wrong.

In my group of 16, three had flying experience of 50-180 hours or so, the rest ab initio. I think one or two or the previously experienced flyers played down their hours at interview, as I think the consideration was that much more than 30 hours would count against you. I would reckon that of the group only a couple of us would have went all the way had we not been on a cadetship.

My experiance would have been a little bit different in both my own cadet course and the appearance various unsupervised children who kept showing up in the right seat...

I knew a lot of former Air Corps officers in Aer Lingus who had an awful lot of hours on the clock. There were fresh faced youths but a fair few who had previous too. From what I hear on the grapevine your efforts in the context of the recession will count. If you have attempted to forge some sort of foundation, be that theory exams, PPLs or just reading books and gathering some tech knowledge. In this course EI want people who really REALLY want to be part o the company because the old campaigners are just that...and the new guys that have come in in the last 5 years are all leaving for BA, Virgin or gone the Lawrence of Arabia route. I was invited back to fly as a FO on FO intro wage for the summer...i told them to f**k off!

directPEPOD · 04-08-2011 11:42pm

Question on the LC issue though.. If they looked at your date of birth and saw that you had results before you were due them, wouldn't that flag up?

pepod

XWB · 04-08-2011 11:45pm

JPkelly wrote: »

I won't lie. Instead I have my application ready to go, but am going to leave it til the last second on the very slim chance they expand the closing date a few days

It will be a week before those coffee drinking charlatans in HR get off their backside and start reading applications....

JPkelly · 04-08-2011 11:57pm

XWB wrote: »

It will be a week before those coffee drinking charlatans in HR get off their backside and start reading applications....

Haha. Well hopefully there's some people complaining and they extend it until the 17th. If it was back in June or early July, fair enough, but 3 days before, thats just horrible. I've heard that their HR is a shambles and..apparently using outdated equipment, like white boards? Anyway...

brotherrabbit · 05-08-2011 12:00am

so im guessing you sent off the application and heard nothing back?

JPkelly · 05-08-2011 12:01am

directPEPOD wrote: »

Question on the LC issue though.. If they looked at your date of birth and saw that you had results before you were due them, wouldn't that flag up?

pepod

Not your date of birth (because I'm 19, I did TY) I say it's if you start filling in your results when you haven't got any, that's when it would flag up

joey12 · 05-08-2011 12:12am

Hey guys!, so when it asks you about projects what are they looking for? like all sorts of projects? coursework in college, fundraising, campaigns etc? or should i just mention the academic ones?

I assume they want projects that show your a leader, organized, works under pressure etc, so a good range of everything?

donkey balls · 05-08-2011 12:16am

bladeruner wrote: »

There is no payscale in FR, once you are at that rank that's your pay full stop, stop listening to dinosaurs from EI that havnt a clue what other airlines are like.
Fr are ( despite recent management propaganda) as usual desperate for captains and they want you in the left seat as soon as possible.

I have a mate flying for FR and from memory you need 3000hrs TT for a command position also the 30k you pay towards the TR can be wrote off as a training expense as your self employed via brookfield for 5yrs,I don't know what the pay scales are in EI for a FO/Capt but I do know what they are for FR as I have a copy of a pilots contract.;)

directPEPOD · 05-08-2011 12:20am

joey12 wrote: »

Hey guys!, so when it asks you about projects what are they looking for? like all sorts of projects? coursework in college, fundraising, campaigns etc? or should i just mention the academic ones?

I assume they want projects that show your a leader, organized, works under pressure etc, so a good range of everything?

Unfortunately none of us can tell you what you've done in your life so far! I found it difficult applying for jobs thinking of activities like this but it will come eventually. Its only 250 words you have to write!

pepod

XWB · 05-08-2011 12:29am

directPEPOD wrote: »

Unfortunately none of us can tell you what you've done in your life so far! I found it difficult applying for jobs thinking of activities like this but it will come eventually. Its only 250 words you have to write!

pepod

They limit you to 250 words? Wouldnt want to be too qualified then would you..?

directPEPOD · 05-08-2011 12:32am

That's what I was told - I suspect this will give the 'over-qualified' people something to think about as well as primarily giving a shorter summary for the HR people to skim over.

pepod

XWB · 05-08-2011 12:36am

directPEPOD wrote: »

That's what I was told - I suspect this will give the 'over-qualified' people something to think about as well as primarily giving a shorter summary for the HR people to skim over.

pepod

What ever happened to creative writing?

From memory the "achievements" bit was more for sports and personal info, less academic.

joey12 · 05-08-2011 12:37am

ha, it is hard to condense to 250 words alright

donkey balls · 05-08-2011 12:42am

When applying to FR it's a one page C.V:eek: they require must be the norm for pilot recruitment.

XWB · 05-08-2011 12:44am

joey12 wrote: »

ha, it is hard to condense to 250 words alright

Just keep it in the box, you'll be safe that way

xflyer · 05-08-2011 12:45am

That's actually not true mate. I've filled out the application 100% and there is NO such option anywhere.

Interesting! While you are correct now there is no such category as 'Pending' any more. But let me assure you it was there because when you asked the original question. I went to the form and looked for myself. The pending option was there. But it's gone now. Clearly it was modified. Also if I'm not mistaken they modified the section for external exams too. I saw queries on PPRuNe for that too.

Clearly the feedback they got including queries from the likes of MOL caused someone to modify the form. Maybe he reads this forum. Hi there!

So sorry JP, clearly if they went to the trouble of removing the pending box, it seems pretty clear that they don't want this year's crop applying.

XWBs your response is interesting, this caught my eye.

In this course EI want people who really REALLY want to be part o the company because the old campaigners are just that...and the new guys that have come in in the last 5 years are all leaving for BA, Virgin or gone the Lawrence of Arabia route.

There are many out there who really REALLY want to be part of the company. Half of Ryanair for a start and almost every aspiring Irish pilot me included would happily see out their career in Aer Lingus. But like most others I will never get the chance because of the difficulty of getting through all the hoops put in the not least the psychometric tests. Also there's the well known but always denied preference for integrated course graduates.

All of this means Aer Lingus is doing all the hard work for the recruiters in BA, Virgin and the Sandbox. An Aer Lingus pilot must be a shoo in almost anywhere. Is Aer Lingus shooting themselves in the foot by demanding a certain type of applicant?

Meanwhile the likes of Ryanair just gets on with it. They don't have low standards. They just accept that pilots will move on and prepare for that eventuality.

There is no reason to believe that cadets will be anymore loyal once they are few years in. The attractions of the big money and an earlier left seat will draw some away even though today they really, really want to be Aer Lingus.

XWB · 05-08-2011 1:38am

xflyer wrote: »

XWBs your response is interesting, this caught my eye.There are many out there who really REALLY want to be part of the company. Half of Ryanair for a start and almost every aspiring Irish pilot me included would happily see out their career in Aer Lingus. But like most others I will never get the chance because of the difficulty of getting through all the hoops put in the not least the psychometric tests. Also there's the well known but always denied preference for integrated course graduates.

All of this means Aer Lingus is doing all the hard work for the recruiters in BA, Virgin and the Sandbox. An Aer Lingus pilot must be a shoo in almost anywhere. Is Aer Lingus shooting themselves in the foot by demanding a certain type of applicant?

Meanwhile the likes of Ryanair just gets on with it. They don't have low standards. They just accept that pilots will move on and prepare for that eventuality.

There is no reason to believe that cadets will be anymore loyal once they are few years in. The attractions of the big money and an earlier left seat will draw some away even though today they really, really want to be Aer Lingus.

Good to know people are paying attention!

Well when I started Aer Lingus was the only airline there was really if you were Irish. Any wish to go East would have caused a considerable armed response...(older pilots will chuckle at that one)

Back then the expectations of Irish society proved a big enough hoop to get through as pilots were like astronaughts.
Slowly but surely Aer Lingus is becoming aware that it is doing it all wrong and from a pilot's perspective a "psychometric genius" rarely has a very good personality. They tend to very arrogant and cock of the walk and unpopular with their fellow pilots. In the last 5 years of my career I noticed the new guys were not like the older ones. They were rich kids who had bought their way through flight school and they were not liked by older Captains. Many would contradict you on a regular basis or make requests regarding taxi and approach procedure without asking you. I had one ask for the "slam dunk" at Schipol because "he saw it on tv"...:mad:....granted I was a 330 skipper my last year(i yo yoed a bit between fleets in the last few years) and didnt have much cause to fly with the new intake.
From what I hear from some of the standards guys regarding recruitment in general is that nobody seems good enough. Aer Lingus is fearful and a tad paranoid now that type rating a guy on an a320 or a330 he will turn round when he gets it ticked on his ATP and leg it off to fly the 330 for Etihad etc(and that did happen). There was also a guy who retired off a cadetship(fully funded by Aer Lingus) after 8 years to take a very well paid job in an FTO......I could write for hours about what Aer Lingus is like but I'd bore you!

MightyDucks · 05-08-2011 2:16am

Has anybody heard of someone getting into Aer lingus with just the minimum leaving cert results? Had too much of a good time in school.... I have PPl exams done if that helps?

M.O.L. · 05-08-2011 2:56am

GKJK wrote: »

While I really feel sorry for some of the lads who missed on LC ground and age I have to say though that it would be hard to swallow for a guy who has spent a few years working away toward his dream to have some guy cruise out of school and onto the cadetship. Could be a possible reason they excluded this years LC. They want people who have worked hard in whatever way toward the dream.

Also a question for some of the guys more in the know. Over what time period will interviews/assesments etc take place? They say they want to start late '11 early '12 so that would suggest they want it all wrapped up by this november or so. Bearing in mind some people may have jobs and cant just announce they're not coming in tomorrow...people would need a month or more to get affairs in order before heading off.

Yeah but some people that finished the LC this year are not quite the average "school boy" what you perceive them to be.

In my case I'm going on 20 already. I know lads in my year in their late 20's matter of fact. Im still awaiting on my LC results in the next 12 days. Plus I have tones of flying experience. Not being cocky but I'd say Ive double the amount of hours than hundreds of other applicants.

The question why they won't take in 2011 applicants remains a mystery. In my opinion it was a marketing mistake. They advertised the programme at an earlier time than previous cadetships. And set the deadline before the 17th of Aug. Im properly wrong but in nearly every other cadetship the current year LC candidates were allowed to apply. Just why not this year in 2011 ? More likely the last one before economic recovery.

And for they guy that thinks I'm telling fibs about the HR response. Im not. I got an e-mail back from the HR department stating

" Dear Robert,

Unfortunately this year's leaving certificates will not be applicable for
the programme.

Aer Lingus have yet to make any decision on whether or not this programme
will be run again in the future.

We hope this mail answers the questions you had.

Kind Regards,

The Aer Lingus Support Team"

They properly said no thanks to at least a good few mature LC applicants ready to go with PPLs.

xflyer · 05-08-2011 9:49am

Back then the expectations of Irish society proved a big enough hoop to get through as pilots were like astronaughts.

So true.

Great insights there XWB, confirms what I know and hear. Presumably these cadetships are an attempt to breed their own as it were. Harking back to the old days when getting into Aer Lingus in any capacity was the holy grail of jobs.

Not any more. Aer Lingus needs to be careful not to become the best source of well trained pilots for the world's airlines.

XWB · 05-08-2011 2:55pm

xflyer wrote: »

So true.

Great insights there XWB, confirms what I know and hear. Presumably these cadetships are an attempt to breed their own as it were. Harking back to the old days when getting into Aer Lingus in any capacity was the holy grail of jobs.

Not any more. Aer Lingus needs to be careful not to become the best source of well trained pilots for the world's airlines.

Well Aer Lingus guys are in demand. There were rumours of head hunting by Virgin, and when i retired last august I was offered various contracts by airlines within a few weeks. I did a bit of contract cargo work on the 747(one of many ratings the old school Aer Lingus pilot had) in Feb.

If I could advise the nippers on what I think is happening here, from my various barstool chats with serving and past pilots. I believe that comparing this cadetship to others isnt really a valid line to follow. Back in the day you could apply and sure "why not" they'd take you. Nowadays employment across the board in all sectors is very much "touchie feely" and psychology and snake oils, the best applicants gets the job. If I am to throw my 10 cents in here I would say the will look at the guys with hours or some aviation related tale to tell. The rest is for the others to fight out. Expect a long bond that may handcuff you well into your 40s. Chances are at 40 the wife will be settled in and the kids will be at school and you wont be saddling up the camel anytime soon...

kona · 05-08-2011 7:27pm

XWB wrote: »

Well Aer Lingus guys are in demand. There were rumours of head hunting by Virgin, and when i retired last august I was offered various contracts by airlines within a few weeks. I did a bit of contract cargo work on the 747(one of many ratings the old school Aer Lingus pilot had) in Feb.

If I could advise the nippers on what I think is happening here, from my various barstool chats with serving and past pilots. I believe that comparing this cadetship to others isnt really a valid line to follow. Back in the day you could apply and sure "why not" they'd take you. Nowadays employment across the board in all sectors is very much "touchie feely" and psychology and snake oils, the best applicants gets the job. If I am to throw my 10 cents in here I would say the will look at the guys with hours or some aviation related tale to tell. The rest is for the others to fight out. Expect a long bond that may handcuff you well into your 40s. Chances are at 40 the wife will be settled in and the kids will be at school and you wont be saddling up the camel anytime soon...

You sir are a legend, some of the most sense Ive ever seen posted on boards. ie .

XWB · 05-08-2011 7:58pm

kona wrote: »

You sir are a legend, some of the most sense Ive ever seen posted on boards. ie .

Haha I try. Just all bear in mind that the old cadetship was to replenish the ranks of the legions vast in Aer Lingus. This one has more the feeling of a panic buy...like women in the january sales,except they are buying pilot's on hire purchase but the shop pays them to take the stuff...and pays them over a 20 year period. They seem to want to catch the guys who will apply DE in 2 years now at the root so they can train them to a standard yes, but more importantly for Aer Lingus they can wreck your finacial situation and make you hopelessly tied to the company!
Just remember the name's Bond!

..and you best remember that for 20 years..

eurokev · 05-08-2011 8:07pm

XWB wrote: »

Haha I try. Just all bear in mind that the old cadetship was to replenish the ranks of the legions vast in Aer Lingus. This one has more the feeling of a panic buy...like women in the january sales,except they are buying pilot's on hire purchase but the shop pays them to take the stuff...and pays them over a 20 year period. They seem to want to catch the guys who will apply DE in 2 years now at the root so they can train them to a standard yes, but more importantly for Aer Lingus they can wreck your finacial situation and make you hopelessly tied to the company!
Just remember the name's Bond! ..and you best remember that for 20 years..

But what does a pilot earn. I mean like it cant be under 50k a year surely. A guy coming out qualified as a pilot at 20-25 and 'walking' into a job if they reach the standard. would unlikely have any real commitments. Meaning the 'loan' could be paid back in a realitively short period of time. Then its all hahaha hohoho from there on in

bladeruner · 05-08-2011 9:36pm

XWB wrote: »

kona wrote: »

You sir are a legend, some of the most sense Ive ever seen posted on boards. ie .

Haha I try. Just all bear in mind that the old cadetship was to replenish the ranks of the legions vast in Aer Lingus. This one has more the feeling of a panic buy...like women in the january sales,except they are buying pilot's on hire purchase but the shop pays them to take the stuff...and pays them over a 20 year period. They seem to want to catch the guys who will apply DE in 2 years now at the root so they can train them to a standard yes, but more importantly for Aer Lingus they can wreck your finacial situation and make you hopelessly tied to the company!
Just remember the name's Bond! ..and you best remember that for 20 years..

Pure speculation from me but the old cadetship bond was about 5 years but the cadets paid none of the training costs , this time the individual will pay some maybe most of the costs so if the bond is over 5 years I would be highly surprised.
I'll leave myself open to correction/humble pie but I would eat my Stetson if it's over 10 and talk of 20 years is just insane.

MoeJay · 05-08-2011 10:26pm

The situation is that nobody, including Aer Lingus themselves most likely, knows the specifics of what the package is going to be. (And I have sought the details!)

Bottom line, if you can and if you're interested -apply. No matter what your background is! If you're lucky enough to be made an offer - then you have a decision to make!

If the lack of details puts you off, don't apply. There are many ways to get a career in aviation!

What we have had up to now is pure (and sometimes wild) speculation...right up to the 20 year bonds :rolleyes:

Aer Lingus is not the worst place in the world to work if you are a pilot. The total remuneration package is pretty reasonable.

Threads on internet bulletin boards should not be the deciding factor whether or not you apply.

Best of luck to all that do!

XWB · 05-08-2011 10:36pm

bladeruner wrote: »

Pure speculation from me but the old cadetship bond was about 5 years but the cadets paid none of the training costs , this time the individual will pay some maybe most of the costs so if the bond is over 5 years I would be highly surprised.
I'll leave myself open to correction/humble pie but I would eat my Stetson if it's over 10 and talk of 20 years is just insane.

Yes but from what I hear Aer Lingus will get you the money from the bank and to the best of my knowledge they have already spoken to a few regarding it(a gruding old DE SFO told me this as he had to fund it all himself). That will mean you get your bank loan based on Aer Lingus paying your wage when you finish and thus pating back the bank, I also heard the notion of Aer Lingus paying the bank directly from your pay cheque so it would be deducted much the same way tax is. If you have a loan of 75K as would be the average pitch I'd say at say 400-500 a month plus interest you're looking at 15 - 20 years maybe. And if you sod off East you're on your own to pay it back and may have to pay a lump sum. When I started I was bonded for 6 years approx give or take and if you left you had to pay Aer Lingus a lump sum. Like I said, they really want to keep people in the Company

Eurokev -

But what does a pilot earn. I mean like it cant be under 50k a year surely. A guy coming out qualified as a pilot at 20-25 and 'walking' into a job if they reach the standard. would unlikely have any real commitments. Meaning the 'loan' could be paid back in a realitively short period of time. Then its all hahaha hohoho from there on in

I was on 3 figs at my peak wage, and that was during the Celtic Tiger. I was a standards examiner on the a330 and used to check the recurrents etc. I was also on the line then and doing various thother jobs. We were all double and triple jobbing in the airline. When the **** hit the fan we all had to take pay cuts and we were not happy, so we were offered a good pension plan and we left happy. Aer Lingus pay their pilots well in the long run. I dont know the figures but I'd pitch about 40K base starting and upwards from there.

Bearcat · 05-08-2011 10:53pm

XWB wrote: »

I was on 3 figs at my peak wage, and that was during the Celtic Tiger. I was a standards examiner on the a330 and used to check the recurrents etc. I was also on the line then and doing various thother jobs. We were all double and triple jobbing in the airline. there.

Less of the we.....

Grimacing reading.

AL Cadet programme

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