Maternal limousin bulls

RobinBanks

Hi All,

Looking to bull a few heifers this year and would like to use easy calving maternal limousin bulls. I heard Pacha 08 and Panda are good bulls to produce milky replacements, but not sure if they are recommended for heifers. I will be crossing these bulls on CHX and MAX heifers.


Thanks in advance for any replies.

vanderbadger

RobinBanks wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking to bull a few heifers this year and would like to use easy calving maternal limousin bulls. I heard Pacha 08 and Panda are good bulls to produce milky replacements, but not sure if they are recommended for heifers. I will be crossing these bulls on CHX and MAX heifers.


Thanks in advance for any replies.

palmares (PAM) according to dovea book

Bodacious

RobinBanks wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking to bull a few heifers this year and would like to use easy calving maternal limousin bulls. I heard Pacha 08 and Panda are good bulls to produce milky replacements, but not sure if they are recommended for heifers. I will be crossing these bulls on CHX and MAX heifers.


Thanks in advance for any replies.

Fl22 archibeau is leaving nice cattle after him and has good milk in his pedigree but don't they say you should always breed your replacements from the harder calved bulls as they'll be bigger wider animals ... Fl22 would go against this theory!!! Nino was a great lim replacement bull if you can get him but wouldn't be suitable for heifers

Tora Bora

vanderbadger wrote: »

palmares (PAM) according to dovea book

If you ask me, PAM heifers have about as much milk as pretty much any other limousine or charolais for that matter, assuming the mother is up to 3/4 bred or more lim or char.
Most of my cows gone over 85% continental at this stage. Char / Lim crosses and Lim / Char crosses. Bit of shorthorn in them from way back.

I'm giving Simmental AI this year, to try to get a bit more milk back in the herd. Probably get all bull calves next year:eek:

pakalasa

If you're using Pg or Munster use FL21. They recommend him as a good bull for replacements. He is hard calving enough but will produce heifers that calve easy. Not great on docility though, so only use him on quiet cows.

RobinBanks

pakalasa wrote: »

If you're using Pg or Munster use FL21. They recommend him as a good bull for replacements. He is hard calving enough but will produce heifers that calve easy. Not great on docility though, so only use him on quiet cows.

I actually used him earlier in the year on a BB heifer. I asked the A.I man to give an easy calving LM bull to her. When I came home from work and seen the A.I docket I nearly went through the roof. At the time I thought it was a recipe for disaster. Giving a relatively hard calving bull to a BB heifer. Lucky for me she is not over muscled so I might get away with it.

But I think I will use him again so if he is recommended for replacements.

bogman_bass

Dont use FL21 on Heifers. Good bull but not easy calved.

FL22 is easy calved but dont know how good he is for maternal.

OZS is proven in france for both easy calving and maternal. and I would say he's your best bet

VKG is also easy calving and polled which is a nice trait to have but dont know if he has milk

Bizzum

On paper FL22 seems to be what your looking for.
Depending on your heifer type it may be worth considering some of the other breeds like Part, BA, Sim.

RobinBanks

Bizzum wrote: »

On paper FL22 seems to be what your looking for.
Depending on your heifer type it may be worth considering some of the other breeds like Part, BA, Sim.

perhaps BA. How do they for calving difficulty. I had a bull calf this year outta a CH cow. it was a good pull

Bizzum

RobinBanks wrote: »

perhaps BA. How do they for calving difficulty.

We used a few BA namely Landais (can't get him any more) on heifers and found they calved easily.
The boys in Derrypartick used BA extensively on their herd as heifers, from memory it was one of the Eurogene ones either Jasper or Indiana.

Bitten & Hisses

Neuf and Nexen are two bulls which are supposed to be strong on milk and fertility. Potential downside of only average docility with Neut, despite being marketed as 5 star for docility at first.

reilig

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Neuf and Nexen are two bulls which are supposed to be strong on milk and fertility. Potential downside of only average docility with Neut, despite being marketed as 5 star for docility at first.

I have a neuf pedigree cow. She is the best breeder I have. Lots of milk, very docile, easy calver. She would be my best cow.

vanderbadger

just after giving a yr and half old heifer castleview casino (cwi), went on ai mans recommendation as easy calfer, looked him up on my dovea book and he was 4 star for ease of calving, looked him up on ICBF and its a diff story :rolleyes:
anyway your mans advice is usually good so should be ok

bogman_bass

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Neuf and Nexen are two bulls which are supposed to be strong on milk and fertility. Potential downside of only average docility with Neut, despite being marketed as 5 star for docility at first.

But they are both bulls you have to get through the Lim Soc.
I'm guessing the OP has commercial cows and not pedigrees

RobinBanks

bogman_bass wrote: »

But they are both bulls you have to get through the Lim Soc.
I'm guessing the OP has commercial cows and not pedigrees

I have both Bogman Bass but it will be all commercial in a couple of months time. Getting rid of the dead wood. Anyway for a heifer I am not going to splash out. I will give her FL22 or an easy calving blonde for the first time.

Bitten & Hisses

vanderbadger wrote: »

just after giving a yr and half old heifer castleview casino (cwi), went on ai mans recommendation as easy calfer, looked him up on my dovea book and he was 4 star for ease of calving, looked him up on ICBF and its a diff story :rolleyes:
anyway your mans advice is usually good so should be ok

Knowing the man who bred that bull, ease of calving is high on his list of priorities, so I wouldn't get unduly worried.

Buncha Fives

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Knowing the man who bred that bull, ease of calving is high on his list of priorities, so I wouldn't get unduly worried.

Had a couple of heifers AI'd to Castleview Casino-CWI last week on the advice of the AI man (before I read this thread!!) but having looked at the calving stats im a little concerned, does anyone have any calves on the ground yet, were they difficult calvings?

vanderbadger

Buncha Fives wrote: »

Had a couple of heifers AI'd to Castleview Casino-CWI last week on the advice of the AI man (before I read this thread!!) but having looked at the calving stats im a little concerned, does anyone have any calves on the ground yet, were they difficult calvings?

she never kept after so dont know, gave him to another heifer the other day though

Buncha Fives

Roundhill Dara-RHF (Limousin) and Bolide-BZB (Parthenaise) are two bulls that I have been using quite a bit... not that high for SBV but very easy calving, BZB's SBV has risen quite a bit recently though so its a good sign I suppose!!

tim04750

Talking to dovea rep the other day seems cwi is calving a bit easier than his stats suggest, I have 6 or 7 heifers in calf to him due april,mate of mine used him previous year on heifers and had no bother with him and left real nice heifer calves but then he had nice heifers to start with.

limo_100

has anyone and stock from CVV?

Andy Gray

Interesting reading all of the inputs from various people. Easy calving maternal limo bulls aren't all that common if you want good ones. Old bulls like Malibu and Litron were easy calving and left super females behind. Hard to find those straws now though. FL22 is easy calving and throws good quality. Have a great bull calf out of him. Very growthy cattle which are ideal as replacements. Maternal figures have low reliability though. Watch his docility as well. Poor score on this. Pacha 08 (PCH) has super figures but he's E30 a straw so maybe a little much for commercial men.

If your calving heifers at 30-36 months you could use Castleview Casino (CWI). Have 4 calves born this spring out of him. Super quality. Heifers are beauties. I would warn though that the calves are a little big for heifers. Not muscled at birth but big frames with hips on the larger side. I definitely wouldn't use him calving heifers at 24 months. CWI is out of a French bull called Otan who was noted for milk.

For cows, a bull that I am using this spring is Panda (PDA). Spoke to a man with quite a few of his heifers. Super quality, wide at the hips and very quiet. He is proven in France for milk so that should be a given.

Don't overlook Simmental for replacements either. Particularly if you have very little Sim in the herd already. The cross will bring out great hybrid vigour and you'll inject size and milk. Some good bulls are Kilbride Farm Newry (KFY). Easy calving with great quality and proven figures. Heavily used by pedigree men so he must be good. Curaheen Vio (CQA). Easy calving, light boned calves but develop great power quickly. Vio is from a super bloodline with Raceview King and Hillcrest Champion in his back pedigree. Curaheen Apostle (APZ) is a test bull with NCBC. A Canadian Simmental from an easy calving pedigree but is expected to throw good quality and is from a strong maternal bloodline. His first calves I am told, were easily born and are showing great promise.

Hopefully this answers a few questions.

limo_100

Andy Gray wrote: »

Interesting reading all of the inputs from various people. Easy calving maternal limo bulls aren't all that common if you want good ones. Old bulls like Malibu and Litron were easy calving and left super females behind. Hard to find those straws now though. FL22 is easy calving and throws good quality. Have a great bull calf out of him. Very growthy cattle which are ideal as replacements. Maternal figures have low reliability though. Watch his docility as well. Poor score on this. Pacha 08 (PCH) has super figures but he's E30 a straw so maybe a little much for commercial men.

If your calving heifers at 30-36 months you could use Castleview Casino (CWI). Have 4 calves born this spring out of him. Super quality. Heifers are beauties. I would warn though that the calves are a little big for heifers. Not muscled at birth but big frames with hips on the larger side. I definitely wouldn't use him calving heifers at 24 months. CWI is out of a French bull called Otan who was noted for milk.

For cows, a bull that I am using this spring is Panda (PDA). Spoke to a man with quite a few of his heifers. Super quality, wide at the hips and very quiet. He is proven in France for milk so that should be a given.

Don't overlook Simmental for replacements either. Particularly if you have very little Sim in the herd already. The cross will bring out great hybrid vigour and you'll inject size and milk. Some good bulls are Kilbride Farm Newry (KFY). Easy calving with great quality and proven figures. Heavily used by pedigree men so he must be good. Curaheen Vio (CQA). Easy calving, light boned calves but develop great power quickly. Vio is from a super bloodline with Raceview King and Hillcrest Champion in his back pedigree. Curaheen Apostle (APZ) is a test bull with NCBC. A Canadian Simmental from an easy calving pedigree but is expected to throw good quality and is from a strong maternal bloodline. His first calves I am told, were easily born and are showing great promise.

Hopefully this answers a few questions.

did you see his panda calves?? I have a Panda heifer calf from a NSQ heifer she looks to be a smasher really increased size anyway as in height and lenght not overly wide yet but im sure she'll get broad when she gets out. Have you used the bull CVV??

Andy Gray

No. Didn't see his heifers. Hoping to at some stage though. Knowing my luck I will get a run of bulls from the heifers that i have put in calf to Panda.

Andy Gray

Roundhill Dara cattle are meant to be bloody nuts. I would stay well clear!!

Bodacious

Andy Gray wrote: »

No. Didn't see his heifers. Hoping to at some stage though. Knowing my luck I will get a run of bulls from the heifers that i have put in calf to Panda.

A buddy of mine ordered a panda straw especially for a replacement, he got 2 Heifers from the straw.. worth the E50!

limo_100

Bodacious wrote: »

A buddy of mine ordered a panda straw especially for a replacement, he got 2 Heifers from the straw.. worth the E50!

he paid a good bit for them our AI had them in his 30euro including service fee. but there worth it quality bull great quality heifer calves from him

Bizzum

So where can straws of Panda be got?

limo_100

Bizzum wrote: »

So where can straws of Panda be got?

Progressive genetics or munster but there limited

Bodacious

limo_100 wrote: »

Bizzum wrote: »

So where can straws of Panda be got?

Progressive genetics or munster but there limited

Our guy is normally 40 euro which include 2 repeats so he prob threw him extra 10 for the hassle of gettin straw etc

bogman_bass

limo_100 wrote: »

Progressive genetics or munster but there limited

by limited read "gone"

Bizzum

Bodacious wrote: »

Our guy is normally 40 euro which include 2 repeats so he prob threw him extra 10 for the hassle of gettin straw etc

Is it €40 for a straw put in the cow or just the straw?

I see the Lim soc has a nice little section on lims with milk, the high milk catalogue.

http://www.irishlimousin.com/html/sire_catalogue.html

limo_100

bogman_bass wrote: »

by limited read "gone"

and i take it very to be got again...:mad: is he dead??? what would be a good replacement for him??

redzerologhlen

limo_100 wrote: »

and i take it very to be got again...:mad: is he dead??? what would be a good replacement for him??

Did he ever come into Ireland or did they just import his straws. I assume since he was proven for milk in France he was well aged before his tadpoles hit our shores...

redzerologhlen

Bizzum wrote: »

Is it €40 for a straw put in the cow or just the straw?

I see the Lim soc has a nice little section on lims with milk, the high milk catalogue.

http://www.irishlimousin.com/html/sire_catalogue.html

Its a pity its such a short list though and most of them seem to have limited availability. Outside the budget for commercial breeding cattle I would imagine bar a few.

Bodacious

Bizzum wrote: »

Bodacious wrote: »

Our guy is normally 40 euro which include 2 repeats so he prob threw him extra 10 for the hassle of gettin straw etc

Is it €40 for a straw put in the cow or just the straw?

I see the Lim soc has a nice little section on lims with milk, the high milk catalogue.

http://www.irishlimousin.com/html/sire_catalogue.html

E40 for a regular straw put in cow plus 2 repeats if needed, after that he'll charge you! If you looking for a premium or Pre order straw you have to give the difference between that ie Panda and a regular straw like CVV or FL21 that he would have anyway

limo_100

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Did he ever come into Ireland or did they just import his straws. I assume since he was proven for milk in France he was well aged before his tadpoles hit our shores...

I dont think so they probably just imported his semen when they had the ibr outbreak last year. Did you use him redz?? what bull are you using redz to get them great calves?? or is it your own bull?

bogman_bass

limo_100 wrote: »

and i take it very to be got again...:mad: is he dead???

I'd say he is, he was born in 99. the straws were imported from france. You're only hope is that your technician has some sitting in his tank

limo_100

bogman_bass wrote: »

I'd say he is, he was born in 99. the straws were imported from france. You're only hope is that your technician has some sitting in his tank

no hes all out...its a pity but what can you do.... so what would you recommend as a good replacement for him??

bogman_bass

OZS, FL21,or CVV

Bizzum

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Its a pity its such a short list though and most of them seem to have limited availability. Outside the budget for commercial breeding cattle I would imagine bar a few.

It is a pity. I think though that it is a good idea, a step in the right direction. Indeed the soc could do worse than really promoting hard a short list of bulls suitable to breed quality replacements.

redzerologhlen

Bizzum wrote: »

It is a pity. I think though that it is a good idea, a step in the right direction. Indeed the soc could do worse than really promoting hard a short list of bulls suitable to breed quality replacements.

They could don a lot worse than that alright, I think its a very good idea. Its just a pity that it is so hard for not only they farmers but the society to get their hands on some milking breeding. I just dont like the thought of every maternal lim bull working out of kinda the same gene pool if you get me.

limo_100

guys did any of use fl29?? if so where is calves good?? I was told to use a bull with ferry in there breeding

johnpawl

bogman_bass wrote: »

OZS, FL21,or CVV

How is OZS for docility? Putting him on a few cows hoping for replacements. Have all quiet cows now, and the last thing I want is hassle...:)

just do it

johnpawl wrote: »

How is OZS for docility? Putting him on a few cows hoping for replacements. Have all quiet cows now, and the last thing I want is hassle...:)

No hands on knowledge but it's suspicious ICBF have nothing on him for docility. What is good though is his paternal and maternal grand sires, the only one of his lineage with docility ratings, have good docility. Therefore you'd have to imagine he'll be fine. He certainly won't be worse than FL22:rolleyes:

limo_100

johnpawl wrote: »

How is OZS for docility? Putting him on a few cows hoping for replacements. Have all quiet cows now, and the last thing I want is hassle...:)

you should try fl21 his calves are very quiet and very stylish

royaler83

bogman_bass wrote: »

OZS, FL21,or CVV

What's OZS like for ease of calving on a dairy cow bogman? Any knowledge on HCA for same?

bogman_bass

I've heard nothing back from dairy men yet. I would say he is safe enough to use on mature dairy cows. He is easy calving but just not sure HOW easy calving untill there is a few more calves on the ground. I doubt he'll be in the same league as REQ or FL22 for calving ease but shouldnt be too far off

royaler83

bogman_bass wrote: »

I've heard nothing back from dairy men yet. I would say he is safe enough to use on mature dairy cows. He is easy calving but just not sure HOW easy calving untill there is a few more calves on the ground. I doubt he'll be in the same league as REQ or FL22 for calving ease but shouldnt be too far off

Cheers, just found another thread about OZS and lads seem happy enough with him

RobinBanks

limo_100 wrote: »

you should try fl21 his calves are very quiet and very stylish

I only have 1 FL21 calf but I wouldnt be of the same opinion as you. My one is a bull out of a BYU heifer. Very tall calf but no shape. Cow has very little milk but I would have thought that the blue cross would have brought a bit of shape. He wont be an export type weanling but he will turn into a fair bullock. So based on my experience I am not sure if i will use him again.

pakalasa

limo_100 wrote: »

you should try fl21 his calves are very quiet and very stylish

Have you many heifers from him? His Maternal Calving figures are incredible, well into the top 1% so they should be able to calve elephants. I have a few in calf to him at the moment, so fingers crossed.