**Spoilers** Series 6, Episode 5 - "The Rebel Flesh"

pixelburp

Ooh er, we're nearing the summer finale, time flies. So tomorrow's episode is written by the much-maligned Matthew Graham; maligned because his only previous episode on Dr. Who was "Fear Her". But hey, look on the bright side: tomorrow's story can't be any worse! And to be fair, the man did create Life On Mars / Ashes to Ashes so he deserves a second chance.

it seems like it's just a standalone, traditional 2-parter. In the same way the Silurians story was last season, so I don't expect we'll get any answers just yet.

Clips as per usual (I only stick 'em in now out of habit tbh )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enu1B90IYWo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcootSFvvpU

Killer_banana

I seem to be the only person who actually likes fear her. It's not great or anything but I'd willingly watch it and actually enjoy it.

I haven't seen or heard much about the episode so I don't know what exactly to expect but it looks like it could be good enough.

bren2001

Killer_banana wrote: »

I seem to be the only person who actually likes fear her. It's not great or anything but I'd willingly watch it and actually enjoy it.

I haven't seen or heard much about the episode so I don't know what exactly to expect but it looks like it could be good enough.

I didn't think "fear her" was a particularly great episode but if i was flicking through the channels and it was on I wouldn't turn it off.

The Mad Hatter

Killer_banana wrote: »

I seem to be the only person who actually likes fear her. It's not great or anything but I'd willingly watch it and actually enjoy it.

I thought the premise was ok, but it was badly executed, and the ending was just about the cheesiest thing I've ever seen. It did have my favourite TARDIS gag at the beginning, where the Doctor parks the TARDIS the wrong way around and can't get out.

off.the.walls

Good episode, definitally made up for Fear Her, the ending was fairly obvious though.

Goodshape

Was a bit bored during this episode. Hope the second part is better because wouldn't be in a hurry to sit through another 45 minutes of it.

Aldebaran

It was okay. Nothing particularly awful about, nothing particularly amazing about it. Rory was probably the best thing about the episode, he seems to be becoming more sure of himself or something.

Jennifer: 'I thought I was going to die'
Rory: 'Welcome to my world'

EDIT: Also, there is now the possibility that the Doctor that was killed at the start of the season was the Ganger-Doctor.

Daemos

What a missed opportunity for an alien planet adventure

pixelburp

Yeah, I don't think it's a stretch to presume that the Doctor we see get shot in episode 1 is the Ganger Doctor. Afterall, it would answer the obvious question never tackled from ep1 - where was the 2nd Doctor's TARDIS? Answer / Theory? He never had one in the first place.

As for tonight's story - well it was OK, nothing special. It felt very mundane, - a real 6/10'er - it didn't feel like there was much at stake really, and to be honest I'm amazed that it's a 2 parter because I don't see the need to stretch the story out: though having said that, I presume the second part will deal with a Doctor vs. Doctor battle. It's strange, as when this adventure is done we just have one more episode until the break so I'm guessing the finale of tonight's story will lead into the mid-season end.

Rory's little acknowledgement of his red-shirt status was cute, but otherwise I thought the characters were very poorly written. Amy had none of the endearing snark she usually displays; The Doctor was muted & just didn't have the spark and wit of other stories & Rory's sudden, dogged defence of the Jennifer character seemed out of place. I even spotted them holding hands, whatever that was about.

campo

I think the gangers could turn out to be weeping angels only because the episode was called the rebel flesh and it might be going back to flesh and stone plus the looked at bit like them, or could be completely wrong also dont think the Doctor that was shot will be the ganger again could be completely wrong

spiritcrusher

Sort of a nothing episode, nothing particularly good or bad about it, seems like it's just setting up next week. I did find Rory's defence of Jennifer a bit odd though, usually he'd never leave Amy if there was even a hint of danger. Hopefully there's a decent payoff next week and maybe we'll start to see some development on the questions from the first 2 episodes.

Cookie33

It was a good episode, I think Amy took a bit of a back seat and gave Rory some acting time.

Although the eye-patch woman and the scanner pregancy clips were shown again.. Obviously some connection made there

I want more answers to a lot of questions but I guess I just have to wait

Aoifums

Oh Matthew Graham. I sighed when I saw his name and the episode didn't get any better from there. I was bored enough to pull out my laptop during it, which says a lot about it.
The ending was fairly predictible and I'm struggling to remember any of the minor characters' names.

Manach

Perhaps Rory "The Pretty One" empathised as he himself was once plastic?

BuffyBot

So, so. Hardly a thrill a minute. Reminds me a lot of the 2-parter with the Silurians last year. Industrial complex, people in peril, blah blah. Not much we haven't seen before.

Rory getting some backbone is a welcome character development, however.

Coldzone

I thought the ep was ok and the ending was very obvious.

I don't think its the Doctor's ganger getting killed in the 1st ep as that would be way too obvious and the Doctor started to regenerate when he was shot doubt the ganager can do that.

The ganger does remind me alot of the Nestene Consciousness.

Raedwald

This sudden change in character for Rory seems to have just materialized but i guess it was needed for this 2 parter and that he will go back to his usual self when it is over.

Not an overly enjoyable episode tbh, i think mundane is an apt word to describe it. Hopefully the second part next week kicks up a notch otherwise it just seems a waste of two ep's.

Having said that i have the feeling that its an episode that holds more answers than its letting on at the moment bar the obvious doctor ep 1 doppleganger murder if indeed that does turn out to be the case.

Re Amy: Why is it that the Tardis hasn't decided whether she is pregnant or not yet? The one eyed women to me at least is a guardian angel type midwife figure i think.

BlitzKrieg

rather mundane.

I was hoping that:

the sudden increased overproctection from rory and other random quirks from characters was to play with a are they or are they not gangers, such as the doctor loosing his shoes and the guy sneezing alot. but none of that came to anything this part and the ending seems to nod heavily that it wont.

Kept thinking of DS9 and Odo throughout and closer to home the atons from Rose.

Also the budget shows when I found the place felt small yet they could go the whole episode and never run into the real jennifer.

Overall very predictable but nothing really painful.

I did like how rory and amy have turned the tardis into something akin of a pub in the opening with the dart board and music, you could swear the doctor's a bit annoyed at that.

Banjo Fella

Hmm, I was a little bit disappointed by that. It was bizarrely similar to the first half of last season's Silurians story - a mining site, a truce nearly agreed upon until one of the humans turned violently xenophobic, the prevalence of comedy regional accents (:p). The next episode could be quite interesting, but I'm worried about how well the Doctor vs. Doctor bits will be written given that the main trio didn't seem themselves for most of this episode. Many of their actions and lines felt out of character, particularly in Rory's case.

Raedwald wrote: »

Re Amy: Why is it that the Tardis hasn't decided whether she is pregnant or not yet?

I think the TARDIS has determined the outcome of her pregnancy! I get the impression it's saying that she's both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time. A kind of weird Schrödinger's pregnancy thingy, maybe.

pixelburp

Raedwald wrote: »

[...]
Re Amy: Why is it that the Tardis hasn't decided whether she is pregnant or not yet? The one eyed women to me at least is a guardian angel type midwife figure i think.

I presume it's because of some sort of time-wimey anomoly going on. I suspect Amy really is both pregnant and not at the same time. She's got a Quantum Pregnancy I suspect this time strangeness will play into the finale too, I suspect it'll all come to a head somehow

I was just reading a review of last night's episode on io9 & it pointed out what I realise now was a major problem with the story: the Doctor was utterly inconsequential to everything that happened. He ran about and did a lot of talking, but overall he had no effect on what occurred. The same goes for Amy & Rory really.

spiritcrusher

A couple of things really:

1. The Doctor seems to have known what was going to happen. Either he has been here before or this was the start of something he was already aware of.

2. The flesh isn't a clone or a copy, it IS the person. Every cell is identical so surely the flesh doctor could regenerate just as the Doctor can. In that instance the season opening death isn't as odd.

3. Referring to the quotes below: Perhaps Rory knows what it feels like to have to deal with being a copy of himself given the Nestine Consciousness version he is/was before the end of the last series. They've already mentioned his memories of that time this series so perhaps that feeds into this?


[QUOTE=pixelburp;72345763Rory's sudden, dogged defence of the Jennifer character seemed out of place. I even spotted them holding hands, whatever that was about.[/QUOTE]

spiritcrusher wrote: »

I did find Rory's defence of Jennifer a bit odd though, usually he'd never leave Amy if there was even a hint of danger

DirtyBollox

the doctor has encountered a type of this flesh before. in The "Sontaran Stratagem" the sontarans use a substance to infiltrate UNIT and it was kept alive by the memories and emotions of the other person.

pixelburp

Deleted User wrote: »

A couple of things really:

1. The Doctor seems to have known what was going to happen. Either he has been here before or this was the start of something he was already aware of.

I think you're right, and that the Doctor's scheming something; I flicked through the episode there today & there's one scene that happened without explanation, but I think significant. The Doctor tells all he's returning to the TARDIS, but secretly takes a detour via the flesh vat. He runs in, zaps the flesh with his screwdriver, then runs out. He doesn't check his device, so he wasn't scanning it, rather it seemed like he was inducing something to happen. I suspect this flesh Doctor is a deliberate plan of the real version: to do what, who knows

Killer_banana

Well that was terrifying in so many ways...

I liked it but it wasn't amazing. The pacing seemed really off, like in earlier parts of the episode it seemed like the writer had tried to fit in more than he had time for but other parts it went really slow and basically nothing was happening.

Rory's defence of Jennifer's ganger made sense to me mostly. She was lost and confused and he empathised with her and realised she didn't mean any harm, she just wanted to live. But abandoning Amy and the Doctor to find the real Jennifer? That seemed off to me. She is essentially the same person but apart from noticing Rory having kind eyes when she saw him first he has no personal connection to her nor she to him (which is why I don't understand her calling for Rory when she stumbled upon the Doctor's ganger) so why is he so determined to find her? I guess he feels he knows her and knows she's scared and confused as her ganger was initially but I still find it odd. I like seeing Rory actually doing something for once though I just think the writers wasn't quite strong enough to write it in a clear enough way for it to seem in character. As for the hand holding e.t.c I think Jennifer just wanted comfort (and also quite fancies Rory) and he was just nice enough to oblige. There's an odd moment when the Doctor is trying to form a treaty with the humans and gangers when Jennifer and Rory are holding hands and he jumps in pain because she holds his hand too tight. It could just be a badly timed joke but it seemed so out of place to me that I feel as if it's going to lead to something. But I constantly read way too much into things so I may be completely wrong.

Also I definitely think the Doctor knows something about the flesh that he's not telling the others. I do think when he took a detour to the flesh and used the screwdriver he wasn't scanning it, as someone said he didn't check for any results. That said judging from his expression when his ganger walked out he didn't mean to create it. Wow this post it ridiculously long...sorry.

Gambler

Personally I didn't really get into it and I'm hoping the first episode was primarily setup and that the second part is what will be the "good part"..

ixoy

It was.. okay. A little dull - it felt like there was twenty minutes of storyline stretched over forty. It made my attention drift, as it seems to have done with others too.
The reveal at the end would have been more interesting if it had been anyone else...
I liked how Rory was protective but running away from Amy at the end seemed out of character at the same time.

I dunno - it didn't make me look forward to the next instalment. Still it's a big improvement on "Fear Her".

DinoRex

Yeah... think I'm of the same opinion of most... was pretty dull and padded out way too much.

Also felt way too much like the Silurian 2-parter from last year... also wasn't this same ruin used in an episode last year as well? I definitely remember those wooden steps leading into the hole in the wall.

Also:

Personally I was just happy to hear 'Supermassive Black Hole' by Muse playing at the beginning. Very cool.

Also, giggling that all the gangers looked like Voldemort :P

eyeball kid

Only watched this episode last night. Enjoyed it mostly although you could see the ending coming a mile off.

Next weeks should be interesting. I'm guessing that the ganger Doc is the one that gets shot in Episode 1.


Is there a break after the next episode? How long for?

Daemos

We have the second episode of this story, another episode by Moffat with a mid-series cliffhanger, then a break until around September

eyeball kid

Daemos wrote: »

We have the second episode of this story, another episode by Moffat with a mid-series cliffhanger, then a break until around September

Thanks. Wonder why they decided to add a midseason break this year?

Raphael

It's probably because they're trying to get american audiences this year, and midseason breaks are common over there. Also, summer isn't the best time for TV in general, so skipping it has merit.

ríomhaire

Did anyone else find the acting a little bit off? Like everyone wasn't sure of themselves or something? Perhaps directing problems. I found the entire episode to be a bit off. It wasn't a bad premise or a bad script but there was an air of things not quite working properly for the whole episode.

Also the scared girl (don't remember her name) becoming psycho at the end just didn't seem right to me. Her entire personality just suddenly changed. If fact everyone seemed far too quick to become murders. I would understand if they were shown as being particularly scared like in Cold Blood but it really just seemed like they were just all like "ok these guys are weird lets kill them why not" and the flesh people were just like "oh yeah they're probably going to try to kill us so we should kill them why not." I think that's an acting/directing problem more than script though.

Coldzone

I just watched the episode again and anyone else think that the Doctor changing his shoes is gonna be something like the jacket taken off in last seasons episodes?

Yahew

the doctor changing his shoes? That seems relevant in the next episode.

Killer_banana

Coldzone wrote: »

I just watched the episode again and anyone else think that the Doctor changing his shoes is gonna be something like the jacket taken off in last seasons episodes?

Teeny tiny almost insignificant spoiler (if you watched the clip in the thread for tomorrow night's episode then you'll already know) but spoilered just in case.

Amy uses his and the ganger's shoes to tell them apart so maybe...

8mv

Didn't see the start of this episode - are the gangers created with clothes already on? Sounds silly I know.

Coldzone

Killer_banana wrote: »

Teeny tiny almost insignificant spoiler (if you watched the clip in the thread for tomorrow night's episode then you'll already know) but spoilered just in case.

Amy uses his and the ganger's shoes to tell them apart so maybe...

Ah I just watched the clip and see now

I also just watched the Impossible Astronaut and the Doctor is wearing the black shoes in it when he gets killed. Not sure if it makes any difference but we seen from last series not a lot of this stuff is random.

The Mad Hatter

8mv wrote: »

Didn't see the start of this episode - are the gangers created with clothes already on? Sounds silly I know.

Yup. They mention it in the dialogue.

Coldzone wrote: »

Ah I just watched the clip and see now

I also just watched the Impossible Astronaut and the Doctor is wearing the black shoes in it when he gets killed. Not sure if it makes any difference but we seen from last series not a lot of this stuff is random.

I think it would seem like an incredible cop-out if it was the ganger doctor that got killed in episode one. Also, bear in mind that the doctor who was killed was two-hundred years older than the doctor we're travelling with now. Would he really let a doppelgänger run around for two hundred years?

We also have Canton Everett's word that "that is certainly the doctor, and he is most certainly dead." Again, it'd seem sort of cheap if he was just lying or misinformed.

Killer_banana

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

I think it would seem like an incredible cop-out if it was the ganger doctor that got killed in episode one. Also, bear in mind that the doctor who was killed was two-hundred years older than the doctor we're travelling with now. Would he really let a doppelgänger run around for two hundred years?

We also have Canton Everett's word that "that is certainly the doctor, and he is most certainly dead." Again, it'd seem sort of cheap if he was just lying or misinformed.

Also he had memories of meetings with River that the current Doctor does not. I can't see the Doctor let a ganger do whatever he wants, including posing as him to his companions whenever he wants without the Doctor even knowing.