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section 21 who ordered this in our government?

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24

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    #32
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    How on earth can this countries flag be deemed offensive?

    Well, theoretically it could be regarded as an instrument, the excessive presence of which in the context of a visit by the Queen of England, could be seen as liable to incite disruption or protest.

    In reality, however, it seems the flag was not confiscated so your abhorrence becomes redundant ;)


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    #33
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    How on earth can this countries flag be deemed offensive?
    swordofislam wrote: »
    Quite right Killer Pigeon what could be more offensive than that symbol of terrorism? Ireland has a new flag an arrangement of red, blue and white crosses. The test in this matter can't be completely subjective that's ad hoc law.

    Maybe you're misunderstanding the Gardaí's interpretation of "offensive article". A potential weapon such as a flagpole can be described as an "offensive article". If I had a t-shirt with an Irish flag or a Union Jack printed on it, I doubt that the Gardaí would have a problem with it.


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    #34
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    I'd also like to point out that 01:12 in the video, the Ban Garda clearly says "I'm taking the flagpole", the man with the long brown hair acknowledges this, even though the person who edits the video say in the subtitles "the flag is not attached to a pole", funnily enough at 01:19 we see the Ban-Garda walk off with a white stick (pole) in her left hand. Why would someone be walking around with a flagpole and a flag that are not attacked to each other? Also there is no evidence in the video of I tripod. It's very hard to believe the person who made the video - it's obvious be made the video with the intention of causing trouble.


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    #35
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    You see flags on poles up here all the time. Is this just a rule under law in the Republic or something?


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    #36
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    You see flags on poles up here all the time. Is this just a rule under law in the Republic or something?
    Keith its just ridiculous, the Garda were told to confiscate flagpoles, yet metal poles for cameras are fine, why is this?


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    #37
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Keith its just ridiculous, the Garda were told to confiscate flagpoles, yet metal poles for cameras are fine, why is this?

    There's not proof in this video that the woman has a metal pole for her camera.


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    #38
    Fittle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭Fittle


    I am astounded that this thread has 37 replies to a youtube video that was filmed very obviously by a troll, to garnish support for the thuggery of the minority while the queen was here.:rolleyes: Neither that video, nor this thread, have anything to do with section 21 and everything to do with those who tried to cause trouble all week:rolleyes:


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    #39
    PomBear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭PomBear


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    There's not proof in this video that the woman has a metal pole for her camera.

    I know people who went up and had tricolours taken and they didn't have poles. So if she had the tripod or not is a moot point, questions need to be as to why the tricolour is deemed an section 21 offence.


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    #40
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Trampas


    It is obvious the person behind the video was looking to cause trouble.


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    #41
    tfitzgerald
    Registered Users Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    The ban Garda did look to confiscate the flag but when she backtracked and looked for the pole. In her defence she was very nice and polite I think she should be left alone. Also the Garda had to deal with a lot of scumbags during the week so this might have had her on edge


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    #42
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Fittle wrote: »
    I am astounded that this thread has 37 replies to a youtube video that was filmed very obviously by a troll, to garnish support for the thuggery of the minority while the queen was here.:rolleyes: Neither that video, nor this thread, have anything to do with section 21 and everything to do with those who tried to cause trouble all week:rolleyes:

    Precisely!

    Considering the video has been so firmly discredited - not least by the star herself lying on the video about being "arrested" :rolleyes: - it's hard to believe that anyone not involved could view it as post-worthy or use it as evidence of anything other than "some people will do anything to cause trouble and will even make themselves look thick by filming themselves lying"

    It does make me wonder how many people could possibly believe this rubbish, which means that we should probably "take a pole"


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    #43
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Its not a moot point, it means that there was deliberate targeting of the national flag while actual weapons such as a metal pole were not taken. It flies in the face of thosewho claim that the poles are taken because they are weapons.
    Look at the video, the camera is at head height. Are you saying the woman held the camera at head height the entire time and shoved it in the face of the coppers? Or is it more likely, (I will track down the poster who saw the event and ask him too) that she was grasping a pole/monopod (as she claims!) hence why the camera is so high? You try holding a camera phone above your head or at eye level for that period of time while keeping the footage as stable as it is.


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    #44
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Fittle wrote: »
    I am astounded that this thread has 37 replies to a youtube video that was filmed very obviously by a troll, to garnish support for the thuggery of the minority while the queen was here.:rolleyes: Neither that video, nor this thread, have anything to do with section 21 and everything to do with those who tried to cause trouble all week:rolleyes:
    On the contrary it seems the woman is one of those people who goes around pointing out how she perceives civil liberties are being taken away.

    Nice try linking her with the protesters, but I see no evidence that she is a republican.


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    #45
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    On the contrary it seems the woman is one of those people who goes around pointing out how she perceives civil liberties are being taken away.

    Nice try linking her with the protesters, but I see no evidence that she is a republican.

    She ran around a street falsely claiming she was being arrested!

    Civil liberties my arse - she just wanted to create a scene no matter what.

    Troublemaker/attention-seeker. No logical argument for anything otherwise.


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    #46
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Its not a moot point, it means that there was deliberate targeting of the national flag while actual weapons such as a metal pole were not taken. It flies in the face of thosewho claim that the poles are taken because they are weapons.
    Look at the video, the camera is at head height. Are you saying the woman held the camera at head height the entire time and shoved it in the face of the coppers? Or is it more likely, (I will track down the poster who saw the event and ask him too) that she was grasping a pole/monopod (as she claims!) hence why the camera is so high? You try holding a camera phone above your head or at eye level for that period of time while keeping the footage as stable as it is.

    For God sake cop on will ya...

    Its obvious what happened. The order was given that flagpoles (something you would expect to be brought to a rally) were to be taken as the didn't want protesters who have a track record of thuggery having a stick to hit people with. So gardaí were briefed that morning to confiscate flagpoles. This young female guard got the order wrong and thought she had to take flags. Simple mistake and she was corrected, and took the flagpole instead.

    They didn't take the tripod (something you wouldn't necessarily have expected to encounter), as presumably they weren't briefed to confiscate all tripods, and just followed their orders.

    Not everything is an anti republican conspiracy. :rolleyes:


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    #47
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    She ran around a street falsely claiming she was being arrested!

    Civil liberties my arse - she just wanted to create a scene no matter what.

    Troublemaker/attention-seeker. No logical argument for anything otherwise.
    I said how she perceives her civil liberties are being infringed on. I agree, she was looking for that to happen, but that does not mean her video is irrelevant or unworthy of debate.


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    #48
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    yekahS wrote: »
    For God sake cop on will ya...

    Its obvious what happened. The order was given that flagpoles (something you would expect to be brought to a rally) were to be taken as the didn't want protesters who have a track record of thuggery having a stick to hit people with. So gardaí were briefed that morning to confiscate flagpoles. This young female guard got the order wrong and thought she had to take flags. Simple mistake and she was corrected, and took the flagpole instead.

    They didn't take the tripod (something you wouldn't necessarily have expected to encounter), as presumably they weren't briefed to confiscate all tripods, and just followed their orders.

    Not everything is an anti republican conspiracy. :rolleyes:
    So they were deliberately told to target the national flag then.


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    #49
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    So they were deliberately told to target the national flag then.

    Flagpoles. People kept their flags.

    Ever go to a concert or a match at croke park?


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    #50
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    I said how she perceives her civil liberties are being infringed on. I agree, she was looking for that to happen, but that does not mean her video is irrelevant or unworthy of debate.

    If she even remotely had a case she wouldn't have needed to lie. She knew well that no civil liberties were being infringed on.


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    #51
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    So they were deliberately told to target the national flag then.

    Sigh! For that to be true they would have been allowing UK flags on flagpoles through. Which clearly wasn't the case.


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    #52
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Its not a moot point, it means that there was deliberate targeting of the national flag while actual weapons such as a metal pole were not taken. It flies in the face of thosewho claim that the poles are taken because they are weapons.
    Look at the video, the camera is at head height. Are you saying the woman held the camera at head height the entire time and shoved it in the face of the coppers? Or is it more likely, (I will track down the poster who saw the event and ask him too) that she was grasping a pole/monopod (as she claims!) hence why the camera is so high? You try holding a camera phone above your head or at eye level for that period of time while keeping the footage as stable as it is.

    For about half the video, the camera is not held at head height - we know this because when the Ban Garda first approaches the woman the camera is below the Ban Garda's head and she is looking above the camera. It's only when the woman starts to make a ruckus that the height of the camera is increased.


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    #53
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    The ban Garda did look to confiscate the flag but when she backtracked and looked for the pole. In her defence she was very nice and polite I think she should be left alone. Also the Garda had to deal with a lot of scumbags during the week so this might have had her on edge
    My thread wasnt about the Bean Garda! Its about who orders a flag or plastic flag pole taken away.Is it possible to turn into a bomb or a gun or a weapon to throw at the car?
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Sigh! For that to be true they would have been allowing UK flags on flagpoles through. Which clearly wasn't the case.

    I didnt see any union jacks being thrown in the bin in that truck so looks like no one had any :pac::confused:


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    #54
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    The woman's deluded. For one thing, she admits that she had already refused to be searched once that day and "threatened" with arrest. So she was in no doubt that carrying the pole could cause a problem.
    If she really is a film maker as she claims, why would she have a flag on a pole anyway? Holding a camera on a monopod in one hand and a flagpole in the other........I don't think so. Carrying the pole was just to provoke a reaction.

    We're only going to hear her side of things and going by the video and her comments, she clearly had an agenda. Which to me seems hypocritical as she's accusing the Gardai of that very thing.
    No, she wanted to be arrested. Maybe with a name like MadamK, the idea of being put in handcuffs was appealing :rolleyes:


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    #55
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    caseyann wrote: »
    My thread wasnt about the Bean Garda! Its about who orders a flag or plastic flag pole taken away.Is it possible to turn into a bomb or a gun or a weapon to throw at the car?


    There is no amount of explaining that can be done by anyone here that will convince you that the decision, no matter who it was made by, was the correct decision.
    Had anybody got through the cordons with "potential" weapons and a serious incident had occurred, there're would be far more severe criticism of the Gardai. And I'm not just referring to criticism from one or 2 Boardsies.


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    #56
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Section 21 (2) of the Criminal Justic (Public Order) Act, 1994


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0021.html

    So basically, it doesn't matter what it is. If the Garda believes that the flag could be regarded as an offensive article he/she can confiscate it. Funnily enough, the person who put up the video banned me from commenting on the video after I pointed this and observing that she just wanted to cause trouble, aggravate the situation and make some sort of vague "protest" - ironic I find seeing as she would prefer to see herself as a champion of free speak and expression. :rolleyes:

    I am not sure she set out to set up thiss ituation to cause a fuss, as you can see that she had actually gone past the ban garda without any fuss and the ban garda actually called her back. Clearly the ban garda herself didnt see any problem initially. If the ' stick' was one of these little bamboo sticks the small tricolours are normally attached to, then the situation is ridiculous. I have seen small folding umbrellas being examined and allowed through airport security and these metal device have more potential for danger than a little bamboo stick.


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    #57
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    caseyann wrote: »
    My thread wasnt about the Bean Garda! Its about who orders a flag or plastic flag pole taken away.Is it possible to turn into a bomb or a gun or a weapon to throw at the car?



    I didnt see any union jacks being thrown in the bin in that truck so looks like no one had any :pac::confused:

    when you buy a bottle of coke/water/fanta at oxegen you dont get the cap. a capped full bottle of coke thrown at someone will hurt like hell. an uncapped bottle of coke won't.

    i think in the first few rugby games in the aviva you were't allowed bring flag poles in.

    you're not allowed umbrellas at music festivals/concerts either.

    it is annoying but in a week when there was violent disturbances/incidents in town it makes sense.


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    #58
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    caseyann wrote: »
    Is it possible to turn into a bomb or a gun or a weapon to throw at the car?


    Just one more thing, a 2ft plastic pole could hurt a lot if used against another persons body. If they were to be allowed and word got around, what do you think may have happened?


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    #59
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Just one more thing, a 2ft plastic pole could hurt a lot if used against another persons body. If they were to be allowed and word got around, what do you think may have happened?


    And she was carrying a two foot pole :confused:


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    #60
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    caseyann wrote: »
    And she was carrying a two foot pole :confused:
    It might have been longer. Hard tell from the vid. Or maybe you know?


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    #61
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    caseyann wrote: »
    My thread wasnt about the Bean Garda! Its about who orders a flag or plastic flag pole taken away.

    Any crowd control person with a bit of cop-on. Even more so when they're dealing with lying troublemakers.
    Is it possible to turn into a bomb or a gun or a weapon to throw at the car?

    If the flagpole is a wand, maybe! Or maybe if you're a witch! :D
    I didnt see any union jacks being thrown in the bin in that truck so looks like no one had any :pac::confused:

    Cheap attempt at point-scoring......the fact is that the claim was made that the national flag was specifically targetted, which is false - the FLAGPOLES of ANY flag would have been dealt with in the same way, and any comments to the contrary are pure bull and ****-stirring.

    Why are you so adamant on defending a discredited video? Is the video yours? Why have you avoided discussing all of the false claims an bull**** surrounding said video?


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