PPS numbers for children - reference required?

Fenster

Like as not, the Galway City forum isn't the appropriate place for this thread, but I can't find anywhere that is a better match.

My wife and two children moved here last week from America, and so we went to the Welfare office on Friday to apply for their PPS numbers. During our interview the interviewer insisted that we needed a letter from my GP in relation to the children, yet refused to explain why. My GP explained that no letter could be issued since 1. my children aren't registered at that practice, and 2. they didn't "know" my children, although they did "know" me.

I'm confused. We have:

Flight records, passports, birth certificates and a marriage certificate, all of which show a chain of custody and relationship between my children and I (and their mother). We now also need a letter from a third-party saying that they know the children are mine?

To quote from the actual Welfare operations manual:

4.4 Child Applications - Form REG1
Where a PPS No is required for a child, a Form REG1 must be completed by the parent/guardian, in respect of the child. The parent or guardian's details should be entered on Part 2 at sections 11, 12 and 13. The parent/guardian should provide evidence of his/her own identity, address and evidence of the date of birth of the child, e.g. Birth Certificate ( UK or Northern Ireland only) or child's own passport or child's entry on the parent's passport.

The parent/guardian must indicate the relationship between them and the child. The relationship between the parent/guardian and the child in many cases will be self evident, i.e. same surname for parent and child. Where doubt arises, further inquiries/documentary evidence may be necessary and may require the assistance of the SW Inspector and/or CIS Control.

It is necessary for one of the parents/guardian to have a PPS No in order for the child to be registered and linked with their data. Where none exists, the parent must apply in the normal way. Local arrangements should be put in place to advise a parent of the child's number as letters only issue to individuals over 16 years of age.

Copies of the documents presented should be attached to the Form REG1 and the word CHILD clearly written on the front of the completed form.

I underlined a section for emphasis because neither my stepdaughter nor my wife share my last name, but as I stated above there is a solid cache of documents that establish our relationship.

Help?

Sponge Bob

There is a Registrar or Superintendent Registrar in charge of Shantalla and the county ( or most of) . Set up a personal appointment with them.

Every child under 10 was issued witha PPS at BIRTH so they could claim child benefit. They issue the birth certs in the maternity hospitals with PPS number printed on them nowadays.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/bdm/How_to_register_a_birth/BIFeng.pdf

You do need proof of address, maybe this was what the GP supplied.

Fenster

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is a Registrar or Superintendent Registrar in charge of Shantalla and the county ( or most of) . Set up a personal appointment with them.

Every child under 10 was issued witha PPS at BIRTH so they could claim child benefit. They issue the birth certs in the maternity hospitals with PPS number printed on them nowadays.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/bdm/How_to_register_a_birth/BIFeng.pdf

You do need proof of address, maybe this was what the GP supplied.

My children are both Americans born in America and neither's birth was recorded here. The accepted a bank statement as current proof of address for my wife and I.

Unrealistic

I went through this last year. They are looking for a letter either from the school or doctor to get some independent confirmation that the children are indeed living in Ireland. There is apparently a significant problem with fraudulent claims for benefits for children who are not actually present in the country. In our case we had the children on the books with our local GP (you might want to check that their vaccinations are up to date as the US and European schedules are not identical). The GP issued a letter with no problem that said nothing more than that the kids were registered patients.

Mrs OBumble

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is a Registrar or Superintendent Registrar in charge of Shantalla and the county ( or most of) . Set up a personal appointment with them.

I'm not sure what Shantalla has to do with anything ... PPS numbers are issued by Welfare, not the HSE (AFAIK).

OP, I'd strongly suggest that you get the kids registered with a medical practice. If they should happen to get sick outside of office hours, it's virtually essential to go thru a GP to get treated. (As you're American, you may be used to have having a separate GP for adults and paediatrician for kids: 'fraid it doesn't happen that way here, "family doctors" do the lot.)

Try posting in the State Benefits forum (maybe ask the mods to move this post) for more advice.

Fenster

Unrealistic wrote: »

I went through this last year. They are looking for a letter either from the school or doctor to get some independent confirmation that the children are indeed living in Ireland. There is apparently a significant problem with fraudulent claims for benefits for children who are not actually present in the country. In our case we had the children on the books with our local GP (you might want to check that their vaccinations are up to date as the US and European schedules are not identical). The GP issued a letter with no problem that said nothing more than that the kids were registered patients.

The children were with us.

Unrealistic

Fenster wrote: »

The children were with us.

Our children were with us too but they want something on file to show that kids are not just visiting but are based here long term. There was apparently a widespread problem with families where one parent would come to work in Ireland and would register the whole family while they were visiting Ireland for a holiday so that children's allowance could be claimed even though the other parent and all the children were still living in the home country.

It's a pain in the arse but not a major one. You need to get the kids registered with a GP anyway, then it's just a small extra step to get a letter from the GP confirming they are registered. The GP is not confirming that he knows the kids, or that he knows them to be your children, just that they are registered at his practice.

Head The Wall

This is where systems in this country are so sh1t, the gp letter could be gotten while the kids are visiting/holidaying.

I understand they are trying to eliminate fraud but this is a chocolate fireguard fix.

Fenster

Unrealistic wrote: »

Our children were with us too but they want something on file to show that kids are not just visiting but are based here long term. There was apparently a widespread problem with families where one parent would come to work in Ireland and would register the whole family while they were visiting Ireland for a holiday so that children's allowance could be claimed even though the other parent and all the children were still living in the home country.

It's a pain in the arse but not a major one. You need to get the kids registered with a GP anyway, then it's just a small extra step to get a letter from the GP confirming they are registered. The GP is not confirming that he knows the kids, or that he knows them to be your children, just that they are registered at his practice.

This explanation makes a whole lot more sense than any I have received through official channels, thank you.
With the above information in hand, I went back to my GP. They informed me that while my children don't need to register at the practice to attend there, no letter confirming the residence/existence/presence of my children will be issued until they attend an appointment at the practice, at the cost of €50 per child.

Reading between the lines: We will give you the letter if you give us one hundred euros.

Nice, eh?

I guess my other path to acquiring a PPS number would be to get them their Garda immigration cards?

testicle

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They issue the birth certs in the maternity hospitals with PPS number printed on them nowadays.

No they don't.

Fenster

testicle wrote: »

No they don't.

They don't, no, and it wouldn't help in my case as my stepdaughter is American and my son was American-born.

Cheshire Cat

Are your children going to school? We had a letter from the school saying they were enrolled and attending and that was sufficient.

Good luck!

Mrs OBumble

Fenster wrote: »

Reading between the lines: We will give you the letter if you give us one hundred euros.

.....

I guess my other path to acquiring a PPS number would be to get them their Garda immigration cards?

Welcome to the Irish way of doing business!


I don't know, but will be surprised if you can get immigration cards without PPS numbers ... hmm, maybe I'm wrong, 'cos you do need to register with the guards pretty much the moment you get here AFAIK.

Fenster

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

Are your children going to school? We had a letter from the school saying they were enrolled and attending and that was sufficient.

Good luck!

You need a PPS number to enroll in schools. My mind, it boggles!

JustMary wrote:

Welcome to the Irish way of doing business!

I don't know, but will be surprised if you can get immigration cards without PPS numbers ... hmm, maybe I'm wrong, 'cos you do need to register with the guards pretty much the moment you get here AFAIK.

We are doing just that first thing in the morning.

Cheshire Cat

Fenster wrote: »

You need a PPS number to enroll in schools. My mind, it boggles!

That's strange - we enrolled our two without a PPS number, we weren't even living in Ireland yet. Got here at the end of July, they started in their new school in September, we got the letter from the school and they got their PPS numbers then.

Mind you, that was a couple of years ago so things might have changed. I remember putting "to be advised" everywhere they were asking for the PPS number - never had any problem!

inisboffin

JustMary wrote: »

I don't know, but will be surprised if you can get immigration cards without PPS numbers ... hmm, maybe I'm wrong, 'cos you do need to register with the guards pretty much the moment you get here AFAIK.

You can get one without a PPS number afaik, if you have all the other stuff in order. 'Other stuff' is very random with immigration from friends' experience there...
and a word of caution, getting your cards may be like a quest from Lord Of The Rings (I've heard some horror stories from friends about the office in Líosbán!). It may have eased off now as students won't be going as much, but people used to get there at 4am to get one of the 'be seen' tickets at 7.30 am!

Hope it's easier now, best of luck.:)

Fenster

inisboffin wrote: »

You can get one without a PPS number afaik, if you have all the other stuff in order. 'Other stuff' is very random with immigration from friends' experience there...
and a word of caution, getting your cards may be like a quest from Lord Of The Rings (I've heard some horror stories from friends about the office in Líosbán!). It may have eased off now as students won't be going as much, but people used to get there at 4am to get one of the 'be seen' tickets at 7.30 am!

Hope it's easier now, best of luck.:)

It hasn't eased up. I didn't get to go today as a family emergency blew up in our faces last night, but I've been advised to be up, gone and at the door by 6am.

Unrealistic

Fenster wrote: »

It hasn't eased up. I didn't get to go today as a family emergency blew up in our faces last night, but I've been advised to be up, gone and at the door by 6am.

We went through that last September as well and was expecting it to be very painful because of what I'd read on here and especially at peak student time. It turned out to be not so bad. I got there at 6:45 and there were three people there before me. By 7:30 there were maybe a dozen people there. We were in and out in less than half an hour.

Unrealistic

Fenster wrote: »

I went back to my GP. They informed me that while my children don't need to register at the practice to attend there, no letter confirming the residence/existence/presence of my children will be issued until they attend an appointment at the practice, at the cost of €50 per child.

Reading between the lines: We will give you the letter if you give us one hundred euros.

The GP is taking the piss. My local GP charged €50 for the visit (not per child) in which both children were seen and that was to evaluate their vaccination status rather than just to get a letter. I think they had a €10 charge for the letter but that was waived so €50 was all we spent.

Unrealistic

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

That's strange - we enrolled our two without a PPS number, we weren't even living in Ireland yet. Got here at the end of July, they started in their new school in September, we got the letter from the school and they got their PPS numbers then.

Mind you, that was a couple of years ago so things might have changed. I remember putting "to be advised" everywhere they were asking for the PPS number - never had any problem!

We did the same for our older child who was starting primary school. I don't think we've ever gone back to the school now that he does have a PPS number so they haven't been looking for it. But it was critical for getting our younger child into pre-school as that was covered by ECCE funding.