Polybond fresh plaster or not?

paddy147

michael999999 wrote: »

2 coats of white covermatt emulsion to the ceiling and 2 coats of matt or vinyl emulsion to the walls.Use it straight out of the can.Use dulux or crown, or if the budget stretches use colortrend,it is the best paint on the market.

On a very tight budget as my budget went on other parts of the house and fixing other things.

Also the entire house had to be replastered,as the old plaster was comming away from the walls in places all over the house.

I was advized on the diluted PVA stuff be the painter down the road from me,then a cheap white undercoat (berger or crown 10 litres for 15 euro) and then a Magnolia finish coat 9again berger or Crown 10 litres for 15 euro),and thats it,job done.

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

The paint will slide over the polybond afterwards.

well you say in 15 years you have never seen anyone use it? well have you obviously used it yourself to come to this conclusion??

brendankelly

I knew that because no architect or project manager worth their salt would sign off on sealing plaster in any building. You should have a word with your builder because using sand and cement plaster or gypsum in an old house is not recommended

michael999999

Paul.C wrote: »

well you say in 15 years you have never seen anyone use it? well have you obviously used it yourself to come to this conclusion??

I think youll find i said on a plastered wall.I have used pva many times,we sealed over 100,000 fair faced blocks in the new Mary I building with it last year.

michael999999

paddy147 wrote: »

On a very tight budget as my budget went on other parts of the house and fixing other things.

Also the entire house had to be replastered,as the old plaster was comming away from the walls in places all over the house.

I was advized on the diluted PVA stuff be the painter down the road from me,then a cheap white undercoat (berger or crown 10 litres for 15 euro) and then a Magnolia finish coat 9again berger or Crown 10 litres for 15 euro),and thats it,job done.

Is he a painter or a jack of all trades, all paint is made from a white base, therefore the magnolia paint and the white paint is exactly the same thing. there is no need to undercoat it with white.Give it 2 coats of magnolia as a finish.

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

Im painting with 15 years and i have never used or seen anyone else use polybond on a plastered wall,The paint will slide over the polybond afterwards. Give it 2 coats of paint,the plaster will not soak that much.

The plasterer is just that a plasterer,and the builders providers will tell you that to make a sale.

michael999999 wrote: »

I think youll find i said on a plastered wall.I have used pva many times,we sealed over 100,000 fair faced blocks in the new Mary I building with it last year.

Well then you haven't a clue what the outcome is on a plastered wall so. Which means you really arent qualified to give an educated view. What do you think the outcome here is going to be.....do you think the walls will all start peeling or falling to pieces?? Because from my "1st hand experience" learned from an actual expert..(about 45 years experience) The only problem Iv ever come across is having to use less paint. hmmm

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

Is he a painter or a jack of all trades, all paint is made from a white base, therefore the magnolia paint and the white paint is exactly the same thing. there is no need to undercoat it with white.Give it 2 coats of magnolia as a finish.

???? white is cheaper and a different colour so wrong again:rolleyes:

650gs

If you polybond and there is any dampness even a small spot you will seal it in and it will bilster later 100%

michael999999

Paul.C wrote: »

Well then you haven't a clue what the outcome is on a plastered wall so. Which means you really arent qualified to give an educated view. What do you think the outcome here is going to be.....do you think the walls will all start peeling or falling to pieces?? Because from my "1st hand experience" learned from an actual expert..(about 45 years experience) The only problem Iv ever come across is having to use less paint. hmmm

Ya in your previous post you stated you needed to use 4-5 coats so he must have been a great teacher,i think ill stick to how i do it.

650gs

Better to read the manufacturers instructions on the paint tin ?????????

paddy147

brendankelly wrote: »

I knew that because no architect or project manager worth their salt would sign off on sealing plaster in any building. You should have a word with your builder because using sand and cement plaster or gypsum in an old house is not recommended

There were some parts of plaster that were falling away from the wall,mainly the entire staircase and landing area.All the old plaster was hacked away to reveal bare brick wall.

Then the walls were slabbed out with mushrooming and also bonding the boards to the walls.

These boards were then skimmed over.

The rooms that had good original plaster were sealed with a green and blue thislebond solution that had some sort of sand/grit in it,this was left to dry in and then these rooms were replastered.

Its all dried out now and its looks great,everything is so smooth and neat.

It all just needs to be painted now.

Paul.C

650gs wrote: »

If you polybond and there is any dampness even a small spot you will seal it in and it will bilster later 100%

If there is dampness then sealed or not it will have to be corrected so again no gain no loss

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

Ya in your previous post you stated you needed to use 4-5 coats so he must have been a great teacher,i think ill stick to how i do it.

Work away, Im not saying your wrong... I never did, Im saying im not wrong and neither are the millions of painters out there that do the same. I have never seen a bad result from this, so please explain to me why its the wrong way of doing it? Are the walls gonna fall down, at worst the paint can chip back to the plaster but thats only if you mix it to thick

brendankelly

The job is done so there is no point discussing it farther. In my opinion and I am sorry to say this, your builder and Paul C seem to be of the same mind set. I.E. if it stays up long enough for them to cash their cheques it is fine.

irelandspurs

DON'T USE POLYBOND. Polybond will seal the plaster alright but the paint will take many coats to cover the polybond,all that is needed is thinned down matt emulsion and it doesn't need to be thinned alot.

paddy147

brendankelly wrote: »

The job is done so there is no point discussing it farther. In my opinion and I am sorry to say this, your builder and Paul C seem to be of the same mind set. I.E. if it stays up long enough for them to cash their cheques it is fine.

Brendan,sorry to say this,but........

..........WTF are you on about my builder for????

This has absolutely nothing to do with him or my own house.

I allready stated (in a previous post) that my own house is built and finished and this is a different house/2nd house (mid 1940s) that was replastered by a PLASTERER and nothing to do with my builder.

So why bring my builder into this matter?????


Why you are commenting on my builder is beyond me and its a pointless comment to make too.

michael999999

Some people just dont want to be helped!

paddy147

michael999999 wrote: »

Some people just dont want to be helped!

And some people just presume,but dont actually read what was posted.

brendankelly

Thanks michael. Snapped at me just because I tried to help


I assumed it was some one that called themselves a builder when it was not an arct or project manager that authorised mushrooming plasterboard to bricks and sealed up the original lime plaster.

And me after turning on my pc expecting a heap of praise for advising him not to put polly bond on the few bits of plaster that might still be breathable.

michael999999

brendankelly wrote: »

Thanks michael. Snapped at me just because I tried to help


I assumed it was some one that called themselves a builder when it was not an arct or project manager that authorised mushrooming plasterboard to bricks and sealed up the original lime plaster.

And me after turning on my pc expecting a heap of praise for advising him not to put polly bond on the few bits of plaster that might still be breathable.

Like yourself Brendan, Im just a fully qualified painter,who was foreman for one of the biggest painting contractors in munster. What the hell would i know about painting!

paddy147

brendankelly wrote: »

Thanks michael. Snapped at me just because I tried to help


I assumed it was some one that called themselves a builder when it was not an arct or project manager that authorised mushrooming plasterboard to bricks and sealed up the original lime plaster.

And me after turning on my pc expecting a heap of praise for advising him not to put polly bond on the few bits of plaster that might still be breathable.

Brendan,I have not snapped at you as you now like to claim.

You just jumped in and "presumed",and also made a false claim about my builder too,without reading what was posted originally.

Its a plasterer that replastered another house of mine,nothing to do with my architect,or my builder.

A single plasterer and no one else or nothing more than that.


Thanks for the advice given,but keep to the facts and dont make false/untrue claims about people who are not involved in this,in any way,shape or form.

Regards.

P.S-Get down off that high horse of yours,regarding the comment about expecting praize.

brendankelly

Paddy. First WTF is a snap.

Next lets recap.
You asked for advice and you got 2 conflicting pieces. You were all thanks to Paul while you were ignoring the, (what we all now know) sound advice from myself and Michael. I suggested you ask your Arch or PM because they would share our advice and you replied that you had neither. I did assume that you were not the builder based on the fact that you asked a question any builder would know.

Ok we are now left with No arch, no builder, no project manager just someone that plastered over everything and then tells you to put pollybond over all the plaster.

What have I missed in this?????????//

Regards

PS thanks for thanking me for the advice

paddy147

brendankelly wrote: »

Paddy. First WTF is a snap.

Next lets recap.
You asked for advice and you got 2 conflicting pieces. You were all thanks to Paul while you were ignoring the, (what we all now know) sound advice from myself and Michael. I suggested you ask your Arch or PM because they would share our advice and you replied that you had neither. I did assume that you were not the builder based on the fact that you asked a question any builder would know.

Ok we are now left with No arch, no builder, no project manager just someone that plastered over everything and then tells you to put pollybond over all the plaster.

What have I missed in this?????????//

Regards

PS thanks for thanking me for the advice

Brendan.....WTF is in relation to you going on about my builder and making false claims about him,when NO ONE EXCEPT YOU mentioned him in the 1st place.

My builder has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or my other house getting replasterd.How many times do you need to be told that????

You have simpley jumped the gun and presumed and made false claims about someone,without even properly reading what was posted.

Thats what the WTF is in relation to......You jumping in and presuming,without reading.

Try actually reading what is posted before making more false claims in future.

Do me favour and SHUT UP going on about builders,architects and project managers and so on.

No one is talking about them here,except you.

A plasterer came in and replastered another house that I own,its as simple as that.

So leave my builder and architects and project managers and others out of it.

Re-read and cop on for once.

Stop expecting praize just because you posted a reply.Grow up

brendankelly

Are you the same Paddy that wrote this?? or have you a tooth ache or something???

paddy147 wrote: »

Right so.talking to a painter who lives down the road from me,this morning.

He gave me this 5 litre tub of stuff for free and said to dilute it and just roller it on.

I have 3 questions

1-Is this the right stuff to use?

2-This isnt polybond then,is it?

3-What instruction listed below is most suited to fresh plastered internal walls?

Thanks.:)

P.S-Please excuse all the questions,Im not a painter,so I would rather seem silly and ask all the questions here 1st,before painting or doing anything.

paddy147

brendankelly wrote: »

Are you the same Paddy that wrote this?? or have you a tooth ache or something???

Yes I asked and posted that,of course I did.
So whats your point?????


So you posted a reply and posted some advice.....Woop Dee Doo,WOW.

You dont do something or post something back just to get or expect a favour or praise back in return (unlike you,whinging on about you not getting praise for posting a reply).Try learning that and understanding that.

Now,as for myself..........

Am I a plasterer?......NO

Am I a painter?........NO

Im an ordinary chap who asked a question,but who didnt expect someone like you to come barging in without reading what was posted by me,then bring in my builder,architects and project managers and make false claims in the process aswell.

None of these people have anything to do with this,so SHUT UP going on about them.

So wize up and cop on,and dont be bringing in people who have nothing to do with this and making false statements and claims about them

Cop on.You aint anything special here,just another normal,general member of this forum,like all of us are.

You want Praise??.....yeah right,sure,whatever,keep on dreaming there.

Im done speaking and posting to you now.

cardwizzard

I'm a little bit afraid to post this:rolleyes:, just kidding.

Paddy if I were you i'd water down my emulsion by about 20% with a drop of clean water. If you read the side of most buckets of paint, companies will recommend or allow this. While it is possible to put it on 'straight' alot of painters let it out a touch for the first coat. This will act as a type of primer to the plaster much as a primer will work to woodwork.

Polybond will seal the wall entirely and while giving grip to the paint may need more coats and not be as breathable.

Either way, it wont make a massive difference. If you try two walls first, doing one with polybond, one without, and see which you are happiest with it may be the way to go.

PVA is bascially the same gear.

Hope this helps.

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

Like yourself Brendan, Im just a fully qualified painter,who was foreman for one of the biggest painting contractors in munster. What the hell would i know about painting!

Wow your amazing:eek::rolleyes:.

So what! I was a carpentry foreman with a company for 6 years and have been in this game for about 13 years. whop di do, I wouldnt imagine organising a bunch of painters would really be that hard. Sure a monkey could paint:p

Painting is the handiest number on a site, It doesnt require a lot of skill, all it really requires is someone that doesnt mind staring at a wall for their entire life and not really challenging themselves. I think your feel the need to have an argument so as people may think there is some kind of skill and thought behind it.

If you two lads need a bloody architect, foreman, project manager to hold your handy while you paint then there is something wrong. As I have stated before loads of people use this process on new plaster and its FINE.
Again you fail to come up with a reason as to why not to do it but stand by your arrogant opinion that because you dont do it then it must be wrong.

I really dont understand why your getting so touchy over a difference of opinion when you only use one technique and have no experience of the other. Your commenting on a technique that you dont really have an educated opinion on. Again... 15 years does not make you the expert, if you think that it does then your obviously another tradesman who thinks he knows it all but really doesnt. Nobody in any trade knows everything or will ever know everything. You will still be learning when you retire and if your not then your brain isnt functioning properly

Stop pretending there is so much behind being a painter because there really isnt.

As for that comment earlier saying im another one of them that waits for the check and fecks off...........em no, you couldnt have got it more wrong. I have always and will always stand proudly over my work and will always rectify any problems properly. Why??? because Im honest. I have walked away from employers in the past for trying to con people and would never try to be dishonest with people:mad: FULL STOP

Oh and if your just posting at this stage to thank each other then dont bother there are no prizes for it:rolleyes:

AckwelFoley

Ok, getting to heated here to be honest.

I worked in a hardware store for many years and in that time my i was looking after the buying and selling of paint over a 10 year period.

There are some that will say you can paint the pva onto the wall diluted, but the most including myself will tell you not to... this is not just my opinion but the opinion and advice of the manufacturers of the paint.

Polybond / pva.. polybond is a brandname pva is the ingredient.. its essentially wood glue without the extra ingredients in it.

You can add polybond to the paint, ive never done it, nor seen anyone do it but it can be done for better adhesion.

The reason you dont put polybond on a wall before you paint is because it actually has the reverse effect of what you are putting it on for! Its a glue, but once dried it glosses, leaving the wall with a glossier finish, this does seal the wall, but the paint does not key, or grip the dried pva as well as it would if it is soaked into the wall ie, a slush coat.

The same is with when you tile a floor, if you are to use pva on ply you must apply the adhesive before the pva dries fully, if you let it dry it has the oppsite effect.
PVA (Polyvinyl acetates) is the glue name...as it says in the name - its a vinyl, and vinyl is as anyone knows... a shiney surface. If you ever open the tin, and pour some out raw, it dries opaque, no clear, but close.. run your hand on it, and its smooth and shiney because of the vinyl..

Bottom line is, in my years, ive seen issues with people painting pva onto a wall and then pinting over it after, and then there is blisterng problems etc.. the paint companies dont want to know about it id pva has been used prior to painting the wall.

If you use the pva, and it has worked, so be it, but i certainly wouldnt advise using it for that purpose

Spread

Just to add to snyper's post ........ the reason that you dilute the first coat is so it will soak into the wall and thus stop the plaster sucking the moisture out of it. If you paint a diluted PVA, this will dry out to be what will resemble a thin film of polythene. Lovely to paint on but if snagged by something sharp is liable to tear away ...... just as if you had painted on polythene.

brendankelly

At the risk of been snapped at again I will thank snyper and Spread for their correct posts. The comment about monkeys is a bit rich coming from some one that told the OP to put PVA over the plaster.

While the opinions of snyper and spread (in my opinion) are 100% correct the other aspect is that to seal plaster with pvc/plastic in a timber frame house can lead to mould and dry rot.