Is it morally wrong to buy weed?

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

Would it not be morally right to try and change the law to prevent that occurring, as with the record it carries too ?

Answer a question with a question.
You've been hanging around with your solicitor friend too long.
Carry on.

tayto lover

mikom wrote: »

Question with a question.
You've been hanging around with your solicitor friend too long.
Carry on.

Maybe so but but they are two sides of the same coin.

Seachmall

Herb Powell wrote: »

It's illegality surely drives prices up

Definitely. To grow your own cannabis is about a 300 euro initial cost with electricity charges (about 60 euro for 4 months) and occasional expenses for fertilizers and such (about 40 euro for 4 months). And assuming you produce an ounce each time then that's ~400 euro for your first ounce and 100 euro for every ounce after that (remove the initial cost).

So, that works out at about 14 euro per gram for the first grow and 3.50 euro for every gram after that. In a large commercial grow it'd probably only cost about 2 euro per gram.

And how much are we paying per gram now? Too ****ing much. Even if the Government taxed the **** out of it it wouldn't be as expensive as it is now, not to mention it'd be better quality from reputable growers with vast selections who wouldn't fund crime.

* The electricity charges are very rough estimates using 2 fluorescent lights on for 18 hours and 2 incandescent lights on for 6 hours. The bare minimum for vegetative stage.

That could all easily be completely wrong. Just so ya know, it's only rough estimates.

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe so but but they are two sides of the same coin.

Is that the coin you flip on the golf course to see who tees off first?

To be honest you sound a bit detached from the common man on the street.
It's a shame really.

ScumLord

tayto lover wrote: »

I am only showing the many different aspects to the cannabis debate. I am sure you agree that there are many and varied opinions and different moral issues on buying, using in front of kids, health, driving under influence of it, law on possession/supply, searches etc etc. Not trolling but we all seem to be going round in circles at the same time.

I really don't see these as moral issues. There are very good and valid reasons for not using a drug at certain times but it's not down to moral issues they are issues of safety. The rest are commercial issues (if the drug were legal).

People are going to use drugs, that's a fact of life and human nature. As we've seen over the past few decades we can't stop that with legislation. Prohibition is a new enough thing it changed the issue from being about the effects of a drug on a person life and on society at large. It was a simple issue of addition now we've turned it into a war where we've challenged anyone in the world to fight us and put up the prise of a billion dollar unregulated industry for anyone with the balls to challenge the law.

The prohibition laws are the route cause of the problem, drugs have been around since the beginning of time without the problems we see today and to blame the chemicals is absurd.

skregs

Only commoners smoke weed, so who cares if they go to prison?

ScumLord

Seachmall wrote: »

And how much are we paying per gram now? Too ****ing much. Even if the Government taxed the **** out of it it wouldn't be as expensive as it is now.

Most definitely, there's a 15% tax on cannabis in the Netherlands and it's still half the price it is here despite the fact it's being grown in illegal grow ops.

With proper commercial growing the price would be much lower again even with a 15% tax imposed.

Seachmall

skregs wrote: »

Only commoners smoke weed, so who cares if they go to prison?

I concur.

Now if you don't mind my cocaine won't snort itself! G'day gentlemen.

mikom

skregs wrote: »

Only commoners smoke weed, so who cares if they go to prison?

*Look of surprise*
*Monocle drops into sand bunker*

tayto lover

mikom wrote: »

Is that the coin you flip on the golf course to see who tees off first?

To be honest you sound a bit detached from the common man on the street.
It's a shame really.

I am actually quite connected and not above or below any man.
I do not insult posters at all but i challenge their views and their morals.

haydar

Hey, I play a lot of golf and smoke weed most of the time playing it.

What am I?

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

I am actually quite connected and not above or below any man.
I do not insult posters at all but i challenge their views and their morals.

That's just the crisp lover in you coming out.

haydar

haydar wrote: »

Hey, I play a lot of golf and smoke weed most of the time playing it.

What am I?

A stoner with an XBox and a copy of Tiger Woods PGA 2011.

tayto lover

ScumLord wrote: »

I really don't see these as moral issues. There are very good and valid reasons for not using a drug at certain times but it's not down to moral issues they are issues of safety. The rest are commercial issues (if the drug were legal).

People are going to use drugs, that's a fact of life and human nature. As we've seen over the past few decades we can't stop that with legislation. Prohibition is a new enough thing it changed the issue from being about the effects of a drug on a person life and on society at large. It was a simple issue of addition now we've turned it into a war where we've challenged anyone in the world to fight us and put up the prise of a billion dollar unregulated industry for anyone with the balls to challenge the law.

The prohibition laws are the route cause of the problem, drugs have been around since the beginning of time without the problems we see today and to blame the chemicals is absurd.

Yet you see drugs being used as an excuse in court cases for murder, serious assault etc. "I did not know what i was doing judge as i was under the influence at the time" or "i robbed the shop because i needed money to feed my habit ". I suppose it is unfortunate though.

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

I am actually quite connected and not above or below any man.

Well you seem to think you are morally above a man who smokes/buys weed.
If you believe it immoral and you don't do it then you must be moral.
Surely a moral man is above an immoral man....... morally speaking

tayto lover wrote: »

I do not insult posters at all but i challenge their views and their morals.

You are happy with the laws are they are, otherwise you would be challenging them.
You are Mr Status Quo.......... so much so that Rick Parfitt bows down to you.

tayto lover wrote: »

Yet you see drugs being used as an excuse in court cases for murder, serious assault etc. "I did not know what i was doing judge as i was under the influence at the time" or "i robbed the shop because i needed money to feed my habit ". I suppose it is unfortunate though.

Might as well outlaw drink, ADHD, and single parent families so.

tayto lover

mikom wrote: »

Is that the coin you flip on the golf course to see who tees off first?

To be honest you sound a bit detached from the common man on the street.
It's a shame really.

I am not detached at all.
Never attack the poster because you disagree with him, just the post.
I am a common man myself.

Orando Broom

gladi8r wrote: »

considering you are probably giving the money to thugs who murder people and terrorize neighborhoods, is it wrong in your opinion to buy weed?

when i talk about these "thugs" I am talking about the people on top who import the weed not the small time dealers who sell it to you

Yes buy weed and you fund drug dealers. There is no obfuscation on the issue. Stoners try to but most rational people see through their guff.

ScumLord

tayto lover wrote: »

Yet you see drugs being used as an excuse in court cases for murder, serious assault etc. "I did not know what i was doing judge as i was under the influence at the time" or "i robbed the shop because i needed money to feed my habit ". I suppose it is unfortunate though.

I don't think you can use drugs as a valid excuse and if it is used it should bring up other questions like does the person lose the run of themselves every time they take drugs? If the answer is yes then they knew before taking the drug they'd lose the run of themselves and are therefore fully responsible for anything they did under the influence. Problems with drug doses and reactions can be reduced through proper education about how to use the drug and how much of it to take.


People that are addicted to a drug and it's affecting their lifestyle are just as much a victim of prohibition as they are of drugs. Addiction is a problem we know how to deal with, they shouldn't need to go out robbing and I think it's mostly a certain type of person that does resort to robbing and violence, it's not the default option for an addict.

tayto lover

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think you can use drugs as a valid excuse and if it is used it should bring up other questions like does the person lose the run of themselves every time they take drugs? If the answer is yes then they knew before taking the drug they'd lose the run of themselves and are therefore fully responsible for anything they did under the influence. Problems with drug doses and reactions can be reduced through proper education about how to use the drug and how much of it to take.


People that are addicted to a drug and it's affecting their lifestyle are just as much a victim of prohibition as they are of drugs. Addiction is a problem we know how to deal with, they shouldn't need to go out robbing and I think it's mostly a certain type of person that does resort to robbing and violence, it's not the default option for an addict.

Maybe those "excuses" should be challenged in the courts. However there was a young lady on the radio debate who claimed to be spending 300e per week on cannabis and who claimed to be addicted and feeling paranoid through its use. She said she was hooked and needed help badly. Many still say its not addictive.

Seachmall

Orando Broom wrote: »

There is no obfuscation on the issue.

I know people who know people who may, hypothetically, know people who grow weed.

And those hypothetical people are not involved in any other crime outside of actually growing and selling their own weed. Hypothetically of course.

So it depends on who you're buying it off.

haydar

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe those "excuses" should be challenged in the courts. However there was a young lady on the radio debate who claimed to be spending 300e per week on cannabis and who claimed to be addicted and feeling paranoid through its use. She said she was hooked and needed help badly. Many still say its not addictive.

Its not physically addictive, its mentally addictive. Your body doesn't need it.

Anything can be mentally addictive e.g. food, but it still needs to be treated.

twinQuins

How many more people beat their spouses, children and countless other innocents because of the effects of alcohol? How many have left their families destitute because they need to use every last penny to fund their alcoholism?

How dare you preach about the suffering illegal drugs have caused when we have legal ones that have caused just as much.
Maybe you should climb down from your high horse and see the real world instead of the idealised dream you've seemingly constructed for yourself.

ScumLord

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe those "excuses" should be challenged in the courts. However there was a young lady on the radio debate who claimed to be spending 300e per week on cannabis and who claimed to be addicted and feeling paranoid through its use. She said she was hooked and needed help badly. Many still say its not addictive.

It can be habit forming, because there's no big come down effect with weed like getting a mind splitting headaches or gut wrenching stomach pains people use it more readily but it's not going to have massive withdrawal symptoms other than really wanting to have a spliff.

€300 seems like it could be a lot but it depends how she's buying it, she may be depressed and looking for help and this is her outlet to give her some other valid reason to ask for help.

Although she could be using 1 once of it a week which is a huge amount to be going through a week, it very well could be messing up her head. It sounds like drug abuse which is usually caused by some other problem. The drug isn't the problem it's just being abused by someone that may well be suffering because of something else.

Laisurg

tayto lover wrote: »

1 That situation has occurred with gay men in the past. If it was illegal then it and they received a conviction i'm sure they would have felt bad. Looking at old cases many did plead guilty because the law as it stood made them guilty. They have my sympathy but it was the law at the time.

2. All illegal drugs were made illegal because they were found (by the medical profession) to be dangerous. Thats why some drugs are legal and others not.
It will take new research by the same medical profession to change the law and make it legal. Nothing to do with me or you at all.

Cannabis was made illegal in the 1930s, do you think they had access to scientific facility's to test that it was actually dangerous?
Cannabis was made illegal in the states because white women were going to jazz clubs and smoking cannabis, they then decided to have sex with some of the african jazz musicians, those who got pregnant would have been seen as a whore and their families would have never accepted them back into their family.
They said they were drugged and raped to avoid this.
This is one of the main reasons why cannabis was originally made illegal in the states, the refer madness idea was another reason and the reason why it was made illegal in all other countries, it had absolutely nothing to do with medical studies.

VW 1

Orando Broom wrote: »

Yes buy weed and you fund drug dealers. There is no obfuscation on the issue. Stoners try to but most rational people see through their guff.

Buy alcohol and fund alcohol dealers. Is there any difference other than one is against the law in this country? If weed were made legal and regulated, there would be zero difference between weed sellers and alcohol sellers.

tayto lover

twinQuins wrote: »

How many more people beat their spouses, children and countless other innocents because of the effects of alcohol? How many have left their families destitute because they need to use every last penny to fund their alcoholism?

How dare you preach about the suffering illegal drugs have caused when we have legal ones that have caused just as much.
Maybe you should climb down from your high horse and see the real world instead of the idealised dream you've seemingly constructed for yourself.

Is it now only alcoholics who leave their families destitute ?
I am not preaching at all, only giving opinions and making points. If you attended a neighbourhood drugs meeting years ago you would realise that my comments are mild.
I do not have a dreamworld. These matters are part of the debate on drugs which i, once agai, did not start but am just taking part in. If you want a one-sided discussion then you are in the wrong place. I am also well aware of the trouble legalised drugs cause.

tayto lover

ScumLord wrote: »

It can be habit forming, because there's no big come down effect with weed like getting a mind splitting headaches or gut wrenching stomach pains people use it more readily but it's not going to have massive withdrawal symptoms other than really wanting to have a spliff.

€300 seems like it could be a lot but it depends how she's buying it, she may be depressed and looking for help and this is her outlet to give her some other valid reason to ask for help.

Although she could be using 1 once of it a week which is a huge amount to be going through a week, it very well could be messing up her head. It sounds like drug abuse which is usually caused by some other problem. The drug isn't the problem it's just being abused by someone that may well be suffering because of something else.

Thats a very interesting point regarding the amount she claims to be taking. I am aware of several youngsters who take drugs because of abuse in early childhood. There should be better facilities and help for them. That girl last night was advised to contact N.A. and i hope she does.

thebigbiffo

ScumLord wrote: »

It can be habit forming, because there's no big come down effect with weed like getting a mind splitting headaches or gut wrenching stomach pains people use it more readily but it's not going to have massive withdrawal symptoms other than really wanting to have a spliff.

€300 seems like it could be a lot but it depends how she's buying it, she may be depressed and looking for help and this is her outlet to give her some other valid reason to ask for help.

Although she could be using 1 once of it a week which is a huge amount to be going through a week, it very well could be messing up her head. It sounds like drug abuse which is usually caused by some other problem. The drug isn't the problem it's just being abused by someone that may well be suffering because of something else.

let off the leash i could easily smoke an ounce in a week. now i'd want to be on an 'extended' holiday with plenty of cash but it doesn't nessesarily mean there's something wrong - it just means you like being stoned!

i'm trying to think if the above statement is wrong...and i dont think it is. yeah - i'd be stoned all the time but i can function very well stoned (wouldnt want to be working now mind). now compare that to alcohol. if you were drunk all the time you wouldn't be long about ruining your entire life and killing yourself. you couldn't actually have any quality of life at all whereas - as long as your lifestyle and disposition while stoned were ok - being stoned all the time might easily be done without very many side effects.

edit: but in relation to the woman cited above she obviously needs help...it's obviously causing her problems. my point was just that you could smoke that amount per week and NOT have something wrong with you!

tayto lover

thebigbiffo wrote: »

let off the leash i could easily smoke an ounce in a week. now i'd want to be on an 'extended' holiday with plenty of cash but it doesn't nessesarily mean there's something wrong - it just means you like being stoned!

i'm trying to think if the above statement is wrong...and i dont think it is. yeah - i'd be stoned all the time but i can function very well stoned (wouldnt want to be working now mind). now compare that to alcohol. if you were drunk all the time you wouldn't be long about ruining your entire life and killing yourself. you couldn't actually have any quality of life at all whereas - as long as your lifestyle and disposition while stoned were ok - being stoned all the time might easily be done without very many side effects.

Good points. I wonder should the people who make the laws be forced/allowed to try cannabis before making judgements as to its future legaliusation or continued illegality or will it be just left to the medical people.

Seachmall

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder should the people who make the laws be forced/allowed to try cannabis before making judgements as to its future legaliusation

I saw this in an episode of SpongeBob once but it was about crabby-patties. And I was stoned.