Is it morally wrong to buy weed?

investment

is it against the law to grow weed for yourself in your own house??

Thatnastyboy

tayto lover wrote: »

My reply seems to have been lost.
Force when its within the law is sometimes necessary. Thats why we have armies and police forces. If you are the subject of a raid because you are breaking the law then you have brought it on yourself. Sorry but they are the facts. Laws are laws and we cannot pick and choose which ones we want to obey.

Is the whole point of a democracy not that the people should decide what laws are there or not?

Age old laws like this should be discussed and re-voted on and not just pawned off with the: "it's the law, that's why"

It's a harmless enough argument to put forward really, it shows the lack of substance in the anti-cannabis side.

Apart from propaganda from the 50's and 60's, there is no real argument against the legalisation of cannabis, other than the fact that it's illegal.

Homosexuality was illegal, the people didn't like it, so they changed the law, what's the difference with cannabis?

tayto lover

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Is the whole point of a democracy not that the people should decide what laws are there or not?

Age old laws like this should be discussed and re-voted on and not just pawned off with the: "it's the law, that's why"

It's a harmless enough argument to put forward really, it shows the lack of substance in the anti-cannabis side.

Apart from propaganda from the 50's and 60's, there is no real argument against the legalisation of cannabis, other than the fact that it's illegal.

Homosexuality was illegal, the people didn't like it, so they changed the law, what's the difference with cannabis?

Harmless or not if you are caught you will get a criminal record and won't be allowed a travel visa. Not a good thing in this day and age. So if it is illegal now then it is morally wrong. If you were caught this week and the law was changed next week you would still have that criminal record. So if you are doing something that is criminally wrong and you have not been caught does that make you a moral criminal ?

Seachmall

tayto lover wrote: »

So if it is illegal now then it is morally wrong.

Not necessarily. Morals are really down to each individual to define for themselves. When we say "Social Morals" they're morals shared amongst the majority which are then enforced. That's not to say breaking those laws is immoral, just illegal.

The majority define the laws you have to live by, not the morals you have to live by.

Thatnastyboy

tayto lover wrote: »

Harmless or not if you are caught you will get a criminal record and won't be allowed a travel visa. Not a good thing in this day and age. So if it is illegal now then it is morally wrong. If you were caught this week and the law was changed next week you would still have that criminal record. So if you are doing something that is criminally wrong and you have not been caught does that make you a moral criminal ?

Is that an agreement or a counter-argument?

Laws and morals are very very different

It is criminally wrong, because of dated laws that clearly dont work.

Chuck Stone

tayto lover wrote: »

Harmless or not if you are caught you will get a criminal record and won't be allowed a travel visa. Not a good thing in this day and age

Can you see what's doing the harm here? It's the illegality - you are acknowledging this. Fair play.

So if it is illegal now then it is morally wrong.

No. It's 'morally wrong' to kick down someones door, kidnap them (assault them if they resist), and imprison them.

It's ridiculous stupid law which leads to violence and intrusion and hurts people who mean no harm to anyone.

baldbear

investment wrote: »

is it against the law to grow weed for yourself in your own house??

Yes. It's legal to buy cannabis seeds online for souvenir purposes but its illegal to germinate the seeds!!

Holands hope are good sovenir seeds to buy.:p

tayto lover

Seachmall wrote: »

Laws are supposed to be an enforced representation of a society's morals, or at least the majority of those in the society. If laws are too slow to catch up with those morals they are insignificant and will eventually be overturned.

My point is that laws do become irrelevant even if they are still technically laws. In these instances the majority pick and choose which laws to obey. Laws are only relevant as long as people want them enforced.

Of course this doesn't really relate to cannabis but your "Laws are Laws" idea is too simplistic and not realistic, people have been picking and choosing laws for centuries, it's what causes social and legal advancements.

Is it not necessary to hold a referendum to change or abolish a law ?
I voted NO to the Lisbon Treaty but it was eventually voted in so i have to obey it now whether i like it or not. Same with the drug laws.

Seachmall

baldbear wrote: »

Yes. It's legal to buy cannabis seeds online for souvenir purposes but its illegal to germinate the seeds!!

Holands hope are good sovenir seeds to buy.:p

Cannabis seeds have on of the highest natural source of protein per gram. Great for throwing on top of a salad .

tayto lover wrote:

Is it not necessary to hold a referendum to change or abolish a law ?

That is one way. The other is by collectively telling law makers to fuck off, but I don't imagine there'd ever be such a large concensious about a law that wouldn't have already changed.

In the states there are state laws that say if a Jury deliver a protest vote of Not Guilty a certain amount of times in different trials that law is immediately over-turned without referendum, I don't think Ireland has a similar one (although it's possible). I'll try and pull up the law but for the time being take this with a grain of salt.

I voted NO to the Lisbon Treaty but it was eventually voted in so i have to obey it now whether i like it or not. Same with the drug laws.

Yep, of course you can break laws as long as you're willing to deal with the consequences. For pot smoking the consequences are quite low so **** it. Take the risk if you want.

mikom

Is it immoral to question laws?

tayto lover

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Can you see what's doing the harm here? It's the illegality - you are acknowledging this. Fair play.



No. It's 'morally wrong' to kick down someones door, kidnap them (assault them if they resist), and imprison them.

It's ridiculous stupid law which leads to violence and intrusion and hurts people who mean no harm to anyone.

So is it no harm to have an unlicenced firearm as long as you only use it for target practice ?

investment

baldbear wrote: »

Yes. It's legal to buy cannabis seeds online for souvenir purposes but its illegal to germinate the seeds!!

Holands hope are good sovenir seeds to buy.:p

why does ming not go to jail then? I'm confused

tayto lover

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Is that an agreement or a counter-argument?

Laws and morals are very very different

It is criminally wrong, because of dated laws that clearly dont work.

You can't get a conviction in court for breaking a moral but you can for breaking a law. Statute Books and so on.

Hookah

tayto lover wrote: »

So is it no harm to have an unlicenced firearm as long as you only use it for target practice ?

You make it sound fairly harmless.

Hookah

tayto lover wrote: »

You can't get a conviction in court for breaking a moral but you can for breaking a law. Statute Books and so on.

Cannabis is illegal?

Chuck Stone

tayto lover wrote: »

Chuck Stone wrote: »

So is it no harm to have an unlicenced firearm as long as you only use it for target practice ?

It's a little different but a good question nonetheless

A gun is a lethal weapon and if stolen it could be used to kill people or commit real crimes like murder.

Weed? You can't kill someone by throwing bits of plants at them.

It's very different. Licensing of weapons is probably a good idea.

I personally wouldn't stand in your way if you wanted to own a gun as long as my safety isn't compromised and I don't think others should either.

tayto lover

Chuck Stone wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

It's a little different but a good question nonetheless

A gun is a lethal weapon and if stolen it could be used to kill people or commit real crimes like murder.

Weed? You can't kill someone by throwing bits of plants at them.

It's very different. Licensing of weapons is probably a good idea.

I personally wouldn't stand in your way if you wanted to own a gun as long as my safety isn't compromised and I don't think others should either.

My point is that they are BOTH against the law and will remain so until we have a change in the law. You will find, however, that most of drug gangs will have unlicenced guns to protect their "interests" so maybe the question is appropriate.
Getting back to the point of the thread i still believe it is morally wrong to use an illegal substance and that somewhere along the line someone somewhere got hurt by it.

Hookah

tayto lover wrote: »

My point is that they are BOTH against the law and will remain so until we have a change in the law. You will find, however, that most of drug gangs will have unlicenced guns to protect their "interests" so maybe the question is appropriate.
Getting back to the point of the thread i still believe it is morally wrong to use an illegal substance and that somewhere along the line someone somewhere got hurt by it.

The argument's probably been used already, but do you feel it's morally wrong to use your mobile phone, one of the key components of which is coltan, which is primarily found in the Congo, where war rages for control of said resource, which includes the daily rape of scores of women, not to mention the use of child soldiers etc.?

Seachmall

Seachmall wrote: »

In the states there are state laws that say if a Jury deliver a protest vote of Not Guilty a certain amount of times in different trials that law is immediately over-turned without referendum, I don't think Ireland has a similar one (although it's possible). I'll try and pull up the law but for the time being take this with a grain of salt.

Jury Nullification.

Not sure of it's stance in Ireland though, probably limited.

Thatnastyboy

tayto lover wrote: »

somewhere along the line someone somewhere got hurt by it.

same could be said about anything really..

I presume you use electronic devices? wear clothes? drink softdrinks?

should they all be made illegal?

tayto lover

Hookah wrote: »

The argument's probably been used already, but do you feel it's morally wrong to use your mobile phone, one of the key components of which is coltan, which is primarily found in the Congo, where war rages for control of said resource, which includes the daily rape of scores of women, not to mention the use of child soldiers etc.?

To be honest i have not read or heard of that before but i will check it out. If i find that its true i will take any appropriate action necessary inc of doing away with my phone. Seriously. Have you a web address for that. I did not know there was an illegal substance in a phone.

tayto lover

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

same could be said about anything really..

I presume you use electronic devices? wear clothes? drink softdrinks?

should they all be made illegal?

I would hate for anyone to see me without my clothes.

Hookah

tayto lover wrote: »

To be honest i have not read or heard of that before but i will check it out. If i find that its true i will take any appropriate action necessary inc of doing away with my phone. Seriously. Have you a web address for that. I did not know there was an illegal substance in a phone.

It's not an illegal substance, it's immorally acquired.

The thread is about morals, and not illegality.

tayto lover

Hookah wrote: »

It's not an illegal substance.

It's immorally acquired.

The thread is about morals, and not illegality.

The capacitor in my phone came from Canada it seems and was not immorally obtained.
You will find that morals, ethics and laws are closely associated.

Thatnastyboy

tayto lover wrote: »

I would hate for anyone to see me without my clothes.

Good rebuke.

Are you trolling?

Hookah

tayto lover wrote: »

The capacitor in my phone came from Canada it seems and was not immorally obtained.
You will find that morals, ethics and laws are closely associated.

You will find there's an 80% chance the coltan in your capacitor came from the Congo.

And if not your mobile phone, then your Ipod etc.

Are you prepared to give up your electronic devices given the high degree of probability that they're enabled by an extremely immorally acquired substance?

tayto lover

Hookah wrote: »

You will find there's an 80% chance the coltan in your capacitor came from the Congo.

And if not your mobile phone, then your Ipod etc.

Are you prepared to give up your electronic devices given the high degree of probability that they're enabled by an extremely immorally acquired substance?

Of course.

Hookah

tayto lover wrote: »

Of course.

Then smash up your computer fortwith.

Good on you for your stance.

baldbear

investment wrote: »

why does ming not go to jail then? I'm confused

He did in his younger days for about 4 days. He put up cannabis campaign posters and refused to take them down and got jailed. But not for growing. He says he has stopped growing now.

It's mad anyway that the government can jail someone for growing a harmless plant. And l

Laisurg

tayto lover wrote: »

Harmless or not if you are caught you will get a criminal record and won't be allowed a travel visa. Not a good thing in this day and age. So if it is illegal now then it is morally wrong. If you were caught this week and the law was changed next week you would still have that criminal record. So if you are doing something that is criminally wrong and you have not been caught does that make you a moral criminal ?

An unjust law is an unjust law, as i said before around 90 years ago women were not allowed to vote, it was still the law but it was hardly fair, and as someone else pointed out not too long ago homosexuality was illegal, these laws were unjust and were changed, just because something is the law does not make it right.
The laws themselves are morally wrong, if I as an adult can make a decision to go into a shop and buy something which kills millions of people every year then i should be allowed to buy and ingest a substance that is relatively harmless in comparison which I enjoy.

The ball is already rolling anyway, cannabis was recently decriminalized in portugal and uruguay and that's going very well for them, eventually it will be decriminalized in more countries and one day i think it will be here, there's now 3 members of the dail who are in support of legalization and while thats not many there was none who said openly that they supported it in the last dail.