Bushmaster Ar15/M4 in .223, opinions?

kwalsh000

Hey all,

I know in general the Ar15/M4/M16 etc topic has been done to death but I am more interested in hearing does anyone own one of the above and how do they rate it both in use and if so was it from the US they got it (through a local dealer) or any other brands?

I am looking at getting my first gun rifle for target shooting down the line and having shot a few .22 rifles, 9mm, .45s and a couple of M4's, Bushmaster one being the latest (think it was 5.56) and it just felt so comerfortable to shoot and very accurate with the sights on the gun (for a beginner at least)

I know it needs to be a restricted licence due to reasons like the pistol grip, stock etc and its the i dont like the look of that category. But any ones personal opinions with one of these in the long term would be great

Thanks!

Tackleberrywho

kwalsh000 wrote: »

Hey all,

I know in general the Ar15/M4/M16 etc topic has been done to death but I am more interested in hearing does anyone own one of the above and how do they rate it both in use and if so was it from the US they got it (through a local dealer) or any other brands?

I am looking at getting my first gun rifle for target shooting down the line and having shot a few .22 rifles, 9mm, .45s and a couple of M4's, Bushmaster one being the latest (think it was 5.56) and it just felt so comerfortable to shoot and very accurate with the sights on the gun (for a beginner at least)

I know it needs to be a restricted licence due to reasons like the pistol grip, stock etc and its the i dont like the look of that category. But any ones personal opinions with one of these in the long term would be great

Thanks!

One guy I know from our club has a similar rifle, and gunhappy.ie has a similar rifle also. Not AR's but .223 Semi Auto's

I don't know has anyone got one recently.
Oberland arms in Germany sell IMHO a better version, i know of 5 or 6 in the country tops that own a Semi AR variant. Dwight off here uses a R-15 which is a knock off AR, very light weight in comparison
Very expensive for plinking and not good enough for Target (possibly gallery Rifle)

I'd like the idea of a whizz bang .223 S/A but the hassle involved and the price of a good one is prohibitive

For the same money you would get a serious Target rifle capable of entering 1000 yard comps eg Savage FTR(yes Ezridax has one, I don't like them; but they do shoot well)

Just my thoughts, I own one restricted firearm and can vouch for the hassle they are in getting & holding on to

Sparks

Pretty sure there's at least two AR-types licenced in Ireland at the moment...

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

Pretty sure there's at least two AR-types licenced in Ireland at the moment...

Well I held an AR and an Oberland in Athlone, I know of 3 guys that have .223 Semi auto's

What I would like to know has anyone licensed one in the past 6 months to a year.

**Fresh application not substitution**



I'd like this myself. I almost bought one a few years back in the celtic tiger era

Grizzly 45

Of the ABC of the AR platforms [Armalite,Bushmaster,Colt] it is still in the top three.Bushmaster is making the Remington R seris rifles R15/R25.
So they are a very good rifle,albiet a PITA to get in here.Dont bother trying for an M4 ..Thats a select fire rifle:D.
Oberland arms are very good precision made in Germany rifles,but INMHO over priced for what they are.For the prices of one of them you might as well be looking at SIG 550s or their new AR platform or HK AR platforms.
Which will do the same job,with more reliability.
I would poke about here for an R15 ,and then when you fancy it..Trick out the gun to what you want it to be.Works out about the same price,with somwhat less hassle of importing it.:)

Tackleberrywho

Main reason I did not buy Oberland
PRICE

I got a nightforce scope for my remmy .223 instead and never looked back.

I have not bought a new gun since 2008, whats wrong?? (Oh yeah, recession)

An R-25 in 7mm-08 would be nice for pric*ing around with

FISMA

Bushmaster makes a fine firearm. They are probably the most bang for the buck in the states.

The Colt AR's, like the Match Target, carries a premium for the kicking bronco.

Another good brand is DPMS. Don't overlook them as they build a great firearm as well.

Of course the Armalites are great as well.

You really cannot go wrong with any of the above. You'll pay the most for the Colt name, but it was their design.

In the states, supplies of these receivers dried up about two years ago. People were buying and hoarding receivers, which were about $100 - $150.

Once you had the receiver, you could go online, in most states, and purchase everything else you needed.

Supply lines appear to have opened up a bit and

A nice link to rifles >>

A nice link to lowers >>

kwalsh000

Thanks for the tips and advice lads, very much appreciated.

I did see the Oberlands and they do look very nice but very pricey aswell.

The Bushmaster seems to be the best in between choice aswell as price esp on the link posted (thanks FISMA) there is some nice prices. I would be aimng for a pretty standard kit just a scope down the line on it thats bout it.

I will keep an eye out for any over here but i have a feeling that it may be a good bit cheaper getting one imported (more hassle but cheaper in long term)

Thanks again everyone

Tackleberrywho

kwalsh000 wrote: »

Thanks for the tips and advice lads, very much appreciated.

I did see the Oberlands and they do look very nice but very pricey aswell.

The Bushmaster seems to be the best in between choice aswell as price esp on the link posted (thanks FISMA) there is some nice prices. I would be aimng for a pretty standard kit just a scope down the line on it thats bout it.

I will keep an eye out for any over here but i have a feeling that it may be a good bit cheaper getting one imported (more hassle but cheaper in long term)

Thanks again everyone

As your FO before you even consider buying one, will you be allowed license one!!

kwalsh000

Thanks Already on it

Tackleberrywho

kwalsh000 wrote: »

Thanks Already on it

Remember yer man from Boyzone years ago bought a fast car and no insurance company would insure him because he was under 21

And bringing in from States may not be viable for AR Variant, you may have to go European route

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

One guy I know from our club has a similar rifle, and gunhappy.ie has a similar rifle also. Not AR's but .223 Semi Auto's

I don't know has anyone got one recently.
Oberland arms in Germany sell IMHO a better version, i know of 5 or 6 in the country tops that own a Semi AR variant. Dwight off here uses a R-15 which is a knock off AR, very light weight in comparison
Very expensive for plinking and not good enough for Target (possibly gallery Rifle)

I'd like the idea of a whizz bang .223 S/A but the hassle involved and the price of a good one is prohibitive

For the same money you would get a serious Target rifle capable of entering 1000 yard comps eg Savage FTR(yes Ezridax has one, I don't like them; but they do shoot well)

Just my thoughts, I own one restricted firearm and can vouch for the hassle they are in getting & holding on to

Firstly, While this is a public forum and information can be obtained easily I would ask that my name NOT be mentioned or offered up for informational purposes. A simple "other members" would suffice and at my own time if i want to i can offer up the information.

Sorry off topic but i feel it needs to be said.

kwalsh000 wrote: »

Hey all,

I know in general the Ar15/M4/M16 etc topic has been done to death but I am more interested in hearing does anyone own one of the above and how do they rate it both in use and if so was it from the US they got it (through a local dealer) or any other brands?

I am looking at getting my first gun rifle for target shooting down the line and having shot a few .22 rifles, 9mm, .45s and a couple of M4's, Bushmaster one being the latest (think it was 5.56) and it just felt so comerfortable to shoot and very accurate with the sights on the gun (for a beginner at least)

I know it needs to be a restricted licence due to reasons like the pistol grip, stock etc and its the i dont like the look of that category. But any ones personal opinions with one of these in the long term would be great

Thanks!

kwalsh000...............

Actually this topic is hardly touched on in this forum as there arent many willing to talk about what they have but without mentioning names I will share my experience of what ive seen as upposed to what ive heard.

There are quiet alot or AR platform guns in ireland in several calibers. The main makes (that ive seen) are Oberland Arms, HK MR223, DPMS and Saber Defence.

There are 2 ways to look at an any AR platform gun, those that are piston driven (a newish consept to the AR market) and those that are Direct Impediment (the origional design of the M16) so I will start with the only AR gun that Ive seen with this system...

The HK MR223 is the only comercially available piston driven gun to the irish market that ive seen (Saber defence now sells piston driven guns but ive not seen 1 in Ireland). The MR223 is a Fantastic (i cant stress that enough) rifle that as all HK firearms do, ooozes quality. It is the top of the line for fit and finish, however it is possibly the most expensive of the lot. Ive seen 4 of these in the country and know of 1 for sale second hand @ €2000.

Oberland Arms ...... where to begin, Id never buy an OA as there expensive (for the extra money the HK is worth every penny) and rubbish. Ive seen a gun where the barrel entension (where the bolt locks into) broke over half its teeth off while firing..... The shooter was lucky to have escape unharmed. AO fixed the problem but there was still all the hassle and paperwork for the gun to go back to germany. Again for the money it shouldnt have happened.... Also for the money they need a company logo that doesnt look like a 5 year old drew (see picture on post no 4)

Saber defence are a good make, may not be the best for finish (ive owned a saber defence but not an AR and know 2 Saber ARs whos owners say the same) but overal id have 1 over an OA any day.

Remington R15 and R25..... There are guys on have that them here so I dont meant to step on there toes but there a heap of junk. Firstly there not made by remington there made by DPMS and Bushmaster (if i remember correctly) DPMS are (from mates in the US and norway who build ARs) the crud in the bottom of the barrel, there stuff is awfull but it sells in the US because its cheap and ultimatly can be upgraded with other parts as time goes on ! Unfortunatly here there guns arent cheap @ I believe €1200+ and parts to upgrade them are costly and hard to get if you ask a RFD. My first time picking up a R15 I thought it was broken as it actually rattled. Personally Id only buy 1 of these if it was 100-300 as thats all the lower (the part that is the gun) is worth so I could build a decent gun.

As far as getting a DPMS or Bushmaster branded gun, ive never seen them in Ireland although im sure that they float around europe (in particular germany).

If importing (from the US or Europe) appeals to you (it will save you a fortune) then the worlds is your oyster. Ive seen Armalites and Colts in europe. Of course in America there ais the most choice for something really different like Les Baer (1/2 MOA guarentee), LMT (supplied the British army with there SASS) LWRC (Piston Driven), POF (PD), Novesk (DI), Knights Armament (DI and who hired Eugene Stoner, the designer of the AR-10 and M16 and who supply Americas SASS)

GH

gunhappy_ie

kwalsh000 wrote: »

Thanks for the tips and advice lads, very much appreciated.

I did see the Oberlands and they do look very nice but very pricey aswell.

The Bushmaster seems to be the best in between choice aswell as price esp on the link posted (thanks FISMA) there is some nice prices. I would be aimng for a pretty standard kit just a scope down the line on it thats bout it.

I will keep an eye out for any over here but i have a feeling that it may be a good bit cheaper getting one imported (more hassle but cheaper in long term)

Thanks again everyone

The link .... impact guns wont have anything to do with international buyers of anything they sell.... there not interested in selling Tshirts outside the US (I contacted them some time ago regarding items)

On the otherhand www.knesekguns.com specialise in this area. I know of a dealer bringing in an AR gun for himself, while the majority of the work is required on the US side its not that hard but expect to pay easliy 2k and upwards.

GH

Tackleberrywho

@GH if you post pictures of your rifles under Gunhappy.ie you make that a matter of public knowledge.

I never named you as I don't know your name FTR :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055020656&page=56

mid way down the page

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

@GH if you post pictures of your rifles under Gunhappy.ie you make that a matter of public knowledge.

I never named you as I don't know your name FTR :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055020656&page=56

mid way down the page

As Ive previously said, I know that that is a public forum, however what I post is my decision, and I dont put it up for anyone to regurgitate especially as the link above does not even relate to this thread because OP is asking about Armalite clones.... NOT HK.

In what seems to be an effort to knock up posts for Quantity Vs Quality you will reply with at times with irrelevant (example in link above) and even the wrong information (see attacted link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056201067 post 15 to 17)

Name/username .... again, I would ask that should the need arise that you think of mentioning my user name you instead insert "there are members here" (or words to that effect).

Id be happer with that and have the OP use the search function to find out for themselves (again information that Ive put in the public domain).

While you mentioned other posters here bar my user name, irrespective of what a poster posts I think that it is wrong for you to mention them.

As this thread is now off course, i apologise to the OP. Should however you wish to reply please do so via PM.


GH

Grizzly 45

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

kwalsh000...............

Actually this topic is hardly touched on in this forum as there arent many willing to talk about what they have but without mentioning names I will share my experience of what ive seen as upposed to what ive heard.

Oberland Arms ...... where to begin, Id never buy an OA as there expensive (for the extra money the HK is worth every penny) and rubbish. Ive seen a gun where the barrel entension (where the bolt locks into) broke over half its teeth off while firing..... The shooter was lucky to have escape unharmed. AO fixed the problem but there was still all the hassle and paperwork for the gun to go back to germany. Again for the money it shouldnt have happened.... Also for the money they need a company logo that doesnt look like a 5 year old drew (see picture on post no 4)

Only trouble is with the HK system is,once you buy one you are STUCK with the HK system!! You have to buy another HK upper if you want a different barrel length etc.They aint cheap!!:DThe others,well you just buy or build another upper platform and put it on the lower.You 100 % right too that for the money OA should and did fix it,not really their fault that we have a FUBAR liscensing and paperwork system

BTW the logo happens to be a hearaldic crest of the town where they are based.Its over 800 years old.Might account for the "5 year old " style artwork.;)

Saber defence are a good make, may not be the best for finish (ive owned a saber defence but not an AR and know 2 Saber ARs whos owners say the same) but overal id have 1 over an OA any day.

IF you can get one!!!Not to mind the shennanigans that the Company director is involved in the USA...Things like exporting illegal full auto copies ,importing anbd exporting silencers.All stuff that has brought Fed type attention and charges onto him.It is going to be questionable if Sabre Defence will be around much longer..As the company went into recivership as well during the Fed investigation.

Remington R15 and R25..... There are guys on have that them here so I dont meant to step on there toes but there a heap of junk.

HOI!!!;):D

Firstly there not made by remington there made by DPMS and Bushmaster (if i remember correctly) DPMS are (from mates in the US and norway who build ARs) the crud in the bottom of the barrel, there stuff is awfull but it sells in the US because its cheap and ultimatly can be upgraded with other parts as time goes on !

Unfortunatly here there guns arent cheap @ I believe €1200+ and parts to upgrade them are costly and hard to get if you ask a RFD. My first time picking up a R15 I thought it was broken as it actually rattled. Personally Id only buy 1 of these if it was 100-300 as thats all the lower (the part that is the gun) is worth so I could build a decent gun.

Got to eyeball my R25 FINALLY in the dealer.TBH,I'm impressed with it.No rattles,seems to be well tight in the tolerances.Finish...Well thats a matter of taste and opinion!There were problems allright with them when the first came out.Mostly cruddy trigger pull,and flaky finishes.Maybe they pay more attention to the R25s??Hopefully we will know soon enough,and I'll give you a chance to play with it.;):D

As far as getting a DPMS or Bushmaster branded gun, ive never seen them in Ireland although im sure that they float around europe (in particular germany).

Few and far between over there too.There are a few branded recivers about.BUT wether the rest is Bushmaster,is open to debate.The AR platform is now the biggest selling SA in Germany,and there are now rakes of companies building their version of the AR in various configs and calibres.Reason you mightnt find alot of US companies over there is because of german firearms law.Before it can be sold over there it has to go to the Federal forensic lab,where the sample is checked that it doesnt fall under the German control of war weapons act.Nor that it can be easily converted using normal domestic tools,anyone would have in their garage that is,To full auto.Then it can be sold to the GP.However that can take up to two years to process.Remington just got the R seris thru this last Jan!

If importing (from the US or Europe) appeals to you (it will save you a fortune) then the worlds is your oyster. Ive seen Armalites and Colts in europe. Of course in America there ais the most choice for something really different like Les Baer (1/2 MOA guarentee), LMT (supplied the British army with there SASS) LWRC (Piston Driven), POF (PD), Novesk (DI), Knights Armament (DI and who hired Eugene Stoner, the designer of the AR-10 and M16 and who supply Americas SASS)

From one who is doing it and is 99% there!
Maybe,maybe not...IF you are going the US import route,you WILL need a gundealer who is as hard as nails to see this thru!Or you will have to be really dedicated as an individual to get it in.It wil involve getting a US dealer cleared to ship outside CONUS who will handle an individual sale.A lot wont do anything under sales lots of ten. You will need to sign off an end user certificate either with the dealer or as an individual sale that is on record with the US state dept.

THEN most importantly...You need to make sure the dealer in the US ships the same serial numberd gun as is on your paperwork. This has caused me no end of headache ,a years delay ,and any opportunity by AGS to quare the pitch on granting a liscense on one of these will be used by them!!!
What should be technically be an ammendment,is being used in my case as a new application!!:mad:
Whatever I saved in imports is now gone in time and hassle,and TBH the rifle is about the same price here, as is in the EU[+/- 1650 euro]
FWIW,I'd now go to Europe and possibly pay abit more,but let the US/EU import paperwork be somone elses problem,[after all that is included in the sales price],and let them order in whatever you fancy,or let them build it for you to your specs.

gunhappy_ie

True that the HK cant take AR uppers (US made HK MR223A1s can) there is also no other barrel length currently available for the HK. The other problem is that to build/buy an upper you wont do it for €500... id estimate its close to €1000.


Hahaha ya i know about where the sign comes from but still I wouldnt buy 1.


Awwwyaaa I forgot that Saber were bold boys.... aww well there are still a couple floating about in Ireland.


The R15 is a different manufacturer that the R25, perhaps it was an eariler model that I picked up as it was almost 3 years ago that I was shown it. By all means ill eat my hat if im wrong (paperhat from an Xmas cracker) but im lookin forward to you getting it


I talked to Knesek almost 2 years ago, they will do individual sales

GH

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

As Ive previously said, I know that that is a public forum, however what I post is my decision, and I dont put it up for anyone to regurgitate especially as the link above does not even relate to this thread because OP is asking about Armalite clones.... NOT HK.

In what seems to be an effort to knock up posts for Quantity Vs Quality you will reply with at times with irrelevant (example in link above) and even the wrong information (see attacted link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056201067 post 15 to 17)

Name/username .... again, I would ask that should the need arise that you think of mentioning my user name you instead insert "there are members here" (or words to that effect).

Id be happer with that and have the OP use the search function to find out for themselves (again information that Ive put in the public domain).

While you mentioned other posters here bar my user name, irrespective of what a poster posts I think that it is wrong for you to mention them.

As this thread is now off course, i apologise to the OP. Should however you wish to reply please do so via PM.


GH

Can keep people happy all the time .........
Had I not said you had a s/a Centrefire you would have come in all high and mighty.

The Op asked about AR/Bushmaster. I was simply pointing out that

1. AR's & Variants and any centrefire S/A are not common here
2. It may be easier import from Europe than the US for VAT and customs issues (both Irish & US)
3. I did not know of anyone who had a Semi Auto Centrefire licenced recently under the new system. And therefore it would be of great benefit if someone who had gone through the hoops in the past 6 months to a year for a fresh application to assist you.

If you or I or anyone posts info on here of our own free will it is a matter of public record.

You seem to have plenty of info to go off and research OP

Let us know how you get on.


Sorry OP for derailing your thread by attemping to be helpful.
And giving info which I taught was relevant...

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Can keep people happy all the time .........
Had I not said you had a s/a Centrefire you would have come in all high and mighty.

The Op asked about AR/Bushmaster. I was simply pointing out that

1. AR's & Variants and any centrefire S/A are not common here
2. It may be easier import from Europe than the US for VAT and customs issues (both Irish & US)
3. I did not know of anyone who had a Semi Auto Centrefire licenced recently under the new system. And therefore it would be of great benefit if someone who had gone through the hoops in the past 6 months to a year for a fresh application to assist you.

If you or I or anyone posts info on here of our own free will it is a matter of public record.

You seem to have plenty of info to go off and research OP

Let us know how you get on.


Sorry OP for derailing your thread by attemping to be helpful.
And giving info which I taught thought was relevant...

Couldn't help it :P

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Couldn't help it :P

I was never great at spelling Bunny.......
Dyslexia Lures KO!

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I was never great at spelling Bunny.......
Dyslexia Lures KO!

If you have dyslexia I apologise

If you're too lazy to bother I don't, BTW from my limited understanding of it, it wouldn't cover you're mistake

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

If you have dyslexia I apologise

If you're too lazy to bother I don't, BTW from my limited understanding of it, it wouldn't cover you're mistake

More A.D.D is what I have.
My spoke language is reasonable and my spelling is dreadful.
Google Chrome picks up most of my spelling mistakes but not my grammar.

You may notice that when I am in work and using Internet Explorer my spelling goes to she-it

I am not dyslexia with words, but they "thought" I was when I was in school as I used get D'a and B's mixed up, and Maths just make NO sense to me when others find them easy !

murph226

Who are the agents for HK in Ireland, PM me if you wish?

gunhappy_ie

murph226 wrote: »

Who are the agents for HK in Ireland, PM me if you wish?

There is no official agent AFAIK... illl pm the dealer with the MR223 for sale....

kwalsh000

Had no internet there for a while so just wanted to say thanks to all those who replied, alot of great information and advice, it really has been helpful. Once I get the ball rolling on things in a while I will update the thread (hopefully by then with some good news!) and in the mean time will keep researching. Thanks all.