Goat's milk and cheese more humane?

Curlyhatescurls

I am trying to cut out dairy products for ethical reasons- it feeds directly into the veal industry, more dairy cows are killed each year than beef cows among many other reasons. However, I was wondering if the case would be different with goat's products? If I were to buy organic goat's milk and cheese, in what way would I be harming the goats?

dlofnep

Why not buy soya milk or rice milk?

Curlyhatescurls

Well it's basically goat's cheese I would be eating, I want to be fully aware of what happens to the animals if I am eating their products, make an informed choice. I can't cut out all animal products unless I know why it is inhumane to have them(in this case goat's cheese)

dlofnep

Ah I see. There are some non-goat/dairy cheeses out there. Infact, there are quite a good range of soya products. I had to use them for years because my stomach and dairy didn't mix. Custard, yoghurts, deserts... All nommy

As for goat-farming, I don't have an idea to be honest - but there are alternatives out there for you if that doesn't work out for ya

Curlyhatescurls

Thank you, I will have to check them all out next time I am shopping:)

dlofnep

Curlyhatescurls wrote: »

Thank you, I will have to check them all out next time I am shopping:)

No probs They are usually found in the gluten free and organic sections in supermarkets. Tescos usually has a good range.

shubj

I have a dairy intolerence (only arose in the last year) and there are loads of tasty substitutes that don't involve animals being used.

The Alpro soya yoghurts and the Alpro soya custard are delicious. They do cream substitutes too but I haven't tried them yet.

In tea or coffee I found the Oatly milk my favourite so far and also for cereal too.

Enjoy trying everything :-D

Found this site that explains goat milk farming in Ireland
http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/how-to-milk-profits-from-goat-farming-1388187.html

Absurdum

The word "humane" can be subjective, the headline of that article tells me all I need to know about it tbh

How to milk profits from goat farming

Even if dairy farming was super-humane and fluffy cuddly, it's still completely unnatural, despite the national dairy council propaganda.

mystique150

dlofnep wrote: »

Ah I see. There are some non-goat/dairy cheeses out there. Infact, there are quite a good range of soya products. I had to use them for years because my stomach and dairy didn't mix. Custard, yoghurts, deserts... All nommy

As for goat-farming, I don't have an idea to be honest - but there are alternatives out there for you if that doesn't work out for ya

Some of the vegan cheeses are not necessarily any better for you than goats or cow's milk cheese. Vegan cheeses are mostly made from oils such as soy and palm oil that are processed into a solid mass. They are usually made abroad too so travel long distances to get here. Personally, if I didn't have any intolerances to dairy, I would rather support my local economy and buy locally produced Irish goats or cow cheese than eat vegan cheese. If I refused to eat cheese based on personal objections to farming, I don't see the point in replacing it with a super processed similar looking/ similar tasting alternative that uses a dairy derived protein called casein to make it solidify. Casein is the protein that most people are intolerant to and hence the veggie cheese isn't any better for you.

Absurdum

I try to avoid anything with palm oil in it, in my opinion the environmental damage it does (and subsequent harm to animal life) is a lot worse than dairy farming in Ireland.

Curlyhatescurls

From this http://www.independent.ie/farming/ne...g-1388187.html
'Female kids are taken from their mothers within two days and hand reared on artificial milk because it would be too expensive to rear them on goat's milk.'
'Male kids have little or no economic value and are put down immediately after birth and sent to the local knackery.'
' it is most often the bigger twin-producing goats that give most milk and are less likely to be culled.'
'Light treatment is used to extend the breeding season for the herd...Lights remain on for 20 hours out of 24 for a period of two months and then all light is switched off for one month'

This is awful. I feel awful.

spiralbound

mystique150 wrote: »

Some of the vegan cheeses are not necessarily any better for you than goats or cow's milk cheese. Vegan cheeses are mostly made from oils such as soy and palm oil that are processed into a solid mass. They are usually made abroad too so travel long distances to get here. Personally, if I didn't have any intolerances to dairy, I would rather support my local economy and buy locally produced Irish goats or cow cheese than eat vegan cheese. If I refused to eat cheese based on personal objections to farming, I don't see the point in replacing it with a super processed similar looking/ similar tasting alternative that uses a dairy derived protein called casein to make it solidify. Casein is the protein that most people are intolerant to and hence the veggie cheese isn't any better for you.

There is a vegan cheese made in Scotland (Sheese), so that doesn't have to travel too far. I don't know about the palm oil situation, it just says 'vegetable oil' on the label - I think I will email them to ask what oil they use. Vegan cheese doesn't contain casein.

I don't eat dairy for mostly ethical reasons, and don't see any problem with occasionally using something that looks and tastes similar to dairy cheese.

mystique150

spiralbound wrote: »

There is a vegan cheese made in Scotland (Sheese), so that doesn't have to travel too far. I don't know about the palm oil situation, it just says 'vegetable oil' on the label - I think I will email them to ask what oil they use. Vegan cheese doesn't contain casein.

I don't eat dairy for mostly ethical reasons, and don't see any problem with occasionally using something that looks and tastes similar to dairy cheese.

It doesn't have to travel far, but it is still essentially a lump of oil condensed into a solid lump by artificial means. Have you tried making your own alternatives? Here is a decent looking one. I might try this myself... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3FYduSF-dw

Oh and as for casein, I mentioned it as it is in a number of vegetarian and soy cheeses, but yes I should have clarified that.

hayleycomet

I'm re-entering the world of vegetarianism myself after a break of a few years having had a child and found your post interesting...
I got to the point where I was completely seduced by the cheap meat offers in my local supermarket...talk about burying my head in the sand.
Obviously it's a matter for each individual conscience to consider, or ignore, but, for me, the economic interest underlying mass production of meat or animal products will ensure that concerns over profit will come before animal, or even human, welfare.
The word 'organic' provides the only exception...aiming for a balance between the welfare of the animals and profit? Or is it just a scam? We take our heads out of one hole in the sand and bury it in another...an 'organic' hole, where again we don't have to worry about our greedy, exploitative behaviour.
Haven't decided on this yet...
That article, by the way, was referring to goat-farming, as opposed to 'organic' goat-farming.