External bell is not triggering

DYING2DIY

I have an Aritech CS450 and a HKC external bell. The ext. bell has stopped triggering when the alarm is activated in the 'normal' way....doors and windows being tampered with etc.... However, the ext. bell will trigger when the control panel battery + mains power are removed and when the ext. bell cover is removed. Internal bell, Scantronic PSTN dialler, PIRs etc... are all working fine and there are no faults being logged. Can anyone suggest possible cause(s)? The original settings for the system were not (knowingly) interfered with since it was installed.

KoolKid

The external bell should not trigger for a tamper. Have you tried a full alarm or a panic alarm activation?

DYING2DIY

Thanks for the response Koolkid.

I just activated full alarm and panic alarm..... only the internal bell is working. The flashing blue(ish) light on the external bell is the only activity.

As far as I can recall, the external bell always worked when the alarm was activated by any means whether on partguard 1 or 2 etc...

The system was fitted about 10 years ago and I have the Eng. code aswell.

KoolKid

The simple way to test this is to open the panel. Disconnect the bell - & connect to permanent - .
If the external bell does not ring at this stage you have either a problem with the external bell itself or a connection problem with the cable.
My next step would be to completely disconnect the cable at the panel & the bell & check all cores for continuity.

DYING2DIY

O.K. - thanks very much for that.

It'll be a few days before I can do this and will let you know then.

DYING2DIY

I have 5 cores connected between the panel and the external bell. All 5 checked o.k. for continuity. I used a basic battery + light bulb circuit checking cores 1 + 2 first, then 1 + 3 and so on.

I thought I'd figure out what you meant by 'connect to permanent' but think I failed to do so. I didn't want to connect cables without being sure of what I was doing.

Am I correct to say that 2 of the cores are providing power from the panel to the bell (Terminals 25 + 26 on my unit)? Another 2 cores form the Tamper loop (Terminals 14 and 15). Core 5 is connected to the internal bell circuit.

So, with continuity in the 5 cores, power getting to the bell box, and the external bell itself works - is it possible to draw any conclusion?

The ext. bell set is a bit more complicated looking than I expected but power is getting to it from the panel and it's own battery is still functioning. I used a simple automotive test probe for checking this.

Could you explain how I should connect to permanant?

Thanks for your help.

KoolKid

With everything wired as normal at the panel disconnect bell- and connect to auxiliary -.
Perhaps if you list the terminal connections at the panel and at the bell we can give you more precise directions.

DYING2DIY

When I disconnect the external bell from terminals 25 + 26, the ext. bell sounds.

When connected to AUX terminals 27 + 28, it goes off (silent) again.

I set the alarm again with the ext bell connected this way and triggered the system. Still no sound from the ext bell (the strobe light works o.k.).

I'm attaching photos of the Panel (diagram) and Bell connections with this post....The bell's own red cable was just disconnected to silence it for the photo......

1) Red core - panel terminal 25 to Bell Strobe + term (with the yellow jumper)
2) Green - panel terminal 26 to Bell Ext. Bell - term
3) White - panel terminal 24 to Bell Strobe - term
4) Black - panel terminal 14 to Bell SAB Hold term
5) Blue - panel terminal 15 to Bell Tamper Resistor

altor

The external siren is not connected in the external bell. It is the loose red wire to the left in the picture..

DYING2DIY

Thanks for the input altor..... but, no, that's not the problem....you'll see in post #8 ......

"The bell's own red cable was just disconnected to silence it for the photo"

That cable is firmly in place.

KoolKid

At the panel remove external bell - and connect to Auxiliary - .
Does that activate the external bell?

altor

DYING2DIY wrote: »

Thanks for the input altor..... but, no, that's not the problem....you'll see in post #8 ......

"The bell's own red cable was just disconnected to silence it for the photo"

That cable is firmly in place.

The first thing to do is test the external bell output.
Go into the maintenance in engineering, output test. if the bell does not ring it could be the output. Is there any fuse fault on the panel ?
If you disconnect the external bell in the panel and connect it to the battery does the bell ring + to + - to - ? If the bell does not ring the bell could be faulty.

DYING2DIY

To answer KoolKid first......

When I disconnect the external bell at the panel end (25+26), the ext. bell is activated and when re-connected to the AUX (27+28), it goes silent again.

Altor.....

There is no fault (afaik) being logged - I'm going by the the keypad indicators etc...which tells me the usual.....loss of power, which zone was activated in the event of an alarm etc... the system is working perfectly in all other respects.

I'll follow the other instructions as soon as I can and reply.....

KoolKid

Is it possible that the bell - & BHO are switched?

DYING2DIY

BHO....I don't know what that is ..... I don't recall anything that could have happened to cause this ..... anything is possible. What should I be looking at for this?

KoolKid

Is this cable going straight from the panel to the external bell or is it connected to an internal for example?

Wire in the following
Red core - panel terminal 25 to Bell +

Black - panel terminal 14 to Bell SAB Hold term
Wire in the resistor across terminal 14 & 15

Make sure the lid is closed on the external bell & connect the green that is connected to external - to terminal 28 .
The external bell should ring.

Do you have access to a multi meter ?

DYING2DIY

It will a few days before I can carry out this.

I should be able to get my hands on a multimeter by then also so, when you can, let me know what reading(s) to take.

Regarding the output checks suggested by altor.... I have 6 zones (1-4 low and 5-6 high) – do I test all? I don't know which one tests the external bell. What result am I looking for here?

altor

DYING2DIY wrote: »

Regarding the output checks suggested by altor.... I have 6 zones (1-4 low and 5-6 high) – do I test all? I don't know which one tests the external bell. What result am I looking for here?

No need to test them all DYING2DIY. Output 5 is the internal bell, output 6 is the external bell. When you press the accept button it should switch from high to low and activate the output, this in turn will activate the internal bell output 5, external bell output 6. Test this to see if the output is working. If you have a meter on the output the voltage will increase when the output is switched from high to low.
Another way to test the external bell is to connect it direct to the battery making sure to connect the + and - correctly. It should sound if the bell is working.

DYING2DIY

We might be getting somewhere with this.......

With the system disarmed....

1) the output test for the external bell FAILED (zone 06)..... internal bell test (zone 5) passed as expected.

2) when the external bell cables were disconnected from the panel terminals 25(+) and 26(-), the bell sounded...... when connected directly to the battery, it went silent again.

Should the external bell circuit go high to low at terminal 25(+) to activate it when the system is triggered?

I don't have a meter yet but will get my hands on one asap.

altor

DYING2DIY wrote: »

We might be getting somewhere with this.......

With the system disarmed....

1) the output test for the external bell FAILED (zone 06)..... internal bell test (zone 5) passed as expected.

2) when the external bell cables were disconnected from the panel terminals 25(+) and 26(-), the bell sounded...... when connected directly to the battery, it went silent again.

Should the external bell circuit go high to low at terminal 25(+) to activate it when the system is triggered?

I don't have a meter yet but will get my hands on one asap.

That is correct with regards terminal 25-26 external bell output.
It does sound like the external bell is faulty. The only other test is to remove the external bell and wire it in beside the panel on a length of cable. Then close up the panel and activate the alarm when it is set.

altor

Before you try the bell change the internal and external bell wiring in the panel then test the output again.

DYING2DIY

I swapped the internal bell and external bell connections..... the output test passed for Zone 6 - it triggers the internal bell which is now connected. It triggers whenever the alarm is activated.

So, as you suspected, the external bell seems to be where the fault lies. I assume that when you refer to the external bell that you mean the entire bell box.

Is there anything else I can check at the bell box to confirm?

Are we looking at a repair or a replacement?

After just a quick check on the net, they don't appear to be too expensive....stg£30 from Amazon for example.

altor

I thought so but it is always bes

t to check. The external bell is cheap enough to replace your self.

DYING2DIY

Would the Honeywell AG6....

http://www.security.honeywell.com/uk/intruder/documents/HSCE-AG6-AG8-01-EN_0206_SB-B_LR.pdf

be considered a suitable replacement bell? About stg£25 delivered.

I've read that the connections on this unit are marked .... ST-, R-, SW-, V+ and V-.

Can anyone advise how these compare to the HKC connections Strobe+, Strobe-, Tamper, SAB hold and External Bell- which are the ones my panel is connected to at the moment?

altor

DYING2DIY wrote: »

Would the Honeywell AG6....

http://www.security.honeywell.com/uk/intruder/documents/HSCE-AG6-AG8-01-EN_0206_SB-B_LR.pdf

be considered a suitable replacement bell? About stg£25 delivered.

I've read that the connections on this unit are marked .... ST-, R-, SW-, V+ and V-.

Can anyone advise how these compare to the HKC connections Strobe+, Strobe-, Tamper, SAB hold and External Bell- which are the ones my panel is connected to at the moment?

I have not used one of these bells before so one of the other installers will have to help you out here. I cant even find a pdf installation to have a look at on google.

DYING2DIY

I've asked the seller to send on details.

However, I'd say it's suitable and could probably hook it up beside the alarm panel and figure out the connections myself by trial and error before mounting it on the gable.

I'll let you know how I get on.

DYING2DIY

I picked up an 'Image' bell box made by Ventcroft in the UK and all seemed straightforward.....picture attached. However, with the unit connected, I'm getting a 'cabinet tamper' message and can't arm the system. If I remove the new unit and reconnect the old, the tamper problem doesn't arise and the system can be armed. There are on 5 available connections on the Image bell box....it doesn't require a strobe(+) connection.

The internal bell (-) connection is going to (-) Strobe
The external bell (+) connection is going to (+) Hold
The external bell (-) connection is going to TRG

The problem points to the tamper loop... do I have a compatibility issue? Are the tamper connections supposed (-) or (+)?

The bell's LEDs and sounder is working fine and I don't suspect a faulty box.

All help appreciated.

altor

DYING2DIY wrote: »

I picked up an 'Image' bell box made by Ventcroft in the UK and all seemed straightforward.....picture attached. However, with the unit connected, I'm getting a 'cabinet tamper' message and can't arm the system. If I remove the new unit and reconnect the old, the tamper problem doesn't arise and the system can be armed. There are on 5 available connections on the Image bell box....it doesn't require a strobe(+) connection.

The internal bell (-) connection is going to (-) Strobe
The external bell (+) connection is going to (+) Hold
The external bell (-) connection is going to TRG

The problem points to the tamper loop... do I have a compatibility issue? Are the tamper connections supposed (-) or (+)?

The bell's LEDs and sounder is working fine and I don't suspect a faulty box.

All help appreciated.

The two tampers are connected. Did you use a 4K7 resistor ?

DYING2DIY

No altor...I didn't connect the resistor which I now see was used in the old bell box.

Do I connect it between the 2 tamper connections in the new box (Hold Off (-) and RTN)?

Please let this be the 'fix'!!!

Thanks again.

altor

DYING2DIY wrote: »

No altor...I didn't connect the resistor which I now see was used in the old bell box.

Do I connect it between the 2 tamper connections in the new box (Hold Off (-) and RTN)?

Please let this be the 'fix'!!!

Thanks again.

It needs to be connected in the BHO and tamper return.
Hopefully that will sort it for you

DYING2DIY

Hi altor.... still struggling with this.

I removed the 4k7 resistor from the old box and connected it across the hold off (-) and RTN terminals (see pic) but the same message appeared and the system wouldn't arm. When I removed it, the new bell triggered.

The resistor appears to be good as it's working as it should be in the old bell box.

Where are am I going wrong?