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End of tenancy query? Notice to Terminate but no Lease. Tenant wants to stay

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  • 23-05-2011 10:20am
    #1
    mycuzvinny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭


    Hi,

    I would really appreciate some help.

    In short,

    I am living with 3 lads in a house. A lease was signed by all 4 tenants in September 2009. This was a 1 year fixed term lease. No lease was signed upon expiry but the landlord was aware we were all remaining for the foreseeable future. The rent remained the same and the tenancy rolled over until now.

    3 of the lads have finished college now and want to look for jobs etc so want leave the property and want to terminate the tenancy (and lease if one exists). What are the implications for the remaining tenant who doesn't want to leave? (They want to get a job after finishing dissertation so need to stay)

    Does the remaining tenant have to sign the notice to terminate or can they refuse to sign and remain in the property? What is the position if notice is given by 3 tenants but not the fourth?

    In order to get the deposit back will the 3 tenants leaving have to sub-let or will the remaining tenant be left with that responsibility, and the obligation of paying the aggregate rent?

    I would really appreciate any input on this.

    Thanks in advance.


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    #2
    AnnaGram85
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭AnnaGram85


    From my point of view, if all 4 moved in at the same time, the house is let as a unit and the landlord doesn't have to allow you to stay if the other 3 are not. If the lease has expired, there is no 'legal' obligation to give notice to terminate, but it is good manners to do so. Check out Threshold/PRTB to check how many days notice is required, depending on how long you have been in the tenancy.

    Explain the situation to the landlord. Inform him that you want to stay. If the lease is expired then you'll have to start off a new lease and he might request that he wants to let the house as a whole and you will have to find 3 others to share with before he renews the lease.


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    #3
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    IT will be joint and several. If he doesn't want to leave, then he can pay the entire rent, or you guys will be stuck paying too. You should demand he sign a new lease or leave, otherwise you guys will still be active on the lease.

    What usually happens in this case is that the guy remaining can't fill the other rooms. You guys don't pay, so he pays his rent only, then the landlord gets angry, kicks him out and you all lose your deposit. This happened to me, and a few other people I know.

    From a landlord point of view, he doesn't care WHO pays, he just wants the full amount, any way possible. So whether if falls to you guys to sublet the rooms, or the remaining tenant, is up to you guys only.

    I recommend you ALL get out while you can.


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    #4
    mycuzvinny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭mycuzvinny


    AnnaGram85 wrote: »
    If the lease has expired, there is no 'legal' obligation to give notice to terminate, but it is good manners to do so. Check out Threshold/PRTB to check how many days notice is required, depending on how long you have been in the tenancy.

    Although the lease expired after 1 year, from my research a tenancy can be oral - so I'm presuming the fact that rent was paid and the same tenants remained means that notice must be given. I looked it up and it's 42 days. Just wondering if the formal notice is given by 3 does that mean the other gets turfed out? Would seem a little unfair.
    AnnaGram85 wrote: »
    Explain the situation to the landlord. Inform him that you want to stay. If the lease is expired then you'll have to start off a new lease and he might request that he wants to let the house as a whole and you will have to find 3 others to share with before he renews the lease.

    I am going to talk to the landlord. It seems that finding 3 others would be an ideal solution then all get a new lease. However, the 3 tenants moving out aren't really gonna help and my understanding is that the deposit won't be returned unless there is subletting for the remainder of the lease (if one exists). Should the 3 moving out not make an effort to get new tenants as their deposit is at risk, not the remaining tenant (until they eventually leave)?

    It's a bit of a mess due to the fact that I'm unsure if a lease exists. Surely the landlord would have been down with one for signing upon expiry of the old one. He has lots of properties rented out so I would imagine he's an experienced landlord?

    Anyone know whether a lease exists. If one does then I have a decent understanding of rights and obligations, and the required procedure for return of deposit.
    Giblet wrote: »
    What usually happens in this case is that the guy remaining can't fill the other rooms. You guys don't pay, so he pays his rent only, then the landlord gets angry, kicks him out and you all lose your deposit. This happened to me, and a few other people I know.

    I can see this happening tbh. Hopefully some arrangement can be mde with the landlord. Trying to gather as much info as possible so I'm well informed. Don't want something made up to be thrown in my face and to go along with it foolishly at our expense.

    Thanks for your help.


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    #5
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,394 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    You have to give you 42(?) days notice. AFAIK, only one co-tenant is need to give notice. Potentially, the other three write to the landlord saying something like: "We are giving our notice with the intention of leaving the property on X date. We would be grateful for you to arrange the handover of the property and the return of the deposit. We understand that tenant Y is interested in taking over the lease, but that is between the two of you".

    The people leaving only need to find replacements when they are falling short of their obligations, e.g. leaving early. It would be best for the person staying to find the replacements, as they need to live with them.
    AnnaGram85 wrote: »
    If the lease has expired, there is no 'legal' obligation to give notice to terminate, but it is good manners to do so.
    There is a part 4 lease in place. The only time you do not need to give notice is on the day the lease ends, assuming the lease says nothing about notice.


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    #6
    mycuzvinny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭mycuzvinny


    Victor wrote: »
    The people leaving only need to find replacements when they are falling short of their obligations, e.g. leaving early. It would be best for the person staying to find the replacements, as they need to live with them.

    Yeh the 3 lads are leaving early so technically it is up to them to find replacements although you wouldn't just want any 3 psychos to move in.
    Victor wrote: »
    There is a part 4 lease in place. The only time you do not need to give notice is on the day the lease ends, assuming the lease says nothing about notice.

    Because a part 4 lease is in place does that mean that the 3 lads are falling short of their obligations by a few months ie if another 1 yr lease is present, or does it mean they are falling short of the remaining 2 years of the part 4 tenancy? Just in terms of what the exposure is for owing the landlord rent.

    I appreciate what is mentioned above about joint and several liability so just want to know even if landlord tried to claim entire rent from remaining tenant, if that tenant paid their equal share is it a simple claim against the 3 lads for the other 3 equal payments if they just simply tell the landlord they are goin on X date and clear their stuff out?


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    #7
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    Victor (Moderator) said:
    There is a part 4 lease in place. The only time you do not need to give notice is on the day the lease ends, assuming the lease says nothing about notice.

    I think it is a Periodic tenancy and it runs on a monthly basis (if the rent is paid monthly.
    A periodic lease has the Part 4 rules and regulations (as per the RTA 2004) PLUS any other legal obligations etc. as set out in the original Fixed Term Lease.

    A Part 4 tenancy when assigned to someone who was not living in the property, also becomes a Periodic tenancy.


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    #8
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,394 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    mycuzvinny wrote: »
    Yeh the 3 lads are leaving early
    Regarding the lease, the aren't leaving early. They do have to give adequate notice though.
    Because a part 4 lease is in place does that mean that the 3 lads are falling short of their obligations by a few months ie if another 1 yr lease is present, or does it mean they are falling short of the remaining 2 years of the part 4 tenancy? Just in terms of what the exposure is for owing the landlord rent.
    I strongly suspect the only obligation they have is regarding notice.


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