Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Please Read OP)

Worztron

PDN wrote: »

Indeed. It would almost be enough to make you follow a religion where people sold everything they had and went off to help the poor - wouldn't it?

What? So you think it is acceptable for bishops to live in decadent luxury while children starve? Total hypocrites, they are.
They don't have to walk around in rags but they can certainly live a far more modest lifestyle.

PDN

Worztron wrote: »

What? So you think it is acceptable for bishops to live in decadent luxury while children starve? Total hypocrites, they are.
They don't have to walk around in rags but they can certainly live a far more modest lifestyle.

I guess you should take that up with people who belong to a Church where bishops live in decadent luxury.

Your faux outrage is wearing rather thin. I realise the patience of the mods in this forum is legendary - but there is a limit to the amount of muppetry we allow.

Worztron

PDN wrote: »

Did I say anything about dinosaurs?

It was a new question and I was making a point.

PDN wrote: »

I would have thought about 4.5 billion years, But if you really want to believe it's 6000 years, then you can do so.

Obviously I know it is billions of years old but if you go by your bible then your answer should have been closer to a few thousand years old.

PDN wrote: »

Here's a wee idea. Maybe you should try reading up some of the threads already in the forum, and acquainting yourself with the range of different views and opinions held by Christians, because at the moment your soapboxing and tired old stereotypes are really coming across as trolling.

I am asking legitimate questions and you are answering them with vague words and rhetoric. Since when is asking questions trolling?

marienbad

PDN wrote: »

It makes sense if you read the passage in context rather than making it mean what you want it to mean - something the atheists in this thread are showing a particular talent for



I'm afraid my imagination isn't sufficiently stretchable to start imagining words into ancient texts that don't actually appear there. I'll leave that to you, since you seem to have more experience than me in that field.


I'm going to be charitable here and assume you just haven't bothered reading what I've previously posted in this thread, rather than that you would deliberately tell untruths about me.

I've already stated, on several occasions, that I find the violence in the OT to be extremely troubling.

The reason why we baulk at rape is because there is no evidence for it. This might be a novel concept to some, but it is possible to arrive at a conclusion about interpretation of a text because you the evidence points that way.

Again, I would point out that Christians have a vested interest in reaching as an objective understanding of Scripture as possible. If we genuinely believe it to be God's word (as I do) then it would be foolish in the extreme to try to reach conclusions or interpretations that we do not honestly hold.

The atheists in this thread, however, have no such incentive to truly reach an objective understanding of Scripture. And that IMHO is why they continue to go through hermeneutical gymnastics and contortions to try to force the Bible to say something that it doesn't, but which they think will portray Christianity in the worst possible light.

I am sorry PDN , any reasonable reading of the particular passage does mean rape, it is the Christians that do the contortions to avoid it.

As for atheists not reaching an objective understanding of Scripture,the mind boggles at such an assertion. One could make the reverse case more plausibly as there is no vested interest involved.

I could just as easily say you are incapable of truly understanding the theory of evolution and that I think we would both agree is laughable.

Many atheists have reached their current state after deep study of the Scripture.

Could you answer the last part of my previous post ? Why do believe Israelite armies were any different to all armies before or since ?

PDN

marienbad wrote: »

I am sorry PDN , any reasonable reading of the particular passage does mean rape, it is the Christians that do the contortions to avoid it.

And you're entitled to your opinion. But the majority of biblical scholars with whom I have discussed this (including non-Christians and atheists) would disagree with you. Still, I defend your right to hold to your own opinion based on ... well, on whatever you feel is relevant.

As for atheists not reaching an objective understanding of Scripture,the mind boggles at such an assertion. One could make the reverse case more plausibly as there is no vested interest involved.

I don't think so. It is, for me, a matter of eternal importance how I interpret the Bible. Therefore I dare not handle it dishonestly.

Of course if I didn't give a hoot if my interpretation was correct or not, and just wanted to find an interpretation that might win an argument, then things might be different.

I could just as easily say you are incapable of truly understanding the theory of evolution and that I think we would both agree is laughable.

Yes, if you think the theory of evolution is a holy text that will determine your eternal destiny then yes, that would be a very apt comparison.

Many atheists have reached their current state after deep study of the Scripture.

I wish they would post in this Forum.

Could you answer the last part of my previous post ? Why do believe Israelite armies were any different to all armies before or since ?

Sorry, in what way different?

greenpilot

Most of us believe(d) in a God because we are born into a christian society. What if you were born a Hindu, or a Muslim, or a Masai warrior, believing that your God was Ju Ju in the Mountain?? What, tell me, in this age of Reason, is the point of even discussing this? After all,we just dont know, and most of us dont care. As I said to my mother just before she died, if there is a God, in whatever form ...let me know.....Im still waiting, and that was 20 years ago! What if we are ALL wrong, and the God IS in fact Ju Ju in the mountain!! We would have wasted our whole short lives believing in a fairytale designed by humans to keep humans at bay, while we could have been out there expanding our horizons and getting on with life. It is in our nature to want to believe in some higher being watching over us, while the rational fact is that, thousand of years later, we still wait a great comming.....what a waste. I am constantly amazed that so called rational people still believe in fairytales like these...Its frightening. to think of that percerntage of Americans who believe that the earth is a mere 6000 years old.......

beerbuddy

Worztron wrote: »

What? So you think it is acceptable for bishops to live in decadent luxury while children starve? Total hypocrites, they are.
They don't have to walk around in rags but they can certainly live a far more modest lifestyle.

what does this have to do with the existance of god?

lmaopml

greenpilot wrote: »

Most of us believe(d) in a God because we are born into a christian society. What if you were born a Hindu, or a Muslim, or a Masai warrior, believing that your God was Ju Ju in the Mountain?? What, tell me, in this age of Reason, is the point of even discussing this? After all,we just dont know, and most of us dont care. As I said to my mother just before she died, if there is a God, in whatever form ...let me know.....Im still waiting, and that was 20 years ago! What if we are ALL wrong, and the God IS in fact Ju Ju in the mountain!! We would have wasted our whole short lives believing in a fairytale designed by humans to keep humans at bay, while we could have been out there expanding our horizons and getting on with life. It is in our nature to want to believe in some higher being watching over us, while the rational fact is that, thousand of years later, we still wait a great comming.....what a waste. I am constantly amazed that so called rational people still believe in fairytales like these...Its frightening. to think of that percerntage of Americans who believe that the earth is a mere 6000 years old.......

Wow, such depth of ration and reason! I'm totally de-converted...:P

beerbuddy

greenpilot wrote: »

Most of us believe(d) in a God because we are born into a christian society. What if you were born a Hindu, or a Muslim, or a Masai warrior, believing that your God was Ju Ju in the Mountain?? What, tell me, in this age of Reason, is the point of even discussing this? After all,we just dont know, and most of us dont care. As I said to my mother just before she died, if there is a God, in whatever form ...let me know.....Im still waiting, and that was 20 years ago! What if we are ALL wrong, and the God IS in fact Ju Ju in the mountain!! We would have wasted our whole short lives believing in a fairytale designed by humans to keep humans at bay, while we could have been out there expanding our horizons and getting on with life. It is in our nature to want to believe in some higher being watching over us, while the rational fact is that, thousand of years later, we still wait a great comming.....what a waste. I am constantly amazed that so called rational people still believe in fairytales like these...Its frightening. to think of that percerntage of Americans who believe that the earth is a mere 6000 years old.......

The 50 million or so christians in China were proably brought up Athiest.

So how many Christians believe the world is 600O years old not many and you dont need to go to the USA to see them go to the north and see the free presbyterian church.

As for Fairy tales not being educational dont tell me you were never read Aesops fables or Oscar Wilde stories as a child. As for social commentary Gullivers travels was it back in the day .All contained relevant social commentary.

Please stop looking at richard dawkins outtakes on youtube as none of this has anything to do with the exiatance of God.

snafuk35

I have yet to hear Christians ever discussing Jesus as a normal man.

I mean imagine Jesus as a baby who needed to be breast fed and have his diaper changed?
Presumably he suffered from colds and flus and other diseases.
He had to have lost his baby teeth and went to the equivalent of the dentist to have his wisdom teeth pulled or to take care of his cavities.
As a teenager did he do his homework, did he have crushes, acne, involuntary erections and wet dreams and masturbation fantasies?
Who were his childhood and teenage pals? What did they do for fun? Was he good at sports? Was he the leader of his own gang as a kid? Was he a geek who was bullied?
Did he do an apprenticeship to become a carpenter? Was he good at maths? If he ever worked did he work for other people or was he is own boss? Was he a business success? Did he advertise? What happened to the furniture or roof beams or carts or whatever he made? Were they any good?
When he was on the road he had to have gone for a pee or a dump behind a tree and had to wipe his rear end.
Did he pick his nose and dig the wax out of his ears, cut his nails or bite them? Did he shave before he grew his beard or visit a barber? Did he crack jokes, was he ever in a fist fight and get a black eye or cut his finger on a blade or step in dog droppings? Did he ever kiss a girl, go on a date or have sex?

When he became a preacher he was lampooned by the locals but what was their attitude after his crucifixion and death? What happened to Lazarus and the other people he raised form the dead? Why didn't someone write down their stories.

You never hear Christians EVER talking about any of this stuff.
I mean if Jesus really existed as real man this stuff has to be considered.

Jesus was hardly this figure in white floating on the clouds was he?

marienbad

PDN wrote: »

And you're entitled to your opinion. But the majority of biblical scholars with whom I have discussed this (including non-Christians and atheists) would disagree with you. Still, I defend your right to hold to your own opinion based on ... well, on whatever you feel is relevant.


I don't think so. It is, for me, a matter of eternal importance how I interpret the Bible. Therefore I dare not handle it dishonestly.

Of course if I didn't give a hoot if my interpretation was correct or not, and just wanted to find an interpretation that might win an argument, then things might be different.


Yes, if you think the theory of evolution is a holy text that will determine your eternal destiny then yes, that would be a very apt comparison.


I wish they would post in this Forum.


Sorry, in what way different?

Taken in the context of my post on that passage, the every army before or since raped their defeated enemies.

By the way claiming that your eternal salvation deepened on your interpretation of the bible cuts no ice , if anything it makes you more prone to subjective decision, but i accept we won't agree on that.

There are many sincere atheists that post in this forum but everything becomes polarised so quickly. And if you dont mind me saying so your default position seems to be a bit of a smart-arse first and and considered second. Maybe you have just experienced too many trolls.

greenpilot

beerbuddy wrote: »

The 50 million or so christians in China were proably brought up Athiest.

So how many Christians believe the world is 600O years old not many and you dont need to go to the USA to see them go to the north and see the free presbyterian church.

As for Fairy tales not being educational dont tell me you were never read Aesops fables or Oscar Wilde stories as a child. As for social commentary Gullivers travels was it back in the day .All contained relevant social commentary.

Please stop looking at richard dawkins outtakes on youtube as none of this has anything to do with the exiatance of God.

Correct, Richard Dawkins seems to be the ONLY person who continues to give a rational argument AGAINST the existance of God, so how can you say that this has nothing to do with the existance of a Supreme Being??

PDN

snafuk35 wrote: »

I have yet to hear Christians ever discussing Jesus as a normal man.

I mean imagine Jesus as a baby who needed to be breast fed and have his diaper changed?
Presumably he suffered from colds and flus and other diseases.
He had to have lost his baby teeth and went to the equivalent of the dentist to have his wisdom teeth pulled or to take care of his cavities.
As a teenager did he do his homework, did he have crushes, acne, involuntary erections and wet dreams and masturbation fantasies?
Who were his childhood and teenage pals? What did they do for fun? Was he good at sports? Was he the leader of his own gang as a kid? Was he a geek who was bullied?
Did he do an apprenticeship to become a carpenter? Was he good at maths? If he ever worked did he work for other people or was he is own boss? Was he a business success? Did he advertise? What happened to the furniture or roof beams or carts or whatever he made? Were they any good?
When he was on the road he had to have gone for a pee or a dump behind a tree and had to wipe his rear end.
Did he pick his nose and dig the wax out of his ears, cut his nails or bite them? Did he shave before he grew his beard or visit a barber? Did he crack jokes, was he ever in a fist fight and get a black eye or cut his finger on a blade or step in dog droppings? Did he ever kiss a girl, go on a date or have sex?

Maybe you should try attending a Church. I am a pastor and I've often sat with our youth and they ask each other, and me, these kinds of questions all the time.

Or you could try reading up on Church History. There was a heretical sect called the Docetists who believed that Jesus was not fully human, and that He got rid of toxins in his food by sweating it out through His skin. Their views were rejected by mainstream Christianity which held that Jesus was fully human.

(Incidentally, it's perfectly possible to be fully human and not do everything you mentioned above).

When he became a preacher he was lampooned by the locals but what was their attitude after his crucifixion and death?

I guess some of them changed their mind and followed Him, and others didn't. Pretty much what you'd expect from human nature.

What happened to Lazarus and the other people he raised form the dead? Why didn't someone write down their stories.

They mau have written down his story, or they may not have. Not every book from 2000 years ago has survived.

But remember that 2000 years ago people were much less inclined to start writing books then they are today - not so much because of lower literary standards, but because prior to the invention of the printing press it was incredibly labour intensive to copy and distribute books.

You never hear Christians EVER talking about any of this stuff.
I mean if Jesus really existed as real man this stuff has to be considered.

Actually I do hear them talking about this stuff. But then again, I spend time listening to Christians.

Jesus was hardly this figure in white floating on the clouds was he?

No, but maybe you should be addressing people who think He was?

Ciaran0

PDN wrote: »

I would have thought about 4.5 billion years, But if you really want to believe it's 6000 years, then you can do so.

What do Christian's (those who accept the scientific theory of the earth's creation, the Big Bang and evolution etc.) believe God was doing for the 4.499 or so billion years between making the earth and first appearing to Humans?

PDN

marienbad wrote: »

Taken in the context of my post on that passage, the every army before or since raped their defeated enemies.

They may have, for all I know. And they may well have been different for all you know. But that is not what we've been discussing in this thread. We've been discussing whether God commanded them to rape anyone.

PDN

Ciaran0 wrote: »

What do Christian's (those who accept the scientific theory of the earth's creation, the Big Bang and evolution etc.) believe God was doing for the 4.499 or so billion years between making the earth and first appearing to Humans?

I don't know. God hasn't given me a detailed account of His activities over the last few billion years. I haven't asked Him to, and I don't really see why it would matter to me.

marienbad

PDN wrote: »

They may have, for all I know. And they may well have been different for all you know. But that is not what we've been discussing in this thread. We've been discussing whether God commanded them to rape anyone.

Agreed, therefore it is you that are stretching the interpretative boundaries in assuming they did not behave as every other army did and this while carrying out Gods mandate. Though you are not going as far as ISAW with his indentured servant line.

As I said earlier if Christians can accept ( with reservations) the genocide, murder of children, enslavement etc whats the problem ?

God (the Bible) did'nt use the specific word ? a bit like ''will no-one rid me of this meddlesome priest'' kind of thinking.

PDN

marienbad wrote: »

Agreed, therefore it is you that are stretching the interpretative boundaries in assuming they did not behave as every other army did and this while carrying out Gods mandate. Though you are not going as far as ISAW with his indentured servant line.

Do you actually read people's posts before attributing positions to them?

I have stated that there is no evidence to support the assertion that God commanded the Israelites to rape anyone. I have expressed no opinion as to whether rapes actually occurred or not.

As I said earlier if Christians can accept ( with reservations) the genocide, murder of children, enslavement etc whats the problem ?

The problem is that, if you are to argue that the Bible says something, then you should be prepared to offer some evidence to back that up.

God (the Bible) did'nt use the specific word ? a bit like ''will no-one rid me of this meddlesome priest'' kind of thinking.

I think it's more a case of "let's make up something to suit our agenda" kind of thinking.

saa

Doesn't issues of the bible side track this discussion, the theoretical discussion of a God, the bible would restrain the God as we know it or a God but not as the bible discusses' it.

Its an important factor to be aware of but does the existence of a God really come down to this text, not for everyone, must be accepted but folks of either side its not the whole discussion.

i.e ooh the bible says that which is rather messed up or contradicts versus the bible says this so this is true and right... kind of becomes a narrow and unproductive argument.

lmaopml

marienbad wrote: »

Agreed, therefore it is you that are stretching the interpretative boundaries in assuming they did not behave as every other army did and this while carrying out Gods mandate. Though you are not going as far as ISAW with his indentured servant line.

As I said earlier if Christians can accept ( with reservations) the genocide, murder of children, enslavement etc whats the problem ?

God (the Bible) did'nt use the specific word ? a bit like ''will no-one rid me of this meddlesome priest'' kind of thinking.

Marien, in 5000 years perhaps man will decide that we were grossly immoral and icky people to keep animals for pets and everybody will be vegetarian, and not understand society 'today' - and most likely some will believe that Christians are backwards or whatever...Ce sera!

The point is - That none of that really matters to a Christian, there are some fundamental truths, mainly to love God and your neighbour as yourself with every fibre of your being - This is something we have yet to perfect I think as a collective..lol.

....Anybody with any kind of close examination realises that people are Christian for a reason, a very good reason, and Christianity is not a dismal or destructive worldview - and neither is it one that will secumb to lazy reading of the Scriptures, from people who are clearly projecting without even knowing it....rather than understanding the way it's meant to be understood.

A Christian will not 'describe' God perfectly to you - we only know what he 'is not' as opposed to what he 'is' in every minute detail - He commits so called genocide every single day from his perspective, and permits evil too....The deep questions are, 'why so?'

There are so many ways to investigate these things from a neutral position rather than just reading Richard Dawkins et al, who's a great Scientist, but borrowed his ideas from Atheists who posessed a little decorum and more in depth knowledge of the Scriptures and historical people too..

marienbad

PDN wrote: »

Do you actually read people's posts before attributing positions to them?

I have stated that there is no evidence to support the assertion that God commanded the Israelites to rape anyone. I have expressed no opinion as to whether rapes actually occurred or not.

The problem is that, if you are to argue that the Bible says something, then you should be prepared to offer some evidence to back that up.

I think it's more a case of "let's make up something to suit our agenda" kind of thinking.

I do read your posts PDN ! Do you read your own is really the question !!
Any rational reading of that passage supports my interpretation , by the internal logic of the sentences and by our empirical knowledge of how ancient ( and modern ) armies behave .

You have just illustrated the point I made earlier opposing your contention that eternal salvation aids ones understanding of the bible .

As for making ''stuff up to suit an agenda'' - aw come on PDN - I have no agenda as such - I have lived worked and had a family in a religious country where those religions have not been adverse to using their power for better or worse and therefore they are of interest to me.

Ciaran0

PDN wrote: »

I don't know. God hasn't given me a detailed account of His activities over the last few billion years. I haven't asked Him to, and I don't really see why it would matter to me.

Do you not wonder what God's been up to though? I mean four and a half Billion years is quite a long time. Do you not question why God does what he does? Do you not question why it's been 2000 years since we've had any word from him? Do you think maybe he's forgotten about us? Do you not question why, if God is perfectly divine what were his reason's for making nature with such terrible flaws? For making man with such terrible flaws? Do you not question why he bothered making the universe at all, seeing as he has heaven and hell lined up for us when we die? And then why bother with hell? Seeing as he created everything in his own perfectly divine way, why bother making one of his right hand men with an evil streak? Why not create Lucifer perfectly and skip the whole Hell thing, why not make everyone perfect from the start? Couldn't we all just spend a happy eternity in Heaven? He loves all of us doesn't he? So won't he be rooting for us to be good and get to heaven? If he want's us all to get into heaven and is all powerful, why do a lot of people not get into heaven? Why did he create sadness? Why are people miserable? Do you not wonder about these things? Do you not ask questions? If God didn't want us to question his existence, why did he make us so damned curious? If he wanted us to be obedient and do his word, why did he make us disobedient? Why did he make rules for some people that don't apply to others? Why did he chose a small tribe of illiterate, uneducated people living in the desert to be his chosen people when there were more enlightened, educated and literate people just over in china? Why did he not appear to the millions of other tribes on the planet at the time? If he didn't want people worshipping false gods, why didn't he get in there first? As it is Christianity has two billion or so believers, that's a great number, but what'll happen to the other five billion? Why did he create all of us, just to let five billion go to waste?

I'm happy to go on all day?

The Quadratic Equation

Ciaran0 wrote: »

What do Christian's (those who accept the scientific theory of the earth's creation, the Big Bang and evolution etc.) believe God was doing for the 4.499 or so billion years between making the earth and first appearing to Humans?

How long do athiests think 4.499 billion years matters or feels to an infinate spirit that exists infinately ?

PDN

Ciaran0 wrote: »

Do you not wonder what God's been up to though? I mean four and a half Billion years is quite a long time. Do you not question why God does what he does? Do you not question why it's been 2000 years since we've any word from him? Do you think maybe he's forgotten about us? Do you not question why, if God is perfectly divine what were his reason's for making nature with such terrible flaws? For making man with such terrible flaws? Do you not question why he bothered making the universe at all, seeing as he has heaven and hell lined up for us when we die? And then why bother with hell? Seeing as he created everything in his own perfectly divine way, why bother making one of his right hand men with an evil streak? Why not create Lucifer perfectly and skip the whole Hell thing, why not make everyone perfect from the start? Couldn't we all just spend a happy eternity in Heaven? He loves all of us doesn't he? So won't he be rooting for us to be good and get to heaven? Why did he create sadness? Why are people miserable? Do you not wonder about these things? Do you not ask questions? If God didn't want us to question his existence, why did he make us so damned curious? If he wanted us to be obedient and do his word, why did he make us disobedient? Why did he make rules for some people that don't apply to others? Why did he chose a small tribe of illiterate, uneducated people living in the desert to be his chosen people when there were more enlightened, educated and literate people just over in china? Why did he not appear to the millions of other tribes on the planet at the time? If he didn't want people worshipping false gods, why didn't he get in there first? As it is Christianity has two billion or so believers, that's a great number, but what'll happen to the other five billion? Why did he create all of us, just to let five billion go to waste?

I'm happy to go on all day?

I wonder about many things, but I try not to waste my time on stuff that we have no answers to, and where we lack the attributes necessary to ever reach an answer.

A lot of your questions are based on the assumption that God is somehow subject to your limitations. It's a bit like a cockroach looking at me and wondering why my actions (tapping on a laptop while watching TV) make no sense to a cockroach.

The concept of waste only applies where resources are finite. An eternal God, for example, cannot by definition waste time. If He has existed since all eternity past, and will exist for all eternity future, then the concept of wasting time is nonsense. It doesn't matter if something is done in a fraction of a second or if it's done over a period of billions of years. Similarly, an omnipotent God cannot waste energy.

PDN

marienbad wrote: »

I do read your posts PDN ! Do you read your own is really the question !!

Then that raises the obvious question as to why you misrepresent my views. I read my own posts, which is why I know that I never claimed that the Israelites never raped anyone. I addressed the assertion that God commanded anyone to commit rape.

Any rational reading of that passage supports my interpretation , by the internal logic of the sentences and by our empirical knowledge of how ancient ( and modern ) armies behave .

I see - so now anyone who disagrees with you on this is irrational? That's nice.

Empirical knowledge of how armies behave (although my friends who served in the Irish army as UN peacekeepers might disagree with your sweeping generalisations) has no relevance to the subject we have been discussing for many pages now - namely the assertion by atheists that God, in the Bible, commanded rape.

Nor does the internal logic of the sentences support that assertion.

You have just illustrated the point I made earlier opposing your contention that eternal salvation aids ones understanding of the bible .

That is false and untrue. Just because I disagree with you does not justify such an assertion.

marienbad

PDN wrote: »

Then that raises the obvious question as to why you misrepresent my views. I read my own posts, which is why I know that I never claimed that the Israelites never raped anyone. I addressed the assertion that God commanded anyone to commit rape.


I see - so now anyone who disagrees with you on this is irrational? That's nice.

Empirical knowledge of how armies behave (although my friends who served in the Irish army as UN peacekeepers might disagree with your sweeping generalisations) has no relevance to the subject we have been discussing for many pages now - namely the assertion by atheists that God, in the Bible, commanded rape.



Nor does the internal logic of the sentences support that assertion.


That is false and untrue. Just because I disagree with you does not justify such an assertion.

Ok PDN -, the red herrings just get tiresome. We are not going to agree so lets just leave it , The Christians with the simple sword of truth has vanquished yet another unbeliever

Ciaran0

PDN wrote: »

I wonder about many things, but I try not to waste my time on stuff that we have no answers to, and where we lack the attributes necessary to ever reach an answer.

A lot of your questions are based on the assumption that God is somehow subject to your limitations. It's a bit like a cockroach looking at me and wondering why my actions (tapping on a laptop while watching TV) make no sense to a cockroach.

.

Do you not want to find out though? If, a thousand years ago, a hurricane killed many people, they would have assumed that it was the work of god. But we've progressed and through asking questions we now know why hurricanes happen.

The god you believe in wants our love and obedience. Does he want us to progress? Did he ever say, go out and figure out why the world is the way it is? Be inquisitive? Ask questions?

Do you not want to know why things are the way they are?
You won't get an answer unless you ask questions.

Sin City

Ciaran0 wrote: »

Do you not want to find out though? If, a thousand years ago, a hurricane killed many people, they would have assumed that it was the work of god. But we've progressed and through asking questions we now know why hurricanes happen.

The god you believe in wants our love and obedience. Does he want us to progress? Did he ever say, go out and figure out why the world is the way it is? Be inquisitive? Ask questions?

Do you not want to know why things are the way they are?
You won't get an answer unless you ask questions.

I have to agree. How can you believe anything unless you have questioned it thoroughly. Im sure God doesmt want people who blindly follow him without questioning themsleves why they do and not because they were conditioned too

PDN

marienbad wrote: »

Ok PDN -, the red herrings just get tiresome. We are not going to agree so lets just leave it , The Christians with the simple sword of truth has vanquished yet another unbeliever

I fail to see how it is 'red herrings' to try to address the actual subject under discussion, rather than imputing positions to others that they have neither held or expressed.

PDN

Ciaran0 wrote: »

Do you not want to find out though? If, a thousand years ago, a hurricane killed many people, they would have assumed that it was the work of god. But we've progressed and through asking questions we now know why hurricanes happen.

The god you believe in wants our love and obedience. Does he want us to progress? Did he ever say, go out and figure out why the world is the way it is? Be inquisitive? Ask questions?

Do you not want to know why things are the way they are?
You won't get an answer unless you ask questions.

That's fine, asking questions about hurricanes can lead us to answers.

But debating what God might have been doing billions of years ago, when there is no prospect of discovering the answer, is the kind of philosophical navel-gazing that really requires a considerable amount of alcohol.

There are certain questions that are meaningless, in that we lack the capacity to answer them. There's certainly nothing wrong with admitting that we don't know some things, or that we are unlikely to ever know them in this life.

What is funny, is that the same people who deride us for saying we don't know such things tend to be the same people who, with the next breath, will attack us as being arrogant and behaving as if we have all the answers.