Mgmt company charging me for maintenance on apartment

Plentyofice

Guys,

Maybe someone can advise on this. As with most housing estates there is a mgmt company that looks after garden maintenance, lighting etc etc. I've owned an apartment for 5 years but have not had a tenant in it until this year. So I paid the annual €600 fee for this year. They have now billed me for €2400 for the previous 4 years (they only billed me now as they didn;t know who owned the apartment- coz it was empty).
I have major grievance on this. Why should I pay for maintenance that I didn;t ask for, was of no beneift to me during the 4 years the apartment was empty and the fact that with no tenants and no trouble my apartment did not require extra road lighting , lawn mowing, painting etc etc.??
Should I get a solicitor or where do I stand on this matter ??
I've no problem paying going forward when I have a tenant (which I intend to do given the economic climate, and don;t ask why I didn't have one before!!

emilyjmc

You should have a look at the leasehold documentation you received when you bought the apartment. Usually you would sign a contract agreeing to pay annual management fees as part of all the legal documentation when you buy the apartment. It wouldn't matter to the management company whether you choose to occupy your property or not - you would generally still be obliged to pay the management fee as per the contract you would have signed. I guess if it's not stipulated in your legal documentation you might have a case and it could be worth getting legal advice, however if you have signed a contract to pay the fees then you will probably have to pay up!

jd

You owe the money, you agreed to pay maintenance charges when you bought the apartment (and became a member of the management company). By the way part of the service charge goes towards block insurance.

professore

One of the main reasons I would never buy an apartment.

giant_midget

Plentyofice wrote: »

Guys,

Maybe someone can advise on this. As with most housing estates there is a mgmt company that looks after garden maintenance, lighting etc etc. I've owned an apartment for 5 years but have not had a tenant in it until this year. So I paid the annual €600 fee for this year. They have now billed me for €2400 for the previous 4 years (they only billed me now as they didn;t know who owned the apartment- coz it was empty).
I have major grievance on this. Why should I pay for maintenance that I didn;t ask for, was of no beneift to me during the 4 years the apartment was empty and the fact that with no tenants and no trouble my apartment did not require extra road lighting , lawn mowing, painting etc etc.??
Should I get a solicitor or where do I stand on this matter ??
I've no problem paying going forward when I have a tenant (which I intend to do given the economic climate, and don;t ask why I didn't have one before!!

You don't owe them a cent. Why pay for busy body gimps who want to plant trees and cut grass in their spare time??

It's not a legal invoice, where do you have a binding contract with the "management company"?

Post the envelope back to them marking clearly in red marker on the envelope "JUNK MAIL"

You are not obliged to pay any fees of this nature. If they start to get heavy you tell them you will be reporting them to the Garda under the Non fatal offence against the person act 1997 for trying to harass you for money that you don't legally owe...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0010.html

emilyjmc

giant_midget wrote: »

You don't owe them a cent. Why pay for busy body gimps who want to plant trees and cut grass in their spare time??

It's not a legal invoice, where do you have a binding contract with the "management company"?

Post the envelope back to them marking clearly in red marker on the envelope "JUNK MAIL"

You are not obliged to pay any fees of this nature. If they start to get heavy you tell them you will be reporting them to the Garda under the Non fatal offence against the person act 1997 for trying to harass you for money that you don't legally owe...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0010.html

It is the norm when a person buys an apartment within a complex with a management company that they do sign a contract agreeing to pay the management fees and abide by any house rules - so unless he has not signed a contact (which would be unlikely) he is obliged to pay the fees and the management company have every right to pursue him for same.

MissFlitworth

giant_midget wrote: »

You don't owe them a cent. Why pay for busy body gimps who want to plant trees and cut grass in their spare time
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0010.html

I think you're getting management companies and residents committees confused.

GalwayKiefer

emilyjmc wrote: »

You should have a look at the leasehold documentation you received when you bought the apartment. Usually you would sign a contract agreeing to pay annual management fees as part of all the legal documentation when you buy the apartment. It wouldn't matter to the management company whether you choose to occupy your property or not - you would generally still be obliged to pay the management fee as per the contract you would have signed. I guess if it's not stipulated in your legal documentation you might have a case and it could be worth getting legal advice, however if you have signed a contract to pay the fees then you will probably have to pay up!

+1.

Check your paperwork from when you purchased the apartment, it will be in writing somewhere that you are agreeing to contribute to management company fees. The management company is usually made up of a number of unit owners in the complex and they in turn appoint an agent (the company who pays the insurance, has the grass cut, cleans the hallways etc.) to carry out the day-to-day activities.

syklops

Plentyofice wrote: »

Guys,

Why should I pay for maintenance that I didn;t ask for, was of no beneift to me during the 4 years the apartment was empty and the fact that with no tenants and no trouble my apartment did not require extra road lighting , lawn mowing, painting etc etc.??

Well I suppose you have to ask yourself if your tenant would still have agreed to move in if the lawn was unkempt, the apartment needed painting, and had insufficient lighting. I know I wouldn't.

eden_my_ass

GalKiefer wrote: »

+1.

Check your paperwork from when you purchased the apartment, it will be in writing somewhere that you are agreeing to contribute to management company fees. The management company is usually made up of a number of unit owners in the complex and they in turn appoint an agent (the company who pays the insurance, has the grass cut, cleans the hallways etc.) to carry out the day-to-day activities.

Just to add to that to be clear, the management company is made up of ALL the unit owners in the complex, a small few may offer themselves up as directors each year to supervise dealings with the then appointed management agent who will take care of all the day to day dealings. In most complexes you have no choice but to become a member of the management company the day you sign contracts for the property and you can never leave :P Nor can you sell the property with fees due, I know we're relatively new to the concept but its really not that difficult.

whippet

giant_midget wrote: »

You don't owe them a cent. Why pay for busy body gimps who want to plant trees and cut grass in their spare time??

It's not a legal invoice, where do you have a binding contract with the "management company"?

Post the envelope back to them marking clearly in red marker on the envelope "JUNK MAIL"

You are not obliged to pay any fees of this nature. If they start to get heavy you tell them you will be reporting them to the Garda under the Non fatal offence against the person act 1997 for trying to harass you for money that you don't legally owe...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0010.html

perfect example of why never to take legal advise from people on the internet ...... i've never read such tosh in all my life!!

davo10

Management company fees have actually very little to do with the maintanence of each individual apartment/house as this is the responcibility of the owner, and everything to do with the overall mantainance of the complex such as lighting,pathways, perhaps refuse areas, stairways, basements, parking areas etc. It does not take long at all for a new complex to look tired and unappealling to perspective buyers/tenents if it is not maitained well.

As in all cases the devil is in the detail. OP as part of your purchase contract with the vendor, a commitment to pay maintanence charges is likely to have been included. This is now standard for most multiunit complexes. An AGM is usually held each year where charges/tenders for upkeep are discussed and voted apon, you should have made it your business to attend and question the charges if you deem them unfair.

I live in a 30 house gated complex, at our most recent AGM the chairman informed those in attendence that a court judgement had been obtained against 3 owners (they were speculators who bought for the tax breaks and never lived there) for non payment of maintanence fees. Also a lean was obtained on the properties so that they could not be sold without payment of fees in full (or deducted from selling fee).

OP as the others have said, refer to your contract, your commitment to fees will be outlined there.

Giant_midget, it's hard to know what to say about your post except its wrong on every point.

touts

The c*** builders in my estate have control of the management company. They have provided only the most basic services. Sewage system was only emptied when it overflowed and the council take an health and safety enforcement order against them. The green space is been cut no more than 3 times in last 2 years. They have been caught using the electricity from the street lights to power their building activity on site. And in return for that service they have increased the annual fee from €600 to €1500 and threatened all residents with legal action if we dont pay. They are doing it because the bank is after them and fleecing the residents in the only way they have of making money. The residents association has hired a solicitor and are going to get an injunction against them. The council is also trying to take over the estate but they cant until the builder completes certain tasks but as that would mean the builder loses his management company income he is refusing to cooperate with the council. Its going to be a complete lengthy and expensive mess.

The law seriously needs to clamp down on cowboy management companies.

jd

touts wrote: »

The law seriously needs to clamp down on cowboy management companies.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Multi_Unit_Act

maxer68

Plentyofice wrote: »

Guys,

Maybe someone can advise on this. As with most housing estates there is a mgmt company that looks after garden maintenance, lighting etc etc. I've owned an apartment for 5 years but have not had a tenant in it until this year. So I paid the annual €600 fee for this year. They have now billed me for €2400 for the previous 4 years (they only billed me now as they didn;t know who owned the apartment- coz it was empty).
I have major grievance on this. Why should I pay for maintenance that I didn;t ask for, was of no beneift to me during the 4 years the apartment was empty and the fact that with no tenants and no trouble my apartment did not require extra road lighting , lawn mowing, painting etc etc.??
Should I get a solicitor or where do I stand on this matter ??
I've no problem paying going forward when I have a tenant (which I intend to do given the economic climate, and don;t ask why I didn't have one before!!

A solicitor will tell you what many here have told you. It a payable charge and its usually very clearly marked out in your sales contract. Also, if you were to sell it, no-one will finalise purchase until you show all charges have been paid.

The charge can also sometimes cover buildings insurance and usually part of it goes into a fund for repainting the entire block every 10 years or so. Public liability insurance for people in the common areas is also usually included.

Its not just about cutting the grass.

Plentyofice

Appreciate your responses guys. It is is the contract when i bought the apartment. I suppose the 2 things that annoy me are
1. I (wrongly) did not read the small print on the contract and thus was pissed off to find an outstanding bill for 4 years WITH INTEREST added on to it that I knew absolutely nothing about (once again-partially my fault, it was on my contract). I wouldn;t mind the hit if I got it once a year and was notified year by year
2. I understand there is a maintenance contract for roads, lighting, grass cutting etc etc but the fact I had no need, desire, interest, requirement for my apartment for said maintenance and someone living in the estate permanently got use out of it for the same price....rubs the salt a tad.

Anyway my problem.:(

Menas

The annual costs are always dominated by Electric, Insurance, cleaning, garbage disposal, security, cost of management company (if there is one) and then maintenance.
The total cost of these is split amongst all appartment owners, sometimes those with larger apartments pay more then those with smaller. Also there can be a surcharge for those with parking spots if not every apartment has one.
As said earlier, you will have to pay this as the debt is on the apartment and will prevent you from selling.
The leasehold also covers the mechanism for outstanding debts. Normaly x% above a named banks lending (or overdraft) rate.
The terms and conditions will cover all this and no solicitor will take you case on.
I understand you are angry at this but you really need to understand what you are taking on when you make a purchase like this. Certainly your solicitor should have advised you of this at the time of purchase.

touts

Trigger Happy wrote: »

The annual costs are always dominated by Electric, Insurance, cleaning, garbage disposal, security, cost of management company (if there is one) and then maintenance.
The total cost of these is split amongst all appartment owners, sometimes those with larger apartments pay more then those with smaller. Also there can be a surcharge for those with parking spots if not every apartment has one.
As said earlier, you will have to pay this as the debt is on the apartment and will prevent you from selling.
The leasehold also covers the mechanism for outstanding debts. Normaly x% above a named banks lending (or overdraft) rate.
The terms and conditions will cover all this and no solicitor will take you case on.
I understand you are angry at this but you really need to understand what you are taking on when you make a purchase like this. Certainly your solicitor should have advised you of this at the time of purchase.

That's in a well run management company.

In most management companies the biggest cost is developer greed. The banks are on their backs now and as they can't sell more houses or apartments the only way they can raise money is to raise fees and cut services. Some scum builders are now charging up to €1500 per house/apartment. In a development with say 100 units that's €150,000.

Assuming the builder cuts the grass three or four times a year himself and has a flat rate with the ESB for the lights then Insurance (if they even have it) is the main cost. At least $140,000 of the €150,000 could be pure profit.

If the management company is set up seperate from the original development company (say with the developer's wife/father/son etc listed as the directors) then the banks can't touch it if the developement company goes bust.

It's not sustainable but until the government cracks down on it these parasites can become rich on this scam.