For parents of obese children

barbs84

Zamboni wrote: »

She was morbidly obese because she has consumed calories in excess of her actual requirements.
It is actually very rare for a person to have a medical condition that results in obesity.
And even, in those incredibly rare circumstances, excess calories still must be consumed for the human body to be able to store those calories as adipose tissue.
All parents are responsible for the nutritional requirements of their offspring.
If a child is overweight, the parents are directly responsible.

actually you can gain an enormous amount of weight when on medication, one of my sisters does be very sick, while in crumlim childrens hospital she was put on a new type of medication, she was always under weight but after being in these a month she gained 2 stone, she had to take them for 3 months and gained over 7 stone which made her look morbidly obese (thankfully she lost it all when she came of the medication) and it cant be said it was due to excess calories, as she could not eat, so before goin on your rant and saying it is down to eating you should check your facts out first.

Morag

melekalikimaka wrote: »

mneh, thats an excuse, if your prone to weigh gain, watch carefully what you eat, fat doesn't just appear, it's caused by consuming more than your body needs.

you can sugar coat it all you want (excuse the pun) but thats what it comes down to, there is no excuse in an educated society for fat children, adults can make their own decisions, but children are dependents and allowing them get like that is wrong

In some cases it's not, if a person eats irregularly enough their body goes into starvation mode and will hold on to every possible calorie. This is why it's important to eat a breakfast and eat at regular interviews over the day. A person and esp a child can be under eating the amount of calories needed and eating what they do in a irregular binge manner and of the wrong foods which can case them to gain fat while their body is not getting what it needs.
This leads to lack of energy, sleeplessness, lack of focus which is part of a horrible cycle.

A person/child needs to eat to loose fat, to give thier body what it needs to that it will start breaking down the fat it's not as simple as eat less loss fat.

And then there is that fact that high sugar, high salt, high mgs and a high crab diet will have a person craving those things, so it's a hard battle, hard enough for a determined adult never mind a child.

melekalikimaka

barbs84 wrote: »

actually you can gain an enormous amount of weight when on medication, one of my sisters does be very sick, while in crumlim childrens hospital she was put on a new type of medication, she was always under weight but after being in these a month she gained 2 stone, she had to take them for 3 months and gained over 7 stone which made her look morbidly obese (thankfully she lost it all when she came of the medication) and it cant be said it was due to excess calories, as she could not eat, so before goin on your rant and saying it is down to eating you should check your facts out first.

theres always exceptional cases... using an example like that does not in anyway debunk the validity of the op's post

Moonbeam

I think that this is a good idea -
http://www.healthystart.nhs.uk/

What is Healthy Start?

With Healthy Start, you can get free vouchers every week which you use to buy milk, plain fresh and frozen fruit and vegetables and infant formula milk. You can also get free vitamins.

Pregnant or have children under four?

You could qualify if you're on benefits or you're pregnant and under 18.

Zamboni

Moonbeam wrote: »

I think that this is a good idea -
http://www.healthystart.nhs.uk/

Interesting programme.
It is one angle of approach that targets welfare recipients.

The main thing is though, is that obesity is ubiqutious in all strata of society.
The best approach that would be applicable to all parents in this country is to acknowledge in legislation that the parent is directly responsible for a child nutrition and that a parent of an obese child should be treated in the same fashion as a person guitly of physical, sexual abuse or malnutrition of a child.
Any person that willingly over feeds a child to the point of obesity is a child abuser.

silverharp

Zamboni wrote: »

......a parent of an obese child should be treated in the same fashion as a person guitly of physical, sexual abuse or malnutrition of a child.
Any person that willingly over feeds a child to the point of obesity is a child abuser.

Not very helpful, the "regulated" food industry have responsibilty here too, to follow through with your logic, you would need to reclass companies like Kellogs,Nestle and Archer Daniels like Cigarette companies. And then we would need to ask why we have food subsidies for grain farmers which make carb based food cheaper relative to vegatables

Zamboni

silverharp wrote: »

Not very helpful, the "regulated" food industry have responsibilty here too, to follow through with your logic, you would need to reclass companies like Kellogs,Nestle and Archer Daniels like Cigarette companies. And then we would need to ask why we have food subsidies for grain farmers which make carb based food cheaper relative to vegatables

The individual cannot affect what a company produces and sells.
The individual can and does choose what they purchase.
The individual has responsibility.

Yes food companies are bastards. That is a separate topic which I have not referenced so please do not assume to use my 'logic'.

silverharp

Zamboni wrote: »

The individual cannot affect what a company produces and sells.
The individual can and does choose what they purchase.
The individual has responsibility.

Yes food companies are bastards. That is a separate topic which I have not referenced so please do not assume to use my 'logic'.

People should have responsibility I'm just slow to demonise people where in many cases it comes down to lack of education. I doubt if many parents set out to have fat kids, although when I hear stories of parents being very lax , the word "idiots" does cross my mind :pac:

Zamboni

silverharp wrote: »

People should have responsibility I'm just slow to demonise people where in many cases it comes down to lack of education. I doubt if many parents set out to have fat kids, although when I hear stories of parents being very lax , the word "idiots" does cross my mind :pac:

Aye, I don't think anybody sets out to have overweight kids

But, as already mentioned, there is no lack of education.
The subject matter arises in various forms over the standard schooling of a child. Biology, Home Economics, Food Science for example.
I would concede that maybe there was a lack of education amongst the older population but everyone instinctively knows that a person is fat because they eat too much.
This is not about demonising people.
It is about an adult accepting responsibilty for its child and being held accountable for its well being.

Morag

But eating 'too much' has changed as there are so many calorie dense food these days.

Zamboni

Sharrow wrote: »

But eating 'too much' has changed as there are so many calorie dense food these days.

Yes there is a sophistication of food production resulting in masses of poor quality food available. But when you walk into a supermarket, you are the consumer, the choice maker. This has not changed.
There is nothing wrong with calorie dense foods to be fair. I consume a lot of high calorie foods like nuts, avacado's, fish oil. It doesn't make me fat.
It is over consumption of calories in excess of requirements which makes people fat.

kelle

Ayla wrote: »

Actually, I completely disagree...you can pop a roast & veg in a slow cooker in the morning & wind up with a gorgeous (and healthy) stew by the time you come home from work in the evening. It takes more forethought but it's definitely no harder.

Homemade burgers & chips take minutes to make from scratch and are much healthier & tastier than premade processed stuff.

Totally agree with you, the slow cooker is a great invention. You can even put a full chicken into it and it will be cooked when you get home - the skin won't be crispy so it will be discarded (less calories!), and it's so tender it just melts in your mouth!

My kids hate vegetables and won't eat them- but they adore my shepherd's pie, lasagne and chicken curry which I make with "just sauce". They don't realise the "sauce" is carrots, celery, courgettes, onions, tomatoes (and whatever else I can fit in) boiled up then pureed with a blender. Then I'll just add tomato puree or spices to taste!

I never add fat or oil when cooking, I don't see the point. With non-stick saucepans there's no need to and if the food is dry-fried gently at a low temperature it won't burn.

Homemade burgers can be made much nicer than processed ones, just buy beefsteak mince (less than 10%fat and only €2.89 in Aldi at the moment for 540g) and mix with onion, spices, tomato sauce - delicious! And chicken nuggets can be coated with breadcrumbs, cornflakes, sesame seeds.

Mine have treats from time to time, they can afford to have them because I ensure their fat/salt consumption is low.

It's so sad that some parents can't be bothered to cook from scratch. I'm no Jamie Oliver, but I find cooking relaxing and enjoy experimenting. How one can live on takeaways is beyond me!

taz70

Moonbeam wrote: »

I think that this is a good idea -
http://www.healthystart.nhs.uk/

What is Healthy Start?

With Healthy Start, you can get free vouchers every week which you use to buy milk, plain fresh and frozen fruit and vegetables and infant formula milk. You can also get free vitamins.

Pregnant or have children under four?

You could qualify if you're on benefits or you're pregnant and under 18.

Oh, God - how ironic :rolleyes: There is an association between infant formula and childhood obesity. Evidence suggests that children reared on infant formula are less able to regulate their intake of food - ie, they eat till the plate is finished rather than until they are sated.

(not to start a debate on this - just found it ironic that formula is classed as a "healthy start" ....)

kaa

Moonbeam wrote: »

I understand your rant but you do not know if the child was ill or why she was morbidly obese.

yes i agree if she was on medication it might make her over weight. i had a friend in school that was on medication and she put on alot of weight because of them so just putting it down to over eating is not just the answer.
i was a small bit over weight as a child, eventhough i was an out door child and played like every other kid. my parents didnt make me or give me unhealthy food. as snacks i was giving apples etc, i got a treat like other kids. my parents were healthy people, they exercised and all that. and i remember been a size 16 on my confirmation day and i was never giving all bad foods every day and i just lost all that weight when i was 15 went down to a size 10 to 12 then.

maybe she copying parents habits or she can have what she wants when she wants it or it could also be she is getting bullied and is eating to make herself fell better and it has turned into an eating disorder.....you dont know why she is got this way.

but i was watching a programme afew months ago and they were saying that parents wonder if there kids are obese and compare them to other kids and since our nation is getting bigger they think there kids r a normal weight. its a scary thought that our kids could get bigger and bigger.

like anyone you like a something fatty like crisps and chocolate some times and kids are the same and you give them a treat and all that. i treat my child to a fizzy drink once a week or two weeks and i do buy biscuits and sweets for her as a snack but im lucky that she asks for a youghurt, strawberries, apples etc most of the time.

it is about time people are gettiing more aware of over eating and bad eating habits but some parents obviously still are not aware or dont care because they are in that habit themselves and their kids follow and think there child is not over weight.

but what i do hope is that parents are not passing on judgeing people because there are over weight because they have feelings too and are just like everyone else....

halpin17

I was 18 st 5lbs last June finishing 6th year biggest dude in the year took my life into my own hands and sorted it out i now weigh 14st at the end of 1st year college.yes I blame my patents for not being stricter about food or making me exercise more, cause now I can't get out of the gym i love it so much,but that been said once a child is over a certain age and is allowed freedom of money they will buy sh*tty food it's a fact I'll
Buy the mars bar not the apple you'll buy the macdonalds not the ceasar salad in marks and spencers,it happens but it's due to lack of actuall nutritional knowledge yes I know a double cheese buger is bad no I didn't know it was 450kcals see knowledge is key and needs to be shared!!!!

Zamboni

kaa wrote: »

but what i do hope is that parents are not passing on judgeing people because there are over weight because they have feelings too and are just like everyone else....

In another recent thread a man was judged for being drunk and hitting his child.
Do you think that chronic overfeeding, by a parent, over a number of years leading a child to potentially heart disease, artherosclerosis and a life of mental trauma through ridicule and poor self image is any less of an issue?

embee

Zamboni wrote: »

In another recent thread a man was judged for being drunk and hitting his child.
Do you think that chronic overfeeding, by a parent, over a number of years leading a child to potentially heart disease, artherosclerosis and a life of mental trauma through ridicule and poor self image is any less of an issue?

Zamboni, it's a question of intention. The parent who overfeeds their child isn't doing it to ensure that they become obese. The parent who chooses to get drunk and then hits their child is an entirely different scenario. I think there's a real danger here of confusing indulging your children with child abuse. They aren't the same thing. Indulging children can have serious consequences but I would find it extremely hard to believe that any parent out there would knowingly overfeed their child with the intention of them becoming obese. If a child who has parents who smoke, do you consider it some sort of inevitability that that child will smoke? Issues around food, smoking, drinking are complex and it's not so cut and dried to imply that parents of obese children are abusing their children.

Dudess

Zamboni wrote: »

The guardians of this child have forced her into a life of poor health, disease, mockery and misery.

A "life"? But surely she can just get off her arse and exercise and stop eating chips and cakes?

This child is not loved.

You haven't a clue whether that's the case or not - people who overfeed their children may be negligent in that they can't be bothered giving them anything much besides convenient junkfood, but often it's well intentioned and due to a genuine fear that the kid will be hungry. It's usually poor dietary education, not malice or a lack of love. It's a tradition in this country for a lot of families to have huge portions - several spuds and the like. It's an "Irish mammy" thing. I'm not saying it's right - it's very, very wrong and a hugely serious issue, but saying there's cruelty behind it is a bridge too far.

The next time you hear about fat people complaining about paying for bigger seats on planes or some other nonsensical issue based on there own disgusting feeding habits, think about the thousands of poor children that are being forced into a life of physical disease and mental abuse through misery.

Oh irony of ironies - what if those adults were those very children you're so upset about? And it's highly likely they were, and in turn raised by overweight parents themselves. I'm not making excuses for them, but this to me highlights a need for a bit more understanding of adults who are overweight - that it can be generational and complex and not easy for them to reverse all that damage, and there should be more positive encouragement rather than the aggressive "tough love" approach (which I've no doubt probably makes obese, miserable people feel even worse).
If my tum starts getting wobbly, I do exactly as advocated by those who have a black and white take on this: I eat less calories and I exercise. It's no biggie. A person who is several stone overweight though - it's one hell of a challenge, mentally and physically, and being dismissive of them won't help at all.

Zamboni

embee wrote: »

Zamboni, it's a question of intention. The parent who overfeeds their child isn't doing it to ensure that they become obese. The parent who chooses to get drunk and then hits their child is an entirely different scenario. I think there's a real danger here of confusing indulging your children with child abuse. They aren't the same thing. Indulging children can have serious consequences but I would find it extremely hard to believe that any parent out there would knowingly overfeed their child with the intention of them becoming obese.

Is it a matter of intention? The end result is the same. An obese person created by parents.
Indulging your child is an invariable occasion where a treat is given.
In order to achieve obese levels chronic overfeeding must take place on a regular basis for a consistent duration.
There is no confusion between indulging your child with treats and chronic overfeeding. You are attempting to grey the area.

Zamboni

Dudess wrote: »

A "life"? But surely she can just get off her arse and exercise and stop eating chips and cakes?

You wouldn't dare say the same thing about a child who has been physically or sexually abused. But surely she can just get off her arse and say 'no'.
The child I saw was about 12. Not bordering adulthood.
The parent is wholly responsible for the diet and physical activity of the child.

Dudess wrote: »

You haven't a clue whether that's the case or not - people who overfeed their children may be negligent in that they can't be bothered giving them anything much besides convenient junkfood, but often it's well intentioned and due to a genuine fear that the kid will be hungry. It's usually poor dietary education, not malice or a lack of love. It's a tradition in this country for a lot of families to have huge portions - several spuds and the like. It's an "Irish mammy" thing. I'm not saying it's right - it's very, very wrong and a hugely serious issue, but saying there's cruelty behind it is a bridge too far.

We've addressed dietary education in this thread already. It is provided.
People are choosing convenience and 'percieved' value over the health of their offspring.
Regarding Irish mammy tradtion thing, it's a farce.
Have a look at any school photo from any decade in beteen 1900 and 1980. Count the overweight kids and come back to me.

Dudess wrote: »

If my tum starts getting wobbly, I do exactly as advocated by those who have a black and white take on this: I eat less calories and I exercise. It's no biggie. A person who is several stone overweight though - it's one hell of a challenge, mentally and physically, and being dismissive of them won't help at all.

As an ex fattie, I agree you, it is easier to never become fat, than it is to be obese and try to lose it.
Hence why the focus needs to be on prevention. These obese kids have a massive uphill battle on their hands if and when they choose to try and lose the weight.

Dudess

Zamboni wrote: »

You wouldn't dare say the same thing about a child who has been physically or sexually abused. But surely she can just get off her arse and say 'no'.

I was being ironic/sarcastic - that is the attitude towards very overweight people... yet sympathy for kids who are overfed, despite the fact that overweight adults were once those kids.

We've addressed dietary education in this thread already. It is provided.
People are choosing convenience and 'percieved' value over the health of their offspring.
Regarding Irish mammy tradtion thing, it's a farce.
Have a look at any school photo from any decade in beteen 1900 and 1980. Count the overweight kids and come back to me.

Fair enough, but harming the kid is not the intention - it's laziness by many, for sure, which is unacceptable, but not malice.

Wantobe

I know people who have their 'tea' at supermacs everyday with their children. One couple in particular I've been thinking about since this thread started- they have three children, the first two are the same age as mine, and they also have a newborn baby. Their little girl, 7, is now very overweight. Both parents are overweight, the mother hugely so. Their little boy, 5, is quite skinny. They love their kids and both of the older two are great kids- very bright, polite, well brought up. The parents are from a rough background, they have tough jobs. They live in a crappy house that they bought themselves to get out of a bad council estate and they are doing it up as best they can. They work hard and they are triers. They don't seem to have a grasp of nutrition and I'm quite sure if they were educated about it they would change their habits. I think their little boy is only skinny due to him being hyper ( in a good way!) active. They are not abusing their kids, they are doing their best for them- it might not be right but I think they don't know that.

That's just one example but making sweeping generalisations about people who have overweight kids is wrong- every one should be looked at individually. And there should be HSE checks in schools etc about weight-and then a non-blame way of re-educating parents on nutrition and diet.

bulmersgal

I was only away last week and loads of the kids under 10 were so fat, they were bigger then me and i'm a size 12. I was disgusted and appalled by this. I was skinny in school but I've always had a big bum and got slagged so much over this. Is this now the new norm to have such fat children.

My daughter is only 14 months and she is fairly skinny because she is super active does not sit down, i have been following her lead with regards food portions and she has started to cut back. She gets healthy meals and its so quick to do omelette's, pasta with loads of veg, stews etc don't take very long to make.

At the moment i'm finding it very expensive as she loves berries and will eat 1 pack of berries every day. She likes a mixtures so usually cost €5 every couple of days for these alone. But I dont mind paying this as its great for them and she doesn't get as many colds now. I also give her raisins instead of sweets. Know she does get treats like 1 sausage on weekend, pack of buttons every know and again.

But I think it should be taught in school, I learned so much in Home Economics about how to cook good healthy cheap food. Supervalu had a great pack last week a stuffed chicken, potatoes and carrots only a tenner pop in oven for just over a hour they also had it with pork. Feed a family of 4 for a tenner great valu in my eyes. They also had a pack with all the veg for a stew for only couple of euro with instructions to cook. I

iguana

Sharrow wrote: »

A roast chicken 2/3 veg and potatoes (boiled/mash/roast) costs more then that.

Not really. Chickens are €3 in most supermarkets if you buy them as part of a 3 for €9 deal. You just need to head to Aldi/Lidl for their Super 6 type deals and you'll easily pick up the potatoes and veg for €2. That will easily feed 4 and have chicken left over for soup/sandwiches. And that's a roast dinner. You could make shepherds pie for 8-10 for >€5. Convenience food really isn't any cheaper.

iguana

bulmersgal wrote: »

At the moment i'm finding it very expensive as she loves berries and will eat 1 pack of berries every day. She likes a mixtures so usually cost €5 every couple of days for these alone.

Once we get toward the end of the summer you should take her blackberry picking. Wild blackberries grow in abundance in this country, are free and unbelievably yum. It would also be a good lesson about where foods come from and their seasonal nature and a fun activity to share over the years.

Zamboni

iguana wrote: »

Wild blackberries grow in abundance in this country, are free and unbelievably yum. It would also be a good lesson about where foods come from and their seasonal nature and a fun activity to share over the years.

This is an excellent point.
We are so far removed from our food supply we think food comes in microwaveable boxes.
Personally I think all kids should visit farms, abbatoir, orchards etc as part of their schooling.

bulmersgal

Yea will bring her to pick some fruit in summer, i remember farms years ago where you could go pick the fruit and then pay at the end. Just remembering eating all the berries years ago, umm they were delish. Just thinking of gooseberries now, they were gorgeous.

I like going to farms etc but kinda hate wearing programs about how animals are abused in some farms. Makes me feel bad for eating some chickens. They have chickens in garden centre near us, very well treated and I feel terrible going in ordering chicken salad then. But it is great to look at

polly78

If this is not a medical condition there is no excuse.

I have witnessed this in my line of work.....parents, 9/10 times the mother, talking about how she can't get clothes to fit the child (within 3-4yrs). When I see this I blame the parent always. I have also known of one or two children at my sons school who were very overweight for their age but the parents (members of my family were on friendly terms with them) continued to feed them whatever junk they asked for and saw no problem at all with the fact that they were huge compared to their classmates or the health implications.

silverharp

we have the opposite situation , my little lad has what I would describe as a greyhound physique and on occassion I've said to my wife is he underweight?, as it turns out he is perfectly normal, its just that the average is increasing in recent years. So imagine if I had thought that we needed to "fatten" him up a bit :eek:
There is a class element to this for sure, it would be hard to spot a fat kid in my son's school , yet its obvious if I'm ever in a more working class area the amount obese people does stand out.

kaa

Zamboni wrote: »

In another recent thread a man was judged for being drunk and hitting his child.
Do you think that chronic overfeeding, by a parent, over a number of years leading a child to potentially heart disease, artherosclerosis and a life of mental trauma through ridicule and poor self image is any less of an issue?

but thats totally different but your are not getting what i was saying at the end.....what i ment is that your somewhere and you look around and you see an overweight person and think im not talking to them because there are fat. i think parents that pass that judgement onto their kids is wrong.