Hitting child, over-reaction

Snappy the Moose

I didn't threaten my wife, and she knows that, I made a joke at a serious time which she didn't like. I also wasn't joking about kids being fondled when I said it, it was in disbelief that she would get the guards over something so minimal compared to what other people have to endure.

He is 4 and was dragging his 8 month old sister by the legs around the room while she was being changed. Now sometimes we play together like this and roll her on the couch etc but I told him not too as it wasn't safe. I don't mind him playing with her but he didn't understand the dangers of dragging her around the same way he carries his schoolbag. I hit him on the arse, and the way I look at it it is probably better for a child to have a sore bum for a minute then a baby having a busted head. (Although I know I shouldn't have hit him).

I was drunk and maybe I wouldn't have hit him if I was sober but it still doesn't defer from the fact it was disciplinary, it wasn't as if he was watching cartoons and I started smacking him or smashing up the place for no reason. It might sound ironic but it was for safety purposes. My wife is looking at it from the context that I was abusive for no reason and is failing to acknowledge the disciplinary context of the situation.

*For the record it was one slap and it wasn't with a belt. I'm not sure how hard it was to be honest, I certainly didn't box him or knock him over or anything so it would have been on the low to medium scale.

January

You might have been joking but I sure as hell wouldn't have taken it as a joke... try to look at it from her point of view too. You've never hit your child before, you come home steaming drunk (and it didn't seem that late if your four year old and eight month old were still awake) and hit him for the first time for doing something he has seen you doing previously, even though he knows it's wrong (kids do this, my two year old tries to copy what I do with my one year old) and you smack him on the bum.

What you done was wrong, yes, you think your wife over reacted, she didn't, especially because you joked that "she'd be next".

username123

Op - my take on this as the child of an alcoholic father who wasnt adverse to a bit of aggression when he was drunk is this:

You have a serious problem with alcohol. Whether or not you want to admit it, if you drink and then lose control to the extent that you hit your child - thats a serious problem. You need to get off the booze and fast. You shouldnt even be drunk in front of your child, its unhealthy, dysfunctional and an absolute disgrace than an adult would think its ok to rock and roll home and have his child be a witness to whatever state he is in after 14 Stellas.

You need to take responsibility for your actions. You did a despicable thing, you drunkenly beat your own child (it doesnt matter if it was one smack, or a prolonged beating, you lost control). Congratulations, you now have a child who knows to stay out of Daddys way when he is drunk. Youve lost the trust of your child. Youve shown your child a monstrous side to yourself.

You didnt take your wives legitimate anger seriously. You made a totally inappropriate joke and tried to laugh it off as though you did nothing wrong. You then THREATENED your wife with violence!! (in a jokey manner - yeah right, were you still boozed up when you made this threat?).

You tried to smooth it over with your kid with a bar of chocolate. You do realise the message you sent on that is that adults dont own their actions but buy off kids when they do wrong?

All in all you have behaved in a way that I would consider to be highly dysfunctional, irresponsible, immature, and aggressive. And totally wrong - nothing you did in this situation was the right thing.

You wife has now seen you hit your child and threaten her with same for reacting. All because of booze eh?

If I were your wife (and I hope above all else that she sees this thread), I would leave you immediately, take the child with her and absolutely refuse to come back until you address your alcohol issue. I would report this incident to the Guards and get a protection order against you.

Youve done something really awful and until you take responsibility for that there is no moving on for anyone.

username123

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

I didn't threaten my wife, and she knows that, I made a joke at a serious time which she didn't like. I also wasn't joking about kids being fondled when I said it, it was in disbelief that she would get the guards over something so minimal compared to what other people have to endure.

Yes you did. You told her she would be next. You were drunk, youd just hit your kid - how could anyone be in a humorous mood with you?

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

I was drunk and maybe I wouldn't have hit him if I was sober but it still doesn't defer from the fact it was disciplinary, it wasn't as if he was watching cartoons and I started smacking him or smashing up the place for no reason.

Youve no business disciplining a child when youre drunk - 14 Stellas? Its lucky you didnt fall over the child and flatten him! Dont you know better than to stay away from children when you are drunk? What kind of a father do you think you are? It frightens children to see drunk adults.

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

My wife is looking at it from the context that I was abusive for no reason and is failing to acknowledge the disciplinary context of the situation.

There is no disciplinary context to the situation - you shouldnt be disciplining children when youre drunk. Whats gonna happen when he is 10 and you come home drunk and find him staying out late? Will you punch him in the face?

It sounds like you really dont get it. You were in the wrong, then you compounded it by threatening your wife and not taking responsibility for your actions, and buying your son off with a bar of chocolate.

Snappy the Moose

username123 wrote: »

Op - my take on this as the child of an alcoholic father who wasnt adverse to a bit of aggression when he was drunk is this:

You have a serious problem with alcohol. Whether or not you want to admit it, if you drink and then lose control to the extent that you hit your child - thats a serious problem. You need to get off the booze and fast. You shouldnt even be drunk in front of your child, its unhealthy, dysfunctional and an absolute disgrace than an adult would think its ok to rock and roll home and have his child be a witness to whatever state he is in after 14 Stellas.

You need to take responsibility for your actions. You did a despicable thing, you drunkenly beat your own child (it doesnt matter if it was one smack, or a prolonged beating, you lost control). Congratulations, you now have a child who knows to stay out of Daddys way when he is drunk. Youve lost the trust of your child. Youve shown your child a monstrous side to yourself.

You didnt take your wives legitimate anger seriously. You made a totally inappropriate joke and tried to laugh it off as though you did nothing wrong. You then THREATENED your wife with violence!! (in a jokey manner - yeah right, were you still boozed up when you made this threat?).

You tried to smooth it over with your kid with a bar of chocolate. You do realise the message you sent on that is that adults dont own their actions but buy off kids when they do wrong?

All in all you have behaved in a way that I would consider to be highly dysfunctional, irresponsible, immature, and aggressive. And totally wrong - nothing you did in this situation was the right thing.

You wife has now seen you hit your child and threaten her with same for reacting. All because of booze eh?

If I were your wife (and I hope above all else that she sees this thread), I would leave you immediately, take the child with her and absolutely refuse to come back until you address your alcohol issue. I would report this incident to the Guards and get a protection order against you.

Youve done something really awful and until you take responsibility for that there is no moving on for anyone.

Let's take a back-step here because I have already acknowledged a lot of the issues you present.

I hit my child with reasoning, it still may not be acceptable or the right thing to do, but it is not as if I was drunk, came home in an aggresive mood and hit him for no reason. If I was sober I still may have hit him at the time, he was dragging the little one around with little consideration for her and I wanted him to know the dangers of such a thing. Yes I understand he is four but I don't want the misfortune of coming home to find my little girl's head was cracked open.

To suggest I am an alcoholic is laughable. I was out for the first time since Christmas and only because a friend was going away to Australia. I came home at 7ish because I thought it was the right thing to do instead of staying out drinking all night. I never stated I was an alcoholic, I was merely seeking advice on fillers instead of alcohol at the various upcoming weddings and going-away we will be attending.

I'm sure you have some difficult memories but don't paint me as your parent/s. I lost control but maybe that could have happened if I was sober, would you be telling me I have anger issues instead of alcohol if I wasn't drunk? Does one slap constitute having anger-management issues. It wasn't done aggressively either, my goal was not to hurt him but to discipline him.

Snappy the Moose

username123 wrote: »

It sounds like you really dont get it. You were in the wrong, then you compounded it by threatening your wife and not taking responsibility for your actions, and buying your son off with a bar of chocolate.

I have already acknowledged I was wrong to hit the child.

My wife acknowledged I was joking when I said she would get a slap next, it was saying a joke at that time which upset her further. She has told me she wasn't threatened.

* You have mentioned I shouldn't be disciplining children when drunk, what should I have done? Sat there while he dragged her around like a rag doll? Even if I had sat him down or taken a different approach it would still be disciplining so I'm a bit confused what you mean there.

Laisurg

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

I didn't threaten my wife, and she knows that, I made a joke at a serious time which she didn't like. I also wasn't joking about kids being fondled when I said it, it was in disbelief that she would get the guards over something so minimal compared to what other people have to endure.

He is 4 and was dragging his 8 month old sister by the legs around the room while she was being changed. Now sometimes we play together like this and roll her on the couch etc but I told him not too as it wasn't safe. I don't mind him playing with her but he didn't understand the dangers of dragging her around the same way he carries his schoolbag. I hit him on the arse, and the way I look at it it is probably better for a child to have a sore bum for a minute then a baby having a busted head. (Although I know I shouldn't have hit him).

I was drunk and maybe I wouldn't have hit him if I was sober but it still doesn't defer from the fact it was disciplinary, it wasn't as if he was watching cartoons and I started smacking him or smashing up the place for no reason. It might sound ironic but it was for safety purposes. My wife is looking at it from the context that I was abusive for no reason and is failing to acknowledge the disciplinary context of the situation.

*For the record it was one slap and it wasn't with a belt. I'm not sure how hard it was to be honest, I certainly didn't box him or knock him over or anything so it would have been on the low to medium scale.

Ok now this is a different thing altogether, the kid shouldn't have been doing that and you should explain that to your wife, the force doesn't sound like it was excessive but i would stay off the sauce for a while anyway, just to be sure your wife doesn't get upset.

username123

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

I hit my child with reasoning, it still may not be acceptable or the right thing to do, but it is not as if I was drunk, came home in an aggresive mood and hit him for no reason. If I was sober I still may have hit him at the time, he was dragging the little one around with little consideration for her and I wanted him to know the dangers of such a thing. Yes I understand he is four but I don't want the misfortune of coming home to find my little girl's head was cracked open.

On the one hand you say you know you were wrong, now you are rationalising that you may have done it sober.

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

To suggest I am an alcoholic is laughable. I was out for the first time since Christmas and only because a friend was going away to Australia. I came home at 7ish because I thought it was the right thing to do instead of staying out drinking all night. I never stated I was an alcoholic, I was merely seeking advice on fillers instead of alcohol at the various upcoming weddings and going-away we will be attending.

Where did I suggest you are an alcoholic? I said you have issues with alcohol.

If drinking causes you to lose control to the point of hitting a child - you have a problem with it.

I know alcoholics who drink once a year. Do you even know what it means to be an alcoholic?

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

I'm sure you have some difficult memories but don't paint me as your parent/s. I lost control but maybe that could have happened if I was sober, would you be telling me I have anger issues instead of alcohol if I wasn't drunk? Does one slap constitute having anger-management issues. It wasn't done aggressively either, my goal was not to hurt him but to discipline him.

Back to rationalising that you may have done it sober while agreeing that it was the wrong thing to do. The point is - you WERE drunk. It doesnt matter that you intended to discipline him - hitting him is not discipline and you shouldnt be disciplining children drunk anyway.

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

I have already acknowledged I was wrong to hit the child.

Then why do you keep rationalising that you may have done it sober - HAVE you done it sober? On the other thread you referred to it as 'lamping the child out of it'- not good.

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

My wife acknowledged I was joking when I said she would get a slap next, it was saying a joke at that time which upset her further. She has told me she wasn't threatened.

Perhaps your wife is scared of you when you are drunk and would have agreed with anything to keep the peace? I dont know, I wasnt there.

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

* You have mentioned I shouldn't be disciplining children when drunk, what should I have done? Sat there while he dragged her around like a rag doll? Even if I had sat him down or taken a different approach it would still be disciplining so I'm a bit confused what you mean there.

Perhaps calmly asking your wife to discipline the child? Perhaps gently directing the child away in another direction? Perhaps removing the toddler from the situation? Perhaps saying 'Stop dragging your sibling around right now'?

Of course the real answer to that question by the way, comes from something I said earlier - you shouldnt be drunk around children - that way you dont have moral dilemmas about disciplining them when youre drunk.

It seems like you are not willing to acknowledge or take responsibilities for any of this - rationalising your behaviour, moral dilemmas about disciplining children when drunk etc... If you cant see the situation for what it is then I am sorry for you, and your wife and children.

Ayla

OP - have you for one moment considered *why* your wife felt so threatened or concerned that she threatened to call the guardi & then actually left? Is it possible that she has a history of having to deal with abuse? Maybe someone in her childhood came home from the pub & got out of control, or maybe she was in a previously abusive relationship. It is possible that this could be the root cause & then when you came home in whatever condition & (although maybe for justifiable reasons, but all the same) you suddenly smacked your kid...maybe it triggered horrible memories of a situation she didn't want to be in again.

And when your son was dragging the baby around, why were you the one there to disipline him? Where was your wife? Surely if you started seeing red you should have had the cop on to call her & step away before hitting your child.

How Strange

Op, hitting or slapping a child is wrong. There are no justifications or times when it's acceptable. Hitting a child means you've lost control of the situation and resort to physicality to get your point across.

A child of 4 is perfectly capable of understanding why dragging an 8 month old baby by the legs is wrong if it's explained to him/her. Your child learned nothing except daddy hits him and then buys his chocolate.

As for being drunk around children, well it really shows our disfunctional relationship with alcohol as a nation that you don't think it's inappropriate to drink that much and then go home to young children in the evening time when chances are they're acting up because they're tired and it's bedtime.

I'm actually going to mention this thread to my husband tonight so we're on the same page for the future. We agreed already we won't slap but I want him to know that I'd find it disgusting if he was that drunk in front of our child/ren and if he raised his hand to them while drunk I'd lose all repect for him and consider leaving for the welfare of the child/ren.

I really hope you've learned a lesson from all this because that's the only possible positive to come out of it.

Snappy the Moose

username123 wrote: »

Perhaps calmly asking your wife to discipline the child? Perhaps gently directing the child away in another direction? Perhaps removing the toddler from the situation? Perhaps saying 'Stop dragging your sibling around right now'?

^ All the above is disciplining the child though. You said I shouldn't discipline when drunk so I should have sat there or got my wife while the 8 month olds head was hopping off the floor. If you read my posts you would see I told him not to as it was dangerous but it didn't work.


It was wrong to hit him, if I did it sober it would have been wrong aswell! I was merely pointing out that you saying "you have a serious problem with alcohol" may not be the case. People can lose their temper without having some form of issue or problem. Are you aware of this?

What I did was wrong but calling the guards is an over-reaction.

Ayla

Ok, yes, it's disciplining...as parents that's our job. But disciplining by violence (no matter how "insignificant") does not teach the child anything. Do you think the next time your son goes to do the same thing he'll think "no, i shouldn't do that b/c it's the wrong thing to do," or will he think "no, i won't do it b/c my dad will thump me." Which would you rather your child think?

January

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

^ All the above is disciplining the child though. You said I shouldn't discipline when drunk so I should have sat there or got my wife while the 8 month olds head was hopping off the floor. If you read my posts you would see I told him not to as it was dangerous but it didn't work.


It was wrong to hit him, if I did it sober it would have been wrong aswell! I was merely pointing out that you saying "you have a serious problem with alcohol" may not be the case. People can lose their temper without having some form of issue or problem. Are you aware of this?

What I did was wrong but calling the guards is an over-reaction.

To you, not to your wife.

Orion

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

What I did was wrong but calling the guards is an over-reaction.

If she felt threatened then it's not an over-reaction in the slightest. Until you realise and accept this you're going to get nowhere.

MagicMarker

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

^ All the above is disciplining the child though. You said I shouldn't discipline when drunk so I should have sat there or got my wife while the 8 month olds head was hopping off the floor. If you read my posts you would see I told him not to as it was dangerous but it didn't work.

Were you shackled to a radiator at this point in time? Why not just take the baby off him?

Snappy the Moose

Orion wrote: »

If she felt threatened then it's not an over-reaction in the slightest. Until you realise and accept this you're going to get nowhere.

I have already said that she told me she didn't feel threatened, it was making the joke (which she acknowledges it was) at that time which upset her further.

These are her words aswell.

CrazyRabbit

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

It did harm you. It made you think that it is normal and acceptable to physically assault another smaller/weaker person because they've done something you don't like.

In the wise words of the rapper, Asher Roth.
"Disciplining to prevent things when they're older."

It's not physical assault to give your kid a slap if he does something wrong.. You're mistaking random beatings of children with a slap or wooden spoon when they step out of line badly.
I've never been in a fight in my life so where's your logic that I think it's fine to physically assault anyone?

GeorgeBailey

January wrote: »

To you, not to your wife.

Taking the OPs account of events as what actually transpired (and we don't have any choice really) then I would agree with the OP that his wife over-reacted. If it was a small to medium slap on the backside then it's regrettable but also understandable given what the child was doing. There's a lot of judgemental, whiter than white attitudes on boards.

username123

username123 wrote: »

Perhaps calmly asking your wife to discipline the child? Perhaps gently directing the child away in another direction? Perhaps removing the toddler from the situation? Perhaps saying 'Stop dragging your sibling around right now'?

None of that is disciplining a child - is it?
Surely the definition of disciplining a child is explaining to them what they have done wrong and punishing them in a calm non confrontational manner so that they understand what they are being punished for?

Any of the above are just immediate steps that could have been taken to remove the baby from a dangerous situation.

Have you hit your children sober? You seem intent on making it clear that it would be wrong sober or drunk? If you have not done it sober then its fair to extrapolate that when drunk you lose control to the point of hitting a child and that indicates a problem with alcohol - not being able to control yourself. I can only go on what youve posted. It would still be wrong sober, but the point is - you WERE drunk.

Its pretty disgusting behaviour and your wife did not overreact to say she was going to go to the guards and unless you can accept that then you are just a bully who believes he is in the right no matter how many people tell him he is in the wrong. Its called denial. Refusing to accept the valid point of view. Its delusional and pretty common among people who believe they dont have an issue with booze when they do.

Its interesting that you concealed the fact you were drunk in your original posts - were you aware that alcoholics often conceal same to manipulate people and get the reactions they want?

fatmammycat

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Taking the OPs account of events as what actually transpired (and we don't have any choice really) then I would agree with the OP that his wife over-reacted. If it was a small to medium slap on the backside then it's regrettable but also understandable given what the child was doing. There's a lot of judgemental, whiter than white attitudes on boards.

He said he 'backhanded' his son, very different to a slap on the backside, he did this angry and drunk and then threatened his wife in a 'joking' manner when she got upset. None of this is a whiter that white response. He's on here looking for people to agree with him that SHE over-reacted when it is HE who was in the wrong and clearly needs to rein in his drinking.

username123

Just to be clear - this is what was posted in the other thread:

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

Long story short I came home langers yesterday and backhanded the youngfella so time for me to stay off the juice now imo. Might be irrelevant but it was after 14 Stella.

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

I don't have an addiction it just isn't healthy lamping kids if you know what I mean. Maybe I will try the soft drinks thanks.

Backhanded the youngfella, lamping kids, 14 Stella - non of this is healthy, the way its described, the act itself, so much alcohol and then to come home and let the kids see you like this, and defence of the behaviour and making out the wives reaction is wrong.

username123... Either stop arguing with yourself or stop multi-accounting a thread.

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3918/screenshotic.png

seamus

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

I was drunk

Everything else is invalid. You cannot parent effectively when ossified. If you were drunk, you should have left the parenting to your wife.

You cannot justify what you did on the basis of the child's behaviour because you were not in proper control at the time. You'd drunk 14 pints of stella before 7 o'clock in the evening, I'd be surprised if you were even capable of discerning a smack on the bottom from a "nice little rasp".

GeorgeBailey

fatmammycat wrote: »

He said he 'backhanded' his son, very different to a slap on the backside,

I have a 4 year old son. I've never hit him and never will. But if he did something like what the op's son did and my wife flipped (unlikely) in the way the op did I wouldn't be happy but I'd understand why she did it as I'd be feeling quite angry myself (with the child).

fatmammycat wrote: »

he did this angry and drunk and then threatened his wife in a 'joking' manner when she got upset.

And as he has said she didn't feel threatened by this she just didn't think it was appropriate to joke given she was upset.

fatmammycat wrote: »

He's on here looking for people to agree with him that SHE over-reacted when it is HE who was in the wrong and clearly needs to rein in his drinking.

He's already said he regretted what he did and also that his reaction could easily have been the same if he hadn't been drinking. As for reining in his drinking like he said it's the first time he was drinking since Christmas.

fatmammycat

I feel very sorry for any child that needs to wonder what way a parent is going to return from the pub, I really do.

username123

Deleted User wrote: »

username123... Either stop arguing with yourself or stop multi-accounting a thread.

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3918/screenshotic.png

Didnt realise you were a moderator? Oh, youre not. If you have an issue with a post of mine you know where the report post button is.

January

Deleted User wrote: »

username123... Either stop arguing with yourself or stop multi-accounting a thread.

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3918/screenshotic.png

If you have a problem with a post or poster please report the post.

careca11

the OP was right ,
when kids cross the line ...a smack on the hand or the behind is the right way to go (thats my opinion)
and if my son ever steps over the line he will be duly notified, nothing too hard , but just hard enough to remind them that there are certina things they cannot be doing,

there is no point telling off a child , because the worst word you can say to a child is "DON'T"


all this no smacking etc ................no wonder kids run a muck these days

at school ....who's in charge ( I can tell you it ain't the teachers thats for sure)

yosemite_sam

Nothing wrong with giving your kid a clip if they act up, my kids are impeccably behaved because they know not to step over the line. I'd be more worried about your wife calling the Garda on you for trying to put some manners on your kid, sounds like she did not get straightened out when she was younger.

fatmammycat

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

I have a 4 year old son. I've never hit him and never will. But if he did something like what the op's son did and my wife flipped (unlikely) in the way the op did I wouldn't be happy but I'd understand why she did it as I'd be feeling quite angry myself (with the child).


And as he has said she didn't feel threatened by this she just didn't think it was appropriate to joke given she was upset.


He's already said he regretted what he did and also that his reaction could easily have been the same if he hadn't been drinking. As for reining in his drinking like he said it's the first time he was drinking since Christmas.

So WHAT is it's the first time since Christmas? Seriously? 14 Stellas after a lay off of that period, how the hell could he be anything but a boorish drunk.
You're making excuses from him and his behaviour, exactly what he wants, well done.