RTE Two HD on Sky [Merged]

PogMoThoin

johnmryan wrote: »

Because we enjoy sky we use their service, nobody is forcing us to use it. I think we are still within our right to expect sky to add rte HD to their basic plan as its an Irish service that the public expect and deserve to have. Most people who have a sky box do not also want another box full of wires on there tv setup. If RTE are in bed with sky and want us to pay that's fine nothing we can do about it, it's free on another service, a typical Irish set up really. However your annoyance an someone asking this question is not deserved PogMoThoin.

Well if you enjoy Sky and don't mind paying for it what's the problem?

Sky did get the analogue service for free, I'm not sure about RTE 2 HD. I don't see how you can blame RTE for anything, they're just making it available to a bigger audience like they've always done. Sky are the crafty ones here.

superleedsdub

Does anybody know what time today that RTE2 HD is arriving on the EPG?

Have just checked and it`s not there yet (Have the HD package and rebooted the box).

adox

galtee boy wrote: »

New channels normally added to the EPG around mid morning, approx 10.30 to 11.30, so not long to wait now and we will find out, is it HD sub or not.

Reading the RTE press release it looks certain to be part of the Sky HD pack only, i.e. not available on Sky HD boxes without paying an extra €15 a month for the HD sub.

dubmick

superleedsdub wrote: »

Have just checked and it`s not there yet (Have the HD package and rebooted the box).

same here

Johnboy1951

I think the whole setup with Sky is wrong.
All the RTÉ channels should be available from Sky as FTV ... which would mean that an expired Irish Sky card would decrypt the RTÉ channels.

I fail to understand why RTÉ has allowed the situation to arise.

If the channels are free to view on RTÉ/RTNL then is it not reasonable that they should be the same on all other carriers?

zg3409

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I think the whole setup with Sky is wrong.
All the RTÉ channels should be available from Sky as FTV ... which would mean that an expired Irish Sky card would decrypt the RTÉ channels.

If you don't pay UPC they disconnect ALL your channels.

PogMoThoin

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I think the whole setup with Sky is wrong.
All the RTÉ channels should be available from Sky as FTV ... which would mean that an expired Irish Sky card would decrypt the RTÉ channels.

I fail to understand why RTÉ has allowed the situation to arise.

If the channels are free to view on RTÉ/RTNL then is it not reasonable that they should be the same on all other carriers?

RTE pay for American TV shows for an audience of ~4.5million. They'd need to pay for an audience of 100million+ if they went FTA. Also, its not just this cost, the BBC and ITV pay for their own carriage on the satellites so they can be FTA. RTE cannot afford this based on the small advertising revenue they generate plus the TV licence.

Edit: Actually they are FTA (Saorsat), just not on these satellites

Kurn

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Well if you enjoy Sky and don't mind paying for it what's the problem?

Sky did get the analogue service for free, I'm not sure about RTE 2 HD. I don't see how you can blame RTE for anything, they're just making it available to a bigger audience like they've always done. Sky are the crafty ones here.

The problem is we should not have to pay for HD to watch RTE 2 HD on SKY, which, as you are following this thread, I am sure you are already aware that this is what is being discussed?

PogMoThoin

johnmryan wrote: »

The problem is we should not have to pay for HD to watch RTE 2 HD on SKY

Agreed, pretty nasty work by Sky, typical of them though.

JDxtra

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Agreed, pretty nasty work by Sky, typical of them though.

But maybe without Sky there would be no RTE Two HD at all on Sky because RTE can't afford it alone? Look at ITV 2/3/4 HD - they only exist because Sky are subsidising them.

Johnboy1951

PogMoThoin wrote: »

RTE pay for American TV shows for an audience of ~4.5million. They'd need to pay for an audience of 100million+ if they went FTA. Also, its not just this cost, the BBC and ITV pay for their own carriage on the satellites so they can be FTA. RTE cannot afford this based on the small advertising revenue they generate plus the TV licence.

Edit: Actually they are FTA (Saorsat), just not on these satellites

I think you misunderstood what I meant .......

The RTÉ channels are FTA for the Irish audience.
They are presently being carried, as I understand it, on other platforms, targeted at the same audience.
To receive the RTÉ channels via Sky, one needs an Irish Sky card.
That limits the audience to the target.

I suggested that
"All the RTÉ channels should be available from Sky as FTV "

which would mean an Irish Sky card would still be required to receive the channels.
The difference would be that Sky would not be charging customers to receive the Irish 'free' channels, but reception would still be limited to those with an Irish Sky card, thus complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement.

So, what I meant was that Sky would still pay for carriage etc if they wanted the RTÉ channels, but they should have to make them available as FTV, where an expired Irish Sky card would continue to decrypt them, not as present where once you stop paying the Sky subscription, the RTE channels disappear.

Essentially it is the terms under which 'must offer/must carry' is agreed.

PogMoThoin

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I think you misunderstood what I meant .......

The RTÉ channels are FTA for the Irish audience.
They are presently being carried, as I understand it, on other platforms, targeted at the same audience.
To receive the RTÉ channels via Sky, one needs an Irish Sky card.
That limits the audience to the target.

I suggested that
"All the RTÉ channels should be available from Sky as FTV "

which would mean an Irish Sky card would still be required to receive the channels.
The difference would be that Sky would not be charging customers to receive the Irish 'free' channels, but reception would still be limited to those with an Irish Sky card, thus complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement.

So, what I meant was that Sky would still pay for carriage etc if they wanted the RTÉ channels, but they should have to make them available as FTV, where an expired Irish Sky card would continue to decrypt them, not as present where once you stop paying the Sky subscription, the RTE channels disappear.

Essentially it is the terms under which 'must offer/must carry' is agreed.

That's highly unlikely, Sky being the shower that they are. Sky pay for carriage so they can make money from it....... the very reason why this HD channel is HD pack only. FTV cards are for channels that cover their own carriage and pay for a larger audience.

It's bad enough that Sky don't pay a single cent tax or VAT here on this money, but that's for another thread.

adox

Has it shown up on anyones EPG YET?

Ranicand

adox wrote: »

Has it shown up on anyones EPG YET?

No.

Johnboy1951

PogMoThoin wrote: »

That's highly unlikely, Sky being the shower that they are. Sky pay for carriage so they can make money from it....... the very reason why this HD channel is HD pack only. FTV cards are for channels that cover their own carriage and pay for a larger audience.

It's bad enough that Sky don't pay a single cent tax or VAT here on this money, but that's for another thread.

Of course Sky will do what they can to ensure they get payment.

That is not the point though ....... the point is that RTÉ can dictate the terms under which its channels can be rebroadcast, and I fail to understand why they allow/allowed the present situation to exist.

It is within their power (or should be) to determine the conditions under which their channels are rebroadcast.

Should RTÉ declare the channels must be FTV, what would Sky do? ....... the decision would be up to them ..... either take the channels as offered or don't carry the Irish channels.

IMO, RTÉ are in a position to do this ..... not least because RTÉ already broadcast the channels to the same target audience as FTA.

I feel RTÉ are letting down the Irish people by not doing so.

[Of course there may be others involved in the decision and 'rules' etc ..... but even so RTÉ are in a position to lobby for such a change if that is necessary]

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Should RTÉ declare the channels must be FTV, what would Sky do? ....... the decision would be up to them ..... either take the channels as offered or don't carry the Irish channels.

And while the RTE channels are off Sky (but TV3 would probably stay on), RTE have a huge drop in advertising revenue. People can still watch RTE by getting an aerial, but while RTE are not on the Sky EPG they will lose loads of viewers.

BBC and ITV have to pay to be on the Sky EPG, there is no way they are going to provide a FTV service for RTE, on RTEs terms for nothing.

STB

MarkK wrote: »

Sky will have to continue with RTE 2 SD anyway as loads of subscribers don't have HD boxes.

Thank feck somebody has grasped the issue.

RTE the broadcaster will only broadcast one RTE2 station (after October 2012) and that is a HD only service.

There are people here who think Sky are doing people favours by re-encoding A HD only station in SD. The reason Sky are doing it is to save themselves quite a costly hardware rollout to their paying customers ie replacing SD boxes with boxes that can receive the station.

Sky have ignored the terms of the must carry rule. They specifically requested the RTE2HD station. They are meant to provide said HD service unaltered without additional costs to their subscribers. Its the law.

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I suggested that
"All the RTÉ channels should be available from Sky as FTV "

which would mean an Irish Sky card would still be required to receive the channels.
The difference would be that Sky would not be charging customers to receive the Irish 'free' channels, but reception would still be limited to those with an Irish Sky card, thus complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement.

It wouldn't be "complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement" as Irish Sky cards could be passed on to friends and relatives abroad or even sold on illegally.

STB

MarkK wrote: »

And while the RTE channels are off Sky (but TV3 would probably stay on), RTE have a huge drop in advertising revenue. People can still watch RTE by getting an aerial, but while RTE are not on the Sky EPG they will lose loads of viewers.

BBC and ITV have to pay to be on the Sky EPG, there is no way they are going to provide a FTV service for RTE, on RTEs terms for nothing.

It is nothing to do with RTE requesting anything. Sky requested the HD station, now they must carry it without any additional costs to their Irish subscribers.

RTE did not draft the legislation. DCENR did. Now its somebodies job to enforce Section 77 of the Broadcasting Act. No doubt the BAI will be swamped with complaints.

Most important is that subscribers to Sky bring it to Sky's attention that they are breaking the terms of the must carry rule.

MarkK

STB wrote: »

It is nothing to do with RTE requesting anything. Sky requested the HD station, now they must carry it without any additional costs to their Irish subscribers.

I wasn't talking about 'requesting' anything or RTE 2 HD, I was replying to the poster I quoted who was suggesting RTE should try to force Sky to provide a FTV scheme for the RTE channels for free.

Kensington

STB wrote: »

Thank feck somebody has grasped the issue.

RTE the broadcaster will only broadcast one RTE2 station (after October 2012) and that is a HD only service.

There are people here who think Sky are doing people favours by re-encoding A HD only station in SD. The reason Sky are doing it is to save themselves quite a costly hardware rollout to their paying customers ie replacing SD boxes with boxes that can receive the station.

Sky have ignored the terms of the must carry rule. They specifically requested the RTE2HD station. They are meant to provide said HD service unaltered without additional costs to their subscribers. Its the law.

They're not "re-encoding" RTÉ TWO HD, they're simply encoding the RTÉ TWO (SD) feed presented to them (well, actually, encoding and uplinking is done on-site in Donnybrook so technically it is RTÉ or more specifically RTÉNL themselves who do it).

If you're to take your argument literally, then by encoding a raw, lossless SDI feed into lossy MPEG-2 4:2:0 video with MP2 audio, they're altering it.

All that will be happening is RTÉ TWO (SD) is driven from the same desk, through the same router, with the same content, as RTÉ TWO "HD" - but at a lower resolution. That's all.

I think you're making your arguments lose all credibility suggesting sky replace everyone's set-top box with a HD one on the off-chance they might want RTÉ TWO HD. You don't get BBC One HD in the UK if you don't have a Sky HD capable set-top box, RTÉ TWO HD is no different (of course, the reason why you don't get RTÉ TWO HD on Sky without a Sky HD subscription is a totally different argument altogether).

Again, if the current agreement between RTÉ and Sky wasn't in place (RTÉ on sky/DSAT but only as part of a pay-TV package), RTÉ simply wouldn't be on sky *at all*.
You can say that sky are doing it purely to attract subscribers (quite correct) but it suits RTÉ just as much in fulfilling their obligations to maximise commercial revenue (more potential viewers = bigger advertising audience = higher advertising rates).

Kensington

MarkK wrote: »

I wasn't talking about 'requesting' anything or RTE 2 HD, I was replying to the poster I quoted who was suggesting RTE should try to force Sky to provide a FTV scheme for the RTE channels for free.

Sky would quite happily provide a FTV scheme for RTÉ.

It wouldn't be free though.

STB

Kensington wrote: »

They're not "re-encoding" RTÉ TWO HD, they're simply encoding the RTÉ TWO (SD) feed presented to them (well, actually, encoding and uplinking is done on-site in Donnybrook so technically it is RTÉ or more specifically RTÉNL themselves who do it).

If you're to take your argument literally, then by encoding a raw, lossless SDI feed into lossy MPEG-2 4:2:0 video with MP2 audio, they're altering it.

Dont mix up feeds and services.

RTE only have to provide feeds for the services it broadcasts.

After 24 October 2012, RTE wont be broadcasting a standard definition service of RTE2. It will be a HD only service. There will be no simulcast. It is a HD only branded station that required and received ministerial consent in February 2011.

Kensington wrote: »

I think you're making your arguments lose all credibility suggesting sky replace everyone's set-top box with a HD one on the off-chance they might want RTÉ TWO HD.

No.

That is Skys problem. Do not reqest a specific station under the must offer rule if you are not in a position to carry it under the terms of the must carry rule.

Kensington wrote: »

You don't get BBC One HD in the UK if you don't have a Sky HD capable set-top box, RTÉ TWO HD is no different (of course, the reason why you don't get RTÉ TWO HD on Sky without a Sky HD subscription is a totally different argument altogether).

It is not an issue in the UK as the "broadcaster" BBC continue to "broadcast" in both SD and HD. Regardless of that, the terms of how stations must be offered in Ireland is underpinned by Irish legislation not British legislation.

Kensington wrote: »

Again, if the current agreement between RTÉ and Sky wasn't in place (RTÉ on sky/DSAT but only as part of a pay-TV package), RTÉ simply wouldn't be on sky *at all*.
You can say that sky are doing it purely to attract subscribers (quite correct) but it suits RTÉ just as much in fulfilling their obligations to maximise commercial revenue (more potential viewers = bigger advertising audience = higher advertising rates).

RTE only provide the station. And it is clear that Sky have chosen to ignore the legislation and Irish consumers.

The various broadcasting regulators may not see it that way of course.

Johnboy1951

MarkK wrote: »

It wouldn't be "complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement" as Irish Sky cards could be passed on to friends and relatives abroad or even sold on illegally.

As they can presently ..... what's different?

Johnboy1951

MarkK wrote: »

And while the RTE channels are off Sky (but TV3 would probably stay on), RTE have a huge drop in advertising revenue. People can still watch RTE by getting an aerial, but while RTE are not on the Sky EPG they will lose loads of viewers.

There is an assumption that Sky would drop the RTÉ channels .... from audience viewing figures that have been quoted on Boards, Sky would lose a large percentage of their Irish subscribers if they refused to carry those channels.

BBC and ITV have to pay to be on the Sky EPG, there is no way they are going to provide a FTV service for RTE, on RTEs terms for nothing.

They are already paying the same costs to carry the Irish channels.
There would be no change in cost.

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

As they can presently ..... what's different?

You have to pay a hefty subscription at the moment.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

There is an assumption that Sky would drop the RTÉ channels .... from audience viewing figures that have been quoted on Boards, Sky would lose a large percentage of their Irish subscribers if they refused to carry those channels.

What percentage? Many might where cable is available, plenty would not.
It would still hurt RTE more than Sky.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

They are already paying the same costs to carry the Irish channels.
There would be no change in cost.

There would be a cost.
1. When the FTV cards expire the need to be replaced.
2. Lots of Sky customers would drop their subscription if their Sky box gave them RTE, BBC and ITV for free, possibly more than who would leave if they dropped RTE.

Kensington

STB wrote: »

Dont mix up feeds and services.

RTE only have to provide feeds for the services it broadcasts.

After 24 October 2012, RTE wont be broadcasting a standard definition service of RTE2. It will be a HD only service. There will be no simulcast. It is a HD only branded station that required and received ministerial consent in February 2011.

RTÉ will be providing the SD feed - not just for Sky, but UPC and the online/player team. RTÉ. Not Sky.
There will be a simulcast by virtue of the fact they are providing this feed.

Even if RTÉ TWO HD wasn't going on sky, the feed would still be there (as it is as we speak) both pre- and post- October switchover.

STB wrote: »

No.

That is Skys problem. Do not reqest a specific station under the must offer rule if you are not in a position to carry it under the terms of the must carry rule.

And what are these must carry rules?
All I see is you the same section of the broadcasting act which mentions nothing about differentiating between SD resolution and HD resolution.

And if your bugging point is the big "RTÉ TWO HD" in the top right corner of the current HD version, what if RTÉ decide to stop refering to "RTÉ TWO HD" and simply revert to "RTÉ TWO" post-switchover and the only thing that differentiates, is the end resolution you see on your TV screen? Will you still be objecting?

STB wrote: »

It is not an issue in the UK as the "broadcaster" BBC continue to "broadcast" in both SD and HD. Regardless of that, the terms of how stations must be offered in Ireland is underpinned by Irish legislation not British legislation.

Yet the legislation you keep quoting makes no reference to HD or SD nor does it make any moves to differentiate the two in any way!

STB wrote: »

RTE only provide the station. And it is clear that Sky have chosen to ignore the legislation and Irish consumers.

The various broadcasting regulators may not see it that way of course.

And RTÉ are providing the station - not sky - RTÉ - in Standard Definition format
Not just to sky either but also to RTÉ.ie/live, RTÉ player, UPC, aertv etc.etc.

basill

Eh, RTE is not FTA, BBC and ITV both are

You miss the point.

TV licence man turns up at my house and I say I don't need to pay cos I have Sky and no terrestrial aerial to pick up free to air or an Irish digi box to get Soarview. He says its the law and I get fined or get my day in court if I don't cough up. So I play the good citizen and pay up even though we hardly watch the bleedin channels, bar a bit of Sport although that is getting thin on the ground.

The point is that if you don't have Sky then you will get RTE in HD format in return for your licence fee as you will have access to it in native HD format through your HD TVs tuner or a setbox box of some sort.

But if you do have Sky like a hell of us do, have a FULL HD tv, a HD Amstrad Sky box BUT you don't want to ripped off to pay Sky 15 a month extra then you also get to miss out on RTE HD.

As other posters have said there are laws concerning this which both players in this deal are choosing to ignore. No doubt Sky are quite happy hoping that the take up rate on HD packages will increase.

SalteeDog

As a licence payer you are absolutely entitled to get RTE 2 HD also. You just need a Saorview TV or box and a suitable aerial. Being a Sky subscriber does not prevent you getting Saorview whatsoever.

Johnboy1951

Originally Posted by MarkK
It wouldn't be "complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement" as Irish Sky cards could be passed on to friends and relatives abroad or even sold on illegally.

Originally Posted by Johnboy1951
As they can presently ..... what's different?

MarkK wrote: »

You have to pay a hefty subscription at the moment.

I do not see how that has an impact on the "complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement" ..... whether the audience has to pay or not to receive the content is not pertinent to compliance, as far as I can see.

Johnboy1951

Originally Posted by Johnboy1951
They are already paying the same costs to carry the Irish channels.
There would be no change in cost.

MarkK wrote:

There would be a cost.
1. When the FTV cards expire the need to be replaced.
2. Lots of Sky customers would drop their subscription if their Sky box gave them RTE, BBC and ITV for free, possibly more than who would leave if they dropped RTE

There would be no additional cost to carry the channels.

1. They already issue FTV cards through Setanta under present legislation. No change there.

2. Any affect it might have on Sky's business model is not of concern. That is their concern.

As has already been pointed out on Boards, Sky contribute little to the Irish economy, so should I care if they lose out a bit?
It is my licence fee that contributes to the Irish TV channels. They are FTA, and all other carriers re-broadcasting those channels should be required to do so on the same or similar basis.
If I have suitable equipment I should be able to receive the channels from any service carrying the channels ... without cost!

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I do not see how that has an impact on the "complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement" ..... whether the audience has to pay or not to receive the content is not pertinent to compliance, as far as I can see.

The pertinent point is a lot more people would avail of a FTV service, than a subscription service, which is expensive and requires a direct debit to be maintained from an Irish address/account.

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

There would be no additional cost to carry the channels.

1. They already issue FTV cards through Setanta under present legislation. No change there.

Setanta pay for that, not Sky.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

2. Any affect it might have on Sky's business model is not of concern. That is their concern.

So the additional cost to Sky from cancelled subscriptions can be dismissed as "not relevant" because you don't care about it?

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

As has already been pointed out on Boards, Sky contribute little to the Irish economy, so should I care if they lose out a bit?

Exactly, anyone who doesn't like it should complain to Sky and cancel their subscription if not satisfied with the response.

Johnboy1951

MarkK wrote: »

The pertinent point is a lot more people would avail of a FTV service, than a subscription service, which is expensive and requires a direct debit to be maintained from an Irish address/account.

So what?
That does not impinge on RTÉ's obligations regarding the audience they are targeting!

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So what?
That does not impinge on RTÉ's obligations regarding the audience they are targeting!

Having a lot more viewers outside Ireland is hardly "complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement" is it?

Johnboy1951

MarkK wrote: »

Having a lot more viewers outside Ireland is hardly "complying with RTÉ's limited audience requirement" is it?

You do not appear to understand the difference between RTÉ being actively engaged in targeting outside their limited audience, and some people outside the target audience making special arrangements to contravene the terms under which RTÉ allow their service to be viewed.

Kurn

debate aside, any sign of it on the EPG yet?

DigiDec

No, its off at the moment, lot of break up and sound crackling, looks to be still in test phase, don't think we'll be seeing it today.

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You do not appear to understand the difference between RTÉ being actively engaged in targeting outside their limited audience, and some people outside the target audience making special arrangements to contravene the terms under which RTÉ allow their service to be viewed.

You do not appear to understand that having a FTV card isn't really a "special arrangement".
UK FTV Sky cards are widely available such as on eBay the same would happen with Irish cards if they existed.

JDxtra

Picture is blank now on RTE Two HD via other channels. The label still hasn't been corrected. I can't see it launching today to be honest.

watty

You have to have a TV licence if you have something that potentially could receive TV. It doesn't "entitle" you to get RTE. You need one because you have a receiver in the house.

It doesn't matter if you only watch Swiss TV (not even in EU), or only watch DVDs or game console. The Licence isn't for "watching RTE". It's for having a TV receiver on the premises. Even if it belongs to the Landlord or your mate down the road and has no aerial or dish you are liable for a TV licence, just because you are living there.

If there are six students then one of them can take out the TV licence. If he moves he can get the licence changed to his new address because it's in his name and the remaining 5 need a new licence. It may not make sense, but it's the law.

brian_bugle

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/27191-rt-two-hd-to-launch-today

Will have a look when I get home later, see if it's active

Johnboy1951

MarkK wrote: »

You do not appear to understand that having a FTV card isn't really a "special arrangement".
UK FTV Sky cards are widely available such as on eBay the same would happen with Irish cards if they existed.

Yes I see your point, but would be of the opinion that a card to decrypt the channels, is a special arrangement.

With the cards only issued to valid Irish addresses, there would not be much scope for extending the target audience, even if the cards were to be sent to people in the UK or elsewhere.

I don't see that RTÉ would be in any trouble from such an arrangement.

Of course Sky might be ...... because as you said people might begin to realise they do not get value for money from their Sky sub, and stop their subscription. But that is a commercial concern for a foreign corporation not something the Irish Broadcasting Authority or RTÉ should be worried about.

LarMan

No sign of it as yet on my HD box

LarMan

LarMan wrote: »

No sign of it as yet on my HD box

Same here

Keithl2156

It's 6:46pm no sign of it yet anyone know what time it is live on air in hd ?

kbell

Checked it thru other channels as i dont have a HD sub, and I'm getting the call to upgrade to receive this HD channel message.

p.oconnor

Maybe the delay is RTE telling sky to make the channel available to all customers with HD boxes ... they may have been reading us ... wishful thinking??

doney84

JDxtra wrote: »

Picture is blank now on RTE Two HD via other channels. The label still hasn't been corrected. I can't see it launching today to be honest.

Picture back now via "other channels"

p.oconnor

p.oconnor wrote: »

Maybe the delay is RTE telling sky to make the channel available to all customers with HD boxes ... they may have been reading us ... wishful thinking??

Wishful indeed lol...think rte want to use rte 2 hd as a bargining tool to make saorview attractive. People will go for the cheap option such as getting a saorview box id say if its on the hd pack.