real ideas to lift the economy

jakdelad

ok
the maddest idea for lifting the country out of the sh1te
and generating millions in revenue for the country

something so wild, it just might work, something the celeb economists overlooked.
but please explain why it will work

its wednesday we need a lift
mods please join in

RichardAnd

I don't believe there is any idea out there that will create thousands of jobs and generate billions in anything that could be called the near future.

Prakari

The solutions are simple given that the problem is simple.

Problem: Debt saturation. Global economic growth is stunted by the level of debt. Too much of economic activity is going towards debt service and thus the economic growth produced by new loans is becoming less and less. There’s also the case that the finite resources of the real economy can no longer keep pace with the exponential growth of debt in the virtual economy.

Solution: Reduce debt relative to money. Two obvious means-

1. Large scale default
2. Debt-free money. The ability to produce money without creating a corresponding unit of debt.

Paying off debt will not work as the destruction of a unit of debt by loan repayment is accompanied by the destruction of a unit of money (except the part that goes to interest).

pog it

How about bringing back the sugar industry? It would have to be better for workers than the free workers for employers ("jobs") initiative.

MagicMarker

What ever happened with that campaign the government ran where the person with the best idea for saving money won 250k or something like that?

RichardAnd

MagicMarker wrote: »

What ever happened with that campaign the government ran where the person with the best idea for saving money won 250k or something like that?

Because, perhaps, the best idea offered was to keep the 250k and not waste it on a pointless competition?

pog it

I did have an idea to plant cork trees given all the forestry resources (majorally uptapped) we have but corks on wine bottles are becoming less and less used (though it's still used for flooring, etc.)

The major downside to the plan was that it takes 40 years or so before you have the first harvest.....

There was a great idea (this one wasn't mine) on that competition that Mr McAleese got going, where there would be a coastal cycling route created to add to tourism potential. Again would be a huge cost, but could have been tried out in one province to see how it went.

theg81der

Open our borders while making sure people who come can`t access welfare?

Allowing graduates to return to college for skilled based courses eg computing while getting the dole and defering their fees till they get work, well we`re paying dole anyway and we`re paying lecturers and lets say we let them into 2nd year since at that stage a lot of people will have dropped out of courses and there is vacant places.

Mass skills assessment of the unemployed. Maybe provide schemes for unemployed people who have the skills to pass them on with some added benefits.

I don`t think there is any International get rich quick scheme we can buy into its a longterm problem with a longterm silution.

paddy0090

pog it wrote: »

How about bringing back the sugar industry? It would have to be better for workers than the free workers for employers ("jobs") initiative.

We flogged the sugar industry to some property developers and the Germans are liable to protect what's left of theirs so that's not gonna happen. Agree about the state subsidising employers to give people free work.

I think Tourism offers the best short term plan because of all the excess output capacity(empty hotels and easily trained labour). It's not great but it's a start. We're probably looking in the wrong place for customers though. The exchange between the pound and euro offers little to British holidaymakers and the Yanks despite a pretty substantial spend on that side by us are all doing staycation or trying to keep spending down. What we really need is a chinese president with Irish parents. McHu Jintao could really help if they had proper holidays!

Or better yet use the Ghost estates as english training camps for that English training course(can't think of it's name). Students can immerse themselves in an English speaking country and try Guinness! I think this is a good idea

Tora Bora

Cut the dole by five percent pet month. Soon see a lot if lads become available for work. You will see wages fall, due to market force of supply and demand.
Falling wage costs = greater competitiveness = increasing export volume = more employment = virtuous circle. Economy sorted.

pog it

Not sure how things are now but the English language schools in Dublin city centre made a bomb during the good years Paddy, they're probably ticking over now unless they made some malinvestments! Could be a good idea for Galway city although Dublin is probably the target for a lot of foreign students on these courses.

I think we could do with an equivalent of the English Market in Dublin city centre. There are farmers markets but nothing like the English Market in Cork. It's a small thing but it would work really well in Dublin.

Dale Parish

Remove the minimum wage.

Tora Bora

Tora Bora wrote: »

Cut the dole by five percent pet month. Soon see a lot if lads become available for work. You will see wages fall, due to market force of supply and demand.
Falling wage costs = greater competitiveness = increasing export volume = more employment = virtuous circle. Economy sorted.

unfortunately wages wont fall because the labour court sets minimum wages for many jobs, hence the big who-ha over JLC rates

How about we try capitalism instead of all this mix of the worst crony capitalism/socialism

WalterMitty

offer a free house(ghost estates) to any phd grads wanting to move to europe from india/china/africa. they must have enough money to live and start a business here. There is a huge indian middle class that speaks english and wants to have european lifestyle . Thousands of highly qualified phds in IT /science etc each investing say 50k each in their first few years here would give a great boost. they could have full residency after several years here once working /running business.

population

Legalise drugs and prostitution

silverharp

Dale Parish wrote: »

Lift the minimum wage.

do you understand the consequences of that?

later12

Sell Irish passports and institute a tax reform that makes Ireland a haven for onshore tax tourists.

Welease

Stop trying to buck the system with short term ideas and realise that we need to build sustainable industries rather than the next bubble.

Then start doing it......

later12

Read the original post, the poster is talking about lifting the economic outlook, not fixing the whole thing in one deft move. There is no reason why short term improvements cannot work in co-ordination with longer term policy initiatives.

And by the way, there is no such thing as a 'sustainable industry' that is not subject to bubble growth. Dismissing short term boosts and espousing un-named 'sustainable industries', as though it were a black and white issue is probably the least helpful contribution so far.

problemchimp

I still think Mc Williams idea to sell the banks and their massive debts to China for $1 is not a bad one. The Chinese are trying really hard to get a grip on European banking and we would be debt free. But then again I could be talking out of my big arsse.

Tora Bora

Dale Parish wrote: »

Lift the minimum wage.

Sadly this new government just did that, with the previous government having reduced it by €1 per hour. :rolleyes:
Stupid and populist.

careca11

cut our Corporation Tax to 10%
that won't be long attracting more businesses to the country .......unemployment rate wouldn't be long dropping
plus it would serious pi$s Sarchozy off

pog it

problemchimp wrote: »

I still think Mc Williams idea to sell the banks and their massive debts to China for $1 is not a bad one. The Chinese are trying really hard to get a grip on European banking and we would be debt free. But then again I could be talking out of my big arsse.

The same McWilliams who backed the government guarantee?

problemchimp

pog it wrote: »

The same McWilliams who backed the government guarantee?

As I said, probably talking out of my arsse.
Different idea, how about getting people on social welfare to do 10 hours per week of voluntary work. Let's say, maintaining hospital or school grounds thus saving money to use in the actual health or education system. If they refuse to help out, then cut about 30 euro from their weekly allowance. Of course peoples personal situations have to be taken into account but there is a lot of people on the dole so that is a massive amount of man hours to have at our disposal. And why not get prisioners to make stuff in prison.

clear thinking

There is a separate infrastructure forum but for me this is the crucial factor in growth.

High speed transit based on Limerick, Cork, Galway and Waterford to sub one hour between any of thes towns would dynamise a second economic region to compete against Dublin.

The immediate effect would be a refocusing of the capital budget so there would be no immediate impact.

However the ultimate aim is to allow people to work far from home without an associated long commute, so if a job is going in Cork, a candidate in Galway, unable to move home for whatever reason, can realistically go for the job.

Labour force mobility will have a massive impact.

theg81der

Tora Bora wrote: »

Cut the dole by five percent pet month. Soon see a lot if lads become available for work. You will see wages fall, due to market force of supply and demand.
Falling wage costs = greater competitiveness = increasing export volume = more employment = virtuous circle. Economy sorted.

To go to what jobs? this is the most ridiculous arguement I`ve heard lately. There was a point in tackling long term unemployment when there was jobs we had effectively full employment so anyone who wasn`t relative to frictional or cyclical unemployment clearly was choosing to not work and should not have been in receipt of benefits but this populist opinion makes no sense when there is no jobs.

This "lazy sroungers get of their butt and get a job" crap makes no sense as the people who are now unemployed actually want to work and there are no jobs for them to go to, why are you trying to make their life any worse?

ei.sdraob

later10 wrote: »

Sell Irish passports and institute a tax reform that makes Ireland a haven for onshore tax tourists.

Would they come tho? knowing that the government can slap on another wealth tax on their pensions or savings or investments
Other than that being a tax haven often work out well for small island countries (and territories)

problemchimp

theg81der wrote: »

To go to what jobs? this is the most ridiculous arguement I`ve heard lately. There was a point in tackling long term unemployment when there was jobs we had effectively full employment so anyone who wasn`t relative to frictional or cyclical unemployment clearly was choosing to not work and should not have been in receipt of benefits but this populist opinion makes no sense when there is no jobs.

This "lazy sroungers get of their butt and get a job" crap makes no sense as the people who are now unemployed actually want to work and there are no jobs for them to go to, why are you trying to make their life any worse?

I agree with you there, demonising the unemployed is not the answer. A huge majority really want to work. Voluntary work will always look good on a C.V. and will help the country.

Welease

later10 wrote: »

Read the original post, the poster is talking about lifting the economic outlook, not fixing the whole thing in one deft move. There is no reason why short term improvements cannot work in co-ordination with longer term policy initiatives.

Who said they couldn't? I certaintly didn't..

later10 wrote: »

And by the way, there is no such thing as a 'sustainable industry' that is not subject to bubble growth. Dismissing short term boosts and espousing un-named 'sustainable industries', as though it were a black and white issue is probably the least helpful contribution so far.

Again, who dismissed short term boosts within industries?

I said creating Industries (plural) vs. Bubble (singular). We need to create a diversity of industries in this country, and not be dependant on bubbles (like Building), or create a new singular bubble (in renewable energy, software etc)..

One of the problems with many commentators, is the desire to find the next big thing. I don't personally like all "eggs in the one basket" as that leaves us very open to downturns in specific markets. Hence my response, that a real idea is to stop looking for quick fixes, and spend the time and effort to build longer term sustainable industries (that are less dependant on fickle FDI or bubble conditions).
I would prefer to see a long lasting strong economy in 10-20 years (for my kids), than a boom bust economy that specific short term fixes may bring.

later10 wrote: »

probably the least helpful contribution so far.

Thanks for the review.. Can we review what I actually said next time?
However, i have the feeling your intention is to provoke another pointless arguement here...

iMax

Government should develop the ghost estates & then set off on a mother of a holiday home expo across the US & Europe. Lease them out for €1k a month. Subsirery business would be maintenance & cleaning of the houses between stays. These positions to be given to long term unemployed on a 2 day a week basis - to give them three days a week to look for alternate employment.

Upsides:

€1k per month per home
Flights to Ireland
Utilities (Gas & Electric)
Local spend - food etc.
Local employment - services

iMax

Completely redevelop & modrenise Mosney as a proper themepark with coasters etc & beach access.

meditraitor

Very simple solution

We have some of the best agricultural land on the planet and its be under utilised because the farmers have got lazy on EU grants.

Modern agronomy has passed the Irish by, in most of the world they are developing foods,fuels fibre and any amount of raw materials with worse land than we have at our disposal.

We need to be a net exporter of agricutural based resourses, we should be as there is only 4m inhabitants and a shed load of good land but the EU have severley curtailed us by KEEPING the farmers with grants and the likes.

Dale Parish

silverharp wrote: »

do you understand the consequences of that?

Yes the consequences of removing the minimum wage will be:
1) Increase employment due to the fact that it will no longer be too expensive to employ people
2) A drop in the dole queues as a result of increased employment
3) A much needed boost to exports since it isn't overly expensive to employ people anymore
4) An increase in Ireland's competitiveness rating globally, you know, one of the main the things which brought manufacturing here in the first place
5) Prices get to drop with wages so although people who would be worked for "much" less than they were before still have the same if not better purchasing power.

Happy days

Welease

Dale Parish wrote: »

Yes the consequences of removing the minimum wage will be:
1) Increase employment due to the fact that it will no longer be too expensive to employ people
2) A drop in the dole queues as a result of increased employment
3) A much needed boost to exports since it isn't overly expensive to employ people anymore
4) An increase in Ireland's competitiveness rating globally, you know, one of the main the things which brought manufacturing here in the first place
5) Prices get to drop with wages so although people who would be worked for "much" less than they were before still have the same if not better purchasing power.

Happy days

I think he might have read your post as "raise" not get rid of the minimum wage.. I did

Dale Parish

My apologies then :pac:

foxyboxer

I like the idea of selling up to the Chinese.
Let them have the banks and the debt.
They themselves might be a bubble too, but at least it will clean our debt slate.

The chinese would have a corporate base (with a low taxation policy specific to the Yen) in an english speaking country with direct access to the US and Europe. Sure aren't they a great bunch of lads?

Then we can all look forward to the Chinese premier shouting "Is feidir linn!" in college green.

BO-JANGLES

iMax wrote: »

Completely redevelop & modrenise Mosney as a proper themepark with coasters etc & beach access.

We Really need a theme park ( a PROPER ONE) family's around Europe looking for a break must be put off holidaying here when they see there is not much to do for family's . I have often brought the kids on an hour and a half drive to Rosslare for the ferry to Wales for a day trip to Oakwood. Think of the amount of tourism we could generate and less money leaving our shores.

Bo-jangles

iMax

Families around Ireland are looking for something/somewhere to go.

Taytopark charges €10 per head irrespective of age & is on target for 200,000 admissions this year.

I've been & it's a playground with an animal walkaround. Pretty bad value for money.

A proper theme park could charge much more & would still have decent admissions & the rain will not put people off.

silverharp

Dale Parish wrote: »

Yes the consequences of removing the minimum wage will be:
1) Increase employment due to the fact that it will no longer be too expensive to employ people
2) A drop in the dole queues as a result of increased employment
3) A much needed boost to exports since it isn't overly expensive to employ people anymore
4) An increase in Ireland's competitiveness rating globally, you know, one of the main the things which brought manufacturing here in the first place
5) Prices get to drop with wages so although people who would be worked for "much" less than they were before still have the same if not better purchasing power.

Happy days

my english must be failing me:pac: Lift to me means up-lift , if it means abolish, indeed.

jakdelad

later10 wrote: »

Sell Irish passports and institute a tax reform that makes Ireland a haven for onshore tax tourists.

the selling of passports??
i seem to recall sleazy politicians doing that before
i remember the arabs were keen

theres no one as irish as

achmed patrick sultan bin mohammod

a gobsheite from kerry

later12

jakdelad wrote: »

the selling of passports??
i seem to recall sleazy politicians doing that before
i remember the arabs were keen

Well there was nothing illegal about it, it was Government policy from 1988 - 1998 to issue passports to suitable individuals willing to create investments of the value of IR£1m or more into Irish businesses.

In typically Irish political fashion, the scheme developed a bad name because of some questionable behaviour by Albert Reynolds and CJ Haughey (who took it upon himself to hand over passports personally in the Shelbourne) but over all about 160 passports were issued - by all the main parties - and in principle I agree with it.

We only stopped engaging in this scheme when the country started to feel the purr of the Celtic Tiger, so perhaps it is time to start it up again.

Finnbar01

Deleted

Gudgeoon

1. Most of Leitrim is sealed off and designated a 5* reservation with freedom to buy Class A drugs produced in a laboratory on site.
Prostitution, bloodsports and gambling are legalised within the reservation.
The concession to run the reservation is auctioned to an international Casino firm for billions.

2. A genetic exchange scheme is launched. The lowest forms of Irish pondlife are offered a deal where the state will purchase their passports and offer them a free ticket and a few grand to live somewhere on the other side of the world.
Good looking intelligent hardworking English speaking people are granted passports and relocation money to come here and work in their place. Win win.

3. Trade unionism is made a capital offence.

4. As little as 0% corporate tax depending on the number of staff employed.

5. No minimum wage

6. Work or study for dole scheme. €5/hr.

7. Start teaching Mandarin and Java from primary school on. Fire all religion and Irish teachers.

8. Make it illegal for the state to hire new people directly. All employment contract are subcontracts through agencies by way of competitive tender.

9. All existing state workers and pensioners are paid half their wages in the form of 10yr Irish bonds.

10. Ghost estate to become centres of excellence for worldwide special forces training.

jakdelad

later10 wrote: »

Well there was nothing illegal about it, it was Government policy from 1988 - 1998 to issue passports to suitable individuals willing to create investments of the value of IR£1m or more into Irish businesses.

In typically Irish political fashion, the scheme developed a bad name because of some questionable behaviour by Albert Reynolds and CJ Haughey (who took it upon himself to hand over passports personally in the Shelbourne) but over all about 160 passports were issued - by all the main parties - and in principle I agree with it.

We only stopped engaging in this scheme when the country started to feel the purr of the Celtic Tiger, so perhaps it is time to start it up again.

so you dont see anything wrong with politicians selling sorry handing over passports to rich people in a posh hotels?? for money??...........
much going on in fainna fail these days????

jakdelad

iMax wrote: »

Families around Ireland are looking for something/somewhere to go.

Taytopark charges €10 per head irrespective of age & is on target for 200,000 admissions this year.

I've been & it's a playground with an animal walkaround. Pretty bad value for money.

A proper theme park could charge much more & would still have decent admissions & the rain will not put people off.

yea we could build the worlds biggest roller coaster
and call it the bailout
you go so high then you scream as you hurtle down faster than a standard &poors rating
a ghost train called the IMF train of death

Icepick

meditraitor wrote: »

Very simple solution

We have some of the best agricultural land on the planet

So great that we cannot even grow wheat.

POINTBREAK

Legalise Canabis and start producing a high quality safe product. Make it better and cheaper than what is available. The result would be thousands of jobs created and a lot of happy people.

Prakari

The following chart is an excellent illustration of why the current economic system is failing. The chart basically indicates how effective a new loan is at increasing GDP (its U.S. but applies to many indebted Western countries).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pCDyiFUv9XU/S6UGAnsGArI/AAAAAAAAI8s/1wHV7ehjQdo/s1600-h/Diminishing+Productivity+of+DEBT+(2).jpg

As you can see, it has taken a drastic drop in recent times and appears to be falling exponentially. This effect is the result of debt saturation. Specifically, if an institution or indivdual takes out a new loan, the ability of this loan to generate economic activity is reducing as more of this money is going towards servicing the growing debt in the economy. Basically, before the money gets a chance to flow through the economy and generate growth, someone grabs it to pay off their debt.

I would be very suspicious any any perceived economic recoveries in the coming year, especially in Western countries. Just look at the U.S. It has had minor growth but major inflation. One has to try and distinguish between an increase in the money supply, and an increase in goods and services.

clear thinking

Prakari wrote: »

The following chart is an excellent illustration of why the current economic system is failing. The chart basically indicates how effective a new loan is at increasing GDP (its U.S. but applies to many indebted Western countries).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pCDyiFUv9XU/S6UGAnsGArI/AAAAAAAAI8s/1wHV7ehjQdo/s1600-h/Diminishing+Productivity+of+DEBT+(2).jpg

As you can see, it has taken a drastic drop in recent times and appears to be falling exponentially. This effect is the result of debt saturation. Specifically, if an institution or indivdual takes out a new loan, the ability of this loan to generate economic activity is reducing as more of this money is going towards servicing the growing debt in the economy. Basically, before the money gets a chance to flow through the economy and generate growth, someone grabs it to pay off their debt.

I would be very suspicious any any perceived economic recoveries in the coming year, especially in Western countries. Just look at the U.S. It has had minor growth but major inflation. One has to try and distinguish between an increase in the money supply, and an increase in goods and services.

But would it not speed up the point at which money does start to flow as doing nothing would mean it would take longer for those trying to clear debt to clear it?

MonkieSocks

To create jobs quickly,

Reduce the hours in the working week so that we will create jobs by people working less hours and those on the dole will HAVE to take up the slack.

This will slash our welfare payments and bring in more Taxes from having a lot more people in employment and more money will be spent by consumers.

wiseguy

You want more jobs and to lift the economy?
You want "ideas"??

Well then let these people called entrepreneurs do their thing, let them come up with ideas and implement them!
tax them less, do everything to facilitate business startups such as providing loans, removing red tape, renting facilities and more importantly help create business connections.

Instead of some crazy centralized 5 year plan
what the country needs is a fertile bed for new business to grow in. Let capitalism do its own thing please, and when these businesses fail [and most do and will] please let them fail with bankruptcy reform.