I'm glad I never bought "gold".

DeVore

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

I rarely just paste-and-run but that really tells the whole story. I never bought gold and I never will now!


DeV.

witless1

It makes for an interesting read and it is an area I have looked at as part of a project in work. This is the first time I have seen it linked to prisoners though. Virtual economy trading is a big earner in China and somehow it is still growing. Whatever about other games WoW at the moment is self sustaining with no farming. I have sat on 50k gold for months and blew a large chunk of it to power level professions when Cata came out. Since then I am on ~20k and do no dailys, just log in and raid and log back out. I could see where the market for it was back in TBC because I had to farm for 2 hours to cover the costs of a progression raid. Spend 50 euro and don't farm for a couple of months certainly sounds attractive. That model is gone since WOTLK, little things like feasts and cauldrons and guild repairs means gold is worthless outside of BoEs, professions and buying vanity items.

I would like to see Blizzard tackle it head on and "sell" gold themselves or follow a model like EVE online where you can trade in game time to sell on the market / AH. Their excuse, which is valid to be fair, is the destabilization of the economy and giving people an advantage through real world wealth. Surely that's better then effectively condoning slavery considering the economy is broke in the sense that raiding is not costly and gold has little value. That and the sheer number of botters has ruined the gathering economy a well.

Sonics2k

witless1 wrote: »

It makes for an interesting read and it is an area I have looked at as part of a project in work. This is the first time I have seen it linked to prisoners though. Virtual economy trading is a big earner in China and somehow it is still growing. Whatever about other games WoW at the moment is self sustaining with no farming. I have sat on 50k gold for months and blew a large chunk of it to power level professions when Cata came out. Since then I am on ~20k and do no dailys, just log in and raid and log back out. I could see where the market for it was back in TBC because I had to farm for 2 hours to cover the costs of a progression raid. Spend 50 euro and don't farm for a couple of months certainly sounds attractive. That model is gone since WOTLK, little things like feasts and cauldrons and guild repairs means gold is worthless outside of BoEs, professions and buying vanity items.

I would like to see Blizzard tackle it head on and "sell" gold themselves or follow a model like EVE online where you can trade in game time to sell on the market / AH. Their excuse, which is valid to be fair, is the destabilization of the economy and giving people an advantage through real world wealth. Surely that's better then effectively condoning slavery considering the economy is broke in the sense that raiding is not costly and gold has little value. That and the sheer number of botters has ruined the gathering economy a well.

For the record, the Chinese Government banned gold farming about 2 years ago (Linkey)

And considering all the other crap Blizzard are charging us for, I won't be surprised when they someday start selling gold.

And that will be a sad day indeed.

TheDoc

From dealing with a number of Chinese nationals through Airsoft dealings I was aware of the way gold was farmed some years ago, although this is a bit extreme to what I was told.

One supplier himself worked in a "farming office" with his brother for about a year. Said there was nothing bad about it and that it was like any other company. Told me that obviously there was the rackets like the article above but he never experienced any malice and enjoyed his time there.

I've bought gold a few times and it seems the company I buy from is a reputable seller, professional in how its run and treats it staff, so I'd have no problem buying again from them.

They make a pretty big deal on their site actually to mention this and the bloke i know could confirm as a few of his friends still work for this company going on three years.

So yeah whilst I'd maybe regret buying gold if it was from something like above, I've no problem buying from a reputable seller.

Although at this point, I havnt bought gold since start of wotlk after I got into gold making, so its a mute point now

grizzly

Is this not just the 21st century equivalent of having criminals breaking rocks?

pjreilly

DeVore wrote: »

I rarely just paste-and-run but that really tells the whole story. I never bought gold and I never will now!

Tom if you were a gold buyer I'd have to hunt you down in real life and bonk you on the noggin.

settings

TheDoc wrote: »

Although at this point, I havnt bought gold since start of wotlk after I got into gold making, so its a mute point now

Sure with your domination of the AH it probably makes things worse for the goldsellers - they need to work even more overtime now to earn them minnows that slip through the holes of your net

jill_valentine

grizzly wrote: »

Is this not just the 21st century equivalent of having criminals breaking rocks?

They're doing that too though. Physical labour by day, and gold farming by night. Rough stuff.

TheDoc

settings wrote: »

Sure with your domination of the AH it probably makes things worse for the goldsellers - they need to work even more overtime now to earn them minnows that slip through the holes of your net

Gold farmers are the reason I make my gold, simples.

Without gold farmers the price of herbs would be alot higher.

I have three goldfarmers on my friends list who are on all the time. Usually twice a week I'll buy cinderbloom from them in bulk, it works out I pay 9g a stack.

Now , 9g a stack, a stack of cinderbloom makes roughly about 3-5 glyphs depending. I sell my glyphs at lowest price of 10g. So for every stack I buy I make roughly 30-40g profit.

I'm not saying the above article is cool or anything, but if goldfarmers dissapeared tomorrow, the impact o nthe game would be MASSIVE.

Its a discussion that goes on all the time gold making communities, and really the opinion is that it is a neccesary evil, otherwise the economy in the game would just collapse due to the idiotic nature of players and how they think eveything they sell is worth a ton in gold...

DeVore

Yes someone should have to raise their hands above their head and be beaten with sticks so that you can have cheaper virtual goods in a virtual game world.


Our planet is f*cked.



DeV.

TheDoc

DeVore wrote: »

Yes someone should have to raise their hands above their head and be beaten with sticks so that you can have cheaper virtual goods in a virtual game world.


Our planet is f*cked.



DeV.

I said I wasn't condoning the practice. But as I also mentioned the story you linked is very much a minority incident. Most companies that sell gold are reputable companies, yeah of course they setup in China because of the **** min wage and **** all rights, but thats not their fault, thats Chinas fault.

All I'm point out is that whilst you maybe you've never bought gold, and maybe you've no intention.

If you play World of warcraft, you have helped this economy, and its unavoidable. : /

Think your taking my words out of context there big shtyle.....

DeVore

Ok I kinda get what you mean but by buying gold (or buying good from them) you are directly rewarding Gold Sellers and perpetuating their business.

By playing the game I'm not directly creating the market for them or rewarding them. I dont think it stacks up to say that just because I have played the game (I dont any longer, I play other MMO's) that I add to this problem.

Its a discussion that goes on all the time gold making communities, and really the opinion is that it is a neccesary evil, otherwise the economy in the game would just collapse due to the idiotic nature of players and how they think eveything they sell is worth a ton in gold...

"necessary evil"? thats not me twisting your words... thats me quoting them
In terms of the article I posted I cant agree with that.

DeV.

TheDoc

But see the point is everything in the game that flows through the AH ( well nearly) stems from goldfamers. Goldfamers graft all the herbs, all the ore, all the fish, all the food.

They pretty much feed the economy of the game.

I think that the point is drifting sideways and that its coming across lik eI'm al up for battering lads to play wow all day ( getting bet and playing wow all day I'm sure is someone peoples wet dream) but I was just trying to convey while the original story is pretty saddening, there are plenty of gold selling companies that run their business properly.

And in fairness, this is China we are talking about...not exactly the pinnacle of human rights : /

witless1

TheDoc wrote: »

Goldfamers graft all the herbs, all the ore, all the fish, all the food.

Imagine if they left the game, those resources would still be there. People would still farm them in bulk and people would still make gold. A minority of the player base would feel annoyed, the minority that sit and churn through raw mats to turn over a profit. Those that just want food / pots will pay the extra bit or go farm them. I don't think the economy would suddenly collapse if goldsellers left the game, it would take a dive no doubt about that but the opportunists would come in. The only industry that would cause the market to go upside down would be JC with the volume of gems a raider goes through. Even then it would level out if people see it's worth it they might start farming ore again.

Those people in other threads and forums complaining about nothing else to do could spend the few hours farming. Right now it's not worth my time to farm and try undercut the gold selling machine. Back in TBC the food market was one of the biggest and I made a fortune going out farming Basilisk Livers to make the SP food. There always exists a niche, it's just now from a gold making PoV you are blessed to have such a cut throat raw material market driven by gold sellers. The items you craft and sell wouldn't have such a big market if people weren't buying gold

Sonics2k

All I want to add to this is that quite a large amount of the major Gold-Selling companies (IGXE for example) are actually U.S. owned, they just employ labour in Asia, mostly focused in China.

MagicIRL

I don't see a problem? Sure, American prisons force prisoners to make licence plates, just because China has there prisoners making virtual items doesn't make it any different.

I myself have never bought gold, nor do I intend to. I'll farm my mats and money myself, and ride the moral horse att he same time. #winning

Omphin

never have, never will. I can make it too easy myself

DeVore

MagicIRL wrote: »

I don't see a problem? Sure, American prisons force prisoners to make licence plates, just because China has there prisoners making virtual items doesn't make it any different.

I myself have never bought gold, nor do I intend to. I'll farm my mats and money myself, and ride the moral horse att he same time. #winning

Did you read the bit about beating them if they don't make enough?

DeV.

Calhoun

This is a bit of a mess to be honest, its kinda like someone buying drugs being just as bad as the dealer as they are creating the market conditions but it seems so unreal as its not a real thing pretty FUBAR tbh.

OMG Its EoinD

Guys , call me crazy , but I think I just found a way to cut unemployment in Ireland.......

tom_ass19

Buying gold makes baby murlocs cry....

Berns

Im_EoinD wrote: »

Guys , call me crazy , but I think I just found a way to cut unemployment in Ireland.......

Get me a game card and sign me up