RTE commence broadcasting free to air on satellite at 9e on KA band

Apogee

bog_trotter wrote: »

I have a Sony Bravia Kdl37w5810 which has Freesat and Diseqc and the non-Freesat mode is user-friendly enough. I think this model is no longer made but can still be found on Amazon.

Have you ever tried it in non-Freesat mode? Could you post a few pics?

excollier

@ Apogee I understand that but your meter and receiver need to be able to do this too, not IF but the incoming frequency minus the LO, surely.
I am missing something here obviously, if you can't "ask" your meter or receiver to "look" for frequencies higher than 12750, then surely it will be impossible to search and receive it, it would be like asking a terrestrial receiver to search for IF frequencies.
Without the facility of a higher LO setting in the meter, then it will surely just fail to see the higher freqencies.
Anyway it's hypothetical, as I am receiving Saorview from two transmitters here, together with Freeview and Freesat.
I would not like to see lots of people to get tripped up by a simple oversight.
I will try it out when I get the correct LNB, and feed it to my Humax HDR, see what happens, if I am wrong, then you are right and happy days for us all

Apogee

No, you've got it wrong. ISAA has already posted a pic which shows the frequency on the meter or receiver is irrelevant.

excollier

Apogee wrote: »

No, you've got it wrong. ISAA has already posted a pic which shows the frequency on the meter or receiver is irrelevant.

Then I stand humbly corrected and look forward to getting hold of a Ka lnb to play with, thanks for your help.
I have the multifeed dish set up with an lnb slot for 9e waiting to be filled, can't wait.

Apogee

excollier wrote: »

Then I stand humbly corrected and look forward to getting hold of a Ka lnb to play with, thanks for your help.

No worries. It will work!

ISAA

Apogee wrote: »

No worries. It will work!

All,

I did the testing with the avaria fergusion rx, and the promax explorer II, the explorer on full spectrum, and the rx on blind scan.

The signal level with my metre :

72db,
C/N 4.2db.
dish : 74cm andrew offset.
No waveguide,
just WR 42 flange,
Signal level on receiver was 90%, and quality 80%, not bad for DIY install, with tape and cable ties

regards,

Gerry

watty

I pointed out last July that the only special bit is the LNB. Any DVB-S2 HD receiver will work, though having MHEG5 (Freesat HD) is an advantage. It will work will ANY LO in the receiver, just makes the displayed frequency wrong. Back in Analogue sat Era people used 9.75 GHz LO Enhanced LNBs on set-boxes with fixed internal 10.000 LO setting for Standard LNBs etc.

People have done same in past with C-Band.

ISAA wrote: »

No waveguide,
just WR 42 flange,
Signal level on receiver was 90%, and quality 80%, not bad for DIY install, with tape and cable ties

If you keep that up you might get struck off the ISAA approved installers
Not professional

Testing in 2001
Sky LNB 28E, 19E and 13E

John896

If i got this from ebay uk item number,320701024946
What else would i need thanks.

bog_trotter

Apogee wrote: »

Have you ever tried it in non-Freesat mode? Could you post a few pics?

@ Apogee: yeah, I mainly use it in non-Freesat mode, two dishes, with Diseqc. I'd be happy to post you some screenshots, but unfortunately, especially given the launch this weekend of HD on RTE2...grrrr... it's off getting a new satellite board at the moment as it had been giving trouble on some frequencies (happily still under guarantee)

chputney

Here is a spectrum shot of KaSAT 9E Irish spot. The RTE signal is at 1015MHz. The other signal are Tooway. Since my LNB is 21.2GHz, the spectrum is inverted so the Tooway frequencies are lower.

watty

John896 wrote: »

If i got this from ebay uk item number,320701024946
What else would i need thanks.

30V PSU
Dish pointed at 9E
VERY strong LNB arm on Dish.

TBH I'd not bother with those.

Estimated dish size and interference between Irish and French spots.
Note that the 44cm might be 65cm for adequate rain margin.

You can see that reception in UK midlands if there is no French spot carrier interference would be feasible, but that most or all of Wales will lose Saorsat due to too high BER if the French Calais spot is running an overlapping carrier.

A bigger dish simply increases BOTH signals and doesn't help unless there is NO signal on French Spot. OTH Ballycastle, Co.Antrim will have weakest signal (May need 90cm or 1m rather than 70cm) but is unaffected by other spots. Very hard to be sure if Cornwall is "in" or destroyed by French signal.

Note that contours will be slightly eliptical in NNW/SSE direction as Satellite is above Equator at 9E and Ireland is 6W to 9W roughly.

Coverage and Spill-over testing at present. Wouldn't surprise me if they turn a French Spot carrier on/off to see effect on BER in Waterford.

The Astra 2A /2B are Ku. On ka the dish gain is about 5dB more for same size! But rain attenuation much more.
9E vs 28E, so 29 Degree elevation vs 22 Degree means less atmospheric path (i.e. better)
25,000 SR gives better BER than 27500 SR for same power (Saorsat 9E, vs 2A/2B), though 2D is 22,000
FEC is 1/2 vs 3/4 for 2A,2B (2D is 5/6, less robust), So Saorsat more robust.
We don't know EIRP, so can't really calculate dish needed in heavy rain. However the relative dish sizes are not far off in the diagram.

I have heard 65cm mentioned. But I don't know if that's for Letterkenny or Athlone!

liamtech

Im confused as to how a Freesat box could possibly utilize the Saorsat EPG - Correct me if im wrong but the only Freesat box with the ability to download EPG data is the Technisat HDFS - in fairness i have only used the HDFS, Grundig, Goodmans and Sagem - But you would have to go into Other channel mode to view a Saorsat channel, and there is no EPG in Non-Freesat mode.

Apogee

Freesat and Saorsat with the one dish.







Again I'll put rest of pics in Saorsat sticky thread.

watty

liamtech wrote: »

Im confused as to how a Freesat box could possibly utilize the Saorsat EPG - Correct me if im wrong but the only Freesat box with the ability to download EPG data is the Technisat HDFS - in fairness i have only used the HDFS, Grundig, Goodmans and Sagem - But you would have to go into Other channel mode to view a Saorsat channel, and there is no EPG in Non-Freesat mode.

You're confusing the overall EPG Menu with list of Freesat channels and the DVB-EPG usually available on a particular channel.

The DVB spec includes feature of up to 7 days info on a channel. DVB-EIT. Nothing on Sky/Freesat transmits it. So Sky News (not a Freesat channel) won't have more than now/next.

But on various Freesat boxes what extended program information is available if you use non-Freesat mode with 19E and German channels transmitting full 5 day to 7 day DVB EPG? I know the channel and its info will not be on the main EPG (possibly though if Humax with Channel Editor?) but if you select the channel to view there should be more than now/next on some Freesat HD boxes...

If RTE launches/re-launches their MHEG5 based EPG, that ought to launch on a Freesat box when an Saorsat channel is selected unless the box maker has disabled MHEG5 in non-Freesat mode (no need to do so in spec, or royalty issue, but some fool TV makers have done this when Ireland rather than UK is selected)

Rick_

Apogee wrote: »

Freesat and Saorsat with the one dish.

Again I'll put rest of pics in Saorsat sticky thread.

How technical!

What STB are you using?

Is RTÉ TWO in HD on satellite too or is this just on Saorview?

What equipment are you using? Gonna get my dish sorted soon for 28.2E, but if 28.2E and 9E is possible on one dish I may look into getting them both done at the same time.

watty

The Ka-Sat has only test loop of RTE Programming, the Saorsat service is not live yet.

Nearly any DVB-S2 HD setbox (except maybe not a Sky HD box) will work with correct Ka-band LH Circular LNBF for 19.2 to 20.2GHz or 19.7 to 20.2GHz.
(The transponder for the spot beam is about 238MHz wide).

http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

Apogee

Paddy C wrote: »

What STB are you using?

Is RTÉ TWO in HD on satellite too or is this just on Saorview?

What equipment are you using? Gonna get my dish sorted soon for 28.2E, but if 28.2E and 9E is possible on one dish I may look into getting them both done at the same time.

It's all in the sticky thread - you should read them occasionally, they can be quite informative :P
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485&page=77
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485&page=78
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485&page=82

watty wrote: »

Nearly any DVB-S2 HD setbox (except maybe not a Sky HD box) will work with correct Ka-band LH Circular LNBF for 19.2 to 20.2GHz or 19.7 to 20.2GHz.

19.7-20.2GHz is much more readily available as an LNB from my searching.

watty

watty wrote: »

Nearly any DVB-S2 HD setbox (except maybe not a Sky HD box) will work with correct Ka-band LH Circular LNBF for 19.2 to 20.2GHz or 19.7 to 20.2GHz.
(The transponder for the spot beam is about 238MHz wide).

http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

In what way would a box handle a circular LNB when it expects a linear one? I assume there's no setting to specify H/V or L/R?

Apogee

Karsini wrote: »

In what way would a box handle a circular LNB when it expects a linear one? I assume there's no setting to specify H/V or L/R?

Swedish Microwave wrote:

Q. Roughly how does circular depolarisation work - Ive heard you can use either a dielectric plate or a 'piece of teflon' - I'm very confused over this whole issue.

A. Here you should see a vector rotating. Then you wonder what the heck is this. Well, I'll try to explain.



The black vector rotating represents the circular polarisation wave rotating about 12000000000 turns/sec (12 Ghz). What I am trying to explain is that you can add two linear waves that are orthogonal but 90° out of phase (meaning that while one vector is at his peak the other is zero and vice versa) and the result will be a circular polarized wave. If you only look at the red vector it actually is a linear horisontal wave and if you look at the blue vector it is a vertical linear wave.

The great thing about this is that if these waves are out of phase the result of the two linear waves is a circular wave. This means that you can consider a circular wave as two orthogonal waves that are 90° out of phase. If you have a LNB receiving linear polarisation you can pick up one of the two waves, resulting in that you can pick up half of the signal which is a loss of 3 dB.

To receive all of the signal you have to transform the circular wave to a linear wave with a dielectric plate (the dielectric plate can be made of teflon). Well how does this work?

If you look at the picture again you will see that if we could make the red and the blue waves to be in phase instead of out of phase we would have a linear wave at 45 degree angle from red and blue wave. So how can we make them in phase? The answer is the dielectric plate. If we put the plate along either the red or blue wave this wave will be delayed while propogating in the plate since the velocity of a wave propogating in a dielectric material is lower than the velocity in air.

So the answer is :

1. You will gain 3 dB which is the same as increasing you dish size from 1.3 to about 1.8 m. Not too bad, isn't it.

2. To mount the dielectric plate in a existing LNB you need to have a plate of correct length (to delay the signal excactly the amount needed to make the signals in phase). Further it should be tapered to avoid reflections of the signal. Then you have to open the cap of the LNB to be able to stick the dielectric plate into the waveguide. If the waveguide is long enough you are a lucky guy. Put the plate so it is aligned in between the two probes of the LNB (if you can see them). Then you can put the cap on again. That's it, easy don't you say :-). Remember that if you now want to receive linear polarisation you have to remove the plate, otherwise you'll loose 3 dB and have a terrible low cross polarisation rejection. Well, it's perhaps easier to buy a new LNB from SMW like the Singo RHC Offset.

3. No, there is no such thing on the market.

4. You can put together Feedrotor,Depolariserand a XLNBor LNB to do the job. It will probably cost you from GPB 200.

5. Probably you are even more confused than before. If that is the case, please let me know and we will give it another try.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040711185049/http://www.smw.se/qa/qa5.htm

Short answer: depolariser converts RHCP/LHCP to H or V. Some receivers actually have a LHCP or RHCP setting, esp those designed for US market. Enigma 2 receivers as well as it happens.

watty

The box doesn't care about polarisation at all, not even H & V. It's only a setting associated with a "transponder" to select 13V or 18V to the LNB. The LNB does anything that's done with polarisation.

Since the spot is all one polarisation and less than 250MHz bandwidth, no polarisation switching or band switching is needed. All you need is correct LNB type.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

The box doesn't care about polarisation at all, not even H & V. It's only a setting associated with a "transponder" to select 13V or 18V to the LNB. The LNB does anything that's done with polarisation.

Since the spot is all one polarisation and less than 250MHz bandwidth, no polarisation switching or band switching is needed. All you need is correct LNB type.

Watty where does the figure of 250MHz bandwidth come from? Are the tech specs of the satellite published online somewhere?

The parameters been used atm allow for approx 24-25 Mbps, I wonder will they stay with this or just for testing. If further content becomes available and wishes to use Saorsat will further capacity be aquired or paramters changed. Probably questions for RTÉ.

How would a second Ka-Sat band plan work, I assume it would be different frequency range to avoid interference to the existing spots?

Solair

While the technology is indeed very interesting, let me pose the one question that most consumers will have:

Can you combine SaorSat and FreeSat into a single box or built-in tuner in a TV?

If not, it's going to be really only useful for people who have poor RTE reception.

My concern is that if RTE do not come up with a practical way of getting combined Saorsat/view reception with Freesat, then they will simply lose rural viewers who will not bother buying the equipment.

I know plenty of homes around Donegal, Sligo and Leitrim who will not fork out for Sky so just forego RTE/TV3 completely!

Sponge Bob

Solair wrote: »

While the technology is indeed very interesting, let me pose the one question that most consumers will have:

Can you combine SaorSat and FreeSat into a single box or built-in tuner in a TV?

You can, a Humax has a hidden menu to do Disecq switching. Technisat HDFS Freedsat HD units will also handle multiple sats with Disecq switching. Neither will support terrestrial as well but will combine Astra Freesat and Ka Sat onto one menu. There is a €300 PVR version of the Humax with a HD built in.

My only reservation concerns sending a Ka H or V to what is a Circularly Polarised LNB. It may be that the voltage corresponds to a Ku V or H so you simply tell the Humax that the circular Ka LNB is a H or V and that does not spook the LNB. Maybe you send the voltage to dev/null. Anyway I wouldn't mind an explanation if someone would be so kind.

Freesat HD comes with MHEG5 IIRC. Be interesting to see what happens when MHEG5 appears from a 'not an Astra 2 direction' for the first time in recorded history

The Edision will also do Disecq and DVB-S2 as will the Ferguson but they have no MHEG5 handling.

I know plenty of homes around Donegal, Sligo and Leitrim who will not fork out for Sky so just forego RTE/TV3 completely!

Donegal, in fairness , has 1 in 5 of ALL Saorview transmitters if we include Truskmore ( 10 out of the 51). They are not at their final outputs yet.

However the Saorsat willl be at its lowest in the SKY when viewed from Donegal..perhaps 20 degrees over horizon. It will be much higher and more usable in a black spot on the South Coast.

I would very much like to hear RTEs proposals for dealing with Dual DTT/DVB Blackspots...eg Leenane in Co. Galway which is in satellite shadow and will lose its analogue relay next year.

Sattje

Sponge Bob wrote: »

My only reservation concerns sending a Ka H or V to what is a Circularly Polarised LNB. It may be that the voltage corresponds to a Ku V or H so you simply tell the Humax that the circular Ka LNB is a H or V and that does not spook the LNB. Maybe you send the voltage to dev/null. Anyway I wouldn't mind an explanation if someone would be so kind.

Does Viasat answer this question?

watty

Sponge Bob wrote: »

1) My only reservation concerns sending a Ka H or V to what is a Circularly Polarised LNB. It may be that the voltage corresponds to a Ku V or H so you simply tell the Humax that the circular Ka LNB is a H or V and that does not spook the LNB. Maybe you send the voltage to dev/null. Anyway I wouldn't mind an explanation if someone would be so kind.

2) However the Saorsat willl be at its lowest in the SKY when viewed from Donegal..perhaps 20 degrees over horizon. It will be much higher and more usable in a black spot on the South Coast.

3) I would very much like to hear RTEs proposals for dealing with Dual DTT/DVB Blackspots...eg Leenane in Co. Galway which is in satellite shadow and will lose its analogue relay next year.

1) It doesn't matter. ALL of the signals on a particular spot are same polarisation, same band for ever on Ka-Sat / Saorsat.

H&V switching
The Ka-LNBF will either ignore 13V vs 18V (if single polarity) as that's all the V & H setting does. Most work on any voltage from 13V to 18V. At worst you have to enter H or V correctly, normally it's ignored.

Band switching
Most Ka-LNBF are single band. The 22kHz off (below 11.7GHz LO = 9.75) and 22kHz on (above 11.7GHz, LO = 10.6) is ignored. If not (i.e. a mysterious bandswitching Ka LNBF for full 2GHz), then you just chose 22kHz on, or enter the equivalent Ku band frequency above 11.7GHz.

The Satellite receiver either has steady 13V or 18V and steady 22kHz off or on (Diseqc signals are pulsed 22kHz tones sent only when you 1st select the channel). It tunes 950MHz to 2100MHz only, ever. The 10.7GHz to 12.6Ghz and H/V is fictional and is assuming the LNB has 9.75GHz or 10.6GHz conversion via 22kHz tone and polarity selection by supply voltage level. You can use a Satellite receiver on ANY band from 40MHz to 400GHz with ANY polarisation as long as the signal is DVB-s or DVB-S2 and is converted between 950MHz to 2100MHz by the LNB or LNBF.

2) In Donegal, Ka-Sat/Saorsat is about 23 or 24 degrees elevation and Sky/Freesat is 17 or 18 degrees. Sky/Freesat is 20 degrees further east, so is always much worse elevation. If you get sunlight on Roof at Spring/Autumn at about 12.30 then you are not obstructed.

3) A community DTT mast is nearly as cheap as a professional three Analogue channels "Deflector" and would have complete Saorview. It can be cheaply fed with just two digital out satellite receivers (no HDMI or SCART or MPEG4 decoders, just the transport stream) from a single output LNBF. Such a mast can easily be sited to receive Ka-Sat and transmit UHF DTT to the community. RTE do plan to help people with these. Places like Carlingford village need to lobby their TD. Such Community schemes might be able to get a BAI/Comreg licence for a 3rd Multiplex that could be fed with BBC. That's more complicated and expensive though. They would have to pay for that and it would need more expensive equipment as the BBC/ITV signals are not so directly suitable for re-transmission on DTT. The royalty to BBC/ITV/C4 would be small for a small community.

Leenane Co.Galway is about 27.18 Degree Elevation for Ka-Sat / Saorsat and 20.6 degrees for Sky/Freesat.

If they can't "see" Ka-Sat from a chimney, then the chimney is only getting about 50 minutes or less sunlight a day.

A suitable Satellite dish is not much more wind load than the 26dBd Chorus MMDS dish.

simonckenyon

watty wrote: »

9E to 5W is 14 degrees... Limit is about 20
If you wait a couple of months the suitable Ka-Band LNBFs should be available cheaply. I can't say more.

will they handle both left and right hand polarisation?

i plan on getting a toroidal dish and the reflector changes the polarisation.

or having now read the entire thread, do i just rotate the LNB by 90 degrees?

watty

I don't think so as that adds a lot of expense and is not needed.

Unless you need more than 20 degree spread (or more than four LNBs) the Toroidal dish is a bad idea:

• Needs much bigger diameter pole
• Much more heavy
• Much higher wind load
• Much more expensive
• Visually much more objectionable due to large secondary reflector
• Standard Saorsat LNBF will not work.

A Triax 90cm with Triax multi-feed bar is fine for Freesat & Saorsat (28E to 9E).

If you really need a Toroidal dish you are going to have to add a 44cm to 65cm second dish for Saorsat (exact minimum size unknown).

With circular polarisation ANY rotation works, H & V are both received equally at -3dB and the "other rotation" is about -20dB or more.

Apogee

simonckenyon wrote: »

will they handle both left and right hand polarisation?

Essentially, any H/V LNBF can be converted to LHCP/RHCP by inserting a dielectric (teflon tab).



As the Ka-band LNBFs used in the US can receive both LHCP and RHCP, I can't see why they wouldn't make similar for Ka-sat.

simonckenyon wrote: »

i plan on getting a toroidal dish and the reflector changes the polarisation.

or having now read the entire thread, do i just rotate the LNB by 90 degrees?

The sub-reflector will change LHCP to RHCP. If you have an RHCP/LHCP LNBF, then no worries. If you have an LHCP LNBF then twisting the LNBF will make zero difference - that's the whole point of using CP. Though you might be able to convert the LHCP LNBF to RHCP by rotating the dielectric in the throat of the feedhorn - depending on construction.

If reception proves difficult on a standard 90cm (e.g. poor rain reserve on Ka-band) then you have the option of multifeed dishes without the subreflector.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485&page=25

Sponge Bob

HM Sat do the Maximum E85 and don't take the piss on delivery charges so that is another €22 on top total = €79 delivered

http://www.hm-sat-shop.de/en/antennen-wavefrontier/multibeam-sat-antenne-maximum-t85.html

Comes with 5 x LNB holders. Full spec in English here.

http://www.worldwidesatellites.com/e85-multi-dish-p-307.html

Edision Argos €119

http://www.hm-sat-shop.de/en/hdd-receiver-hdtv-edision/edision-argus-mini-2in1-ip-hd-dvb-s2-dvb-t-black.html

watty

Note that Ireland needs the multifeed bar at steeper angle than Continental Europe.

The Jonsa unlike triax doesn't look very adjustable. The Triax Bar also allows extra slope by flipping it over.

watty

Apogee wrote: »

As the Ka-band LNBFs used in the US can receive both LHCP and RHCP, I can't see why they wouldn't make similar for Ka-sat.

If reception proves difficult on a standard 90cm (e.g. poor rain reserve on Ka-band) then you have the option of multifeed dishes without the subreflector.

We don't know exact spec of LNBF yet.
We don't know what size dish either. An 80cm multifeed might do.

Triax have 80, 90/95 and 110 that take the adjustable slope Multi-feed bar.

Cheap 80cm (e.g. Lidl) often don't have strong enough arm for more than one LNBF.

Apogee

watty wrote: »

Note that Ireland needs the multifeed bar at steeper angle than Continental Europe.

The Jonsa unlike triax doesn't look very adjustable. The Triax Bar also allows extra slope by flipping it over.

I have a Triax and the multifeed bar. The Triax multifeed bar is also designed for Continental Europe.

Additionally, the Triax dish is not designed for multifeed systems unlike the Jonsa or Maximum designs - if you're trying to claim that the performance of an LNBF offset on a Triax is superior to dishes specifically designed for that purpose, I'd like to see the evidence.

watty wrote: »

We don't know exact spec of LNBF yet.

We don't know the Lotto numbers for Friday night either. What's your point?

shinobi

watty wrote: »

The overall capacity is identical to one DTT Mux. The current content is just test loops, so bitrate is of no significance.

Is that just the equivalent MUX capacity (mentioned earlier to be ~25 Mb/S, but what is the the total beam capacity irrelevant of how many MUX it has to accomodate?

watty

It's about 240MHz.
The capacity depends on Modulation mode, FEC etc. It's about 450Mbs for clear sky 80cm dishes...

The system was designed assuming variable downlink for Internet data, which unlike TV can be allowed to have less capacity when raining and more when sunny.

watty

Apogee wrote: »

I have a Triax and the multifeed bar. The Triax multifeed bar is also designed for Continental Europe.

That's why to get from 9E to 28E here you need to "flip" the bar over. But that works perfectly to give the extra angle needed.

Apogee wrote: »

Additionally, the Triax dish is not designed for multifeed systems unlike the Jonsa or Maximum designs - if you're trying to claim that the performance of an LNBF offset on a Triax is superior to dishes specifically designed for that purpose, I'd like to see the evidence.


We don't know the Lotto numbers for Friday night either. What's your point?

No, the Triax dish is not particularly designed for Multifeed. No non-toroidal really is. That's why for multifeed you need a larger dish the more the LNB is offset and a +/- 10 degrees either side of main focus is rule of thumb (more is possible if the signal is strong or dish is bigger)

The Triax arm though on some of the dishes is designed to take the weight of 4 x quattro. I just couldn't see an angle adjustment on the Jonsa bracket. Maybe there is one that's fine.

My point is that we don't know if the LNBFs will be "cost reduced" single Polarity (as both are never needed on any particular Ka-Spot) or if it will have both polarities (which is more expensive and potentially slightly less performance).

I have a Triax 90/95 supplied by Astra as part of a trial long ago and a Triax TD110. Other people not in Ireland got an 80cm dish. I don't know what the Jonsa or Maximum are like. I do know that if an 80cm or 90/95cm Triax is good enough a Wavefrontier T90 would be extravagant.

Apogee

watty wrote: »

That's why to get from 9E to 28E here you need to "flip" the bar over. But that works perfectly to give the extra angle needed.

You can flip the bar over, and it's still not the required angle. If you hold the LNBFs above the bar, the signal quality rises. The angle on the bar, regardless of how you flip it, is wrong.

watty wrote: »

No, the Triax dish is not particularly designed for Multifeed. No non-toroidal really is. That's why for multifeed you need a larger dish the more the LNB is offset and a +/- 10 degrees either side of main focus is rule of thumb (more is possible if the signal is strong or dish is bigger)

The Triax arm though on some of the dishes is designed to take the weight of 4 x quattro. I just couldn't see an angle adjustment on the Jonsa bracket. Maybe there is one that's fine.

It's not a case that the Triax "is not particularly designed" - it simply isn't designed for multifeed. No more than any other standard offset dish. In fact, the bolt-on multifeed bar on the Triax is a singularly stupid design because it blocks you from mounting an LNBF at the central focal point.

watty wrote: »

My point is that we don't know if the LNBFs will be "cost reduced" single Polarity (as both are never needed on any particular Ka-Spot) or if it will have both polarities (which is more expensive and potentially slightly less performance).

No one said we "knew". But if the US is anything to go by - the largest market for Ka-band DTH currently - then it's likely they will support both.
It's scraping the bottom of the barrel to suggest that a dual polarity LNBF will be substantially more expensive and have "potentially" less performance.

simonckenyon

Apogee wrote: »

The sub-reflector will change LHCP to RHCP. If you have an RHCP/LHCP LNBF, then no worries. If you have an LHCP LNBF then twisting the LNBF will make zero difference - that's the whole point of using CP. Though you might be able to convert the LHCP LNBF to RHCP by rotating the dielectric in the throat of the feedhorn - depending on construction.

thanks. i misuderstood the orientation of the teflon. i though it was a circular disk perpendicular to the signal direction. my bad.

winston_1

watty wrote: »

There are two aspects..

1) If you ONLY want Saorsat, then with suitable dish and Ka-Band LNBF it will work via "other channels"/non-Freesat, but only true "Freesat HD", not HDTVs with "Freesat". Same applies to a setbox.

2) If you want Saorsat AND "Freesat HD" then you need a larger (solid, not mesh/perforated) dish and dual 28E / 9E Ku & Ka feeds and Diseqc switch. The receiver (TV or setbox) has to support non-Freesat AND Diseqc switching. Freesat must be on port 1. Or you can use a 2nd dish for Saorsat with Ka band LNBF and Diseqc. If you have more than one receiver or TV or a PVR, then a Multiswitch may be a better option than a Diseqc switch. Your receiver still needs to do Diseqc

http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/
http://www.techtir.ie/isaa/saorsat_saorview

The LG 7700 range of Freesat TV's support Freesat HD and diseqc (via the secret menu) so should be OK. However neither MHEG 5 nor EBU teletext are supported in non Freesat mode so it's not perfect.

Stinicker

winston_1 wrote: »

The LG 7700 range of Freesat TV's support Freesat HD and diseqc (via the secret menu) so should be OK. However neither MHEG 5 nor EBU teletext are supported in non Freesat mode so it's not perfect.

Are you sure about this? Most Satellite gear operates in the 950Mhz - 2150Mhz range including my own Panasonic Freesat TV and a Technomate box I have, however Saorsat is broadcasting at a way higher frequency of 20185 L at the moment; whilst I'm no expert this appears to be way outside the range of capability of anything I have 950Mhz - 2150Mhz.

Am I missing something here? or will I have to get a new Receiver when it launches later on, which would be a right pain considering my Technomate works great and the plan was to use it to receive Saorsat and and the English FTA channels in a single box using a Diseqc switch switching between my 1 metre dish which I plan to use for Saorsat and Feed I have coming from the Sky dish for the UK channels.

dmm1000

http://www.satsklep.pl/index.php?s=produkt&id_prod=303&id_kat=345&id_typu=0

just saw this link to an LNBF on a polish site - it says "Circular LNBF" - I presume they mean circular polarization - but no mention of Ka band - so prob not suitable for Saorsat ?

Apogee

dmm1000 wrote: »

http://www.satsklep.pl/index.php?s=produkt&id_prod=303&id_kat=345&id_typu=0

just saw this link to an LNBF on a polish site - it says "Circular LNBF" - I presume they mean circular polarization - but no mention of Ka band - so prob not suitable for Saorsat ?

Circular Polarisation Ku-band Universal LNBF for Russian TV on Eutelsat W4 at 36E.
http://www.lyngsat.com/ew4.html

Stinicker

Stinicker wrote: »

Are you sure about this? Most Satellite gear operates in the 950Mhz - 2150Mhz range including my own Panasonic Freesat TV and a Technomate box I have, however Saorsat is broadcasting at a way higher frequency of 20185 L at the moment; whilst I'm no expert this appears to be way outside the range of capability of anything I have 950Mhz - 2150Mhz.

Am I missing something here? or will I have to get a new Receiver when it launches later on, which would be a right pain considering my Technomate works great and the plan was to use it to receive Saorsat and and the English FTA channels in a single box using a Diseqc switch switching between my 1 metre dish which I plan to use for Saorsat and Feed I have coming from the Sky dish for the UK channels.

While the frequency is indeed 20.185 GHz, it's impossible to send such a high frequency signal down a coaxial cable without it being impossibly thick. So the LNB downconverts the signal to within the 950-2150 MHz range - subtract the local oscillator frequency of the LNB from the actual reported frequency to find out exactly where it falls in this range.

This is done regardless of whether the signal is on Ku or Ka band.

The Cush

Stinicker wrote: »

Are you sure about this? Most Satellite gear operates in the 950Mhz - 2150Mhz range including my own Panasonic Freesat TV and a Technomate box I have, however Saorsat is broadcasting at a way higher frequency of 20185 L at the moment; whilst I'm no expert this appears to be way outside the range of capability of anything I have 950Mhz - 2150Mhz.

Am I missing something here? or will I have to get a new Receiver when it launches later on, which would be a right pain considering my Technomate works great and the plan was to use it to receive Saorsat and and the English FTA channels in a single box using a Diseqc switch switching between my 1 metre dish which I plan to use for Saorsat and Feed I have coming from the Sky dish for the UK channels.

Apogee's post might explain

Apogee wrote: »

@dbcool *Any* DVB-S2 HD receiver will do. You just might have to do some sums!

Firstly, check if you can setup a user-defined LNB in Technomate (may be under Antenna Installation). You will have option under one of the headings to change the LO (Local Oscillator) - set this to 18750MHz. When you then go to do a scan, you should be able to enter a frequency of 20185MHz.

If you can't setup a user-defined LNB (you should be able to!), then cheat. Pretend you're using a Universal LNBF. 20185 - 18750 + 9750 = 11185MHz - scan that frequency with SR 25000, FEC 1/2, QPSK, DVB-S2.

Please post pics of your dish and LNB/F if it works!

Saorsat Tp on Ka-Sat = 20185 MHz
Ka Band LNB LO = 18750 MHz
IF Frequency = 1435 MHz (20185 MHz - 18750 MHz)

Ku receiver frequency displayed = 11185 MHz (IF 1435 MHz + Ku Lo-Band LO 9750 MHz)

Rick_

So which channels are up and running at the moment and which aren't? Is there a rough timescale for when the Saorsat service will be up and running?