Rotavate or not....

Sgt Pepper 64

Thats good stuff.

Are you planning to do all lawn still?

That seating area is crying out for a nice flower border or two to look at as you sit out on a hot summers day!

pleuraXeraphim

I have sourced Screened top soil (with sand mixed in) and will get 6 tonnes of it. Also have sourced pebble stone for the drains. Plan is to finish the drains this week. Then I will hire a turf cutter for the weekend. Take a scim off the top of the lawn. Then I will get a fork and loosen the soil all over. Rake in a covering of the new top soild all over. And then plant the grass.

How does that sound. Am I mad in not rotivating

As for the flower beds. I was waiting until the garden was fixed up before we went planting anything. As I kinew we would enbd up having to dig up the ground again. Once the grass and drains are in we will put in the flower beds and start planting some trees and creepers etc. That is for stage 2

Sgt Pepper 64

pleuraXeraphim wrote: »

I have sourced Screened top soil (with sand mixed in) and will get 6 tonnes of it. Also have sourced pebble stone for the drains. Plan is to finish the drains this week. Then I will hire a turf cutter for the weekend. Take a scim off the top of the lawn. Then I will get a fork and loosen the soil all over. Rake in a covering of the new top soild all over. And then plant the grass.

How does that sound. Am I mad in not rotivating

As for the flower beds. I was waiting until the garden was fixed up before we went planting anything. As I kinew we would enbd up having to dig up the ground again. Once the grass and drains are in we will put in the flower beds and start planting some trees and creepers etc. That is for stage 2

Good stuff, its a smashing size garden and will set the house really well.
You are right to persevere

beer enigma

just make sure you dont have bindweed in the ground !

pleuraXeraphim

Andip wrote: »

just make sure you dont have bindweed in the ground !

Andip whats bindweed and what do I need to watch out for ?

slowburner

PX, God bless the work!
I would still be a little concerned at the quality of the soil, seeing that there isn't too much rubbish underneath - I suspect that the soil itself is the principal cause of ponding. Your drains will go some way towards alleviating the problem but if the soil is a heavy, clayey subsoil (which it looks like), then water will pond again and you'll be growing marsh plants instead of grass and you'll be looking at a dreary lawn from next Autumn onwards. All those stones too, will work their way up to the surface, in time.

Now is your best opportunity to scrape off at least 4" of the muck off and level it with a good free-draining topsoil. Hard work, I know, but it will be worth it.
I presume the back of the shed is the lowest point, if so and the drains all lead there - then you might need to construct a soak pit.
Re. the boggy area near the wall (blue line). Best thing is to dig a trench along it and backfill with gravel.
What's that in the pit in front of the shed? It looks as if it might explode :eek:

pleuraXeraphim

Thanks slowburner
The shed is the lowest point in the garden. The drains though will all go underneath the wall at the back of the garden. It is a pre-cast concrete wall and I can dig below the wall and the drain pipes can go out the back to no-mans land. There is also a drop off there so it will take away any excess water.

I've also created a soak pit to specifically deal with the excess water in front of the shed. I spent a few more hours this evening digging and here is how far I have dug so far. Do you think that will be deep enough. I am down almost 3 feet now. But I am weary from the digging and pickaxe work at this stage I feel hope that is deep enough now.



The thing in the trench turned out to be a small little fence. I felt like an archaeologist trying to dig it out

I will try so and remove as much of the surface as I can.

Nonmonotonic

I concur with Slowburner. I think in defense of the person who did your lawn, the Creator would have problems with the heaviness of your soil. From the original pictures of pipe laying, it looks like pure clay! Have you seen the previous thread on garden drainage?

slowburner

pleuraXeraphim wrote: »

Thanks slowburner
The shed is the lowest point in the garden. The drains though will all go underneath the wall at the back of the garden. It is a pre-cast concrete wall and I can dig below the wall and the drain pipes can go out the back to no-mans land. There is also a drop off there so it will take away any excess water.

I've also created a soak pit to specifically deal with the excess water in front of the shed. I spent a few more hours this evening digging and here is how far I have dug so far. Do you think that will be deep enough. I am down almost 3 feet now. But I am weary from the digging and pickaxe work at this stage I feel hope that is deep enough now.



The thing in the trench turned out to be a small little fence. I felt like an archaeologist trying to dig it out

I will try so and remove as much of the surface as I can.

Glad you're still with us - I thought there might have been a fuse attached to that thing
I'd say you've gone deep enough for sure. All the work you have done plus a generous amount of topsoil should sort it. If all else fails, you could start a pottery business with all that clay!

Sgt Pepper 64

pleuraXeraphim wrote: »

Thanks slowburner
The shed is the lowest point in the garden. The drains though will all go underneath the wall at the back of the garden. It is a pre-cast concrete wall and I can dig below the wall and the drain pipes can go out the back to no-mans land. There is also a drop off there so it will take away any excess water.

I've also created a soak pit to specifically deal with the excess water in front of the shed. I spent a few more hours this evening digging and here is how far I have dug so far. Do you think that will be deep enough. I am down almost 3 feet now. But I am weary from the digging and pickaxe work at this stage I feel hope that is deep enough now.



The thing in the trench turned out to be a small little fence. I felt like an archaeologist trying to dig it out

I will try so and remove as much of the surface as I can.

Crikey! A bit wider and you have a lovely Koi Carp pool!

Good work though, this time next year it will all be worth it.
(Then you'll want to move!)

beer enigma

pleuraXeraphim wrote: »

Andip whats bindweed and what do I need to watch out for ?

Its unlikely that you'll have it in the lawn - unfortunately I did and didnt realise it. If you snap the root the weed multiplies & unfortunately I rotavated mine & have spend the last 2 years with a lawn full

As I say, very unlikely that you will but worth checking

http://www.gardenplansireland.com/forum/about95.html

pleuraXeraphim

Thanks for feedback again.

We had rain last night and there is a small bit of water and the bottom of the pit. Will see how long it takes to drain. Perhaps I should dig down another bit further so that I dont get any accumulations.

Also in the drains that I had dug. There is a good collection of water sitting inside the drain alongside where the patio is. This water will no doubt enter the Wavin piping when Its installed and it will drain away. So I guess that the drains will work - hopefully.

I am nervous though after putting in this work if the drains will be sufficient and if I am Putting down enough of them ?

slowburner

We should probably wait and see how long the water takes to drain.

Sgt Pepper 64

pleuraXeraphim wrote: »

Thanks for feedback again.

We had rain last night and there is a small bit of water and the bottom of the pit. Will see how long it takes to drain. Perhaps I should dig down another bit further so that I dont get any accumulations.

Also in the drains that I had dug. There is a good collection of water sitting inside the drain alongside where the patio is. This water will no doubt enter the Wavin piping when Its installed and it will drain away. So I guess that the drains will work - hopefully.

I am nervous though after putting in this work if the drains will be sufficient and if I am Putting down enough of them ?

Its not just the drains its also clearing the rocks and rubbish, you will need a good foot of soil depth to grow good grass.

pleuraXeraphim

Ye have me worried now with talks of taking chunks off top soild off the surface. As much as I have drainage problems I wouldn't have thought it was severe. The cost of a foot of new top soil for a garden based on the dimensions in the above schematic would be very costly. And then removal of the old top soil.

I was thinking of hiring either a Mini Skid Steer or a micro/mini excavator for the weekend. So I can skim of the surface of the soil. Maybe 3 to 4 inches. Also I can dig up and loosen the areas that are bad. It would also help in digging the last drain in the marshy part of the garden to the right of the patio.

So far I ve been quoted €220 for a micro excavator for this weekend. Does that sound reasonable. Would a digger be overkill or a good idea. My back in nearly broken from the digging

Based on the schematic above. What sort of quantity of top soil and pebble stone would I need ?
Any other help would be appreciated. I am at a critical stage of the planning now

Sgt Pepper 64

I agree I dont think your drainage problems are that bad.
Also, as long as you can put your spade in at least a foot without hitting any big stones or rubbish, you should be ok, after all, you are not going for "bowling green" grass

slowburner

pleuraXeraphim wrote: »

Ye have me worried now with talks of taking chunks off top soild off the surface. As much as I have drainage problems I wouldn't have thought it was severe. The cost of a foot of new top soil for a garden based on the dimensions in the above schematic would be very costly. And then removal of the old top soil.

I was thinking of hiring either a Mini Skid Steer or a micro/mini excavator for the weekend. So I can skim of the surface of the soil. Maybe 3 to 4 inches. Also I can dig up and loosen the areas that are bad. It would also help in digging the last drain in the marshy part of the garden to the right of the patio.

So far I ve been quoted €220 for a micro excavator for this weekend. Does that sound reasonable. Would a digger be overkill or a good idea. My back in nearly broken from the digging

Based on the schematic above. What sort of quantity of top soil and pebble stone would I need ?
Any other help would be appreciated. I am at a critical stage of the planning now

I hired a 3/4 ton mini digger recently for €150 all in, for a weekend. If you do decide get one to scrape the muck off - make sure you plan your route, so that you don't end up compacting the soil even more.
I think you would get away with a 6" covering of topsoil - no problem.
My guess is that 3 to 4 tons would be enough. I bought good (unscreened) topsoil from a local farmer for €20 per ton recently - it will cost you more, of course, if you can't transport it yourself. Know any farmers?

Enough work already!
Just get as much of the crappy, stony, compacted stuff away as you can and wrap it all up in a nice cosy blanket of topsoil. By August you'll have the makings of a good lawn. With a bit of 10-10-20 next spring, you'll be bowling on it. Have a kit-kat

sponge_bob

Jeeeeessssssss this is turning out to big a big job:eek:

but i guess it will be done right and you won't have to come back to it again in a few months.

GL with the work, i would love to be their with ya

pleuraXeraphim

Yeah the project has expanded a bit

I have gone ahead and ordered a 1 Ton Mini Digger for tomorrow afternoon and at half the price. But I only have it for about 24 hours, so I will need to be very efficient. I have also ordered in 5 Tonnes of Screened Top Soil and a Ton and a Half of Stone for the drains.

I am half tempted to go for the Turf Sods but I'm not sure the budget wil stretch that far. Any idea what brand of grass to use and how much I would typically need? I only really need a general hardwaring grass.

Will post up some progress pics over the next few days. Hopefully things work out the way I have planned.

pleuraXeraphim

Update on my progress: Here are some of the photos of the past few days. The last two images were taken last night after the heavy rain we have had here. I guess it is a good sign that the trenches are filling up with the water. Even with the digger though it has turned out to be a very slow and labour intensive job. In parts of the garden the soil appeared okay and in other parts the ground was rock hard and full of stone.

A couple of things that I have encountered:

1) I have layed just 2 drains with the Wavin piping. However I found that having layed it and covered over with top soil; that when I would walk on top I could feel the pipe bend underneath. I will need to dig them a little bit deeper and have more stones on top of the Wavin Pipe so that I dont feel the pipe underneath.
2) Trying to ensure that there is a slope all the time can be quite difficult. Last nights rain was helpful in determining where that has failed. I decided on digging 2 other mini soak pits. Of them on the right hand side of the patio where the ground was also marshy.

Image 7
Arial photo of some of the dug drains last Saturday. The ones to the far right hadnt been dug at that stage but now have.



Image 8
Photo of the main Soak Pit in front of the shed. With the aid of the digger I dug down 1.2 metres. I filled with larger stones on the bottom and then some smaller ones at the top level.



Image 9
Photo of two of the trenches leading to the Soak Pit.



Image 10
Photo of drain near patio. Not yet completed so there are blockages that I need to clear. Notice the massive curb stone I dug up which was just 1 inch under the surface. I have since dug up other similiar sized stones again just 1 inch under the surface.



Image 11
Another of the trenches again filled with water from the past 2 days rain. There is a blockage in the middle of it there acting as a dam for now.

slowburner

It's astonishing what builders will bury. I once had to get builders to remove tons, and I mean tons, of rubbish from what was to be a first class lawn and a central feature of a very large garden. I asked them how would they dispose of the detritus - "Ah, sure we'll bury it on the next site". :rolleyes:

Getting those kerb stones out will be a major help to your project PX.

Merch

Thats a grand digger, I had one myself, if it is the same, the tracks widen out, are they/do they on yours? I know what you mean about digging breaking your back,the digger is well worth it, was for me.
In the main soakage pit, whats the black (plastic)? are all the trenches lined with that? can water soak through the surrounding ground? or just into pits, then piping? do you fill the pipes with gravel too? so there is support in them/they dont collapse (or would collapsing happen?) or would that lead to them potentially getting blocked with finer material and then not draining, I've no experience at drainage myself but I'd be considering filling them with stones??

pleuraXeraphim

Merch wrote: »

Thats a grand digger, I had one myself, if it is the same, the tracks widen out, dooesn't look like they are on yours?
In the main soakage pit, whats the black (plastic)? are all the trenches lined with that? do you fill the pipes with gravel too? so there is support in them/they dont collapse (or would collapsing happen?)

Hey Merch

The digger tracks do widen on the digger I had. I only had it for the weekend.

The black material is a weed membrane which will allow water through but keeps out soil and weed roots, ensuring the the integrity of the soak pit. I'm not sure what type of membrane I have but it is a tough one. The various drains I have created will allow water to flow through them and will drain into the soak pits. Water surrrounding the soak pits will also be ablwe to flow straight into the pit.

The plan is to line all the trenches with this membrane. Then fill with pea gravel. Put in the 4 inch Wavin piping and then cover over with more pea gravel. Then wrap and seal with the membrane. After that I will put back in a few inches of top soil.

Merch

I'm doing a bit of digging myself, have come across tree roots from tree near me, I cut some of them off (mostly very small, about 1/2 inch max) any ideas if i can get anything to put (maybe paint) on them to limit/prevent growth in the direction of cut root?

Anatom

Hi pleuraXeraphim.

I've only just come across this thread and I have to say that you are doing an excellent job.

In my opinion, you were royally stiffed by your landscaper last year. From your initial photos, he took crap soil that hadn't even been screened and just lobbed it onto your existing surface - the stones and weeds he left are a disgrace.

As someone who's just finished my own lawn (I did get a rotovator in and spent weeks levelling it off having been stiffed by the guy who delivered topsoil full of rocks and other rubbish from the side of a road), I would highly recommend getting some sods in. I used a company in North Kildare (about €250 for 65-odd sq m) but you can buy sods in B&Q for about €3.00 each which would solve your weed problem and also take care of covering up your piping work.

Good luck with the rest of the job. You will never regret it!

pleuraXeraphim

Thanks for the encouragement Anatom. On Monday it nearly got the better of me when the rain came down and the place was a mess. Spending the bank holiday slaving through mucky trenches can be disheartening.

I will definitely consider going for the Lawn Sods. It will cost about €550 to do the whole back garden. So will need to budget for it as we need to get loads of plumbing done in the house as well. What would the B&Q Sods be like ? Would the quality be okay I wonder ?

Anatom

I hear ya re the mud. My kids have only been allowed on the grass in the last couple of weeks - it was just muck and dust since last September - and they don't know themselves!

Regarding the sods, you get what you pay for, as the saying goes. If you get a good supplier (and there are a few, just google them) in your area, the difference between their "budget" turf and a much higher-quality, weed-free, drought-resistent turf may not be that much and what you'll end up with will be a fantastic lawn which will completely make your garden.

The B&Q ones won't be brilliant, but they'll do the job. I'm actually going to buy a few next week to finish off a job on the front of my house, where the fool of a supplier dumped the 20 tons of topsoil last autumn...!

Good luck!

Anatom

BTW - €550 sounds like a lot for what you have there....

pleuraXeraphim

Anatom wrote: »

BTW - €550 sounds like a lot for what you have there....

I must measure the garden properly this evening. I measured it at about 120 Sq Metres. Maybe thats a bit out

slowburner

I think you might need 141 m2, based on your schematic above.
You have two rectangles - one at 14 x 50' (65 m2) and one at 32 x 30' (90 m2)
that's 155 m2 overall

Then subtract the patio (10' x 10'?) and the shed (8' x 6'?) at around 14m2

155-14 = 141 m2

Better off to have slightly too much than slightly too little - sods make a great compost.