Closing Galway airport

TheCosmicFrog

I hate it when people make purposely misleading thread titles to draw people in. Galway Airport is not closing until an official announcement is made.

Pure Sound

Closing places like Galway Airport down is very short sighted, we may save money in the short term but in the long term we will end up paying more than the money that is subsidised.

The staff working there will have to be made redundant which will be a high cost. The then unemployed staff will have no work so they will be relying on social welfare and the tax that those employees pay will also be lost. That is not even taking into account what the local economy will lose from its closure. It may also stop potential businesses from investing in Galway due to accessibility.

The government need to be protecting jobs to get out of the recession not reducing them. If people aren't working they have less to spend, it's as simple as that.

barone

ive heard nothing of it closing ?

has there been an official announcment?

leeroybrown

barone wrote: »

ive heard nothing of it closing ?

has there been an official announcment?

There hasn't been any official announcement. The thread title is a little misleading.

The government is reviewing transport spending and one of the areas up for discussion is the restriction of subventions to small regional airports. If the cabinet decides to reduce the level of subvention Galway Airport gets it'd likely have to close.

39steps

Moderator,
This thread should be retitled to: Question over future of Galway Airport.

There has been no announcement, it is very upsetting for people working at the airport, for Aer Arann, and others to see such a misleading thread title. People's livelihoods and economic future depend on the jobs at the airport.

liabhroidi

The airport has been good for some businesspeople. People should ask who benefits everytime you get a cup of tea, get a taxi, buy a newspaper there. Does the money go to the airport or its owners or to businesses set up by executives?

InchicoreDude

The staff working there will have to be made redundant which will be a high cost. The then unemployed staff will have no work so they will be relying on social welfare and the tax that those employees pay will also be lost. That is not even taking into account what the local economy will lose from its closure. It may also stop potential businesses from investing in Galway due to accessibility.

The government need to be protecting jobs to get out of the recession not reducing them. If people aren't working they have less to spend, it's as simple as that.

You can say this about any government job. Sure, maybe if the government just hired everybody on the dole, the social welfare bill wouldnt be as high! The point here is having people working in jobs that are contribute to the viability and profitability of an institution.

Personally I feel there are too many airports in Ireland. Certainly there should only be one between Knock & Galway. Ideally, the bigger one would be in Galway but thats a different argument.

dell1211

We Need Community wrote: »

Closing places like Galway Airport down is very short sighted, we may save money in the short term but in the long term we will end up paying more than the money that is subsidised.

The staff working there will have to be made redundant which will be a high cost. The then unemployed staff will have no work so they will be relying on social welfare and the tax that those employees pay will also be lost. That is not even taking into account what the local economy will lose from its closure. It may also stop potential businesses from investing in Galway due to accessibility.

The government need to be protecting jobs to get out of the recession not reducing them. If people aren't working they have less to spend, it's as simple as that.

What a strange economic theory, putting your theory into practice we should not lay off any civil servants because they will go on the dole and instead stay borrowing millions to pay their wages(which is exactly what the government is doing in order to pay galway airport staff).

I honestly cant see any multinational which is considering baseing themselves in galway having a requirement for an airport, and especially one that has very very few flights that make sense to business travellers. Shannon airport is only an hour down the road and dublin 2hours. Most cities in Europe have the exact same commute.

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

All three airports have public transport from galway.

Correct! (Galway City airport transfers by public transport)



And snubbleste, you forgot Connemara Airport <--

Chicken1

Noel Grealish was on the news tonight and he said he met with the Minister today and he was told by the Minister that he would not be changing his mind about Galway Airport, he does not have any more money to give.

Looking bad :mad::mad:

MOC1972

I think its simple if it can not say open or run without hand outs why should we put our tax money in.I seen this aer arann guy on the late late giving advice about our money problems FF and frank fahy are no longer
handing out easy money and someone will have to make cuts so try and remember what we are doing IMF money to keep non profitable airport open

Pure Sound

dell1211 wrote: »

What a strange economic theory, putting your theory into practice we should not lay off any civil servants because they will go on the dole and instead stay borrowing millions to pay their wages(which is exactly what the government is doing in order to pay galway airport staff).

I honestly cant see any multinational which is considering baseing themselves in galway having a requirement for an airport, and especially one that has very very few flights that make sense to business travellers. Shannon airport is only an hour down the road and dublin 2hours. Most cities in Europe have the exact same commute.

They are not paying the staffs wages they are subsidising the airport, there is a difference. My point is that overall the taxpayer will end up paying more if the airport closes, do you not understand that if people are not working they are costing the taxpayer’s money through the social welfare system, redundancy money, reduced tax paid, reduced revenue from businesses in the area and reduced tourism for the west. All closure of the airport would do is free up the subsidy money to pay the staff that have just been let go.

It is not as simple as close down the airport and all our problems will be solved, once again this government are targeting the wrong area, the subsidy for Galway airport is €1.2 million, it employees approx 35 people directly and who knows how many indirectly, then look at the AIB situation, they want the cap of 500k to be released so that they can hire one person, paying that person at the capped rate (which they are claiming isn’t enough) supplies almost half of the subsidy for approx 35 people. Which area would you cut? I know what I would choose.

Transport systems are often subsidised in other countries too, the London underground is subsidised €1 billion each year, your economic theory would suggest that that should be closed down too.

dell1211

We Need Community wrote: »

Transport systems are often subsidised in other countries too, the London underground is subsidised €1 billion each year, your economic theory would suggest that that should be closed down too.

193k passengers went through galway airport in 2009 versus 1 billion in the london underground in the same period........

Pure Sound

dell1211 wrote: »

193k passengers went through galway airport in 2009 versus 1 billion in the london underground in the same period........

Thats just bein petty, I was just using it as an example to show that these sectors are not always profitable even at that large a scale

wicorthered

We Need Community wrote: »

Thats just bein petty, I was just using it as an example to show that these sectors are not always profitable even at that large a scale

Don't think it's being petty. If 1 billion people use something it's obviously needed. Airport that serves 193,000 is that needed?? Public money should only be spent on things things that are needed.

Bosco boy

snubbleste wrote: »

Knock ↑
Dublin →
Shannon ↓

Hell
Connacht

Neworder79

Many on this thread want to jump for simple answers and blame. This hasn't come out of thin air. The reason it is coming to a head now is because the airport is not viable without subvention, has been in difficulty for a long time, needs immediate funding to cover losses and the Minister has refused to reverse the decision to cut the regional airports budget made by the last Government. He has just 600,000 budgeted for all regional airport operational subvention with further cuts in Transport budget due this year.

There are many reasons for the airports problems, some of the facts:

Costs
- Despite being a commercial business it required subvention every year
- The level of subvention was amongst the highest of all regionals and growing, not sustainable
- The airport became dependent on PSO, operational, capital and other local grants
- The airport was warned PSO would end for last 3 years by the previous minister
- The management made no obvious attempt to wean off subvention in boom years
- The only airline was also reliant on PSO subsidy to run it's operations, is ending routes after PSO cut
- 75% collapse in Dublin numbers and decline across all routes has lost large part of commercial revenue

Airport use
- Numbers dropped to 160,000 using the airport in 2010
- Dublin route accounted for over 40% of all passengers, major drop in traffic from July (meaning more subvention to cover shortfall next year)
- Hundreds of millions invested in new M6, train, express bus services, M17 still planned
- Travel times to Dublin below EU requirements for PSO
- Dublin airport just over 2hrs - national hub
- Shannon and Ireland West 1hrs offering multiple airlines, routes and better air infrastructure

The decision to end subvention is based on the findings of "Value for Money Review of Exchequer Expenditure on the Regional Airports", a report commissioned by the Minister for Transport after the "Board Snip" report recommended scrapping all regional airports funding.

Summary of value for money report findings re Galway:
- €200m spent on regionals in last 10 years.
- Galway required 23% of total operational funding since 2000
- Only 5% of Galway tourists came via the airport
- Too many overlapping airport catchments in West damaging viable airports
- Little potential for Galway given proximity to larger jet capable airports and growing operating costs
- IDA say 1 hour journey time is satisfactory to multinationals
- Quality of services as important as proximity to airport

Main recommendations:
- End PSO routes to Sligo, Galway, Knock, Derry
- Continue Donegal & Kerry PSO based on distance, poor access
- End operational subsidy to Galway & Sligo, review Waterford viability
- No further capital investment at Donegal, Galway & Sligo
- Limited operational funding to build critical mass at viable airports (Knock)
- Improve transport access to regional and state airports

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=277

Pure Sound

wicorthered wrote: »

Don't think it's being petty. If 1 billion people use something it's obviously needed. Airport that serves 193,000 is that needed?? Public money should only be spent on things things that are needed.

193000 is still a significant number of people for the size of Galway and the size of the airport, the subsidies aren’t exactly substantial in the overall picture either. Ireland owe €73,000,000,000 to the IMF, the €1300000 subsidy is minimal when you look at the bigger picture. Surely in the long run Ireland will lose out when considering all the things I have listed in my previous posts and revenue lost from fuel.

What about the staff in the airport who may lose their jobs over it, everyone is always about themselves and our taxes, closing down places like Galway Airport is screwing with peoples lives, if it were to happen to you, would you take one for team Ireland, I very much doubt it. None of the staff that work there have asked for this yet people on here seem to be willing for them to be let go. What have we become?

ben.schlomo

We Need Community wrote: »

What have we become?

We have become realistic, no longer living beyond our means. As pointed out above the airport is just not commercially viable, there is no need for it as evidenced in the numbers. Its just a fact of life like so many other businesses that close, if we continue to waste money in these black holes then why doesnt every business go looking for handouts from the government to keep the jobs they may shed? Jobs are lost and while this is very unfortunate and nobody wants that its just what happens.

FlashD

Bosco boy wrote: »

Let's close down everthing so! What are you ranting about fahey for and his frigging office, he got what he deserved and more will if this goes ahead!

Says the lad ranting :rolleyes: ......how do you know if the airport is closing when no else has a clue? There is a report recommending that the airport be closed. that's all.

The way I see it. you are looking for some ammo to start blaming the current government (in office 3 months now).

Frank Fahey is getting a fine fat pension paid by the taxperson for his dis-service to the country, I would hardly call that getting what he deserved.

Sponge Bob

Frank is still clocking up the expenses Air Miles. He emmmmm 'represents' us on the Council of Europe

Amazotheamazing

The west coast of Ireland simply has too many airports. Eventually some of them are going to have to go.

However, if they are to go, there should be real connectivity between the airports that survive. The Government has to build better roads to Shannon (well Gort) and to Knock. On a motorway Shannon would only be 40 minutes or so from Galway, which isn't much of a commute in fairness.

Bosco boy

FlashD wrote: »

Says the lad ranting :rolleyes: ......how do you know if the airport is closing when no else has a clue? There is a report recommending that the airport be closed. that's all.

The way I see it. you are looking for some ammo to start blaming the current government (in office 3 months now).

Frank Fahey is getting a fine fat pension paid by the taxperson for his dis-service to the country, I would hardly call that getting what he deserved.

If the funding is withdrawn then it simply cannot survive, hence it will close. Leo varadkar has stated that he does not envisage the government continuing to support the airport. You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about frank fahey but having a go at him won't solve this problem, maybe the local government reps could speak up for their city, people and airport!

dell1211

We Need Community wrote: »

193000 is still a significant number of people for the size of Galway and the size of the airport, the subsidies aren’t exactly substantial in the overall picture either. Ireland owe €73,000,000,000 to the IMF, the €1300000 subsidy is minimal when you look at the bigger picture. Surely in the long run Ireland will lose out when considering all the things I have listed in my previous posts and revenue lost from fuel.

What about the staff in the airport who may lose their jobs over it, everyone is always about themselves and our taxes, closing down places like Galway Airport is screwing with peoples lives, if it were to happen to you, would you take one for team Ireland, I very much doubt it. None of the staff that work there have asked for this yet people on here seem to be willing for them to be let go. What have we become?

You have such a parish politics view of the economy,
-If every town in the country said we are not laying off any workers based on your theory then where would that leave us?
-If every project which was not returning value for money insisted on keeping their funding based on your theory then where would that leave us?

As you said yourself Ireland owe 73bn(its actually about double this but anyway) and this is due to grow by another 20bn this year, how do you propose we eliminate this huge budget deficit if we are throwing 1.3m at various projects such as Galway airport. The cuts have to come from somewhere

I think that Neworder79 has summed it up perfectly in his post.

wicorthered

We Need Community wrote: »

What about the staff in the airport who may lose their jobs over it, everyone is always about themselves and our taxes, closing down places like Galway Airport is screwing with peoples lives, if it were to happen to you, would you take one for team Ireland, I very much doubt it. None of the staff that work there have asked for this yet people on here seem to be willing for them to be let go. What have we become?

I think that's all irrelevant. If Debenhams or Tesco were losing money and proving unsustainable, would you be in favour of the government propping them up to save jobs? The airport is not viable end of story. I'm sorry to see people lose their jobs but every failing business in Ireland can't be saved, where do you draw the line??

Robbo

I always saw it more as a shed that planes landed at than an airport.

Neworder79

Galwaybayfm radio have a show from the airport this morning. Guarantee none of the facts listed above will feature. But hyperbole and scare stories about business and tourism "devastation" from local councillors will. Local newspaper had an poll on it's homepage asking "should the airport be saved", which was pulled as soon as it showed a negative response.

No one involved wants to deal with the facts. But Padraig Ó Céidigh seems to have come to the same conclusion as the minister, saying on RnaG yesterday that:

..motorway and train connections between Galway, and the close proximity of Shannon airport to Galway airport means that Galway's case for funding was not as strong...
Ó Céidigh said that companies would take the air connection into account, but it would not be the determining factor when deciding upon where to set up.

dicknorris

Bosco boy wrote: »

Thanks Enda, Eamon and Leo, as someone once said " to hell or to Connacht " where's the outrage from our local elected reps who's parties are in power? Silence is all I hear!

Fine gael have a good record in relation to regional airports remember Jim Mitchell "foggy boggy" statement about Knock Airport look at knock today

Robbo

dicknorris wrote: »

Fine gael have a good record in relation to regional airports remember Jim Mitchell "foggy boggy" statement about Knock Airport look at knock today

How much is it exactly that they mug all departing passengers for in Knock?

chickencurry02

No business or airport should be subsidised by the government. The strongest will survive, the ones that cant should close thats business.

I hear that all the american companies say that its vital. If it is why dont 10 of them pay €150,000.00 each thats 1.5 million to keep it going instead of whinging, they are making massive profits here.