Closing Galway airport

celty

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Aer Arann will be gutted. They wanted this decision made for them. Now it is possible that they will be the ones who end up effectively closing the place. Maybe they will also now extend their tenure through the winter though.

If Varadkar keeps his word he effectively announced the closure of Galway Airport today. It will never be self sustaining - rubbish facility, wrong location. However, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up in the same situation in six months time with the government giving in to more pressure and funding for another year. And so on until we get too close to the next election for any politician to have the guts to pull the plug.

Don't worry, the great Fidelma will save it. The woman who described herself as the 'senior' Fine Gael candidate in Galway West (whatever that means, the voters didn't think so) is on the ball and God help Minister Leo if he dares to cross her at the end of the year.

I feel sorry for the 62 or so people who may lose their jobs at the start of 2012, but this airport is a joke, with its short runway that can't take jets, right beside a significant road, which can't be expanded.

In fact, transport infrastructure in this country is a joke. A priest in Mayo managed to build an airport in a bog when we already had Shannon.

I'm against an awful lot of Government cut-backs, I think it's criminal that us ordinary people are paying off the crimes of bankers, but I can't see how Galway Airport could be sustainable when Shannon, with its US links, is only an hour down the road.

And I'm also sick of people like Eamon O Cuiv and Mike Crowe somehow suggesting that this Government is anti-Galway, when it was their party which bankrupted this rotten little Banana Republic.

Chicken1

One thing I could never understand was the closing off to the public of the Bar and food area, I used to love going out on a Sunday for a bowl of soup and sittiing down near a window when the place was busy, dropping a passanger off now you cant go in for a chat and a cuppa surely they should have left the area open to the public they would make some money out of the place. Its a disaster area out there now

Neworder79

Galwaybay FM covering the story this morning with the usual level of in-depth analyses...

MD Joe Walsh starts every sentence with "the minister". No interest in restructure his business "not possible in time remaining" despite being given extra funding space until 2012.

Eamon O'Cuív wriggling out of his Governments past decisions, saying the airport is "vital" because:

"there are 4 airports on the much shorter East coast" - (counting Northern Ireland I presume)

"Waterford not viable... back to the sea, closer to Cork and Dublin" - (incorrect but facts count in this debate)

"200km from West Connemara to Dublin" (No mention of €1.1billion M6, or M18)

"West Connemara landlocked by lakes" - (No mention of O'Cuíves the €7m airport built in the bog outside Clifden and on Inishbofin in 2008 which still lies closed with big X across the tarmac)

Wompa1

This airport is "part of us all, part of us all, part of us all, part of us all, part of us all, part of us all"

GalwayAnnie

I used to use Galway Airport a lot but now with motorway link to Dublin and Go/City Link bus service, I tend to use the bus in lieu of Galway - Dublin flight, also less chance of getting diverted to Shannon as happened me one night. Shannon is now way handier to get to than it used to be, unfortunately Galway Airport is a victim of Ireland's improve infrastructure.

I don't think it is a matter of anti galway policies just basic logic and financial sustainability.

Chicken1

Chicken1 wrote: »

One thing I could never understand was the closing off to the public of the Bar and food area, I used to love going out on a Sunday for a bowl of soup and sittiing down near a window when the place was busy, dropping a passanger off now you cant go in for a chat and a cuppa surely they should have left the area open to the public they would make some money out of the place. Its a disaster area out there now

The passengers used to hang around the cafe until the last minute before going through security causing queues and delays.

Now the passengers go straight through security in a steady flow and hang around inside ready to board.

Cosmo Kramer

The actual press release certainly reads differently to FHE's spincycle version from yesterday. The Airport has six months to go.

Neworder79 wrote: »

MD Joe Walsh starts every sentence with "the minister". No interest in restructure his business "not possible in time remaining" despite being given extra funding space until 2012.

They could fund it until 2022 and it still wouldn't be a viable business, never was, never will be, and he knows this, hence his constant argument towards subsidies. Last weeks three year business plan could not have been even close to being credible.

?Cee?view

Anyone know if the Airport will remain viable for General Aviation if/when the government handout is lost?

Esroh

Aer Aerann is now Air Stobbart. Do you really think they need Galway airport. No way would they have even spend a cent if threat to Galway was something they were worried about

the realpigiron

Galway Airport going out of business will be no loss in my view. Sure they'll be a loss of direct jobs, but i don't think it will have a hugely adverse affect on tourism. Roads to Dublin and Shannon are excellent now.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

The irony of hearing Michael Ring defending the closure on Mid West Radio yeaterday... If this was done when Fianna Fail were in government he'd be up in arms over the neglect of the west of Ireland.

ben.schlomo

churchview wrote: »

Anyone know if the Airport will remain viable for General Aviation if/when the government handout is lost?

It will stay as a general private airport, as in Galway Flying club etc.

leeroybrown

ben.schlomo wrote: »

It will stay as a general private airport, as in Galway Flying club etc.

I imagine that will ultimately be the case but the question I'd have is how that will be handled as part of the wind down of the airport. Will it be able to shrink it's operations back cleanly to that of a small private airfield without debts, redundancy payments, etc placing it in an unviable position where liquidation/examinership/receivership might be involved?

dec25532

Shuda moved to Oranmore 12 years ago when the opportunity presented itself. It would have been Government backed, a runway for jets and a lot of european destinations. This thread would not be here now if that had happened. The board of Galway Airport are to blame to halting its progress over the years.

Bosco boy

I just hope this isn't the thin end of the wedge for transport projects in Galway and the west, it seems like our high profile newly elected TD's have hidden under a rock on this one, have we any representatives now to stand up for Galway and the west! The future looks bleak indeed!

ben.schlomo

Bosco boy wrote: »

I just hope this isn't the thin end of the wedge for transport projects in Galway and the west, it seems like our high profile newly elected TD's have hidden under a rock on this one, have we any representatives now to stand up for Galway and the west! The future looks bleak indeed!

no point standing up for something which isn't worth standing up for. I would assume thats why they may not have been as vocal as the FHE's of this world thinking they have saved it.

Neworder79

I just hope this isn't the thin end of the wedge for transport projects in Galway and the west, it seems like our high profile newly elected TD's have hidden under a rock on this one, have we any representatives now to stand up for Galway and the west! The future looks bleak indeed!

Sadly far worse to come, we have to be realistic in expectations. We're spending 20bn more than we take in even before servicing our debt mountain. €150m in transport cuts due this year. We can't borrow at 11%+ while on the edge of default. The EU/IMF are micro managing our accounts and can redline any capital spending, especially what they may view as marginal needs in "peripheral" regions. So not a lot local TDs can do other than self-serving finger pointing. If by some miracle PPP projects like the M17 go through we'll be very lucky.

no point standing up for something which isn't worth standing up for. I would assume thats why they may not have been as vocal as the FHE's of this world thinking they have saved it.

Indeed, if our wondrous reps had prioratised and focused on the real strategic needs of the region in the good years rather than throwing vote buying grants at every white elephant like the WRC and regional airports, we would have first built the Atlantic Corridor, city bypass, double tracked rail into Galway, or decent bus services.

Those projects are "critical" and "vital" to people and businesses on the grounds basic needs into the future, scare words our reps only seem to use when fighting to resurrect dodos.

mayfly1

The reality is that the west has too many airports to maintain, and the stated government policy of continuing to support two main ones that can cater for international jet traffic and that are viable is the right decision in the longer term. What goverment needs to focus on is completing the road and rail infrastructure along the atlantic corridor to ensure that both Shannon and Knock are 45 minutes from Galway, and in Knock's case that Sligo and south Donegal is also accessable in shorter times. Likewise the western rail corridor should be also completed when funds permit to provide a direct rail link up along the western corridor, from Limerick to Sligo taking in the airports. While one does sympathise with Galway's issues, I'm sure the management have been working behind the scene and talking to all the major businessess and multinationals that they say use the airport and asking them for investment funding thet need to keep the airport viable.This is also what it looks like the Minister expects to happen and is why he is providing short term funding..

Robbo

mayfly1 wrote: »

The reality is that the west has too many airports to maintain, and the stated government policy of continuing to support two main ones that can cater for international jet traffic and that are viable is the right decision in the longer term. What goverment needs to focus on is completing the road and rail infrastructure along the atlantic corridor to ensure that both Shannon and Knock are 45 minutes from Galway, and in Knock's case that Sligo and south Donegal is also accessable in shorter times. Likewise the western rail corridor should be also completed when funds permit to provide a direct rail link up along the western corridor, from Limerick to Sligo taking in the airports. While one does sympathise with Galway's issues, I'm sure the management have been working behind the scene and talking to all the major businessess and multinationals that they say use the airport and asking them for investment funding thet need to keep the airport viable.This is also what it looks like the Minister expects to happen and is why he is providing short term funding..

You really need to read westtip's posts over on Commuting & Transport about the passenger figures on the newly reopened section of railway from Ennis-Athenry. We're talking 14 passengers a train at a subvention level that would make booking them a taxi seem more sensible.

The less said about the sections of Victorian tramway north of Tuam the better.

Neworder79

Robbo wrote: »

You really need to read westtip's posts over on Commuting & Transport about the passenger figures on the newly reopened section of railway from Ennis-Athenry. We're talking 14 passengers a train at a subvention level that would make booking them a taxi seem more sensible.

The less said about the sections of Victorian tramway north of Tuam the better.

Unfortunately that will be the next battleground, with the usual noisy mob of TDs and fantasists hijacking the airwaves, whinging, cawing and scraping and spinning figures. Calling the Government "anti-westh" and depicting doom day vistas with no reference to the reality that there's no critical population along the northern section now.

It may be a project for the future, and one day linking the airports may make sense. Politicians in the West need to cop on and pick their battles for the times we're in. WRC should never have been top of the priority list, road access IS critical to sustain our export businesses. All these pressure campaigns do is deflect from the real problems and damage the case for investment in regional infrastructure.

?Cee?view

mayfly1 wrote: »

Likewise the western rail corridor should be also completed when funds permit

You're dead right. My father in law loves to be able to take the train to Limerick. It's a great day out for him and his cronies. He tells me it's a great success. :rolleyes: For some reason he seemed a bit bothered when I mentioned to him that he and his pals don't have to pay (is that the only thing CJH will be remembered for?), and other than them and a few others, very few people use it. It's a disgrace that this was ever built and in Galway O'Brolchain's support for it was noted by many people who didn't vote for him.

Now if the money hadn't been wasted on the WRC, how long more could Galway Airport have been kept open for?

Robbo

churchview wrote: »

Now if the money hadn't been wasted on the WRC, how long more could Galway Airport have been kept open for?

€106 million in construction costs plus the ~€2.5m yearly subvention would have gone some distance but priest led infrastructure has a glorious history in the Wesht. From Bishop Browne to Monsignor Horan and now Father McGreill, there's a real edifice complex at work.

?Cee?view

Robbo wrote: »

€106 million in construction costs plus the ~€2.5m yearly subvention would have gone some distance but priest led infrastructure has a glorious history in the Wesht. From Bishop Browne to Monsignor Horan and now Father McGreill, there's a real edifice complex at work.

Jesus, those figures are crazy!

We clearly need the church on side. Maybe we should get Casey back from his retirement/exile? Knocknacarra Church is sometimes known as Casey's last erection, so we could get him onside to build the Galway Bypass and Galway International Airport (with a runway fit for an A380). They could then collectively be named....let's see....Casey's Last Stand?

Sponge Bob

It won't be much of a battle , Westtip seems to have told the Irish Times who ran an article on it. 14 persons per train, average, and never mind the phantom pensioner who gets on in Ardrahan and off in Gort according to west on track.

Fun starts here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055766866&page=113

Irish Times article a few posts along.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0610/1224298690086.html

Figures released yesterday by Irish Rail for the route’s first 12 months show that 53,187 passengers travelled on the the new €106 million Ennis-Athenry service.

The numbers fall far short of the anticipated 100,000 in its business case for reopening the line.

1000 a week or so , 10 trains each way a day or so. 1000/70 = 14 passengers per train. You could fit 3 trains on one express bus!

€2.5m annual subvention ( that includes the Ennis Limerick bit which is more viable) = €50,000 a week.

€50,000 a week for 1000 passengers = €50 per passenger (€100 return) but once you add on the higher Limerick Ennis traffic it really amounts to a mere €30-35 a passenger journey.....or so. Lets hope numbers have not declined since then as the subvention is the same.

And it goes nowhere near Shannon Airport!

ScumLord

I wonder will the runway be completely abandoned? May make a good top gear style race track for locals.

mike kelly

there was a lot of messing going on there. staff were very inefficent and unhelpful to customers

mayfly1

Hi all, from reading the threads, I'm confused, could someone clarify if the real level of subvention needed to keep this airport open is actually well north €3m per year, given that €1.7m subvention is being asked for the remaining 5 months of 2011 alone....and I guess this is what the minister is concened about. When the pso's go, then rough cuts pax numbers will drop to say 80,000 in 2012, or 40,000 outbound or €400k income from the new fee, add say another €600k income from other sources would result in a self generated income of c. €1m to run the airport, which employs over 60 people and has overheads to cover etc, and loans ro repay...this is what's really at the root of the issue...

Neworder79

Hi all, from reading the threads, I'm confused, could someone clarify if the real level of subvention needed to keep this airport open is actually well north €3m per year, given that €1.7m subvention is being asked for the remaining 5 months of 2011 alone....and I guess this is what the minister is concened about. When the pso's go, then rough cuts pax numbers will drop to say 80,000 in 2012, or 40,000 outbound or €400k income from the new fee, add say another €600k income from other sources would result in a self generated income of c. €1m to run the airport, which employs over 60 people and has overheads to cover etc, and loans ro repay...this is what's really at the root of the issue...

I think the 1.7m is for the full year though they have put out several figures recently. The airport and local TDs are being very disingenuous by simplifying the debate down to future OPEX (operating) subvention needs to suit their media campaign and make the DOT look like the baddie "closing the airport for the sake of €1m".

From what's publicly available Galway is down:
PSO fees - €3.2m (July 2010 to July 2011)
OPEX grant - €1.7m (€1.8 2010, airport propose a drop to 1.2 by 2014)
CAPEX grants - €0.9m (average for last 5 years)
Other Support - (emergency funding, local enterprise, county and tourism & marketing grants etc.)

As you point out with the PSO alone is accounting for somewhere around 20% of 160,000 current passengers this year (down from 40%) and ending July, that leaves about 64,000 paying the €10 departure fee which would yield €640,000 by my reckoning (if numbers traveling have held up). However we don't know how much they make on commercial charges, ancillary revenue, or what level of cost saving have/could been implemented.

the realpigiron

dec25532 wrote: »

Shuda moved to Oranmore 12 years ago when the opportunity presented itself. It would have been Government backed, a runway for jets and a lot of european destinations. This thread would not be here now if that had happened. The board of Galway Airport are to blame to halting its progress over the years.

Whereabouts in Oranmore was it planned to be built?

galwayrush

the realpigiron wrote: »

Whereabouts in Oranmore was it planned to be built?

Land owned by the dep. of defence, at the back of Galway Metal.