What would you do if this was your child?

DublinWriter

Looks like my class in 1977.

Oh, by the way, Mr. O'Hallaron, if I ever see you in public again, I will kill you and happily spend my time in the 'joy.

christina_x

Couldn't finish watching it. It's just awful. That man deserves to die roaring. They are kids, and as far as I got the two little girls were shaking.

iguana

Are most people on this thread mid 30s and over? Corporal punishment was banned by the Department of Education in 1982. Any teacher who physically chastised a student from that point onward was committing gross misconduct and should have been investigated and suspended/fired.

Dudess

Going by anecdotes anyway, plenty of it was going on well after 1982.

RachaelVO

iguana wrote: »

Are most people on this thread mid 30s and over? Corporal punishment was banned by the Department of Education in 1982. Any teacher who physically chastised a student from that point onward was committing gross misconduct and should have been investigated and suspended/fired.

Eh, it's not that. I was NEVER hit in school, and I'm in my 30's. My mam always told us, that if a teacher EVER raised a hand to us we were to walk out and come home. It never arose though.

I think from my point of view (and many others, whether your 40, 30 or 20), is that we are coming from the point of view that we are parents. I seen MY children in that video. If ANYONE hit my kids like that I'd destroy them in one way or another, and I'd make sure I had a fecking alibi! I don't care whether people may feel I'm overreacting or not, they are my children, and in my care!

Ghost Buster

busyliving wrote: »

I understand there is the potential for it to be abused. I'm saying we should return to the old days were it was abused. A rap across the knuckles with a wooden ruler, I don’t mean punches being thrown or anything like that. I'm not saying introduce it for very young kids. More like introduce it in secondary school level.

Ummmm. Did you mean that ???

iguana

RachaelVO wrote: »

Eh, it's not that. I was NEVER hit in school, and I'm in my 30's. My mam always told us, that if a teacher EVER raised a hand to us we were to walk out and come home. It never arose though.

I think from my point of view (and many others, whether your 40, 30 or 20), is that we are coming from the point of view that we are parents. I seen MY children in that video. If ANYONE hit my kids like that I'd destroy them in one way or another, and I'd make sure I had a fecking alibi! I don't care whether people may feel I'm overreacting or not, they are my children, and in my care!

I didn't mean that, just that so many people are saying they were hit in school and are even referring to it happening after it was banned. I'm just surprised by it as it was made clear to me as a small child that it was not allowed, that I was not to submit to it and to tell my parents immediately if it happened. I was in 3 primary schools from 1982-1991 and I never once heard of a child being hit in any of them. And I went to a city secondary with kids from all over the place and I never heard of any of them being hit at any point in school. Corporal punishment seemed like something that had been banned forever, not just the year I started school.

Flojo

My mother has told me horrible stories about a teacher she had. Mental and physical abuse that has affected her to this day.
If it was my child, I'd have to make sure no one was around and that I was pretty certain it happened. Last thing I'd want is to end up with a criminal record. I'd be batshít angry but I'd also be smart about it.

Nodin

iguana wrote: »

........... Corporal punishment seemed like something that had been banned forever, not just the year I started school.

...which is why we who are longer in the tooth feel compelled to point out that it wasn't. One day hopefully the Egyptians will be in the same position.

iguana

Nodin wrote: »

...which is why we who are longer in the tooth feel compelled to point out that it wasn't. One day hopefully the Egyptians will be in the same position.

Fair enough from that perspective, but there are a number of posters talking about it happening after it was banned as if that was the norm. It was banned close to 30 years ago.

For reference;

This regulation was circulated by John Boland, Minister for Education, Republic of Ireland to all schools on January 26, 1982, and took effect almost immediately, on February 1, 1982.

1. Teachers should have a lively regard for the improvement and general welfare of their pupils, treat them with kindness combined with firmness and should aim at governing them through their affections and reason and not by harshness and severity. Ridicule, sarcasm or remarks likely to undermine a pupil's self-confidence should not be used in any circumstances.
2. The use of corporal punishment is forbidden.
3. Any teacher who contravenes sections (1) or (2) of this rule will be regarded as guilty of conduct unbefitting a teacher and will be subject to severe disciplinary action.

Capt'n Midnight

feelingstressed wrote: »

Ministry of Social Solidarity :rolleyes:

Sounds like something from 1984 novel or some backward country with a propaganda division

We have the Criminal Courts of Justice

HellFireClub

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We have the Criminal Courts of Justice

We also have the most airy fairy judicary possibly on the planet, how many times have you read about people in this country being prosecuted for viewing/storing pornographic images of children and them getting a suspended sentence or found not guilty because of some stupid legal technicality???

If I personally came to find out that someone was harming my kids in the manner that is the subject of thie thread, there is only one thing I know for sure, criminal justice system or not, it's the last time they would harm any child. I'd be f*ked if I was going to trust the criminal justice system, especially in this dump, with the task of sorting out the matter on my behalf.

Dudess

RachaelVO wrote: »

Eh, it's not that. I was NEVER hit in school, and I'm in my 30's. My mam always told us, that if a teacher EVER raised a hand to us we were to walk out and come home. It never arose though.

I think from my point of view (and many others, whether your 40, 30 or 20), is that we are coming from the point of view that we are parents. I seen MY children in that video. If ANYONE hit my kids like that I'd destroy them in one way or another, and I'd make sure I had a fecking alibi! I don't care whether people may feel I'm overreacting or not, they are my children, and in my care!

Iguana simply said she was struck by all these examples of corporal punishment that took place after 1982 despite it being banned that year - I can't fathom what else you think she could have meant that caused you to behave so confrontationally towards her. And obviously a parent would lose it if anyone hit their kid(s) but you don't have to be a parent to see how awful it is.

aidan24326

Dudess wrote: »

Some older schoolkids are little cunts and absolutely crying out for a smack - however I do not think that is anyone's jurisdiction but that of their parent(s). I think it should be easier to suspend/expel troublesome kids though.

No doubt there are troublesome kids who could well do with a clip round the ear or a smack on the arse, but this teacher wasn't just punishing unruly kids, he was bashing all of them like it wss some kind of daily ritual.

Dudess

I know.

later12

I was never slapped in school but I was in second class in 1994 and I would say slaps were handed out to about two thirds of the class on a regular basis. It was a small, three-teacher school. The teacher was a local woman who apparently had some personal problems and although a few parents objected to it, many seemed to have condoned it.

Later in fifth and sixth class our principal often showed us blackthorn sticks with which he used to beat unruly pupils in the 60s and 70s, and had no shame about it although he accepted, I think, that he had been wrong to be so violent. He was very honest, and understood that he was known by men of my Dad's generation as a particularly brutal teacher.

This was in a Church of Ireland school, by the way, so just illustrates that not all of it was long ago and not all of it was perpetrated by Catholic clerics. In many respects the social and educational history of Ireland is simply a very violent one.

DubPsycho

feelingstressed wrote: »

And so it begins

Posters see violence and get understandably angry.

And the solution it seems is to dream up other inventive methods of violence, a beating every hour or take a hammer to their fingers..

And what would you do? File a compliant?

southsiderosie

dark crystal wrote: »

I'm pretty distressed after seeing that video.

He claims to be using discipline on the kids, but from what I could see, there was no bad behaviour on their parts at all.

He is clearly a sadist, who derives much enjoyment from inflicting pain on the little ones in his charge.

I noticed he seemed to take even greater pleasure in beating the little girls.

My heart goes out to those poor children....can only imagine the fear they feel going to school every day

That was the thing that was so sickening - he seemed to be enjoying himself. And he was much harsher with the girls who were obviously terrified - the one little girl wouldn't even pick up her exercise book. Sad stuff.

kelle

HellFireClub wrote: »

That was my point, only as recently as the late 1980's, I can recall lads I was in class with being giving serious hidings in class, I can specifically recall one poor lad, (who since committed suicide), being regularly picked up off the ground by the teacher pinching the cheeks of his face and lifting him up in the air by the cheecks of his own face and him screaming in pain in front of a terrified class of primary school kids. Kneeling on pencils was another fav, and standing up the front corner of the class with your arms outstretched holding books and if you dropped your hands due to the weight of the books, you would get an absolute hiding.

I remember one lad getting battered in class one morning and I mean this guy was bleeding after the hiding he took, and the reason for the assault was because he didn't have his homework done and when the big trial was held into this in the class, it emerged that the poor kid didn't have an exercise book, and when an enquiry was held into why that was so, the lads dad was unemployed and they couldn't afford to get the kids copybooks for school...

And for that he got bet for half an hour, f*cked over desks and chairs in the class and everything.

All I'm saying is let's not be too smug here back on Craggy Island because our own parents were all aware of this up 'til as recently as the 80's and were to be often found wanting to confront it I think...

I read this yesterday and was so overcome I just had to get up and walk away from the PC. All I can say is what an absolute f**kin b*st*rd and I hope he rots in hell.

I would hope there is a God and that the poor guy who committed suicide is at peace, and the other guy found happiness in some form or other - he probably worried about his parents not making ends meet with no money coming in, then being terrified about school every day.

I know I dreaded primary school every day, because I never knew what mood my teacher would be in - but she was a pussycat (well, a wicked wild one) compared to the rottweiler you had! Parents knew what they were like, but just laughed it off and to this day still insist they were excellent teachers :eek:

I know AH is not the place to get emotional, but I can't help imagining these lads could be my son - who thankfully finds it hard to believe punishment like that was once dished out.

Ghost Buster

Twould be interesting to know which of us are parents of young kids and which of us are not. I would suspect that those who are horrified at this are parents and the 'arrah some kids need a good slap' squad are not.
???

Nodin

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Twould be interesting to know which of us are parents of young kids and which of us are not. I would suspect that those who are horrified at this are parents and the 'arrah some kids need a good slap' squad are not.
???

I wouldn't put money on it.

Ghost Buster

Nodin wrote: »

I wouldn't put money on it.

Well. I am and have two well behaved kids who have never been slapped and have never needed it. A quick glare from Daddy does the trick:D
Maybe Im being nieve but I would like to think that most parents can control their kids with out resorting to beating them and so would be shocked at the video posted.

kelle

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Twould be interesting to know which of us are parents of young kids and which of us are not. I would suspect that those who are horrified at this are parents and the 'arrah some kids need a good slap' squad are not.
???

Even before I had children, I looked back at the punishment we endured and hated my teachers for what they did - it was just like what the teacher in that video did.

Kiera

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Twould be interesting to know which of us are parents of young kids and which of us are not. I would suspect that those who are horrified at this are parents and the 'arrah some kids need a good slap' squad are not.
???

Well you'd be wrong then. I'm so saddened by that video and i dont have any kids.

Tigger

i dont have kids but i have nieces

they all have my card and know that if anybody threatens thewm or hurts them they are to say " this is my uncle he would enjoy punishing you for upseting me"

Ghost Buster

Kiera wrote: »

Well you'd be wrong then. I'm so saddened by that video and i dont have any kids.

Whoops. I should have said "The majority". Didnt mean to generalise.

up for anything

Watching that video I didn't see any element of discipline in what he was doing. More some sort of nasty paedophiliac sexual sadism. :mad: He barely scanned their copy books before he'd hit them so I very much doubt it was anything that they had gotten wrong in their homework. It seemed very much like a ritual punishment. Also he only hit the boys once, whether that was because they didn't pull their hands away so it wasn't much fun I don't know, but he really liked tormenting those little girls.

I got the ruler/cane three times in my primary school life. 3 strokes across each palm each time. The anticipation was worse than the strokes. We did the ritual spitting on our palms and pulling out a head hair and laying it across the palms of our hands because the spitting was supposed to make it hurt less and the hair supposedly would break the cane. Neither worked.

The worst corporal punishment I saw was at the primary school in Freshford, Co Kilkenny, for my last year, where the 6th class teacher/also headmaster of the time would put the offending boy standing beside his (the teacher's desk), go behind him and take a running kick to his arse which in some cases resulted in the lad landing at back of the classroom without touching the ground. That had to hurt. Man U missed a brilliant striker in him. With us girls he'd just use sarcasm to strip us of dignity and confidence.

padr81

If that was my child I would kill that man dead. Stone cold dead. Scumbag, in fact just watching that makes me wish he lived nearby. Scumbag.

later12

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We have the Criminal Courts of Justice

What's wrong with that? I heard a minor outrage about this on Joe Duffy once (I was driving, can't switch radio stations) and it was probably the only time I wanted to pull over and talk to Joe.

Criminal is used in its title as an adjective to describe the particular court's specialty... just like criminal law is the law applied therein, or similar to how we have the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

fonecrusher1

I'd thump the living sh!T out of him, thats what i'd do. But not drunk, i'd do it sober.

Dudess

kelle wrote: »

Even before I had children, I looked back at the punishment we endured and hated my teachers for what they did - it was just like what the teacher in that video did.

Yeah, I realise being a parent gives one a new perspective, but I don't see the necessity of "As a parent, I think beating children is wrong" type stuff. As if it wasn't possible to see this before becoming a parent...

HellFireClub

later10 wrote: »

What's wrong with that? I heard a minor outrage about this on Joe Duffy once (I was driving, can't switch radio stations) and it was probably the only time I wanted to pull over and talk to Joe.

Criminal is used in its title as an adjective to describe the particular court's specialty... just like criminal law is the law applied therein, or similar to how we have the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

We don't have a criminal justice system, we have a "sure I'll have what you're having yourself" justice system, a system that accommodates a situation whereby a circuit court judge of all people, cannot be held to account to the Irish state for being in possession of a computer containing images of child pornography, because some little beaurocratic public sector box on a file somewhere, wasn't ticked in relation to the warrant used to seize the equipment. So on we go, and we tolerate this. Then we discover that he cannot even be removed from his postition, he could have been up in his judges chambers downloading child pornography, he is untouchable and the situation then remains the same to this day, and for the avoidance of doubt, the judge retired on a full pension...

But if you think this is bad, guess what?!? I could probably be sued in the High Court and held to a charge of liable for hitting the "Submit Reply" button at the end of this page, for posting this opinion on here...

Before anyone looks down on me for my position on summary justice, please have a think about the above...

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Curtin

stoneill

Brings me back - Brother Francis and The Deeler in the 70's. dishing out "Six of the best" for the most minor infractions. However sadistic he was, the other kids with their advice of putting your hands onto the hot radiators to numb the pain were on a different level. And what would happen if you went home and told your parents? You'd get another scalping from them. Makes you wonder how you kept going to school.

I'm just grateful that those days are over for kids going to school now and that corporal punishment is banned.




(Just re-read this and it sounds like I'm still in school 40 years later)

fonecrusher1

I dunno i think i'd just clobber him face to face if it came to it.:D

bernyh

Watchin him grab that little girl by the hair and repeatedly beat her, I actually said outloud to myself "I'd f***ing kill him!" which in all God's honesty I am absolutely sure I would. If anyone did anything to my little girl I know I would either die protecting her or spend the rest of my life in prison....... I am physically disgusted at seeing that. Thankfully in my school time physical punishment was already gone how dare any person do that to innocent little children. Animal!!!

loobylou

Really interesting reading peoples reactions to this, ie I'd kill him, break his fingers, beat him hourly, etc etc.
When I was in school in the 60's and 70's this was routine. We were beaten like that in class daily. I don't for one minute think that my parents loved me any less than I love my own children now but they (and everyone else) KNEW that this is what happened in our schools. Yet they said and did nothing about it and nor did the parents of any of my classmates. It was simply the norm, probably as it is in Egypt today.

The Left Hand Of God

For shame on the people who see violence as an answer to violence.

For shame

Truley

That was a really horrific video but I guess like other posters have said corporal punishment is still rife across most of the world and even in Ireland. My boyfriend is only in his late 20s and his father used to beat him with a leather belt, and according to him it wasn't that unusual for the time. You would be very surprised at the amount of people who still condone this sort of thing and would like to see it reinstated, especially Irish people. I think this is largely due to rose tinted glasses and forgetting what it feels like to be a young child. Seeing something like this played out on film is unnerving but can also serve as a wake up call.

If corporal punishment ever gets reinstated in this country my kids will not set foot inside a classroom that's for sure.

padr81

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

For shame on the people who see violence as an answer to violence.

For shame

Theres violence and theres violence. Any person who abuses a child in any way including that scumbag deserve to be locked in a room with said childs family who are handed baseball bats, golf clubs and bricks.

People do these things cause they get away with it, or if convicted (in Ireland anyway) get a short sentence in a semi-holiday home which is halved if they behave inside.

Kumejima

padr81 wrote: »

If that was my child I would kill that man dead. Stone cold dead. Scumbag, in fact just watching that makes me wish he lived nearby. Scumbag.

He hits your child, you feel you're entitled to kill him?
IBy the same reasoning wouldn't his da then be perfectly justified to murder you, kill your kids and wipe out your extended family?

Seems only fair