**Spoilers** Series 6, Episode 6 - "The Almost People"

pixelburp

First episode of series 6 I'm a little ambivalent about seeing. Still enthusiastic about the show, don't get me wrong, but last week's first-episode was distinctly muted, bordering on the mediocre. I suspect even the cast knew it because it was all so .. flat

Anywhoo, main point of interest tomorrow, for me, is going to be how the two Doctors interact. And how we're going to lead into the mid-season finale; I presume we'll end on something big - possibly this Ganger Doctor will have something to do with it.

Also, it appears most of us assume the duplicate's the one we see get shot back in episode 1. I imagine Moffat's up to something though.

A clippington to peruse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP2iu_YgUOE

Yahew

Certainly room for humour, there.

Killer_banana

I wasn't too excited about this episode until Matt Smith said in an interview that

it ends on a 'whopper' of a cliffhanger about one character.I'm guessing it's Amy but who knows.

Killer_banana

Holy. ****.

Whoever called futuristic midwife a few weeks back well done.

Short post but I have no clue what to say after that...except how did both Doctor's have screwdrivers?

off.the.walls

Holy ****. I was not expecting that to happen at all!

Stark

Ending was spectacular. Rest of the episode was a bit meh. More or less a rehash of last year's Silurians episode and the sacrifice bit towards the end was extremely contrived.

Basq

Other than the cliffhanger, I preferred last week's episode.

I knew well the shoes would play a part in the conclusion of the episode somehow or another.. why, oh why, did they have to keep reinforcing the fact they had different shoes throughout? :mad:

The sacrifice was very contrived, and felt a tad lazy.

Still, the scenes with the two Doctors were very entertaining (showed me how much energy Matt Smith puts into his performance when the two Doctors together were electric!) and I did love that little cliffhanger.

Bizarre to see Rory move away from Amy at the Doctor's request.. felt very "unRory-like" but the Doctor's tone did seemed to establish the seriousness of the situation.

Fantastic in parts.. but mediocre for the most part!

EDIT: Was anything else hugely disappointed to see the lack of a 'Coming Soon' at the end of the episode?! Presuming the second half of the season will be September.. it's gonna be a long 3 - 4 month wait!

Killer_banana

Basq wrote: »

Bizarre to see Rory move away from Amy at the Doctor's request.. felt very "unRory-like" but the Doctor's tone did seemed to establish the seriousness of the situation.

EDIT: Was anything else hugely disappointed to see the lack of a 'Coming Soon' at the end of the episode?! Presuming the second half of the season will be September.. it's gonna be a long 3 - 4 month wait!

Well I figured out the Doctor was implying Amy was a ganger before it was actually revealed (although I didn't understand HOW she could be one) so maybe he did too?

Also one more before the break I think.

Coldzone

Basq wrote: »

EDIT: Was anything else hugely disappointed to see the lack of a 'Coming Soon' at the end of the episode?! Presuming the second half of the season will be September.. it's gonna be a long 3 - 4 month wait!

There is a prequel for the episode next week on the bbc website but wont play in my area stuff is coming up when i try watch it

jimbob_jones

Folks,

Here is the trailer for next weeks mid-season finale

As River would say "Spoilers "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_NLjHUKEro

MrVestek

Wow that last episode was a bit meh in places but the ending was fantastic.

Still though I have a gripe... the Doctor said that the TARDIS stabalised the other gangers so that they were now real people...

Why wasn't it doing that to 'Amy' all along?

MrVestek

jimbob_jones wrote: »

Folks,

Here is the trailer for next weeks mid-season finale

As River would say "Spoilers "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_NLjHUKEro

Omg that looks AMAZING!

Killer_banana

Coldzone wrote: »

There is a prequel for the episode next week on the bbc website but wont play in my area stuff is coming up when i try watch it

Friend just linked me this, guessing its the same thing. Not embedding it because it's quite spoilery (I wish I hadn't watched it) and I don't want to piss anyone off in case the thumbnail is a spoiler or something.

Edit: Was beaten to it. =P

Edit 2: Just realise you said prequel, not preview, my mistake sorry.

Killer_banana

Achilles wrote: »

.. Why wasn't it doing that to 'Amy' all along?

I took him to mean they would look human forever, they wouldn't revert back to Voldemort look-alikes ever again. If that's what he meant then it had been doing that for 'Amy' all along.

onion rings

i was thinking maybe after watching that clip, that

river is the one in the suit that shoots the doctor in the first ep (she does kill a very good man, and the next ep is called a good man goes to war), and that she could well be the weapon (baby) that they are talking about in the clip. id say amys been the flesh since the silence got her on that slab

Daemos

That was a big improvement on last week for me, even without the cliffhanger

Mr E

Crap episode, great ending.

Can't believe they're splitting the season up.

BlitzKrieg

crap episode, great ending.

I found it very difficult concentrating on the episode itself until the last scene.

Though one bit stuck out form me and can someone confirm or not

Did Amy admit to the doctor that she knows he's going to die?

I mean she said it to what she thought was a ganger in a rather jumbling way...but the doctors swapped shoes so wasnt it the doctor she told>???

I'm not 100% sure though

Basq

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Did Amy admit to the doctor that she knows he's going to die?

I mean she said it to what she thought was a ganger in a rather jumbling way...but the doctors swapped shoes so wasnt it the doctor she told>???

I'm not 100% sure though

We don't have a timeframe of when exactly the Doctor's swapped shoes..

.. since that was quite early in the episode, I'd be inclined to think they hadn't swapped shoes at that stage, and she told the Ganger.

wench

Basq wrote: »

We don't have a timeframe of when exactly the Doctor's swapped shoes..

.. since that was quite early in the episode, I'd be inclined to think they hadn't swapped shoes at that stage, and she told the Ganger.

I think it was the real doctor she told.
At the end the docs said she had been wrong, and they had been swapped "all along"
Then when ganger doc said it was time for him to die, real doc said that they hadn''t been invited this time.

Aldebaran

I didn't think the episode was that bad, enjoyable enough. The ending was great though, really didn't see it coming!

So how long has Amy been a ganger? Since she was kidnapped by the Silence?

Basq wrote: »

We don't have a timeframe of when exactly the Doctor's swapped shoes..

.. since that was quite early in the episode, I'd be inclined to think they hadn't swapped shoes at that stage, and she told the Ganger.

No, I think it was the real Doctor she told. When it became obvious that the Ganger-Doctor was going to stay behind and die, the real Doctor said something along the lines of 'And this one we're not invited to'. So now he knows.

BlitzKrieg

from the scene when they are holding the door:

amy: But your not him, I'm sorry

flesh: Amy we swapped shoes

doctor: I'm the doctor

flesh: and I'm the flesh

Amy: You cant be, youre the real him

flesh: No i'm not and havnt been all along

doctor: I'm the original doctor amy, we had to know we are truely the same it was important vital to know about the flesh and we can only do that through your eyes.

(38 minutes into the episode)


So yeah uhmm. Amy told the doctor he's going to die


at 14:58

Amy says: Can you die? Can he die??? I mean....I might have seen that happen.

Doctor: Why?

Amy: Why? because you invited us to see it. Your Death!


Course this is thrown into doubt cause then the doctor goes into an angry fit of hearing the flesh's memories etc.

So rather confusing plothole?

BlitzKrieg

So how long has Amy been a ganger? Since she was kidnapped by the Silence?

longer...

she saw the midwife when she was in the orphanage right?

Killer_banana

What with both Doctor's having screwdrivers, as well as the confusion over who Amy told, and last years whole jacket 'plothole' I'm hoping that there's more to it than what we saw on screen. Surely they wouldn't make two pretty big mistakes in the one episode?! One I'd see as a plothole but two...

ixoy

Thought it was a definite improvement on the first part, a lot of that to do with having two Matt Smith's bouncing off each other. A nice nod to the classic era in there too with "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow!" and offering jelly babies
I also believe that Amy told the real Doctor about his impending death (or that of his 'Ganger if the 'Ganger still lives, as is implied).

Ending of course was great but how does that explain Amy's "Pregant/Not Pregnant" status? Are RealAmy and 'GangerAmy linked at some odd quantum level? And why did the Doctor execute 'GangerAmy given he had just been going on about how the 'Gangers were real people?

Aldebaran

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

longer...

she saw the midwife when she was in the orphanage right?

Yeah, you're right actually. So it possibly happened between episodes one and two then? She tells the Doctor at the end of The Impossible Astronaut that she's pregnant and then denies it in the next episode...

Daemos

Aldebaran wrote: »

So how long has Amy been a ganger? Since she was kidnapped by the Silence?

Since before

The Impossible Astronaut

. Moffat said so himself on Confidential.

BlitzKrieg

Ending of course was great but how does that explain Amy's "Pregant/Not Pregnant" status? Are RealAmy and 'GangerAmy linked at some odd quantum level? And why did the Doctor execute 'GangerAmy given he had just been going on about how the 'Gangers were real people?

Not sure. But I think that ganger amy is like how the ganger's were prior to being made autonomous by the storm. I.E they need someone in a bed link to control them. And that it has been *amy* in a ganger suit with us this season while the real amy gives birth. hence the nannycam visions and the doctor telling her he is coming to save her.

amy's pregnant/not pregnant status is because physically the ganger is not pregnant, but real amy is and is transmitting elements of the pregnancy to the ganger.

Penn

Daemos wrote: »

Since before

The Impossible Astronaut

. Moffat said so himself on Confidential.

Yeah, Amy first saw the Eyepatch Woman before she was kidnapped by The Silence, so it had to have been Ganger Amy from the start.

Alright episode, but great finish.

Manach

I concur it was an improvement over last episode, OTT CGI not withstanding, but what an ending.

jimbob_jones

More spoilers abound folks,

Here is the prequel to Episode 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiB3SdlQ6sI

One thing I will say, vanity smurf has really let himself go

pixelburp

So basically that two-parter existed for no other reasons than to:

a) lead us into a cliffhanger for the mid-season finale. And, more critically
b) introduce us to the idea of The Flesh, how it works, and how the people created are still real people. In other words, the writers wanted the viewers to be sure that once the big surprise happened at the end, we didn't feel cheated in the "It was all a dream" sense. That it wasn't a clone, or a fake Amy; that was the "real" one, and a projection of the original version.

So in many ways, although it doesn't cheapen the shock at the end of the episode, it does cheapen the two parter we've just gone and watched. In effect those two episodes existed purely to prepare the basis for the ending, and then lead us into the finale. I think that makes it the worst offender of TV filler in some time!

Still though, I don't think it was as bad as some people are saying. Solid enough drama, with - again - some adult themes and ideas presented. The human characters were fairly believable, and the ideas behind it all was interesting enough. Still contest that the TARDIS trio were really badly written though. And does that also mean we finally got a multi-doctor story? Complete with cameos (of sorts) from the previous incarnations. Did Tom Baker get a voice credit hehe

I'm half tempted to start a thread now about the upcoming mid-season story because there's a lot to think / talk about:

• Who is that woman; or rather, who is she working for and what's their agenda?
• What's River Song's involvement?
• What's so special about Amy's child in the first place?
• What connection is there with the Time-Lord child from the start of the season?
• Have we really seen the last of Ganger Doctor? That line at the end about what memory-blah-de-blah being saved; I suspect we may see it again
  

Penn

If the Doctor shot in Episode 1 was the Ganger Doctor, shouldn't it have turned back into Flesh when it died? I mean, if the Flesh could copy The Doctor's biology enough to be able to regenerate, surely once it was shot the second time it should have melted or whatever. I think the idea of a Ganger Doctor being in the first episode could be a red herring.

Doctor DooM

I thought it was on the good side of meh.

The goodbye with the Doctorganger went on way too long.

Loved all the scenes between Smith and himself. Loved the pretty heavy homaging.

Endnig of course was amazing.

Prepare for fanwank theory in 3...

So we have a timelord child, a non working prototype tardis shown for no reason in ep 1, and a preggers Amy.

I would guess what is going on here is that the new tardis is not working because of the Rassilon Imprematur- there's a failsafe in Tardises that they will not work until imprinted upon by a time lord.

The Doctor's DNA has been taken at least twice before. I would guess that as a time traveller all full of arton energy and what not (as established in the lodger, another thing which is needed for this new Tardis) Amy would make the closest thing you're currently going to get to a Time lady to bear a cloned/ perhaps invitro/ whatever Doctor's offspring.

So basically the bad guys here want a timelord to activte the new Tardis as a weapon, which obviously they could easily be.

I would guess that River will be in the suit. Also wildy guessing, they made sure to point out that the memory remains in the flesh. It stood out to me as exposition when they did. I'd put money on the Doctor summoning the Doctorganger at some point out of whatever flesh the bad guys used to creat the amy ganger, and the plot will lead to the first episode.

I'm also guessing by his blase reaction the Doctor is aware of "his" impending death for some time.

Coldzone

Some of my late nite drunken ideas lol

1 watch Doctor Who Confidential and at the start they say Amy is gone from episode 1 and show the clip when they get off the bus so she was taken before the series starts probably when Rory and Amy are at home at the start of the series
2 the ganger Doctor said he could be back so nevermind the death in 1st ep maybe the ganger Doctor is the Valeyard
3 in the preview River is dressed as a pirate at the start so the pirates from episaode 3 must play some part.
4 a mad theory now the girl regenerating in Day of the Moon is created by thr Silence to fight Amy's baby sincethe eye patch woman says the baby is a weapon.

Sorry for the long reply but just my mad ramblings.... Lol

Cookie33

Enjoyed this episode and especially the cliffhanger

I'm trying to think back to last season where Amy could have been swapped to FleshAmy. (We could reckon 9 months but thats hard to tell in a time travelling series)

In the YouTube prequel - did anyone notice Rory

wearing his roman's outfit? (Maybe

The Doctor's didn't have 2 screwdrivers, they kept throwing it over to each other when that Doctor needed it

Can't wait for next episode!!

Stark

Flesh thing explains why Amy has been wearing the exact same clothes since the beginning of the season.

Basq

Cookie33 wrote: »

The Doctor's didn't have 2 screwdrivers, they kept throwing it over to each other when that Doctor needed it

But correct me if I'm wrong..

.. Ganger Doctor stayed with Ganger Cleaves and used the Sonic Screwdriver to emit the pulse to kill himself, Cleaves and Ganger Lucas.

The Doctor then used a Sonic Screwdriver shortly after back on the TARDIS to emit a pulse to kill Ganger Amy.

Cookie33

Basq wrote: »

But correct me if I'm wrong..

.. Ganger Doctor stayed with Ganger Cleaves and used the Sonic Screwdriver to emit the pulse to kill himself, Cleaves and Ganger.

The Doctor then used a Sonic Screwdriver shortly after back on the TARDIS to emit a pulse to kill Ganger Amy.

Ah yes! Forgot about that. It's very hard to keep up watching Doctor Who!

Stark

He seems to have a drawer full of the things these days. He got a new one straight after the old one was destroyed in "A christmas carol" as well. No wonder he was able to give River Song one. (On a point of inconsistency, shouldn't current River Song have a screwdriver from when the Doctor gives her one in his future/her past?).

Basq

Stark wrote: »

He seems to have a drawer full of the things these days. He got a new one straight after the old one was destroyed in "A christmas carol" as well. No wonder he was able to give River Song one. (On a point of inconsistency, shouldn't current River Song have a screwdriver from when the Doctor gives her one in his future/her past?).

:pac:

jimbob_jones

Basq wrote: »

But correct me if I'm wrong..

.. Ganger Doctor stayed with Ganger Cleaves and used the Sonic Screwdriver to emit the pulse to kill himself, Cleaves and Ganger Lucas.

The Doctor then used a Sonic Screwdriver shortly after back on the TARDIS to emit a pulse to kill Ganger Amy.

Yeah I rewatched the scene with the Ganger Doctor and Ganger Cleaves its hard to tell if the screwdriver drops to the floor or melts along with the Ganger Doc, ganger sonic screwdriver if thats possible

garg

sorry guys but that episode was absolute horse manure, as far as i can see it was a huge waste of time. The ending was good alright but then everything else that didn't tie in with the series long story was a waste of time! terrible.

acting was brutal, at one stage i had to thank the gods i had sky plus, so i could rewind and actually understand what the doctor and the boss were saying to each other!

next week does look good but what a waste of two storylines.

off.the.walls

Wasn't really a waste the doctor needed to know how the flesh worked so he went to the factory to figure it out so he could disconnect amy from flesh amy and go save her.

Raedwald

Does this finally explain why the Tardis hasnt been able to decide whether Amy is pregnant or not?

If its been Ganger Amy since the beginning the only time it could have occurred was when she was off screen collecting the Doctors letter from the postman.

Interesting couple of episodes not great but not awful either.

Two Doctors, Two Amy's and possibly Two Cleavers!

The thing about the Doctor being killed in the first episode is that he was 200 or so years older than the Doctor should of been at that point and it leads me to believe that surely the Ganger Doctor knows what is going on and has come back to fulfill his role in the storyline.

Yahew

The episode was good standalone.

As for the screwdriver - the ganger doctor was given one and the real doctor got a new one in the Tardis.

Eyespy

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

from the scene when they are holding the door:

amy: But your not him, I'm sorry

flesh: Amy we swapped shoes

doctor: I'm the doctor

flesh: and I'm the flesh

Amy: You cant be, youre the real him

flesh: No i'm not and havnt been all along

doctor: I'm the original doctor amy, we had to know we are truely the same it was important vital to know about the flesh and we can only do that through your eyes.

(38 minutes into the episode)


So yeah uhmm. Amy told the doctor he's going to die


at 14:58

Amy says: Can you die? Can he die??? I mean....I might have seen that happen.

Doctor: Why?

Amy: Why? because you invited us to see it. Your Death!


Course this is thrown into doubt cause then the doctor goes into an angry fit of hearing the flesh's memories etc.

So rather confusing plothole?

Just watching the impossible astronaut again and wonder if this plot was what the Silence was referring to when it spoke to Amy in the bathroom of the White House,

Amy: "Why did you have to kill her?"

Silence: "Joy. Her name was Joy. Your name is Amelia. You will tell the doctor"

Amy:"Tell him what?"

Silence: "What he must know, and What he must never Know."

Amy: "How do you know about that?"

Silence: "TELL HIM"

So maybe in a roundabout way Amy fulfilled this, in 'telling' the doctors' what they needed to know about the flesh through her eyes and blurting it out about his death (which obviously he was never to find out about). All I know is that I cannot wait until next Saturday! Too bad we won't have any more Who until September

pixelburp

off.the.walls wrote: »

Wasn't really a waste the doctor needed to know how the flesh worked so he went to the factory to figure it out so he could disconnect amy from flesh amy and go save her.

Which we found out in the last 30 seconds of a two-part adventure. I'm not sure that the story needed to be 2 parts, it just made it all feel like a lot of running about for nothing. Like I said already, a big slice of filler.

The Mad Hatter

There really is some inconsistency in this episode - the Doctors keep swapping screwdrivers, but they still both seem to have one.

After the ganger-doctor-who's-actually-the-actual-doctor wakes up, he picks up his screwdriver.

Then, in the next scene, when

the actual-doctor-who's-actually-the-ganger-doctor and the humans are locked into the acid room by Rory and Jennifer, that doctor uses his screwdriver to scan the room (but not to unlock the door - wtf?)

. That's aside from the other apparent screwdriver doubling at the end of the episode. But they still keep trading screwdrivers as if there's only one.

As to the inconsistency of the doctor's treatment of the Flesh, what I imagine happened is that Moffat wrote the end of the episode, and had an idea about what the Flesh were from the beginning of the series, but that idea was expanded on by Matthew Graham, who wanted to explore ideas of humanity and suchlike. That doesn't excuse it, mind - the whole two-parter was a shambles, in spite of some good ideas.

calex71

I'm confused now, where did real Amy go and how was the one in this episode flesh

Penn

calex71 wrote: »

I'm confused now, where did real Amy go and how was the one in this episode flesh

The real Amy was kidnapped before the start of the series and replaced with a Flesh Ganger-Amy. That's why there was confusion about whether she was pregnant or not, the real Amy was pregnant but the Ganger-Amy couldn't be. Ganger-Amy thought she was real.

So the pregnant Amy we seen at the end is the real Amy who was kidnapped and replaced a while ago. Presumably we'll find out when/why/how in the next episode or by the end of the series