Netherlands to close Cannabis outlets to tourists.

Cathaoirleach

mikom wrote: »

Chill out man.

Just don't call him a homo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4uj5NZS7g8

Irishstabber

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I don't , it's the fcukers who smoke it and toss out their auld shite who annoy me.

Smoke the stuff all you like, don't expect me to pay for you , when you are hallucinating in hospital.

'Kay:D

Dont expect me to pay for your stomach pump when you over consume alcohol either.

Seriously hallucinations? Cop on man. The active ingredient in cannabis is THC and although it does provide mild hallucinogenic effects I have never heard of anyone in hospital over it. There isn't one recorded death from cannabis anywhere in the world.

Unless, and I mean unless, it was ingested with another substance. And by saying that I mean no Medical records worldwide cite "cannabis" as the cause of death. Its impossible to die from ingesting a non toxic plant in a conventional sense.

philologos

Meh, if the Dutch government feel like they need to revise their policy on drugs if it is having an undesirable effect on their society that's their prerogative IMO. Perhaps just perhaps there's more to the Netherlands than cannabis and prostitutes.

I could be just crazy though, I'm willing to suggest that much :pac:

I do wonder how they will enforce this law though, or how they will tell between the foreign nationals that are resident and tourists.

Contemplating Aristotle

The authorities hearts are so full of hatred, they cannot just love and accept their fellow man, those who seek other ways. It may be true that taking drugs has effects, but what doesn’t? Do we ban the car as one may crash? Do we ban rock climbing for one may fall to their death. Do we ban the sale of kitchen knifes for one may harm themselves or another entity with it?

The answers are no we do not, and yet we as a society feel the urge to repress drug usage. Those who often say they love their fellow man, are the very people who refuse to open their hearts to the ways of others, and love them as their fellow man.

Oh_Noes

Passports and drivers licenses most likely. Or utility bill on membership application like video shops or libraries.

That being said, it's most likely never going to happen. Anyone going over for the next couple of years will probably see coffee shops everywhere with "foreigners welcome" or something along the lines. They aren't known for heavy-handed policing and I doubt they'll change that over cannabis.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Shows the corruption of the EU. They want cannabis banned but realise that its not going to be. now they're bending their own free trade laws to clamp down on it in another way

Irishstabber

rossie1977 wrote: »

amsterdam has run out of control its a mess, its a cesspool of corruption, crime, everything is out of control, its anarchy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTPsFIsxM3w

Ah Fox News...the most hilarious channel on air. Better than Comedy Central.:)

HavingCrack

rossie1977 wrote: »

amsterdam has run out of control its a mess, its a cesspool of corruption, crime, everything is out of control, its anarchy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTPsFIsxM3w

The really sad thing is that most large American cities have far, far, far worse problems with corruption, drug dealing and violent crime than Amsterdam. Parts of Washington DC, Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago (possibly the most corrupt city in the US), Los Angeles, St. Louis, Philadelphia and San Francisco are far, far, far more dangerous and out of control than any part of Amsterdam. If FOX stopped spending so much time fixating on foreign countries and turned their attention to the problems the Drug War has wrought on communities across the United States I might begin taking them seriously (Actually that's a lie, FOX are a complete joke as journalists).

philologos

Contemplating Aristotle wrote: »

The authorities hearts are so full of hatred, they cannot just love and accept their fellow man, those who seek other ways. It may be true that taking drugs has effects, but what doesn’t? Do we ban the car as one may crash? Do we ban rock climbing for one may fall to their death. Do we ban the sale of kitchen knifes for one may harm themselves or another entity with it?

I think the case is that in Amsterdam there's evidently been a lot of civil disorder as a result of the use of cannabis, and in another respect in terms of prostitution. In terms of general usage amongst the Dutch themselves it doesn't seem to be much a problem in terms of disobedience, it may cause problems in general attitudes (such as that of treating people as sexual objects rather than who they are in the case of prostitution).

Maybe they don't want Amsterdam to be regarded as the free-for-all that it is currently regarded by tourists and indeed they don't want the negative effects that that is having by their own research. This seems to be why they have restricted the use of cannabis and why a few years ago they halved the number of windows due to suspicions about criminality being involved.

Contemplating Aristotle

philologos wrote: »

I think the case is that in Amsterdam there's evidently been a lot of civil disorder as a result of the use of cannabis, and in another respect in terms of prostitution. In terms of general usage amongst the Dutch themselves it doesn't seem to be much a problem in terms of disobedience, it may cause problems in general attitudes (such as that of treating people as sexual objects rather than who they are in the case of prostitution).

Maybe they don't want Amsterdam to be regarded as the free-for-all that it is currently regarded by tourists and indeed they don't want the negative effects that that is having by their own research. This seems to be why they have restricted the use of cannabis and why a few years ago they halved the number of windows due to suspicions about criminality being involved.

Why should only the Dutch get to enjoy cannabis, are we not all deserving of the same liberties?

philologos

Contemplating Aristotle wrote: »

Why should only the Dutch get to enjoy cannabis, are we not all deserving of the same liberties?

Argue for it in your own countries if you want it that bad, but there will be a debate as there is with everything else.

HavingCrack

Contemplating Aristotle wrote: »

Why should only the Dutch get to enjoy cannabis, are we not all deserving of the same liberties?

Like it or not, national boundaires between sovereign states exist, even within the EU. Simply because Dutch people can enjoy cannabis is not a de facto reason that other EU nationals can. However EU law overrides national law so if this was a case whereby Dutch citizens were enjoying privileges (excluding government functions such as voting) not guaranteed to other EU nationals I suppose the law would have to be struck down. On the other hand, cannabis is not exactly 'legal' in the Netherlands, merely tolerated so it is not exactly discrimination. You cannot be discriminated against for partaking in an 'illegal' (albeit unenforced) activity. Furthermore I do not know if the EU has any specific laws or directives relating to the legality of cannabis so whether there is even a case to be taken is another matter (I presume they do since they have laws for fcuking everything these days but I am not aware of any).

While I am not a lawyer on the whole I doubt you are guaranteed the 'right' to smoke cannabis in the Dutch coffee shops.

Now, the debate for cannabis legalisation is an entirely different matter to the point you are raising as far as I can see.

xzanti

The brazzers will be hit fairly hard..

philologos

HavingCrack wrote: »

However EU law overrides national law so if this was a case whereby Dutch citizens were enjoying privileges (excluding government functions such as voting) not guaranteed to other EU nationals I suppose the law would have to be struck down.

EU law doesn't prohibit the use of cannabis, that is a matter down to individual member states.

The Dutch authorities have done it out of their own impetus, they could have left things as they were but they didn't because they noticed a problem.

HavingCrack

philologos wrote: »

EU law doesn't prohibit the use of cannabis, that is a matter down to individual member states.

The Dutch authorities have done it out of their own impetus, they could have left things as they were but they didn't because they noticed a problem.

I think I mentioned that further down my post, I had no idea whether the EU had any specific directive relating to cannabis, cheers for clearing it up.

On the whole, cannabis tourism does strike me as pretty unsavoury. The idea of people flocking to my city to smoke joints is a bit... unpleasant. Before anyone compares it to people coming to Dublin to drink alcohol it isn't really the same thing. You can consume alcohol nearly everywhere in the world except some Muslim countries and a few dry counties in the United States. Nobody comes to Dublin specificially to drink legally.

DepecheHead101

bc dub wrote: »

the quality of weed available in Ireland now means amsterdam was a luxury these days, not a necessity

Some of us here may be lucky but don't let that fool you. The average bag of grass in this country is 2.5 with spray. It's absoloutely atrocious unless you grow or know growers.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/180848_191082294259543_100000733212477_492134_2766913_n.jpg

I've seen stuff like that get flogged to people who don't know any better.

philologos

Portugal decriminalised the possession of drugs in 2001 according to this article, but apparently that is different to legalisation.

Martyn1989

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

They're going to see a huge drop in tourism now...this is the only reason why many tourists go there....

True that, theres a fair bit to see, but incomparison to other european cities it hasnt a chance, not without weed....

MadsL

R P McMurphy wrote: »

To Prague instead, Amsterdam a nice city but would become a lot less interesting without coffee shops. This was bound to happen there eventually. Will become another dull city

Oddly enough from the Velvet Revolution in '89 up until about '99 all drugs were legal to possess in the Czech Republic. I'll say that again all drugs were legal to possess. That's what happens when you appoint Frank Zappa to be cultural attaché and that was Zappa's advice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zappa

I loved living there 93 - 96. I remember a friend coming over to visit and he ended up gagging to get some weed. I didn't really smoke that much, and was like "just have some of this wonderful beer and chill out". But he wanted a J so I ended up walking over to this czech guy in a bar (you could smoke weed if the bar owner let you, it was pretty much up to then as to what they allowed. They didn't sell it) and asking if he would let me have a little weed. Now selling weed was illegal so the guy took a look at us and dumped about an ounce on the table, and said "here, enjoy". He told us he grew enough for all his friends at his parents country place.

Eventually, a nasty drug called Pervitin became popular (basically cheap bathtub methamphetamine) and being passed what you thought was a joint was a whole different ball game.

Add that to the fact that the Russian/Ukrainian or wherever mafias started moving heroin through CZ and the drug thing went from being chilled out to getting nasty. I had a friend who got his face sliced, and the bar I ran was on a street where drugs were sold openly and the cops paid off. It was one of the first bars in Prague to install blue lights in the jacks.

Eventually in 99 the Czechs decided to criminalise drug possession. So, a naive new democracy legalising drugs and trying to build a hippy utopia getting it's ass handed to it? Well perhaps, except the story doesn't end there. As of January 01, 2010 the Czechs have made it legal to possess the following; 5 plants of hemp or 15.0 grams of marijuana, 40 pieces of magic mushrooms, 5.0 grams of hashish, 5 LCD laced papers or other materials with LSD, 1.5 grams of heroin, 1.0 grams of cocaine, and 2.0 grams of methamphetamine.

The reasoning? The government wants to deal with dealers as it were, not lock up users. I'm also guessing that they will get a hell of a lot more tourists

Now to those protesting dismay at the NL decision. I have a question? If only Irish residents could buy weed in coffee shops here, would you support legalisation?

~~~[OT]~~~

If you are now tempted to go party in Prague, well go, enjoy, but please be careful. Prague is a great and generally safe city, but if it is too good to be true, it usually is; if girls that goodlooking don't normally come up to you in bars or on the street and run their hands all over you, then be suspicious. She probably now has your wallet/watch/passport. Keep an eye on your drink in bars, in Prague tourists get drugged, then mugged. If you are going out to get wasted, leave valuables at hotel and carry emergency cash/ID in a hidden pocket or in your shoe. A mugger wallet is also good idea.
And respect the place will ya. Just cus you can get wasted and piss against the wall and vomit on the street in Dublin doesn't mean you should do that in someone else's city...

DepecheHead101

'5 LSD laced papers' :pac:.

That's fantastic. There is something so hillariously odd about being that detailed with such laws.

Mine's an A3 sheet!

refusetolose

Terry wrote: »

It always cracks me up how easily stoners get riled up about their habit being illegal, but will then tell you in the same breath that smoking weed mellows them out.

@54 posts in, and most of the thread is 'GRRRRRRRRRRRRR! It's all the fault of everyone else!!!!!!!!. We didn't do it. Alcohol is to blame and so forth!!!!'

the real stoners aren't even replying

their just staring at the screen

HavingCrack

MadsL wrote: »

Eventually in 99 the Czechs decided to criminalise drug possession. So, a naive new democracy legalising drugs and trying to build a hippy utopia getting it's ass handed to it? Well perhaps, except the story doesn't end there. As of January 01, 2010 the Czechs have made it legal to possess the following; 5 plants of hemp or 15.0 grams of marijuana, 40 pieces of magic mushrooms, 5.0 grams of hashish, 5 LCD laced papers or other materials with LSD, 1.5 grams of heroin, 1.0 grams of cocaine, and 2.0 grams of methamphetamine.

The reasoning? The government wants to deal with dealers as it were, not lock up users. I'm also guessing that they will get a hell of a lot more tourists

The main problem with full legalisation of drugs as I see it is that it will be very hard to do if one country goes it alone. It really needs a few countries to group together and do it to prevent the problems that you outlined occuring.

RockinRolla

HavingCrack wrote: »

The main problem with full legalisation of drugs as I see it is that it will be very hard to do if one country goes it alone. It really needs a few countries to group together and do it to prevent the problems that you outlined occuring.

I had you down for another world view...

In any respect, the Czech Rep is an ideal location to ship large quantities of drugs through to western Europe. Ireland, being an isolated island off the coast of the continent, wouldn't be such a good geographical location for drug cartels. In any case, Britain would be the most, if not the only one effected if drugs were legalised here. With regards to the Czechs - only possession was legal, not the open sale. And therein lays the fundamental problem - if you pass legislation as to the legality of possession but continue with the forbidding of open sale, then you are openly and actively encouraging a flourishing criminal enterprise and culture.

Alcohol, for all intents and purposes, is a dangerous substance. Yet, it has become so normalised in our everyday lives, we don't appreciate the sheer scope of it's damage. Legalising the possession of drugs would be taking 'two-steps-back' so to speak. To really end violence and organised crime, we must end the motivation to participate in those sales. The only way we can end it then, is to legalise all drugs. As in Amsterdam's case, the only people celebrating at this point, is the underworld.

HavingCrack

RockinRolla wrote: »

I had you down for another world view...

:pac:

RockinRolla wrote: »

In any respect, the Czech Rep is an ideal location to ship large quantities of drugs through to western Europe. Ireland, being an isolated island off the coast of the continent, wouldn't be such a good geographical location for drug cartels. In any case, Britain would be the most, if not the only one effected if drugs were legalised here. With regards to the Czechs - only possession was legal, not the open sale. And therein lays the fundamental problem - if you pass legislation as to the legality of possession but continue with the forbidding of open sale, then you are openly and actively encouraging a flourishing criminal enterprise and culture.

Alcohol, for all intents and purposes, is a dangerous substance. Yet, it has become so normalised in our everyday lives, we don't appreciate the sheer scope of it's damage. Legalising the possession of drugs would be taking 'two-steps-back' so to speak. To really end violence and organised crime, we must end the motivation to participate in those sales. The only way we can end it then, is to legalise all drugs. As in Amsterdam's case, the only people celebrating at this point, is the underworld.

I think the Czechs are certainly on the right road however. Decriminalisation followed by legalisation of possession followed by full legalisation is the correct route to take I feel. The overnight full legalisation of all previously controlled substances would be an unmitigated disaster in my view. There is nothing wrong with legalisation but I feel it needs to be done gradually, not all in one go.

The only drugs I might be opposed to being fully legalised are crack cocaine, crystal meth and to a lesser extent heroin. Even though it goes right against my political leanings I really feel those three are just horrific drugs and should not be openly sold and promoted.

RockinRolla

HavingCrack wrote: »

:pac:



I think the Czechs are certainly on the right road however. Decriminalisation followed by legalisation of possession followed by full legalisation is the correct route to take I feel. The overnight full legalisation of all previously controlled substances would be an unmitigated disaster in my view. There is nothing wrong with legalisation but I feel it needs to be done gradually, not all in one go.

The only drugs I might be opposed to being fully legalised are crack cocaine, crystal meth and to a lesser extent heroin. Even though it goes right against my political leanings I really feel those three are just horrific drugs and should not be openly sold and promoted.

Gotcha.

One thing about the harder drugs you listed - crack cocaine only came about because cocaine was illegal. The users needed a fix and resorted to mixing what little they managed to obtain with baking soda. If cocaine had been available, we might never have even come across crack to begin with. Crack, for the most part, is a highly addictive substance and because of the illegality of cocaine, we now have a new drug to content with.

The same can be said for almost all of these new highs, whether pills or other, that has not been researched as to how to contend with the behaviour of it's users, the long term side-effects and harms etc. In a way, we now have an array of drugs directly a consequence of improvisation on behalf of the users because of the illegality of the known substances.

old_aussie

Wont somebody think of the children clogs

Fukuyama

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

Some of us here may be lucky but don't let that fool you. The average bag of grass in this country is 2.5 with spray. It's absoloutely atrocious unless you grow or know growers.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/180848_191082294259543_100000733212477_492134_2766913_n.jpg

I've seen stuff like that get flogged to people who don't know any better.

WTF is that crap??!!

I can't even see a fleck of green in there?! What did they just go to the beach, bag up some sand and somehow pass it off as weed to an idiot?

I mean, even someone whose never seen weed before would have to be a little suspicious when handed a bag of aggregate!

DepecheHead101

Dean0088 wrote: »

WTF is that crap??!!

I can't even see a fleck of green in there?! What did they just go to the beach, bag up some sand and somehow pass it off as weed to an idiot?

I mean, even someone whose never seen weed before would have to be a little suspicious when handed a bag of aggregate!

It's a bad pic but I've seen bags like that. Tiny little mothball sized bits of 'bud' mostly crushed into dust.

That's the worst of the worst gritweed mind you. One touch off the bluntest of grinders and the hard little pebbles of trash explode into a fine powder.

You really have to appreciate how many people out there who just split the odd bag with a friend when they are drunk will settle for this. I've seen pretentious students pass it off because they just don't care and smoke it themselves and scum sell it to people under the pretence that 'the dust is the strongest bit'.

bc dub

and as I saw on youtube previously, this is what it is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwCS3E2NlY

Daroxtar

TBH, the new law won't be passed as it discriminates against non-Dutch citizens. The EU won't allow that.
/End of racist law being pushed by Right-wing Christian dry sh!tes