Split Classes Primary

DGOBS

Hi all,

I was called into my school last week to 'discuss' with all the parents and principle the issue that has arose that there is 40 students in our junior infants and 40 incoming next year, the solution being a split class

1 Junior Infants 28
1 Senior Infants 28
1 Mixed 12/12

This was due to the fact the principle was trying to secure an extra teacher at the beginning of last year, and wrote at parents who's kids were just turning 4 in the area begging them to join school that year (hence causing this issue)

The parents were asked for input, but the principle said it was not considered 'proper' to select pupils by any criteria (top of class, bottom of class, age etc) to form the split, and opted of a lottery!!!!!! my childs education came to drawing names from a hat (the height of professionalism)

Parent requested to be present for said draw, but a letter arrived in my childs bag this week, stating, she was drawn for the split class, the draw took place without anyone present except the board of management and a guard
(so much for listening to parents input)

Now the split, will last for 7 years, right the way through the primary system, rotation has been frowned upon as an option.

I am considering the option of moving school, but breaking my heart to do this to my child, who is settled and has made local friends who will most likely be lost.

Questions?

Is a splt with the senior side made of opposite ends of top/bottom of class as bad an option as I see it to be?
Is the 7 years of split too long?
A TD said 12/12 was not correct as there has to be a dominant number?


HELP.....any suggestion really welcomed....

Sorry for the long post...I could go on...

lily09

Hi
I teach a mixed senior infants and first class and just wanted to allay some of your fears. As I see there will be a split of 12 and 12 which you are very lucky is a very small number. Usually in our school we split according to age which is probably fairer although the situation is different as they are only split for one class and join together again. I wouldn't worry about them being split the whole way through primary school as they will see themselves as a class unit. Being in a split class in my opinion is of no detriment to the child. Often the better younger children learn from the older and in a class that small the weaker will get attention. The children do have to be better behaved as they will need to be quiet when the others are being taught.it's the teacher who has the hardest part as there are 2 sets of lessons to plan but the day goes very quickly!
Honestly don't worry too much.
Ps I don't know what you mean about the td

uriah

DGOBS wrote: »

Hi all,

I was called into my school last week to 'discuss' with all the parents and principle the issue that has arose that there is 40 students in our junior infants and 40 incoming next year, the solution being a split class

1 Junior Infants 28
1 Senior Infants 28
1 Mixed 12/12

This was due to the fact the principle was trying to secure an extra teacher at the beginning of last year, and wrote at parents who's kids were just turning 4 in the area begging them to join school that year (hence causing this issue)

The parents were asked for input, but the principle said it was not considered 'proper' to select pupils by any criteria (top of class, bottom of class, age etc) to form the split, and opted of a lottery!!!!!! my childs education came to drawing names from a hat (the height of professionalism)

Parent requested to be present for said draw, but a letter arrived in my childs bag this week, stating, she was drawn for the split class, the draw took place without anyone present except the board of management and a guard
(so much for listening to parents input)

Now the split, will last for 7 years, right the way through the primary system, rotation has been frowned upon as an option.

I am considering the option of moving school, but breaking my heart to do this to my child, who is settled and has made local friends who will most likely be lost.

Questions?

Is a splt with the senior side made of opposite ends of top/bottom of class as bad an option as I see it to be?
Is the 7 years of split too long?
A TD said 12/12 was not correct as there has to be a dominant number?


HELP.....any suggestion really welcomed....

Sorry for the long post...I could go on...

It is always a lottery as to who will be in a child's class! It will be a mixture of ages, ability, talents, strengths, personalities. The 'split' will make no difference to this.

Why do parents become so concerned about a child being in a mixed class group? I think it will have no adverse effect on your child's education and might even enhance it. These twelve new junior infants will be in a classroom with twelve senior infants who have had a year in school. They will learn from them. The older children help and look out for the younger ones, show them how things are donne, where everything is stored.

Your child will always have an older group in the room, doing slightly mor advanced work, so if they are interested, they will listen in when they have finished their own activity. Being in a two-class group also makes the children more independent as they will spend more time working independently, and this is definitely an advantage.

In your position, I would be hoping and praying that my child was going into the 'split' group (multi-class group is a better description). Far preferable, in my opinion, to being in a class of 28 junior infants!!

It is important that your child sees/hears you being positive about school.

DGOBS

All of the 'good reasons' you have added are based on the younger and weaker kids, my child luckily was top of her class, I don't see the benefit, she has been taken from here 'group' of friends, all of them, being taunted that she's going into the 'babies' class and her self esteem has gone through the floor

If it was an 'abilty' grouping or something I could understand and see the benefits, but the way this has been handled is really poor, and non-inclusive

Actually, just been informed that the split was based on the oldest 14 were exempt from the draw, now to me that is a discriminatory process and was biased to a group

uriah

DGOBS wrote: »

All of the 'good reasons' you have added are based on the younger and weaker kids, my child luckily was top of her class, I don't see the benefit, she has been taken from here 'group' of friends, all of them, being taunted that she's going into the 'babies' class and her self esteem has gone through the floor

If it was an 'abilty' grouping or something I could understand and see the benefits, but the way this has been handled is really poor, and non-inclusive

Actually, just been informed that the split was based on the oldest 14 were exempt from the draw, now to me that is a discriminatory process and was biased to a group

I would still want my child in the split class of 24 rather than in a class of 28. I'm surprised that no attempt was made to accommodate friendships, but children of that age are very adaptable. The children will cover exactly the same curriculum, but will spend more time working independently.

In cases like this, the positive/negative comments and vibes usually come from the parents. The child will think there is something negative about this because of the way in which the parent reacts. It would be better if the child had positive feelings about her class/school.

Mixed-age groups in classroom is a fundamental part of Montessori method. In such mixed-age groups, children are far more likely to be allowed progress at their own level and speed.

I have taught for years, single classes and mixed classes. I would have absolutely no worries about my child being in the multi-class situation.
I have taught two/three/four class groups. I can honestly say that the children's education certainly does not suffer, but they generally become more mature, more adaptable and far more independent.

These 'splits' happen in schools all over the country and work out fine for all. I hope your child has a very positive experience throughout her time in primary school.

DGOBS

I still notice a lack of positives for her in your last post!

Again, 7 years of a split class, they will not follow the same curriculum
every year (as in 5th class doing a 4th class year) I do understand junior and
senior infants do

I have not been negative infront of my child, but her peers have been

byhookorbycrook

There are going to be lots more splits as more and more teaching jobs are lost. Whatever way a class is divided there will always be someone unhappy.

I have worked in a two teacher school where I had four classes and 28 children.I have worked in two and three class situations also
A multi-class group is the same as a "straight" class group in that in a single class children will be grouped/differentiated for work anyhow.The older children feel "all grown up" and the younger children like to emulate their older classmates. I don't think you have any worries, a good teacher will be the most important thing in any classroom.

As to the TD,just shows what they know about the reality of irish classrooms. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The primary curriculum works in two year cycles, say infants, 1st and second, 3rd and 4th ,5th and 6th.When some of the curriculum has been covered in one year, it is expanded on the next.

You can't control what other children say, so let them on.Today it's class level, tomorrow it will be shoes, coat, bag, who wears glasses etc.
Many children never work in a single class-level setting and it certainly never held them back.

We had a split class one year and at the parent -teacher meetings a mothertold me she was glad her child was in my ("stronger ability") split. Next mother in said she was disappointed I had the "weaker" side.So, what I am saying is abilty was perceived in that case as two different things by two different parents. I don't see how you could split any class on "ability" as every child has different strengths and learning needs.

DGOBS

So how would you suggest to split a class?

In this case, 14 students of 40 were exempt from selection as there were the 'oldest' tier of the class, and the other 26 went into a hat

Would you not think this was an unfair system?

Why should some student be exempt at all, discrimination is the word in my mind.

overmantle

I'm a teacher and a parent whose children didn't attend the school where I was teaching. My children started school in straight classes but ended up in mixed classes. I couldn't get over the hysteria of some parents initially but after the first year, one of the parents who was most against her daughter being in a split, wanted her to remain in the split.

All straight classes contain a big variety of ability levels so teachers have to differentiate their teaching for different groups within the class. If the mixed class has a smaller number of pupils, an interactive whiteboard and the teacher has good planning in place, then there is absolutely no reason why your child should not do as well (or better) in a split class than in a straight class.

The majority of Irish children are now in multi-grade classes and this has always been a feature in rural areas. It would be fine if an equal number of children arrived every year to each school but that is just not the way it happens. We are now also living in an age of cutbacks so schools in urban areas are becoming more accustomed to working with split classes and I suspect that that is the way things are going to be. When it's a new concept for parents, it can be fear of the unknown but believe me, I've survived the experience and so have my children.

overmantle

Sorry but I'm totally confused by the comment about a TD talking about 12/12 not being a correct split? What is that supposed to be about? The notion of a dominant group in any class is nonsense. Was this TD a parent in the school? Was this TD, at any time, a teacher? If so, did the TD have any experience of teaching in a multi-grade setting? I'm sorry but if a TD said something to that effect, then he or she doesn't know what they are talking about. I suspect that if this comment was passed, then the TD was obviously trying to say something that his/her audience wanted to hear but unfortunately was talking nonsense.

uriah

DGOBS wrote: »

I still notice a lack of positives for her in your last post!

Again, 7 years of a split class, they will not follow the same curriculum
every year (as in 5th class doing a 4th class year) I do understand junior and
senior infants do

I have not been negative infront of my child, but her peers have been

After a very short time, they will be a unit. Breaking them up next year and putting them with others would just disrupt the unit again.
And her class will always be taught the curriculum for the that class.

I went right through primary school being taught in multi-class situation - sometimes two class groups, sometimes three class groups.
I had a very happy time in school and it didn't affect my education in any negative way.

Squirm

Hi,

I don't think it's possible for me to tell you why or how split class teaching would be beneficial to your daughter, only you can answer that. Perhaps make a pro & con list and make every effort to think, yourself, of a pro for every con you list? It sounds silly, but it can be a helpful exercise when you find yourself biaised in a particular direction and need to be a little more objective.

I am in the process of looking at schools for my daughter and adding her name to the waiting lists of those that I like the look of. One of these schools is a small school that splits their classes and combines grades. I was very apprehensive about this to begin with, as I was not taught this way andm felt that having younger pupils in the class might distract the teacher and hold the older pupils back somewhat. SO i did a good deal of research, spoke to teachers, past pupils and current pupils of schools and classes such as this and read up online (asked questions on forums). I have found that this manner of teaching comes HIGHLY recommended and very rarely receives any negative feedback. I am now hoping very much that my little girl gets offered a place in this school.

In general, the concensus seems to be that:
- classes are smaller
- older children are very helpful, protective, consciencous towards younger children
- younger children are exposed to the older children's learning materials and often engage in their school work if finished their own
- older children can have a positive effect on younger children, in terms of their advanced maturity and socialisation
- smaller class means more personable learning experience and better relationship between teacher and child
- younger children often get more individual attention when the older half of the class are doing their own independent work. In a class entirely composed of a single grade, they are all working on the same thing at the same time. In a split class, the older grade has more independent work to do, freeing up the teacher's time to focus on a much, much smaller group of younger children. This means, for periods throughout the day, a teacher/pupil ratio of 1:12, versus 1:30, in many classrooms.

I hope my points make sense, they are not very articulately set out (but the neighbour is blasting repetitive, mind numbing, dance music and it is melting my brain).

I have had a total turn around in how I feel about this kind of schooling, having looked into it further, so don't despair just yet.

E.T.

Some great advice already above. I've taught in a multi.class situation since I started teaching. I was never in a multi-class as a pupil so I was apprehensive but there are so many pros to it, all well listed in other replies already.

There is no way of splitting classes that will be considered fair by all parents. The Department won't give official guidelines so it's up to the individual school. If it's left to the teacher's discretion or judgment then some parents will argue with this. At this stage we split by age so that there's no individual responsible for choosing. It's not an ideal method but there just doesn't seem to be one to keep everybody happy.

I really haven't any idea what the TD was talking about, to be honest it sounds like they don't have any idea either!

At the end of the day, the school is going go split the classes in the best interests of the children. It doesn't suit the teacher any better as it means twice as much paperwork and planning. The children are still going to get the same level of teaching and education.

DGOBS

Thanks for all the positive comments, don't get me wrong, it is helping
I just have a child in total tears about it, everyone of her close friends are being left behind, and she now socially has to start from scratch, the other girls in the group have made it clear over this year that they don't want interaction with her (and well she knows it)

I am of course in a bad (mental) place about it all at the minute, and feel my child has been singled out, and the way it was done was not inclusive, which is one of the most disappointing aspects, when I asked the principle how and why decisions were made I was abruptly told, like it or find another school
(I had queried as to why the selection 'lottery' was behind closed doors)
and why a certain group was exempted from this lottery? seems so unfair do you not think.

My opinion to the split going further down the line is, I want to see what plans the teacher has for teaching the split group (as I do a huge amount with my child at home, using the phonics books etc that the school uses) but again I seem to hit brick walls when asked to be in this loop

byhookorbycrook

I don't understand what you mean by plans to teach the group?Do you mean the yearly schemes of personal planning a teacher does?You are not entitled to these.They may contain information on work with pupils who are having difficulties or that need more challenging work.

The work will be in line with the school policy for that subject. You can ask for the school policy document if you wish, but it will be in line with the primary curriculum, published on http://www.ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Early_Childhood_and_Primary_Education/Primary_School_Curriculum/

It's wonderful that you do lots with her at home, but using the same text as is used in the class will probably cause boredom and may well backfire.
I would look more towards reading for pleasure and educational websites such as starfall.com and games.

DGOBS

What I mean is, for the teacher to outline to me the overall plan that they are going to employ to teach the split class (ie, how lesson plans will be divided etc) surely there is no sensitive material there, I am not asking what plans are for specific children, just to see that the teacher has a developed strategy for the split class (as the principle has not indicated any forward thinking at all over the last year, as she directly caused this split)

Over the last year, the teacher has encouraged and supported the work we have done at home, it's not as if it's done without consulting with her

byhookorbycrook

Teacher will have to get to know the class and the personalties/needs therein before a plan of work can be put together. So it will be at least a week or two into the school year before she/he can answer your question in a meaningful way.An answer to you now will not ,in all probabilites, be reflected in reality. This is the reason teachers do termly or yearly outlines of work ,but then break it down more specifically into weekly or fortnightly plans.

lily09

DGOBS wrote: »

What I mean is, for the teacher to outline to me the overall plan that they are going to employ to teach the split class (ie, how lesson plans will be divided etc) surely there is no sensitive material there, I am not asking what plans are for specific children, just to see that the teacher has a developed strategy for the split class (as the principle has not indicated any forward thinking at all over the last year, as she directly caused this split)

Over the last year, the teacher has encouraged and supported the work we have done at home, it's not as if it's done without consulting with her

Personally I would not provide a parent with my detailed termly notes. I will of course speak to anyone and discuss concerns.Things happen that means notes have to change, (last week our history and geography were changed to reflect the state visits) and parents would then think that the work was not being covered properly.
The teacher will have their own strategy for teaching a mixed class and the curriculum will be properly implemented.
It will however as I know change on a regular basis as things come to light. For eg this years lower class are extremly competent and their independent work can be much more intense, last year this was impossible.

DGOBS

Lilly09, you hit the nail...'the strategy' is what I am after, not the daily/weekly details.....I just want some feedback from the teacher to see how they intend to deal with this class...I think it's a reasonable request

Just to give you an insight into why I am so concerned, is both the principle and the teacher said, "the split is not an ideal situation, and the parents will be expected to compensate for any shortfall in class time'

It doesn't exactly instill confidence does it!
(as I said earlier I do this eitherway and alway do lots of homework to ensure the days/weeks lesson is fully learned and understood by my child)

lily09

DGOBS wrote: »

Lilly09, you hit the nail...'the strategy' is what I am after, not the daily/weekly details.....I just want some feedback from the teacher to see how they intend to deal with this class...I think it's a reasonable request

Just to give you an insight into why I am so concerned, is both the principle and the teacher said, "the split is not an ideal situation, and the parents will be expected to compensate for any shortfall in class time'

It doesn't exactly instill confidence does it!
(as I said earlier I do this eitherway and alway do lots of homework to ensure the days/weeks lesson is fully learned and understood by my child)

Ok, I thought you were talking about a different set of plans altogether.
Can I ask is this the only multiclass in the school? Just that our school is all multiclasses (small and rural) and the principal would never talk about it not being an ideal situation. Also will the teacher have had experience teaching multiclasses.Not that this is necessary just that if s/he hasnt they mightnt be able to give you answers straight away. Honestly I think this principal is very unfair in saying that parents will need to compensate for shortfall in classtime. I would have no problem at all in covering the entire curriculum in the year.By all means parents could work away with their children at home but not have to do so.

uriah

It is not a good idea to teach your child at home using the books the teacher uses in class. The most valuable contribution you can make to your child's learning is to

talk to her all the time
listen to her, answer her questions
read to her. Talk to her about what you read.
Tell her stories.
Teach her all the nursery rhymes you know.Have her with you when doing household tasks. Explain what you are doing and why. Let her help you.
Talk to her about the days of the week...which day each day is, what you are going to do on saturday.
Talk to her about the months and the seasons.
Refer to the time regularly. Have a clock in her room.
Take her shopping. Let her help you weighing items. Make her aware of money.
Give her some money of her own (various coins) and let her buy her own treats and pay for them.

Let her mess with water. Take her on walks and teach her the names of the trees and wildflowers and the birds.

Honestly, she will learn her phonics in school, and the teacher will let you know if she needs extra help. In the meantime, all the things I mention will be the greatest education she will ever get.

byhookorbycrook

DGOBS wrote: »

Just to give you an insight into why I am so concerned, is both the principle and the teacher said, "the split is not an ideal situation, and the parents will be expected to compensate for any shortfall in class time'

Good heavens, just saw this bit!!Ok, maybe you need to be more concerned that I initially thought if a principal is undermining the teacher before she begins !!

uriah

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Good heavens, just saw this bit!!Ok, maybe you need to be more concerned that I initially thought if a principal is undermining the teacher before she begins !!

I'm also astounded that any principal said this. This principal must be very inexperienced, as this is complete rubbish. If the principal really believed this, parents would indeed have a serious reason to claim discrimination.

E.T.

There isn't a magic strategy for teaching multi-classes, it's basically the same as any class, but it does need a lot more organisation.

Teachers don't generally do specific lesson plans for each subject, we do yearly schemes which give a broad outline of what will be covered over the year. We also do fortnightly schemes which detail content, aims and objectives, integration, linkage, methodologies to be used, and any equipment/books needed. We all work from the same curriculum.

Any planning done by teachers is sensitive as it will detail how they will cater for different abilities in the classroom. Specific children may not be named, but I would not be comfortable showing any of this paperwork to a parent because it is not appropriate to show parents that I have a child in my class with ADHD/Mild General Learning Difficulty/ etc unless it is their own child.

What I generally do is introduce the topic eg addition using a whole class teaching method, demonstrating using concrete objects, then get the children doing group work or a page from their reader on the topic. The same as with a single class, the teacher will go around checking how all the groups/individuals are getting on with the work. If someone is struggling I'll spend more time with them, and all of the children have folders of work at their own level, so if they're finished, they go on to this work which I check later.

The huge advantage of a mixed class is that you can mix children from the different classes so easily, and without drawing attention to different abilities.

English, Irish and Maths always get separate work levels, but for some things like music, I rotate yearly plans so I never do the same song 2 years in a row. For Art I introduce the concept with the younger class then build on what we've already done with the older children.

Any good teacher will be doing this automatically with their class, whether single or multi-class. The days of teaching one "class" as a whole are long gone.

It sounds like the principal and teacher made a right mess of explaining the whole concept. Multi-classes are standard in the majority of schools in this country and have been for years in schools outside towns/cities. With the population rising, and the number of teaching posts being cut so much, multi-classes have been used in many town and city schools for a good few years at this stage.

DGOBS

Yes, I am seeing the benefits, from what I am getting here from you guys,
and am feeling more comfortable with the idea

The selection process was unfair also, as it was 2 tiered, 14 students were exempted from the lottery based on the fact they were the older 14 in the class, yet the other 26 were drawn from a hat (funny that it just happened to be 6 boys and 6 girls too!)

Surely it should have been drawn for the whole body of students, as to give 14 exemption is surely and plainly a discriminatory arrangement, any comment?

E.T.

It does sound a bit strange, but I don't know the specific needs of any of the students. The school may be trying to cater for different needs without making them public to parents, and using these 14 students could include specific children without drawing attention to them.

As I said before, there is no "fair" way to split classes. Doing it by age can mean you have weaker children in with an older class, when being in with a younger class would have been of more benefit, and vice versa. Splitting by name/alphabetical order is basically the same.

Splitting classes on the teacher's or teachers' observation makes more sense as it places the children in the more appropriate setting, but some parents are not happy with this.

Splitting on test results is not encouraged at all. This is different to the teacher's decision on ability as the teacher's decision would take other factors such as ability to work independently, and social abilities into account too.

If someone could come up with a completely fair way that would keep everyone happy, there'd be a lot of very happy teachers!

ShamoBuc

E.T. wrote: »

If someone could come up with a completely fair way that would keep everyone happy, there'd be a lot of very happy teachers!

Amen to that. Last year we had to decide how to split classes and it is a right pain. All the complexities, personalities, abilities, frienships etc have to be taken into account as best as we can. There is simply no way of pleasing everyone.
Upon hearing that their child will be going into a split class alot of parents simply start giving out believing it is automatically a disadvantage, which of course isn't necessarily the case.
With the cutbacks and losses in numbers of teachers, split classes will be alot more prevalent I believe.

Tayla

I was in a split class all throughout primary school and there were no problems at all, the teacher split his time very evenly and it was fine.
I was a clever child who got bored easily so when I was done my work I'd listen in to the older childrens lessons and sometimes the teacher would let me do the older classes work in class when I was finished my own.

Really it was only subjects like maths and English and Irish which were split because a lot of the other subjects like History etc the teacher would do it as a class, maybe he gave us different work or questions to do on the subject (I can't really remember ) but he still taught both classes the subject at the same time.

The children who needed a bit of extra help had a few hours with a remedial teacher each week aswell and that was done in a seperate room.

I personally don't like the term used as 'split class'. Multi-grade is a better term. While calling it a different name doesn't change the reality of your child's situation, 'split class' to me just springs up negativity in my mind, of everything being divided up, less of everything from the teacher's time and resources for the children etc. and hence the children's learning being hampered at the end of the day, when this is not necessarily the case at all.

OP while I understand you having concerns about this new situation the school has sprung on you and your child, I have no doubt in my mind that the teachers we have nowadays are highly capabale of dealing with multi-grade classrooms to plan, differentiate, strategise and implement an optimum learning encironment for our children, from children with special educational needs both intellectually and physically, gifted children, children of all different cultures and nationalities

the 12/12 ratio is a lovely number too, the teacher will be able to incorporate pairwork, groups or 3 and 4 too into his/her lesson plans, and the overall number of 24 is a relatively small number to have in a classroom, my friend is teaching 35 junior infants this year and it's wearing her thin, thank goodness she says the holidays are only around the corner

DGOBS

Thanks to all for you encouragement and help with putting my mind to rest

I am accepting this is happening and trying to make the most of it, and have
begun positive reinforcement of it with my child (first time she has smiled all week)

But as well, to be honest I am considering options with regards to discrimination with the 'selection process' as it was not done openly or
did not equally give each child a chance of either class
1) 14 children were exempted on age (being the oldest 14)
2) children who were twins were given the option of either class
3) children who were siblings were also afforded the same option

Extracted from 'Age Discrimination and European Law'
The Directive defines direct age discrimination in Article 2.1.2(a): ‘direct discrimination shall be taken to occur where one person is treated less favourably than another is, has been or would be treated in a comparable situation, on the [ground of age]

ShamoBuc

DGOBS wrote: »

Thanks to all for you encouragement and help with putting my mind to rest

I am accepting this is happening and trying to make the most of it, and have
begun positive reinforcement of it with my child (first time she has smiled all week)

But as well, to be honest I am considering options with regards to discrimination with the 'selection process' as it was not done openly or
did not equally give each child a chance of either class
1) 14 children were exempted on age (being the oldest 14)
2) children who were twins were given the option of either class
3) children who were siblings were also afforded the same option

Extracted from 'Age Discrimination and European Law'
The Directive defines direct age discrimination in Article 2.1.2(a): ‘direct discrimination shall be taken to occur where one person is treated less favourably than another is, has been or would be treated in a comparable situation, on the [ground of age]

To be honest I am not sure how you are accepting it and trying to make the most of it, if you are considering options with regard to discrimination - that reads like a bit of a contradiction to me.

The age discrimination thing can be a bit dubious as it could be argued that a child being in one class over another might not actually be ' a less favourable thing' due to it's subjectiveness - just a thought.

Glad your child is back smiling - the most important thing afterall!

DGOBS

Well, I accept the fact that it cannot be reversed and I have to get on with it

I don't accep that it was done in any fair way

The parents were asked opinion on the split before it took place,
We were told possibly a lottery, which we requested to be
Present for. We found out all had been done by a letter in our bag that listed all the 'losers' so to speak and found out about exemptions later

It discriminated to the end that all were not treated equally
My daughter has been taken from all her social group after
a year of making friends, and this will subject her to truma

E.T.

DGOBS wrote: »

Well, I accept the fact that it cannot be reversed and I have to get on with it

I don't accep that it was done in any fair way

The parents were asked opinion on the split before it took place,
We were told possibly a lottery, which we requested to be
Present for. We found out all had been done by a letter in our bag that listed all the 'losers' so to speak and found out about exemptions later

It discriminated to the end that all were not treated equally
My daughter has been taken from all her social group after
a year of making friends, and this will subject her to truma

To be completely blunt - you do not have any choice with regard to your daughter's class in a school. You don't get to choose which class she is in, or which teacher she gets. It's the same for any parent, in any school. It would be complete chaos if parents were to come in and decide which class their kids would be in. Your daughter could have ended up in a different class to her friends even if there was never a split class.

You wanted to be present for a lottery - would it not be discrimination if all parents couldn't attend? This would very likely be the case.

I wouldn't consider keeping the older 14 out of the hat discrimination - they could be a good bit older than the youngest in the class. In my room there's 3 1/2 years in age difference between the youngest and the oldest (2 classes). Having children of roughly the same age is generally (there will always be exceptions) going to make things easier as they would be more likely to be at the same stages of learning and social ability.

Write a letter to the principal and BOM if you want to get things off your chest and express your view. Talking about "considering options with regard to discrimination" is just going to put up a brick wall between you and any other parties involved.

overmantle

DGOBS wrote: »

Well, I accept the fact that it cannot be reversed and I have to get on with it

I don't accep that it was done in any fair way

The parents were asked opinion on the split before it took place,
We were told possibly a lottery, which we requested to be
Present for. We found out all had been done by a letter in our bag that listed all the 'losers' so to speak and found out about exemptions later

It discriminated to the end that all were not treated equally
My daughter has been taken from all her social group after
a year of making friends, and this will subject her to truma

Speaking as a parent whose children started in straight classes and were moved to split classes, much depended on how we, as parents, handled the situation. It just so happened that one of our daughters was one of 4 very close friends and she ended up in a class with none of the other three. Nobody died, nobody was injured. After some initial disappointment (no more) on our part, we realised that it was up to us to be positive and encouraging of our child. We explained that she would see her friends every day in the playground and after school as well. They are all still wonderful friends many years later but she also has many new friends. It could have been traumatic if we decided it was going to be. We could have decided that it was discrimination..... but we didn't.
If anything, our children who were in split classes ended up developing qualities of confidence and independence.
As parents, it is natural for us to want to control everything in our power for, what we see as the good of, our young children. Somethings are outside of our control and all we can do is the very best we can to support our children (and their school) in the most positive way possible. Using emotive terms such as trauma and discrimination doesn't augur very well, from what I can see.
Speaking as somebody who has survived split classes, they were very definitely NOT traumatic and our child was happy because we were happy.
In terms of the lottery, I can just imagine the chaos and hysteria if all parents had been present. At the end of the day, in this era of cutbacks, schools have a very difficult job allocating children to classes and it's an impossible task to give every parent what that parent thinks s/he wants. I'm sure your daughter will do fine but much depends on you and how you handle the situation. Positivity will make all the difference. Negativity will do likewise, with the opposite result.

ShamoBuc

^^^^^^^^^ very well written and accurate post.

DGOBS

OK, I understand and agree with most of the comments above....BUT

The draw without ANYONE representing the parents, just happened to magically
draw equal numbers of girls and boys, and there is so much more i would love to say here about it.

Basically the parents were asked to attend a school meeting, to discuss this issue before it arose, they were giver 2 days notice of a daytime meeting that meant alot could not arrange to attend (planned...or am I getting paranoid)
Then any suggestions put forward by those who did attend were shot down, and
those that weren't were just totally ignored, we were told we would be kept informed every step of they way (non of which happened) to the point a letter arrives in my childs schoolbag, with a list of those drawn for the split class, I rang another of those listed parents and she didn't even know yet!

The school here bares the responsibility for the back lash they now face from parents, as the handled this in an extremely poor manner, I a firmly believe the draw was done in a manner to divide and conquer by leaving 12 parent in the minority

Ayla

Alright, then be upset with the school's administration of this procedure, but you have to let it go for the sake of your child. As other posters have said, your child is picking up on your emotions & it's your responsibility to make the best of what might yet be a very good situation.

Your child can't separate your angst toward the administrators from all the rest of the feelings going on, and she's probably getting all upset b/c she thinks you're not supporting the new set-up. In other words, she can't see the light for all the stormclouds around.

If you want to make a complaint, do it quietly & in writing to the administrators. But for heaven's sake, put on a happy face for your poor child who thinks her world's over!

uriah

DGOBS wrote: »

OK, I understand and agree with most of the comments above....BUT

The draw without ANYONE representing the parents, just happened to magically
draw equal numbers of girls and boys, and there is so much more i would love to say here about it.

Basically the parents were asked to attend a school meeting, to discuss this issue before it arose, they were giver 2 days notice of a daytime meeting that meant alot could not arrange to attend (planned...or am I getting paranoid)
Then any suggestions put forward by those who did attend were shot down, and
those that weren't were just totally ignored, we were told we would be kept informed every step of they way (non of which happened) to the point a letter arrives in my childs schoolbag, with a list of those drawn for the split class, I rang another of those listed parents and she didn't even know yet!

The school here bares the responsibility for the back lash they now face from parents, as the handled this in an extremely poor manner, I a firmly believe the draw was done in a manner to divide and conquer by leaving 12 parent in the minority

We would never consult parents about how classes are arranged.
Firstly, you will never get all parents to agree to anything, so consultation would just cause controversy.
Secondly, it's making a big deal out of nothing.
Thirdly, the teachers know all the children involved, they know the ages and ability of all the children involved, they know the personalities of all the children involved. Any suggestions/proposals coming from any parent will, naturally, have what they perceive to be their child's interest/preference (not always educational) as priority.
The teachers will be able to see the bigger picture.

There is absolutely no way a school can make changes for one parent unless they are prepared to make changes for every parent, and this would be chaotic and completely unworkable.

A school should make the decision, inform the parents fully and get on with educating the children.

killbillvol2

uriah wrote: »

We would never consult parents about how classes are arranged.
Firstly, you will never get all parents to agree to anything, so consultation would just cause controversy.
Secondly, it's making a big deal out of nothing.
Thirdly, the teachers know all the children involved, they know the ages and ability of all the children involved, they know the personalities of all the children involved. Any suggestions/proposals coming from any parent will, naturally, have what they perceive to be their child's interest/preference (not always educational) as priority.
The teachers will be able to see the bigger picture.

There is absolutely no way a school can make changes for one parent unless they are prepared to make changes for every parent, and this would be chaotic and completely unworkable.

A school should make the decision, inform the parents fully and get on with educating the children.

+1

The only mistake the school made in this case was in consulting parents in the first place. The classes had to be rearranged in any case so they should have just gone ahead. Children would move on and adjust quickly. Unfortunately that will be more difficult if their parents are making a big issue of the new arrangements.

DGOBS

Of course I am not letting my child know whats going on behind the scenes, she's heard nothing but support for it from me?!?

Uriah, problem is, the teacher were not consulted (or so we are lead to believe) this was a principle and BOM decision, nothing here was done with
any regard to traits of the children.

My issue again, is children were not treated equally at all!

And as regards to exceptions being made, YES THEY WERE

For instance, one parent of twins whose children were on either side, one normal class one split class claimed they would have 'separation issues'
which normally I would understand, but they were in DIFFERENT classes last year too! but the principle yielded and allowed the parent to choose which moved where!

In my mind, the teachers there are all fantastic, and wish to do the best possible for the children, and I have huge amounts of time for them, and
would always try to give them my full support. They are a young energetic group that embrace new ideas and teaching methods and I always put my faith in them and throw myself into the homework and tasks they hand out

I just wish this whole sorry business had been handled in a thought out and professional manner by the management of the school, NOTHING was done to encourage parents into thinking of the set up in a positive manner at all.
I like suggested earlier am now referring to it as 'multigrade' as another poster pointed out 'split class' is a negative term

So my decision has been this, I have wrote and letter to the principle requesting a meeting, and out lined all the positive steps I could think of
to make the transitions into the new class an easy journey for the children concerned, with suggestions on many matters (lots taken from this post, thanks)

I have even suggested they start a percentile index on this class throughout the next number of years so as to have statistics in the future to show parents in the same situation that the impact (hopefully!) is a positive one on a students education and multigrade is maybe even a better option

Thanks to all for you help and perspective on this matter, as you may have noticed I have been in inner turmoil over the past few days coming to terms with this, if only the school had have the foresight to sit parents down and talk positively about these options, rather than...we're sorry but....