beef discussion group

caseman

in the journal it says its a recommendation for beef 2020 group this would be very welcome if it got the go ahead what was the entrance criteria for the dairy one did you need to be farming full time

Pharaoh1

My Teagasc advisor has already established a beef discussion group and we had first meeting in March and next one this week. There are suckler and non-breeding members part-time and full-time.
As of yet there are no requirement to bring data such as profit monitor or grass growth as there would be with the dairy groups but it is an attempt to get something going.
It's more like a farm walk really but the host farmer does provide some info for the handout and there is an agenda etc...
I've been surprised with the level of interest.

dryan

is there a beef discussion group grant? - much like the dairy one?

Pharaoh1

dryan wrote: »

is there a beef discussion group grant? - much like the dairy one?

Not as far as I know but I think that Journal article mentioned a setup like the dairy one where there would be a payment based on attendance and all the other stuff.

bob charles

I often wonder about discussion groups. why would the "better" farmer share their competitive advantages with everyone?

funny man

caseman wrote: »

in the journal it says its a recommendation for beef 2020 group this would be very welcome if it got the go ahead what was the entrance criteria for the dairy one did you need to be farming full time

there is no criteria for setting up any type of discussion group, just likeminded individuals with a will to work together to help the members achieve their goals.

JohnBoy

bob charles wrote: »

I often wonder about discussion groups. why would the "better" farmer share their competitive advantages with everyone?

Everyone has something to learn, and just because you're making the best gross margin in the area doesnt mean you're doing everything perfectly, there's always oppurtunity to learn.

I've always wondered why farmers should get paid for being involved in discussion groups. surely if the discussion groups are as useful as they're made out to be then they should be more than paying for themselves.


Actually on that note, how much do discussion group memberships cost? or is it just part of your teagasc fees?

caseman

funny man wrote: »

there is no criteria for setting up any type of discussion group, just likeminded individuals with a will to work together to help the members achieve their goals.

id say their would be some maybe only teagasc members full time farmers or something like that put this up to see could the dairy crew inform us what was it for the dairy discussion group

Muckit

I think the journal said that prospective beef dicussion group members could hope to get paid a maximum of €1000/annum.

the last €400 would be based on them carrying out certain specific tasks and providing figures/data, carrying out 2 of the following: profit monitor/ weight recording/ breeding at least 50% AI or 5*bull /herd health plan/ participation in a producer group.

Asking why would a 'good' farmer share their information is very narrow minded in my opinion. Why not I ask?

We're all on the same team. It's a gobal market, we're not competing against our neighbour over the hedge.

It's all the more important that we work together because we're farming such small tracks of land compared to those on the continent and in the US. Anyone farming less than 500 acres is a small operator on a global scale.

PMU

caseman wrote: »

id say their would be some maybe only teagasc members full time farmers or something like that put this up to see could the dairy crew inform us what was it for the dairy discussion group

dairy discussion groups were started in the early 90`s by farmers who saw their operation in NZ.early diss-group advisers were brought in at those farmers personal expense.the idea was to promote grass based dairying,something teagasc were not doing at the time.the DEP sceme was an idea promoted by the dairy farmers on the teagasc board to encourage all dairy farmers to get involved and learn the best practices for profitable dairying. its also a support group for farmers, enjoyable,and an outlet for people, many who work alone.(ps. the best groups are farmer driven not teagasc driven)

funny man

caseman wrote: »

id say their would be some maybe only teagasc members full time farmers or something like that put this up to see could the dairy crew inform us what was it for the dairy discussion group

as one of the dairy crew teagasc hasn't got a monopoly on discussion groups forming, the group i'm in came about by a group of dairy farmers from the one parish decided to get together to learn about grass measuring and they hired an independant facilatator, i wasn't in it from the start but there was no "criteria" to enter, the only valid condition for having to be a teagasc member to enter a diss group is if your facilatator is from teagasc (no such thing as a free lunch).

5live

caseman wrote: »

in the journal it says its a recommendation for beef 2020 group this would be very welcome if it got the go ahead what was the entrance criteria for the dairy one did you need to be farming full time

The DEP criteria for joining were attendance at 9 meetings by the farmer or their representative(son or daughter or manager) or 8 meetings and attendance at a specified open day eg moorepark/ballydague. You also have to provide a grass wedge each year and a cash flow projection and profit moniter for one year.

The fee is 450 euro by teagasc and includes one farm visit and some consultations by phone also. The payback is 897 euro(2010)

Just remember the 1k promised is subject to modulation and if more than the expected number of farmers join the payment will probably reduce too

Tipp Man

Muckit wrote: »

Asking why would a 'good' farmer share their information is very narrow minded in my opinion. Why not I ask?

We're all on the same team. It's a gobal market, we're not competing against our neighbour over the hedge.

It's all the more important that we work together because we're farming such small tracks of land compared to those on the continent and in the US. Anyone farming less than 500 acres is a small operator on a global scale.

I can see what your saying however as individual farmers we do compete against each other

As a beef farmer I am competing against all the guys around the ring - now if i have some magic way of making more profit from selling bullocks than every other farmer this means that i am stronger than everybody else around the ring and can buy the cattle i want. So if i join a discussion group and share my magic way of making profit then everybody does it and i loose my comparitive advantage at the ringside meaning more people will be able to pay more money for the cattle i want

The same can be said for milk - if i make more profit from milking than my neighbour then i can afford to pay more for the piece of land that's available to rent (or buy) a couple of miles down the road.

If farmers didn't compete against each other then sharing all your information would be great, in reality we do compete so IMO it is important not to let too much of that information into the public domain.

Of the top of my head i can't think of too many (any) companies that would openly share their trade secrets about what makes them more successful than their competitors

We are discussion group members

bob charles

Tipp Man wrote: »

I can see what your saying however as individual farmers we do compete against each other

As a beef farmer I am competing against all the guys around the ring - now if i have some magic way of making more profit from selling bullocks than every other farmer this means that i am stronger than everybody else around the ring and can buy the cattle i want. So if i join a discussion group and share my magic way of making profit then everybody does it and i loose my comparitive advantage at the ringside meaning more people will be able to pay more money for the cattle i want

The same can be said for milk - if i make more profit from milking than my neighbour then i can afford to pay more for the piece of land that's available to rent (or buy) a couple of miles down the road.

If farmers didn't compete against each other then sharing all your information would be great, in reality we do compete so IMO it is important not to let too much of that information into the public domain.

Of the top of my head i can't think of too many (any) companies that would openly share their trade secrets about what makes them more successful than their competitors

We are discussion group members

That's my thinking on sharing "some" information. If I have a comparative advantage I am not going to be shouting from the roof tops about it. And yes we are all in competition in a small way. wether at the mart, best crop of corn etc.

PMU

Tipp Man wrote: »

I can see what your saying however as individual farmers we do compete against each other

As a beef farmer I am competing against all the guys around the ring - now if i have some magic way of making more profit from selling bullocks than every other farmer this means that i am stronger than everybody else around the ring and can buy the cattle i want. So if i join a discussion group and share my magic way of making profit then everybody does it and i loose my comparitive advantage at the ringside meaning more people will be able to pay more money for the cattle i want

The same can be said for milk - if i make more profit from milking than my neighbour then i can afford to pay more for the piece of land that's available to rent (or buy) a couple of miles down the road.

If farmers didn't compete against each other then sharing all your information would be great, in reality we do compete so IMO it is important not to let too much of that information into the public domain.

Of the top of my head i can't think of too many (any) companies that would openly share their trade secrets about what makes them more successful than their competitors

We are discussion group members

why are you a discussion group member so?

Muckit

PMU wrote: »

why are you a discussion group member so?

to 'steal' other lads great ideas

Tipp Man

PMU wrote: »

why are you a discussion group member so?

It's for the nephew really - just finishing up his green cert so he wanted to join - the enthusiasim of youth (and the thousand quid which turned out to be less than 900)

I stand by me earlier comments though that on a local level we are all competing against each other

Tipp Man

Muckit wrote: »

to 'steal' other lads great ideas

I'll tell you one thing - there isn't much to steal from our group let me tell you. The vast majority of them wouldn't know grass land management if it bit em on the ass

87lk00

A christ lads some of this stealing information stuff is total rubbish. Im in a group and the best farmers for the group are the ones who tell everything to the group. We are food producers and we are competing for market share in the global markets. Your neighbour is not your competitor. Over 80% of our beef and milk leaves this island. Our competitors are farmers in other countries or export blocks. Our advisor is very good at enforcing this point. A good group involves sharing ideas and having the input of a good advisor.

Tipp Man

87lk00 wrote: »

A christ lads some of this stealing information stuff is total rubbish. Im in a group and the best farmers for the group are the ones who tell everything to the group. We are food producers and we are competing for market share in the global markets. Your neighbour is not your competitor. Over 80% of our beef and milk leaves this island. Our competitors are farmers in other countries or export blocks. Our advisor is very good at enforcing this point. A good group involves sharing ideas and having the input of a good advisor.

As I said previously it's not the rancher in Brazil or the large dairy in NZ that is going to be trying to buy/rent the land next door to me is it?? Or the good pen of cattle that come into the ring?? It'll be the local guys and if they are making more money than me then they should be stronger to buy the land and the cattle - it would be foolish to think otherwise.

The job of competing with the world beef and milk suppliers is the job of the coops, the beef processors and the IDB, not a couple of farmers in Tipp or Kerry or Donegal. They need to get their act right so that they can sell the top quality product that Irish farmers are producing. If the likes of Glanbia and AIBP aren't on top of their game then you can be the best farmer in Ireland but it will be no good as you won't have a market to sell it to

blue5000

Do you reckon kepak, dawn and aibp don't have their own little discussion group meeting every friday afternoon?:D

bob charles

I have to agree with tippman. I have spend allot of money through education and travel to improving my business IYKWIM. If you think that im going to give away my knowledge to every Tom, Dick and Harry you can think again. I spend most of the week buying animals and if I have a competitive advantage with say lower costs this means I can in theory pay more for animals than the rival bidder. If I give him all my information to my rival bidder then he now is able to match me on price, so it will cost me more to buy the same animals.

jeff greene

Discussion groups are a social outing, they replaced the creamery or the pub. The message is so cliche at this stage, grass, no meal, high EBI, blah blah, blah. Grass budgeting and profit monitor aside, which are easy, its a social outing.

Agree with Tipp man, a good topic for our next meeting might be to discuss the merits of leasing a nearby farm, no one knows yet its available except me, good free draining, fenced farm. How much per acre should I offer him? :pac:

bob charles

jeff greene wrote: »

Agree with Tipp man, a good topic for our next meeting might be to discuss the merits of leasing a nearby farm, no one knows yet its available except me, good free draining, fenced farm. How much per acre should I offer him? :pac:

Best to discuss it once you have the land taking for 150 an acre. If you discuss it first with your neighbour in the discussion group and he finds out its available prepare to pay upwards of 300

5live

Well fair play lads. I didnt think i would meet lads who were absolutely brilliant in every area of their business.;)

Yes you give some ideas and tips away but you also get others back. I dont know everything about grass growing but hopefully what i 'steal' from them making my farm better can be equalled by something they can learn from me or the next guy.

Tipp Man

I think the reason Bob Charles gets what i am saying is that, like us, he is in a mart a few days a week and gets to see first hand that a fella who is doing well is much stronger (or can be if he wishes) when it comes to putting the hand up

The dairy side is much more insulated from it as we are not competing as regularly against each other as the cattle lads who are doing it on a daily basis

But when that piece of land comes up for rent/sale may the best man win

pakalasa

I think all this rain is getting to everyone. A lot of grumpy smurfs around.:D

locky76

bob charles wrote: »

I often wonder about discussion groups. why would the "better" farmer share their competitive advantages with everyone?

a rising tide lifts all boats, everyone in a discussion group will pick up something from each other.
a bit narrow minded to think that telling 12 other lads/ladies in the group will skew the market to such a degree to affect your income:rolleyes: