Replacing School books with Ipads??

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Sponge Bob

iPads are too expensive and too delicate....just to get the thread back OT

ednwireland

Noreen1 wrote: »

Why does it have to be an iPad, though?
Can't the books be read on a Nexus 7?
It's pretty much the same spec. for half the price, so, unless the e-books are in a format that the Nexus 7 can't handle (doubtful! there's bound to be an app. out there somewhere) - then why shell out an extra couple of hundred?

this is apple we are talking about i can guarantee you apple will make sure these books are only available through the itunes store and are drm'd so thhey cant be read on another device

Shares in Apple, which is listed on New York’s Nasdaq stock exchange, rose past $660 in early trading today taking its stock to a new height and its market capitalisation to more than $619bn (£394bn).

Apple is now worth around $200bn more than the world’s second biggest company, Exxon Mobil. The oil major is worth a mere $405bn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/9488458/Apple-the-most-valuable-company.html

apple did not get to this position by allowing things to be produced in multiple formats and available on different devices, this is been driven by apple somewhere, and what incentives are been bandied around

avalon68

MagicMarker wrote: »

Kindles are pretty much useless when it comes to textbooks.

Why? Isn't there a large screen kindle that is used for PDFs etc? Far easier on the eyes than an iPad, and less likely to be thought of as a "play thing". Battery also lasts far longer. I barely get a few hours if I am reading something on iPad.

Stabshauptmann

MagicMarker wrote: »

Kindles are pretty much useless when it comes to textbooks.

Thats simply not true. It all depends on the file, whether its a textbook or not is irrelevant.
PDFs on Kindles are annoying, but format any book correctly and reading it on the kindle is a dream

MagicMarker

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Thats simply not true. It all depends on the file, whether its a textbook or not is irrelevant.
PDFs on Kindles are annoying, but format any book correctly and reading it on the kindle is a dream

I'm not talking about the format, I'm talking about the need for clear graphics for the purposes of education. The kindle is simply not suitable. Can you imagine a Geography class using a kindle to view ordinance survey maps? No, me neither.

And I'm an avid kindle user.

Plus kindles don't have the interactive capabilities of an iPad, not that I'm in favour of schoolkids using iPads.

avalon68

Why do you think the graphics wouldnt be good enough? They seem fine on the screen shots for the larger Kindle http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GYWHSQ/ref=famstripe_kkdx
Cheaper than an ipad, battery life waaaaaaaaay longer than an ipad, light, easy to carry, less attractive to thieves. Could be supplied by the school preloaded with the texts needed, no youtube or other crap.

sarkozy

I visited a school last year pioneering the use of iPads among its first class in its secondary school. It's a DEIS school - in a deprived neighbourhood - they're typically the kind of students who fall behind in life.

Each had an iPad. Their teachers had an iPad. I spoke to both groups and the headmaster.

For the families' parents, it makes sense. €150 per year for everything for five years and they own the iPad. That includes new textbooks, which costs a fraction of the cost of the printed books.

The additional element is interactivity - learning games that are of high quality.

Each iPad is contained in a sturdy protective hardcase.

It will take time to see their contribution to learning outcomes in this school, but the writing on the wall is clear - kids that are more engaged in learning via technology like this (because learning becomes sexy, as the headmaster said) the more the kids engage in the lessons and in learning. Older generations' brains are wired differently because of our education - why would we deny children learning in a fundamentally different informational environment?

Moreover, studies in one US state found that providing laptops to children of poor families even had a positive effect on their household's income. It turned out that their parents used the computer to become computer literate (marketable skills) and, specifically, to search online for jobs. So their poverty levels went down, and hopefully the life chances of those children have improved.

I think it's a great idea. Although, I would wonder if going open-source would be a better idea?

SerialComplaint

sarkozy wrote: »

I visited a school last year pioneering the use of iPads among its first class in its secondary school. It's a DEIS school - in a deprived neighbourhood - they're typically the kind of students who fall behind in life.

Each had an iPad. Their teachers had an iPad. I spoke to both groups and the headmaster.

Primary or secondary? How do they keep them charged during the day? Who manages their wifi network? How do they accommodate students with disabilities?

marco2011

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'm not talking about the format, I'm talking about the need for clear graphics for the purposes of education. The kindle is simply not suitable. Can you imagine a Geography class using a kindle to view ordinance survey maps? No, me neither.

And I'm an avid kindle user.

Plus kindles don't have the interactive capabilities of an iPad, not that I'm in favour of schoolkids using iPads.

I agree with you that Kindles or other E-readers don't provide the same functionality as an Ipad or Tablet. However, surely the most sensible solution is to give the teacher the Tablet/Ipad/PC and use an interactive whiteboard so the children can see the animations etc. and have a fully interactive class.

The students can use an E-reader which doesn't damage the eyes at it uses a different technology. A recent study shows that the average teenager spends 7 hours per day in front of a backlit, pixelated screen eg. TV, PC, Game Console or Phone. These devices cause serious eye strain as the page is made up of tiny dots, each of which is shining a light into the users eye. Even an apparently static page is continually being refreshed requiring the eye to keep re-focussing. Google 'Computer Vision Syndrome' to see what the American Association of Opthalmologists says about it.

I'm not sure it's a great idea to add all schoolwork, homework and leisure reading to this 7 hours per day - the eyes need some rest.

marco2011

sarkozy wrote: »

I visited a school last year pioneering the use of iPads among its first class in its secondary school. It's a DEIS school - in a deprived neighbourhood - they're typically the kind of students who fall behind in life.

Each had an iPad. Their teachers had an iPad. I spoke to both groups and the headmaster.

For the families' parents, it makes sense. €150 per year for everything for five years and they own the iPad. That includes new textbooks, which costs a fraction of the cost of the printed books.

The additional element is interactivity - learning games that are of high quality.

Each iPad is contained in a sturdy protective hardcase.

It will take time to see their contribution to learning outcomes in this school, but the writing on the wall is clear - kids that are more engaged in learning via technology like this (because learning becomes sexy, as the headmaster said) the more the kids engage in the lessons and in learning. Older generations' brains are wired differently because of our education - why would we deny children learning in a fundamentally different informational environment?

Moreover, studies in one US state found that providing laptops to children of poor families even had a positive effect on their household's income. It turned out that their parents used the computer to become computer literate (marketable skills) and, specifically, to search online for jobs. So their poverty levels went down, and hopefully the life chances of those children have improved.

I think it's a great idea. Although, I would wonder if going open-source would be a better idea?

What happens when the students discover all of the other uses for an Ipad eg. watching pornography or violent content, E-mailing, social networking, Skyping, recording their classmates & teachers. How exciting will class be then? The teacher has no idea what the student is up to at the back of the class - I'm sure it suits the teachers because the students will undoubtedly be quiet.

We'll probably hear of a survey next year that students in classrooms where Ipads were introduced are much easier to handle!

whippet

marco2011 wrote: »

What happens when the students discover all of the other uses for an Ipad eg. watching pornography or violent content, E-mailing, social networking, Skyping, recording their classmates & teachers. How exciting will class be then? The teacher has no idea what the student is up to at the back of the class - I'm sure it suits the teachers because the students will undoubtedly be quiet.

We'll probably hear of a survey next year that students in classrooms where Ipads were introduced are much easier to handle!

Mobile Device Management can lock these devices down so far that in essence the school can control what the devices are used for.

sarkozy

marco2011 wrote: »

What happens when the students discover all of the other uses for an Ipad eg. watching pornography or violent content, E-mailing, social networking, Skyping, recording their classmates & teachers. How exciting will class be then? The teacher has no idea what the student is up to at the back of the class - I'm sure it suits the teachers because the students will undoubtedly be quiet.

We'll probably hear of a survey next year that students in classrooms where Ipads were introduced are much easier to handle!

All legitimate concerns, but can't all of these easily be dealt with?

Fact of the matter is: iPads/tablets are not the answer to everything but are very useful devices and may improve learning and life outcomes.

This particular school was going it alone. The headmaster said that many schools are doing innovative things without support from the Department of Education. If the Department got engaged in such innovative learning ventures, top-level policy and strategy combined with economies of scale with procurement and implementation could work very well, addressing many of your concerns.

These devices are not a panacea for education challenges in Ireland, and clearly the teachers still emphasised writing and arithmetic the old-fashioned way. I refuse to be a luddite, anyway.

marco2011

sarkozy wrote: »

All legitimate concerns, but can't all of these easily be dealt with?

Fact of the matter is: iPads/tablets are not the answer to everything but are very useful devices and may improve learning and life outcomes.

This particular school was going it alone. The headmaster said that many schools are doing innovative things without support from the Department of Education. If the Department got engaged in such innovative learning ventures, top-level policy and strategy combined with economies of scale with procurement and implementation could work very well, addressing many of your concerns.

These devices are not a panacea for education challenges in Ireland, and clearly the teachers still emphasised writing and arithmetic the old-fashioned way. I refuse to be a luddite, anyway.

I think the danger is that people who know nothing about technology assume that it must be a good thing to bring it into the classroom with no evidence to support the assertion. Take a look at the article below http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/technology/at-waldorf-school-in-silicon-valley-technology-can-wait.html?pagewanted=all

This school made the headlines because it's in Silicon Valley - below is an excerpt from the article...

"The chief technology officer of eBay sends his children to a nine-classroom school here. So do employees of Silicon Valley giants like Google, Apple, Yahoo and Hewlett-Packard.

But the school’s chief teaching tools are anything but high-tech: pens and paper, knitting needles and, occasionally, mud. Not a computer to be found. No screens at all. They are not allowed in the classroom, and the school even frowns on their use at home.

Schools nationwide have rushed to supply their classrooms with computers, and many policy makers say it is foolish to do otherwise. But the contrarian point of view can be found at the epicenter of the tech economy, where some parents and educators have a message: computers and schools don’t mix."

I love technology, I own a Laptop, a Tablet and a PC. I spend most of my working day in front of a PC. My children use a PC at home in full view of everyone in the house. But I don't want to see my 12-year old using a computer all day in school, then after school for her homework and then for all her leisure reading. She already spends enough time with her phone, the PC at home and the Television. Apart from my concerns about eye strain, if she were to take the Tablet into her room I have no way of knowing or controlling what she is up to. She's intelligent enough to find ways around parental controls.

marco2011

whippet wrote: »

Mobile Device Management can lock these devices down so far that in essence the school can control what the devices are used for.

Yes you can easily lock down the device so that it can only be used for classwork. But of course you then need to unlock it before the student goes home - what school with 3,000 students will do this? If you don't unlock the device before they go home, you've removed any point in using such a device because you've removed 90% of the functionality!

However, we already know what's happening in the real world because these devices were in 1st year in 50 schools last year. Not one school even attempted to install parental controls, firstly because they don't know how to and secondly because it is impractical for the student to look for permission every time they want to download anything.

Capt'n Midnight

sarkozy wrote: »

That includes new textbooks, which costs a fraction of the cost of the printed books

Very interesting.

If these ebooks were printed on newsprint - like they do in India - how much would the physical book cost ? ( And off white newsprint is probably better for some childrens eyes than glossy white )

Medium volume photocopiers will copy for 1c per side and add 1c for the paper , a 600 page book will cost €3 to print out. When you get to Amazon print on demand it's even cheaper to produce, how much does it cost Ireland's Own to print their magazine ?


But the main reasons for the cost of school books here are that teachers choose books published by the Irish publishers and that they are frequently revised.

Capt'n Midnight

whippet wrote: »

Mobile Device Management can lock these devices down so far that in essence the school can control what the devices are used for.

How much does it cost to set this up properly ?

Include in your cost the consultancy fee / cost to send a teacher on training (and you can't learn security on a course, unless you have a background in it)

tekkiemetal

The first year pupils here in Carndonagh who bought the iPads have started school but they do not have any ebooks on them yet and were told that it will be another week before they will have them all. If a principal of a school goes to so much trouble to promote the use of iPads, like was the case here, then the least he can do is have them ready for children to use when they go to school. The teachers are now telling the ones who bought books to share them with the other pupils who have iPad but nothing on it. This is all wrong because now the children of families who choose to buy books are being victimised because of the lack of preparation by the school.

Overheal

Davekoolhill wrote: »

Folks, I seen today that there is talk from a Mayo school that there are plans to replace schoolbooks with Ipads.


What do people think about it? I would imagine it would save costs for families in the long run.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/will-ipads-in-schools-be-the-death-of-the-book/

Technologically-speaking only (not the politics) I am far happier this semester because I have 20 pounds of books that I'd otherwise have to haul around, digitally stored on a tablet that weights less than 1lb.

In the long run, eliminating print makes more sense. Also allows you to update content far easier, without costly publishing costs, and print-waste.

Adoption has been surprisingly slow, but has everything to do, IMO, with the book industry dragging it's heels because it smells lost profits, when they cant sell a 3rd edition of their book (now with 12 fewer typos!) for $300.

SerialComplaint

Overheal wrote: »

Technologically-speaking only (not the politics) I am far happier this semester because I have 20 pounds of books that I'd otherwise have to haul around, digitally stored on a tablet that weights less than 1lb.

But why a tablet? Why not a netbook or light laptop, with a full keyboard - so you have your books and your tool for doing coursework in the same place.

tekkiemetal wrote: »

The first year pupils here in Carndonagh who bought the iPads have started school but they do not have any ebooks on them yet and were told that it will be another week before they will have them all. If a principal of a school goes to so much trouble to promote the use of iPads, like was the case here, then the least he can do is have them ready for children to use when they go to school. The teachers are now telling the ones who bought books to share them with the other pupils who have iPad but nothing on it. This is all wrong because now the children of families who choose to buy books are being victimised because of the lack of preparation by the school.

I'm not sure that having to share a book is 'being victimised'. It might be a bit messy all right, and it sounds like they are a bit disorganised - but I don't think that having to share books for a week or two is a huge deal.

fenris

Moving to a digital format is just the first step, you start out by copying what you did with the old format then over time you learn better ways of using and accessing the information, it is an evolutionary process.

An exampler would be moving from traditional note taking to mindmapping of material covered, followed by collaborative mindmapping is something that large organisations are paying a fortune to learn. It is now potentially accessible through then use of a tablet type device in the classroom, if we want it.

Managing information is now a lifeskill in the same way as reading and writing, they sooner we get kids started the better, we will know that we are getting there when the homework eating dog of yore is replaced with a trojan or itunes and gets similar short shrift.

The big issue to me is who gets to be the gatekeeper for this chest of wonders, it is amazing to see the lenghts thta apple are going to in order to displace the likes of microsoft from this space, they are not doing it out of altruism, it is to build a critical mass sufficient to lock in the education system from cradle to grave.
It is inevitable that we go there, however we should seek to exercise control and extrace a sufficient price from the companies that are being so "helpful", schoolbooks need not be the next Shell style giveaway.

For anybody who has left their iphone / ipad behind and moved on, think back to how much fun it was extricating yourself from itunes, if it was that much hassle for a few songs thing of what it will be like when you are trying to get at course work etc. in a few years time when the current format is no longer supported or even accessible as you missed the email telling you that the DRM servers wll no longer allow you access to your work as it includes extracts from material that the DRM holder no longer has rights to.

There has to be a mechanism for data liberation into an open format accessible offline at some point - an off ramp for want of a better term.

So school ebooks are a good way to go, we just have to be aware that we are buying into more than a simple change of format from paper, it is a full system. with that in mind we need to ensure that the appropriate safeguards are in place and that a fair value is assessed against the opportunity that is being presented to a commercial enterprise for the provision of the technology.