Men's Health

Condo131

That's the Boards title of this forum. The subtitle is The Gentlemen's Club.

I used to post relatively regularly on this particular forum. For the past few months, I merely visit once in a while and rarely post. The reason: I cannot believe the level of guillotining of discussion on subjects relating to the Forum Title.

It appears to me, that relatively mild ( :rolleyes: ) conditions can be freely discussed, however serious health issues cannot be discussed at any level. Clearly nobody here, no matter how well qualified in the area, can offer specific advice - we don't know the OP involved, nor can we diagnose.

What we CAN do is offer advice as to where someone with such a condition can go to get advice AND support. There are plenty of support groups around that Op's can be directed to, but instead many threads are simply closed.

Closing discussions without offering any meaningful advice or support, imho, does NOTHING for the forum and is NOT helpful. It really annoys me to see posters asking for basic information and, however well meant, being brushed off.

Tbh, I believe that the Mens Health title should be changed to the subtitle instead.

- Condo131 - Cancer survivor AND Trained and experienced Cancer mentor

Bottle_of_Smoke

Condo131 wrote: »

What we CAN do is offer advice as to where someone with such a condition can go to get advice AND support. There are plenty of support groups around that Op's can be directed to, but instead many threads are simply closed.

I can understand the reason its not allowed. Even offering somewhere to get advice and support it making a bit of a diagnosis. Therefore saying "go to a professional" is the only thing the forum can safely advise.

As regards discussing confirmed conditions or disease there is a long term illness forum.

The forum is no longer called "mens health" - a decision was made to change it to The Gentleman's club. See the Soc drop-down menu. The Mens Health link is still in the drop down menu for Science. You may have a case for its removal from there as it is no longer the focus of the forum.

sentient_6

They should remove 'Mens Health' from the science drop down if it only redirects here & health issues discussion isn't allowed.

Otis Driftwood

sentient_6 wrote: »

They should remove 'Mens Health' from the science drop down if it only redirects here & health issues discussion isn't allowed.

Agree 100%.

I wasnt even aware that the hyperlink for the old mens health forum was still there as I have the forum subbed so dont enter it that way.I will bring it to admin attention right this second and get it changed ASAP.

Condo131

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Even offering somewhere to get advice and support it making a bit of a diagnosis.

As a trained Cancer support mentor, all I can say on this, is that this is utter nonsense.

While I've been unhappy with the Men's Health forum for some time, the thing that really annoyed was the closing of a recent post on Testicular Cancer, in which the OP asked four specific questions. Neither in his (?) original post, nor in his subsequent one, was there any indication that he himself had a problem with TC - he was looking for information. next thing posters jumped to the conclusion that he was looking for medical advice.

There is a world of difference between information and medical advice, yet many here, appear to see no difference.

All it would have taken was to suggest, for example, that the OP look up the Irish Cancer Society's website, or The Marie Keating Foundation, ARC or many, many more.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Therefore saying "go to a professional" is the only thing the forum can safely advise.

As I said above, it is possible to give information without advice. if someone is looking for information, telling them "go to a professional" is disproportionate.

Gentlemen's Club Charter

This forum is for discussion on any issue relating to general men's health, mental health, sexual health, the role of men in modern society, the pressures on men to succeed and anything else related to being a man.

However if your aim is is to help create a place where people can shine a light on Men's Health in general, and facilitate full, frank & open discussion, then by all means post away. General information and first hand experiences may be shared, but absolutely no medical advice can be sought or given.

In reading the above, the OPs posts on testicular Cancer, do not fall foul of the charter.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

As regards discussing confirmed conditions or disease there is a long term illness forum.

Neither my post nor the OP's posts on TC refer to confirmed conditions or diseases.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The forum is no longer called "mens health" - a decision was made to change it to The Gentleman's club. See the Soc drop-down menu. The Mens Health link is still in the drop down menu for Science. You may have a case for its removal from there as it is no longer the focus of the forum.

Until this evening, I was not aware that there was another menu link other than thro. Men's Health and I do not believe that I am alone in thinking that. Clearly, given the zero tolerance approach to discussing serious medical issues on this forum, the Men's Health link should be removed.

However I find this rather sad, given that Irish men, particularly younger men, are generally speaking, ill-informed when it comes to health issues. Time and again we have seen programs and campaigns to try to educate Irish men about health issues, so the demise of Men's health here is regrettable.

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Agree 100%.

I wasnt even aware that the hyperlink for the old mens health forum was still there as I have the forum subbed so don't enter it that way.I will bring it to admin attention right this second and get it changed ASAP.

No offence meant Otis, seeing that you, as moderator, agree 100% with a poster that "health issues discussion isn't allowed", you need to re-read the Forum Charter, particularly the sections I've quoted above.

Given the actual Forum Charter, as practiced, I suggest, in addition to removing the Men's Health menu choice, that the Charter sections referring to medical advice be reviewed and, again given current practice, no medical advice or information be allowed at all.

Over and out!

Otis Driftwood

Ok Condo.The below are my own thoughts.I dont speak for my fellow mods,I dont speak for the admins nor I dont speak for boards.


Yes,I agree it is in need of a reboot to clarify the stance on "medical advice" but in my opinion,doing that is no mean feat and is not something that can be done over night.Parts of the charter are taken from the mens health charter.Now I dont know if you are familiar with that forum as it was however from what I can remember (as a user,I never modded it and didnt really frequent it) nearly every second thread was someone asking for advice on various ailments/medical conditions which are simply not permitted however the forum itself had a relatively low volume of traffic so it was easily moderated.

Its difficult to qualify when someone is looking for medical advice and when someone is just asking a question.

For example

I got kicked in the nuts yesterday and am in alot of pain,should I be worried?

is easy to see that the person is seeking medical advice therefore they should be directed to see their GP and the thread would be locked.

On the other side a user posts

Hypothetically speaking,if you got kicked in the nuts and were in pain,would you be worried?

It could be a genuinely hypothetical question but it could also be seen to be someone sneakily trying to get medical advice.

I know the two above examples are pretty simplistic but Im sure that you can appreciate that many of the threads that crop arent as cut and dry.

I disagree that the recently closed TC thread was wrongly closed.In my estimation it was very similar to the second question I made up above.Maybe the OP was just curious but maybe he had found a lump so the only logical thing is to close the thread and advise him to seek professional examination if he had.Its a potential minefield that the site doesnt need.If people cant see that then there is not alot we can do,the internet is a big place with Im sure thousands nay millions of forums that will give every type of information requested however Boards is not one of those sites and I doubt it ever will be.

There have been threads that have stayed open before (the circumcision thread being a perfect case in point) that have discussed in depth medical procedures,after care for said procedures (a couple of threads on sporting injuries also spring to mind) but from the off it has always been a case (in the circ thread at least) that when people thought they may have a problem they were directed to get a consultation which they invariably did.

I feel you are looking at it very black and white though.For example,a guy is in recovery from TC and he posts asking for input from people that have had it.I would have no problem with threads like that as it is post diagnosis and the OP would have already had or would be undergoing treatment so a support or advice thread would,in my opinion,be fine.

Its the "what if" threads that are the problem.

Ive already started a thread in the admin forum to get the mens health hyperlink removed asap and myself and my fellow mods will look at amending the forum charter to bring it up to line with the gentlemens club in its current incarnation.

On a final note,thanks for the feedback.Its always good to get thoughts on improving the forum from its users.

sam34

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Its difficult to qualify when someone is looking for medical advice and when someone is just asking a question.
It could be a genuinely hypothetical question but it could also be seen to be someone sneakily trying to get medical advice.


I disagree that the recently closed TC thread was wrongly closed.In my estimation it was very similar to the second question I made up above.Maybe the OP was just curious but maybe he had found a lump so the only logical thing is to close the thread and advise him to seek professional examination if he had

i am really uncomfortable with the overt advice-seeking or the advice-by-stealth threads. in the one on the lump, its highly possible the OP had found a lump and was panicing. now, granted, most testicular lumps are not cancers and are not going to kill you, but some of them are. without examining the poster, none of us know which category his falls into. therefore, any comment about it likely being harmless, however well meant is inappropriate and unhelpful. the OP might look at the post, particularly if its posted by Condo who ends posts with "cancer survivor and trained mentor" and think "that guy seems to know what he's talking about and he says its probably fine" and decide based on that not to do anything about it, or they might look at the fact that I mod health sci and LTI and deduce i am a doctor and assume if i say "its probably a harmless cyst" that they dont need to pursue it further.

we simply cannot justify making comments on peoples personal medical/health situations that may be construed as advice- there is too much at stake for the posters.

folan

if we cant discuss issues around mens health, why are we allowed discuss legal issues such as child benifits etc or mental health? Surely, as these can be very sensitive issues which should also be dealt with by professionals, they should be treated in the same manner?

I have to say, Im with Condo131 on this.

folan

sam34 wrote: »

we simply cannot justify making comments on peoples personal medical/health situations that may be construed as advice- there is too much at stake for the posters.

why is there a thread called "Circumcision advice needed" so?

sam34

folan wrote: »

why is there a thread called "Circumcision advice needed" so?

if you read that thread you will see it largely consists of people posting their own experiences, pre-op, during consultation, post-op recovery etc.

thats not medical advice.

posters who post there looking for medical advice are very quickly directed to speak to their doctor.

sam34

folan wrote: »

if we cant discuss issues around mens health, why are we allowed discuss legal issues such as child benifits etc or mental health? Surely, as these can be very sensitive issues which should also be dealt with by professionals, they should be treated in the same manner?

I have to say, Im with Condo131 on this.

advice on diagnosis/treatment of mental health is not given here.

you will see evry little if any specific legal advice on child benefit etc here either. discussing the rights/wrongs/discrimination/parental rights aspect of it is fine, giving specific legal advice is not.

legal and medical advice is not permitted on boards. it baffles me that people cannot see teh logic behind that.

folan

hi Sam, see theres my issue with this rule. in that case its ok, but if Condo131 was asking to do the same with TC, it isnt acceptable. So theres the confusion on my end, as a user. i dont envy the job mods and admins have in this regard, but i do think it could be clearer. currently, i dont think its clear at all.

folan

sam34 wrote: »

legal and medical advice is not permitted on boards.

Rightly so.

Condo131

Otis, Sam,

I appreciate and acknowledge that a health forum, particularly a men's one, is a "can of worms" when it comes to moderation. As I've said, Irish men, particularly younger men, are an absolute disaster when it comes to both knowledge and awareness of health issues and also seem to jump in with (often inappropriate) "advice" based on their limited knowledge.

The reason I started this thread was to highlight the fact that the Men's Health heading on the forum, along with the forum Charter, is now defunct and should be dropped. A while back, in a PM to me, a mod said that, before Men's Health became subsumed/merged/whatever into The Gentlemen's Club, it was like a "graveyard" (due to lack of posts). Now they are lost among all the other threads, and now more and more medical threads are being closed.

In addition to the above, a zero tolerance approach appears to be practiced wrt any medical issue above pretty minor things. For example, a recent thread by Engrish? 'So I found a lump', in which he outlined his experience and stated that he had a) seen his GP and b) had an appointment with a consultant a few days later - he was not looking for advice/info/whatever - he was, effectively, telling others to look out for their own health. Nevertheless the thread was closed without any further posts, on the basis " in case anyone posts possible reasons for the pain". So....the OP's original post was permitted under the Charter, but the thread was closed in case someone else posted inappropriately!

sam34 wrote: »

Particularly if its posted by Condo who ends posts with "cancer survivor and trained mentor" .

Other than this thread, afaicr, I've only posted that once before, and only with advice (yes advice) that the OP contact one of the Cancer helplines.

I take referrals from Cancer helplines. These are 1 to 1 discussions, over the phone. NEVER, EVER do we advise - at best one can suggest. The main thing is to provide information and some reassurance to the person, if only simply by virtue of the fact that they are talking to someone who has already been through Cancer.

Clearly there is a filter mechanism in the referral process that is not, and cannot, be available on Boards. Nevertheless the level of support provided is orders of magnitude greater than on Boards.

In summary, I believe that the Boards policy, as implemented, renders any medical thread inappropriate and I respectfully suggest, as previously, that the mods need to review the reasons, practicality and appropriateness of allowing any medical discussion.

I guess what I'm saying is either you allow it or you don't. You can't say that you do and then guillotine discussion which is permitted under the Charter.

Dravokivich

Condo131 wrote: »

No offence meant Otis, seeing that you, as moderator, agree 100% with a poster that "health issues discussion isn't allowed", you need to re-read the Forum Charter, particularly the sections I've quoted above.

Charter wrote: »

However if your aim is is to help create a place where people can shine a light on Men's Health in general, and facilitate full, frank & open discussion, then by all means post away. General information and first hand experiences may be shared, but absolutely no medical advice can be sought or given.

You highlighted quite a lot there to draw attention to it, but with that, it takes away from the last part of the line "but absolutely no medical advice can be sought or given."

I've never seen a problem with general discussion and there have been a few topics throughout this forum over the last couple of months to do so. one which you've posted in also. (here)

Condo131 wrote: »

As a trained Cancer support mentor, all I can say on this, is that this is utter nonsense.

While I've been unhappy with the Men's Health forum for some time, the thing that really annoyed was the closing of a recent post on Testicular Cancer, in which the OP asked four specific questions. Neither in his (?) original post, nor in his subsequent one, was there any indication that he himself had a problem with TC - he was looking for information. next thing posters jumped to the conclusion that he was looking for medical advice.

There is a world of difference between information and medical advice, yet many here, appear to see no difference.

I take it you are referring to this post?

No one can tell that guy anything without seeing the lump itself. All his anwsers depend on what it actually is. The lump could be anything from puss to just flared/irritated tissue, but none of that speculation would be of much use to him.

Condo131 wrote: »

Closing discussions without offering any meaningful advice or support, imho, does NOTHING for the forum and is NOT helpful. It really annoys me to see posters asking for basic information and, however well meant, being brushed off.

As I've referenced before, there is no scope for providing advise. Telling someone to go see a doctor is not brushing them off. It is the most constructive feedback anyone here can provide.

There is a big differrence between the TC thread and the Discussion thread I linked to.

The TC Thread showed that the OP had a concern for something he found and was asking questions here about it.

The Discussion thread was about various techniques to check and issues to raise awareness about. If anyone had posted into this thread asking questions about a lump they found, they'd be told to go to a doctor.

Condo131 wrote: »

- Condo131 - Cancer survivor AND Trained and experienced Cancer mentor

I don't mean to be taking away from your experience or intentions, but that's not a certified PHD in onocology?

You've been through it and have a few things you can discuss, but the other guy really should be hearing it from a doctor who's examining him.

Condo131

Dravokivich wrote: »

The TC Thread showed that the OP had a concern for something he found and was asking questions here about it.

You need to re read that thread. There is no suggestion that the OP had a problem. It could be that someone he knows has a problem. From his post, I don't know if that is the case - you can't know that either, nor can the mods.

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't mean to be taking away from your experience or intentions, but that's not a certified PHD in onocology?

You've been through it and have a few things you can discuss, but the other guy really should be hearing it from a doctor who's examining him.

Maybe that's not what you intended but that's the way it comes across.

All information does NOT have to come from a doctor. Basic information AND information about where to get information and advice can be given. What is needed, on health issues, for the average, poorly informed Irish man is more information - NOT simply "see you doctor" as a response. There is a broader range of appropriate responses. See your doctor is always sound advice, but isn't always necessary when someone is simply looking/asking for information.

Wibbs

sam34 wrote: »

if you read that thread you will see it largely consists of people posting their own experiences, pre-op, during consultation, post-op recovery etc.

thats not medical advice.

posters who post there looking for medical advice are very quickly directed to speak to their doctor.

Eh wut? You could well argue(and I have) that thread is chock full of medical advice. Certainly compared to other posts/threads on here that get closed. Hell there are posts in there outlining surgical procedures for gods sake. Other posts poo pooing alternative options. A couple of online diagnosis' followed by claiming the ability to tell the medical future of another poster. Posters looking for and getting "medical advice" re their healing. If I linked posts from there I'd be here all day.

One example? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71915599&postcount=1129 I reported that post, said report was noted and no action was taken. If that isn't an online diagnosis and prognosis I dunno what is. Imagine that was about depression?

"Oh yes you've got depression judging by your posts, it won't get better, It will get worse guaranteed. Therapy may help but any honest shrink will tell you you need high dose lexapro, but you may get away with lower dose and counseling. BTW just so I stay within the rules talk to your doctor".

So pardon me if I don't buy the no medical advice allowed line. At the very least the "advice" part of that thread title should be renamed to "support". Or a rethink on how you define medical advice on the forum.

Condo131 wrote:

All information does NOT have to come from a doctor. Basic information AND information about where to get information and advice can be given. What is needed, on health issues, for the average, poorly informed Irish man is more information - NOT simply "see you doctor" as a response. There is a broader range of appropriate responses. See your doctor is always sound advice, but isn't always necessary when someone is simply looking/asking for information.

Precisely. After all that(and more) is all allowed on the aforementioned circ thread. For the record I don't object to the circ thread. I did object to the one sided nature of it for someone just wandering past looking for advice, but as a support thread for the procedure itself it's been a great and welcome success. I don't see how that can't be the same of say a male specific cancer thread. There are threads on long term illness that discuss medical issues and very well too.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Condo131 wrote: »

You need to re read that thread. There is no suggestion that the OP had a problem. It could be that someone he knows has a problem. From his post, I don't know if that is the case - you can't know that either, nor can the mods.


Maybe that's not what you intended but that's the way it comes across.

All information does NOT have to come from a doctor. Basic information AND information about where to get information and advice can be given. What is needed, on health issues, for the average, poorly informed Irish man is more information - NOT simply "see you doctor" as a response. There is a broader range of appropriate responses. See your doctor is always sound advice, but isn't always necessary when someone is simply looking/asking for information.

Wikipedia or national health websites give you any information you need that could be offered by posters here.

Perhaps there is a case for stickying health services on offer for men.

Though the thing is, in Ireland the health service nearly always goes through the GP, so not sure if there's much would fit into that sticky. Genitourinary health is the only exception I can think of.

Wibbs

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Wikipedia or national health websites give you any information you need that could be offered by posters here.

In fairness BoS you could say "Google it dufus" about a lot of the stickies provided in most of the forums on here. PI has a shedload of them and they have been useful to people. A one stop shop so to speak.

Though the thing is, in Ireland the health service nearly always goes through the GP, so not sure if there's much would fit into that sticky. Genitourinary health is the only exception I can think of.

True enough.

Giselle

Condo131 wrote: »

As a trained Cancer support mentor, all I can say on this, is that this is utter nonsense.
(

Can you outline what that actually means? Do you have medical training for example?

Condo131

Giselle wrote: »

Can you outline what that actually means?

The Irish Cancer Society Peer Support Programme works on the principle of personal contact between a person who has had a cancer diagnosis and a peer support volunteer. Carefully selected and fully trained volunteers are available to provide advice and reassurance at a time when a patient is most in need of both. Irish Cancer Society Peer to peer support

Giselle wrote: »

Do you have medical training for example?

No.

The Peer to Peer mentoring program deals with supporting those diagnosed with Cancer. The mentors provide practical information, emotional support and share their experiences with newly diagnosed patients.

[The above has been copied directly from the Irish Cancer Society website]

There is information on a wide range of Cancers here on the Irish Cancer Society website.

sam34

Condo131 wrote: »

Other than this thread, afaicr, I've only posted that once before, and only with advice (yes advice) that the OP contact one of the Cancer helplines.

I take referrals from Cancer helplines. These are 1 to 1 discussions, over the phone. NEVER, EVER do we advise - at best one can suggest. The main thing is to provide information and some reassurance to the person, if only simply by virtue of the fact that they are talking to someone who has already been through Cancer.

but can you not see that by posting "cancer survivor and trained Irish Cancer Society mentor" you will come across as someone who knows what they are talking about. now, in a previous thread, (which you and i subsequently discussed by PM) you said to someone "you probably dont have cancer". that, coming from someone who professes to have some knowledge and training in the area, may read as an "all clear" to someone who is nervous, embarrassed and doesnt want to bare his bits at the GP's surgery. so they may be reassured by that statement and thus not seek further help. in my mind, such a comment, while well-intentioned, cannot be allowed here.

Sky King

Indeed.

Simply saying Go to your doctor is by far in the best interests of all parties concerned, even if it seems a bit blunt to someone who is just seeking reassurance.

tbh

folan wrote: »

why is there a thread called "Circumcision advice needed" so?

that's a fair point, and it was made by wibbs as well. I've changed the name of that thread.

tbh

Wibbs wrote: »

"Oh yes you've got depression judging by your posts, it won't get better, It will get worse guaranteed. Therapy may help but any honest shrink will tell you you need high dose lexapro, but you may get away with lower dose and counseling. BTW just so I stay within the rules talk to your doctor".

First line of that (actual) post: You owe it to yourself and your wife to get your problem seen to.

Why didn't you include that line when you were paraphrasing the post?

Wibbs

sam34 wrote: »

in a previous thread, (which you and i subsequently discussed by PM) you said to someone "you probably dont have cancer".

:eek:

that, coming from someone who professes to have some knowledge and training in the area, may read as an "all clear" to someone who is nervous, embarrassed and doesnt want to bare his bits at the GP's surgery. so they may be reassured by that statement and thus not seek further help.

Most likely and worrying. When even the least informed knows cancer is an illness where even a few weeks delay can make a huge difference in outcome.

That said context is everything. Saying "in most cases lumps are benign so you probably don't have cancer, but get thee to a physic as soon as to allay your fears and to make sure" is a whole lot diff to "you probably dont have cancer" Fullstop. If the former was the context then PI and LTI and tLL needs an enema to clear such posts. A lot of government advisory stuff would also go out the window. Indeed go off and ban yourself as you said similar in this very thread.

kilkenny flyer wrote:

Simply saying Go to your doctor is by far in the best interests of all parties concerned, even if it seems a bit blunt to someone who is just seeking reassurance.

I actually agree with you. Up to a point I think it can be handled better. Too often it does come across as rude and lazy modding. Mea culpa I've done it myself in forums Ive modded. And in my case it was out of laziness or kneejerk reaction most of the time. "Oh shíte looks medical, better close it to be safe". Yea most of the time I was right, but a few threads got closed that didn't need closing, just more moderation with certain posters.

Perhaps a better way to handle it would be a sticky on health resources for men out there. In the same way in PI there are the stickies for mental health resources. So if someone suicidal shows up which is acutely serious they get their thread closed but are pointed (in a sympathetic tone)at the resources which they hopefully follow up.

Some consistency applied to this would be nice though as there's at least one thread here already that needs to be seriously pruned (and a shedload elsewhere on the site) by the very definitions outlined by the mods of this forum on this thread. I only mention the other forums because if this is the men's forum on Boards I would have thought the mens health aspect should be part of that? especially given the low attendance of men to their GP's.

Wibbs

tbh wrote: »

First line of that (actual) post: You owe it to yourself and your wife to get your problem seen to.

Why didn't you include that line when you were paraphrasing the post?

Oh so that made a difference? Right, so it's A-OK if I post medical advice in the form of diagnosis and prognosis and medical treatment in a reply on a thread about a guy worrying about a medical condition, so long as I preface it with "See your doctor/you owe it to your next of kin"? Oh right tbh musta missed that particular memo. Give me a break.

EDIT for clarity and moby users this is the part of that post I have questions about re the subject of this thread;

"You owe it to yourself and your wife to get your problem seen to. It will not get better with time, it will get worse, guaranteed.
The more stretching and tearing and infections, the tighter the phimosis will get due to the formation of ever thicker scar tissue.

If you are in the early stages of phimosis, stretching with steroid creams may help, but it is the real experience of many others (and honest urologists) that in many cases this provides at best temporary relief."

That's medical advice. "Guaranteed" indeed. Reported, acknowledged and was left alone by the mods. So like I say not exactly consistent. So where does my paraphrasing affect that?

PS it's not necessarily bad advice, but it is advice.

tbh

I'd advise anyone interested to actually read what the guy posted and decide for yourself if wibbs represented it fairly, in the context of the thread and in the context of the post it was in response to. I would say that your paraphrasing of the post is not fair, and I'll leave it at that.

Wibbs

Please do. Simple questions. Did he diagnose online? Did he give a "guaranteed" prognosis online? Did he suggest that urologists who may not agree with him(and his medical degree. Not) are somehow dishonest? I say yes to all three. That's just one post from that thread too. I feel bad singling him out as he's not the only one.

Like I said it's not necessarily bad advice, nor is other advice on that thread(and others on boards) but it is medical advice. Hell I threw in some of my own regarding steroid cream IIRC early on in that thread and I googled that. It's going since the start of 06 and the title "[medical procedure] circ advice thread" only got changed today (and fair play). Just because it's been a good thread overall and close to your heart doesn't make it any less medical advice. Hence I can see where the OP is coming from on instant lockdowns on other health subjects.

Giselle

Condo131 wrote: »

The Irish Cancer Society Peer Support Programme works on the principle of personal contact between a person who has had a cancer diagnosis and a peer support volunteer. Carefully selected and fully trained volunteers are available to provide advice and reassurance at a time when a patient is most in need of both. Irish Cancer Society Peer to peer support


No.

The Peer to Peer mentoring program deals with supporting those diagnosed with Cancer. The mentors provide practical information, emotional support and share their experiences with newly diagnosed patients.

[The above has been copied directly from the Irish Cancer Society website]

There is information on a wide range of Cancers here on the Irish Cancer Society website.

My only concern about you using a 'title' that has 'trained' and 'cancer' in it, is that the desperate or worried will see it as being a qualification, and your emotional support along the lines of 'its probably fine' will be read by same as 'its fine'.

Being trained to support someone in practical or emotional matters isnt the same as being trained to give advice on all aspects of a particular condition.

tbh

Just to point out re the name that it was originally a PI thread and, iirc, you were a mod of PI when it was started - certainly before it was moved.

Edit - have checked. You were only mod for three months before the thread was closed, so that's not relevant. Interestingly tho, and I genuinely didn't know it, the thread was started in 2006 and (still) is a PI thread longer than it is a GC thread.

Condo131

sam34 wrote: »

but can you not see that by posting "cancer survivor and trained Irish Cancer Society mentor" you will come across as someone who knows what they are talking about.

As I said previously, I do NOT use that signature when posting in response to someone who is looking for information or reassurance.

I DO use it, sometimes, when posting on threads that advocate Cancer awareness.

There is a difference between the two situations.

sam34 wrote: »

now, in a previous thread, (which you and i subsequently discussed by PM) you said to someone "you probably dont have cancer". that, coming from someone who professes to have some knowledge and training in the area, may read as an "all clear" to someone who is nervous, embarrassed and doesnt want to bare his bits at the GP's surgery. so they may be reassured by that statement and thus not seek further help. in my mind, such a comment, while well-intentioned, cannot be allowed here.

As in the original post, you have cut part of a sentence and are now paraphrasing it yourself and then leave your paraphrase as a standalone statement.

To everyone reading this thread, you have portrayed that post by me in a Totally different light to what was actually posted.

I am re-posting it below, without the edited phrase (btw, I don't have the edited section - you snipped it, but I almost certainly did not use the phrase you quote)

Condo131 wrote: »

Hi chrisr,
Couple of points:

You obviously are worried. See your G.P.!! If you do have a problem, it's not going to go away. Also, prostate cancer, along with many other cancers are very treatable IF diagnosed early.

You'll find a short list of symptoms here on the Irish Cancer Society website.

<MOD SNIP> you DO need to check out whatever it is that is causing the pain.

btw....a very high proportion of men (in particular) ignore symptoms and leave things until too late. Check it out!!

Condo(r)

Prostate Cancer survivor

Imho, if this is an inappropriate post, then I don't know what is an appropriate one. The OP was given a link to the list of symptoms on a relevant and reputable website, he was advised in the strongest terms to see his GP and he was warned of the dangers of not checking things out, or delay in doing so. I believe I covered all bases?

tbh

to throw in my 2c here, the phrase in your original post was:

You haven't posted much info, but it is highly unlikely that you have Prostate Cancer, but you DO need to check out whatever it is that is causing the pain.

the bit that was snipped was:

You haven't posted much info, but it is highly unlikely that you have Prostate Cancer,

3 points:

• I get where you're coming from with that statement, I recognize the purpose of making it, and I'm sure Sam does too.
  
• I think it's fair to paraphrase it as "you probably don't have cancer"
  
• I agree with sams decision to snip that line which annoys me because if I agree with that line, I also have to agree with wibbs, and I've already pretty publicly disagreed with him. that is not the first time this has happened

I have an idea but I'd like to discuss it with Sam and Otis first. I would ask you as well to please remember that we are genuinely trying to do the right thing by everyone and strike a balance between doing no harm and letting people get help.

Wibbs

And FWIW Teebs I'm not saying medical type threads should be removed. I think the circ thread has been good overall. The longevity of it shows that. I do see where the OP is coming from* though re some closures that may have borne fruit. IE would the circ thread have lasted long in tGC if it was started today? If you got a "twitchy" or drunk mod the forth post in that might be responded to as looking for medical advice. Closed. The site IMH has gotten a lot more twitchy on that score of late.








*Minus the "I am an expert" part.

Wibbs

tbh wrote: »

I have an idea but I'd like to discuss it with Sam and Otis first. I would ask you as well to please remember that we are genuinely trying to do the right thing by everyone and strike a balance between doing no harm and letting people get help.

I seriously doubt anyone would doubt that T

Condo131

To the Mods:
Lads we're flogging this to death here.... and going nowhere fast. We've gone miles away from my original post, which had the aim of getting you guys to
a)Review the Men's Health menu option - you've flagged that to be dropped.
b)Review whether medical discussions should be allowed at all. Charter permits it. Threads like this one say that you don't. So what's the story?

Wrt paraphrasing of a clause (particularly by a Mod) - not even a sentence, the problem is that the paraphrase is then taken as gospel, even by Mods - and a :eek: added! (I would too if I believed that somebody had said "you probably dont have cancer"). I repeat: I never said that! We may be splitting hairs, but I strongly believe that the emphasis in the paraphrasing tilts the balance completely and does NOT reflect what I meant.

tbh wrote: »

I would ask you as well to please remember that we are genuinely trying to do the right thing by everyone and strike a balance between doing no harm and letting people get help.

I know that.:cool: That's also why I find it infuriating the way the thread has gone away from the original intent, to a situation where the Mods & I are swapping 'missiles' about you said this here and I said that there.

tbh

Yeah - understood. Let us have a wee chat about the best way to progress and we'll update you soon.

Otis Driftwood

Condo131 wrote: »

To the Mods:
Lads we're flogging this to death here.... and going nowhere fast. We've gone miles away from my original post, which had the aim of getting you guys to
a)Review the Men's Health menu option - you've flagged that to be dropped.
b)Review whether medical discussions should be allowed at all. Charter permits it. Threads like this one say that you don't. So what's the story?

Wrt paraphrasing of a clause (particularly by a Mod) - not even a sentence, the problem is that the paraphrase is then taken as gospel, even by Mods - and a :eek: added! (I would too if I believed that somebody had said "you probably dont have cancer"). I repeat: I never said that! We may be splitting hairs, but I strongly believe that the emphasis in the paraphrasing tilts the balance completely and does NOT reflect what I meant.



I know that.:cool: That's also why I find it infuriating the way the thread has gone away from the original intent, to a situation where the Mods & I are swapping 'missiles' about you said this here and I said that there.

Condo you posted your OP little over 24 hours ago.You are asking us to change a not easily changed aspect of the forum and despite what you seem to think,we do have lives outside of boards so have some patients and let us have a chat about it,cheers.

Im locking this thread for the time being too.

Just bear with us.

tbh

Apologies for the delay in coming back with an update.

We've had a chat, and we've come to the following decisions which try to address the points raised on thread.

1. We've had the Men's Health redirect removed.

2. We will amend the "Helpful resources thread" to include as much helpful information as we can in a single, stickied post

3. Where someone does post a thread that is looking for medical advice, we will close the thread, but we will try to direct the poster to an Irish site where they may be able to talk to someone who can help them.

4. We're going to leave the circ. advice thread open, but I promise I will be very strict on editing it for medical advice type posts.

5. In that spirit, we will encourage similar threads for people who want to contribute to "My experiences with...." threads for male specific issues - e.g. Testicular cancer, ED, prostate problems etc. These will be strictly moderated and will just contain user experiences of the system - where to go to get help, treatment experiences etc. We'll add a line to the charter telling people how to get a thread like this started. Condo, if you'd like to start a thread like this, we'd be happy to have it.

6. We'll look for an extra mod to help us make sure that all posts are reviewed quickly, and problematic posts removed or edited.

I'm happy to leave this thread open for a short while if anyone would like to post their thoughts

love you!
mods.

Giselle

I think this:

tbh wrote: »

3. Where someone does post a thread that is looking for medical advice, we will close the thread, but we will try to direct the poster to an Irish site where they may be able to talk to someone who can help them.

love you!
mods.

...is an excellent idea.

love you too!