Legalize Cannabis Ireland

HarryPotter41

mikom wrote: »

Your choice..... and isn't it great to have that choice.
Many are not so lucky, and so must keep what they enjoy under wraps for fear of the repercussions.
Do you prefer to see people oppressed?
I notice you sidestepped the prohibition issue.

By the way.......

Coffee containing caffeine can cause insomnia, nervousness and restlessness, stomach upset, nausea and vomiting, increased heart and breathing rate, and other side effects. Consuming large amounts of coffee might also cause headache, anxiety, agitation, ringing in the ears, and irregular heartbeats.

Children: It may be unsafe for children to drink caffeinated coffee. The side effects associated with caffeine are usually more severe in children than adults.

Anxiety disorders: The caffeine in coffee might make anxiety worse.

Bleeding disorders: There is some concern that coffee might make bleeding disorders worse.

Heart disease: Drinking unfiltered (boiled) coffee increases the amount of cholesterol and other fats in the blood, and also raises the level of homocysteine, all of which are associated with an increased risk of developing heart disease. Some research suggests an association between heart attacks and drinking coffee.

Diabetes: Some research suggests that caffeine contained in coffee might change the way people with diabetes process sugar. Caffeine has been reported to cause increases as well as decreases in blood sugar. Use caffeine with caution if you have diabetes and monitor your blood sugar carefully.

Glaucoma: Drinking caffeinated coffee increases pressure inside the eye. The increase starts within 30 minutes and lasts for at least 90 minutes.

High blood pressure: Drinking caffeinated coffee might increase blood pressure in people with high blood pressure. However, this effect might be less in people who drink coffee regularly.

Thinning bones (osteoporosis): Drinking caffeinated coffee can increase the amount of calcium that is flushed out in the urine. This might weaken bones. If you have osteoporosis, limit caffeine consumption to less than 300 mg per day (approximately 2-3 cups of coffee). Taking calcium supplements may help to make up for calcium that is lost. Postmenopausal women who have an inherited condition that keeps them from processing vitamin D normally, should be especially cautious when using caffeine.


Scare stories!!
Boo!

Children: Having stoned stoned parents has been shown to be detrimental to the health and wellbeing of the child as there is no one to look after them properly. Its definitely unsafe for children to smoke cannibas.Anxiety : If you don't suffer from anxiety you are more likely to suffer from it after a few spliffs.Bleeding : gimme a break, there is concern?? I find cutting myself makes bleeding disorders worse.Diabetes : as diabetics tend to have strictly controlled diets I am sure this kind of problem won't be a huge issue.Glaucoma : Old age also causes an upturn in the likelihood of glaucoma. Shoot people once they reach a certain age to prevent its occurence?Thinning bones: also increase with age, perhaps same solution as glaucoma?Prohibition, not sidestepped, just a spurios argument as this was the banning of something that had been legal. You are quite right about not making the same mistakes as made in the past. Alcohol should never have been legalised, so lets not make the same mistake again.

mikom

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Children: Having stoned stoned parents has been shown to be detrimental to the health and wellbeing of the child as there is no one to look after them properly.

I agree.
Bad people are bad.

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Its definitely unsafe for children to smoke cannibas.

I agree.

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Anxiety : If you don't suffer from anxiety you are more likely to suffer from it after a few spliffs.

Not wholly true.
Many never suffer anxiety.
Many will especially if they over indulge, especially if they are new to the substance.
Many people get rowdy after a pint or two.
Some things don't suit some people.
If it doesn't suit you then stay away...... otherwise you are a fool.

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Bleeding : gimme a break, there is concern?? I find cutting myself makes bleeding disorders worse.Diabetes : as diabetics tend to have strictly controlled diets I am sure this kind of problem won't be a huge issue.Glaucoma : Old age also causes an upturn in the likelihood of glaucoma. Shoot people once they reach a certain age to prevent its occurence?Thinning bones: also increase with age, perhaps same solution as glaucoma?

As I said...... Scare stories!! Boo!
Is the message sinking in yet?

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Prohibition, not sidestepped, just a spurios argument as this was the banning of something that had been legal.

So there was never a time that cannabis was legal.
This is what you are saying....... seriously.
You do know cannabis grows naturally and alcohol must be manufactured (although it can naturally occur as part of decomposition of fruits etc.)

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

You are quite right about not making the same mistakes as made in the past. Alcohol should never have been legalised, so lets not make the same mistake again.

I like a few weiss beers.
Would you deny me and others that joy by criminalising alcohol because some can't handle it or you have had bad experiences with it?
Will my father a hard working farmer be denied 2 pints once or twice a week?
Will there still be altar wine or porter cake in your new utopia?

IsThisIt???

oscarBravo wrote: »

I have the legal right to dismiss someone summarily if they show up drunk for work. I don't see why I shouldn't have the right to dismiss someone for showing up stoned (or disengaged).

True if they show up for work drunk or stoned you do have the right to take diciplinary action but if you are suggesting taking blood tests, or something to that effect, that would test if they had smoked cannabis at all then I would disagree. If they came home from work Friday evening and spent the weekend, in there home, smoking to their hearts content and then showed up for work Monday morning fresh as a daisy would you have a problem that they had smoked. Why should you then have the right to take diciplinary action if it hadn't affected their work?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

alex73 wrote: »

WHAT A WASTE OF INTERNET SPACE!". Legalize Cannabis my arse!!. When I lived in Amsterdam is was the blight of the City and 80% of dutch hated the cafes there. It was a magnet of wasters.

Whoever stated this threat must have nothing else to do with their time. Get a life, get a Job.


(unless you are dying of cancer... then smoke as much as you like you have my full sympathy.)

Bit much? Anyway you know what would happen if cannabis was legalized all over the world? Nobody would have to crowd to Amsterdam to consume it. Imagine for a second that alcohol was illegal everywhere but Ireland. Well then of course we'd have people flooding in here to consume it but thats the fault of prohibition.

Anyway fair play to ya OP, I certainly think its a worthy cause.

mikom

I'll just leave this here....

ANNUAL AMERICAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DRUGS

TOBACCO ******* 400,000
ALCOHOL ******* 100,000
ALL LEGAL DRUGS ………….20,000
ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS ……….15,000
CAFFEINE ********2,000
ASPIRIN *********500
MARIJUANA ******* 0

Source: United States government
National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Bureau of Mortality Statistics

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
- Albert Einstein

IrishKnight

mikom wrote: »

I'll just leave this here....

How about the findings of Moore et al 2007 regrading "...that cannabis increases risk of psychotic outcomes..."?

mikom

IrishKnight wrote: »

How about the findings of Moore et al 2007 regrading "...that cannabis increases risk of psychotic outcomes..."?

You mean this........

The uncertainty about whether cannabis causes psychosis is unlikely to be resolved by further longitudinal studies such as those reviewed here.

However, we conclude that there is now sufficient evidence to warn young people that using cannabis could increase their risk of developing a psychotic illness later in life

Youth should be kept away from it.
I agree.
I wouldn't give tobacco or alcohol to youths either.
That is why they are regulated drugs.
Dealers do not ask for the garda age card.
In effect prohibition allows youths greater access to cannabis than if it were legalised and regulated.

PogMoThoin

Not everybody who takes cannabis is a layabout stoner, some live perfectly normal lives. There are many respectable people from all professions, doctors, dentists, solicitors, electricians, plumbers, engineers, Gardai and even politicians who take cannabis in the comfort of their own home and still perform skilled tasks day by day without any effects on their work.

alex73

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

There would be absolutely no benefit in tourism terms, what a fallacy. Also maybe ask the hard drug user what drug was the first they ever took?

100% spot on.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

100% spot on.

Alex, good to see you back.

alex73

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Not everybody who takes cannabis is a layabout stoner, some live perfectly normal lives. There are many respectable people from all professions, doctors, dentists, solicitors, electricians, plumbers, engineers, Gardai and even politicians who take cannabis in the comfort of their own home and still perform skilled tasks day by day without any effects on their work.

who? What percentage. Having worked with drug users biggest problem was depression, anxiety. It ruins lives of some who use it with other drugs. I have yet to meet a person who only smokes cannabis and takes no other drugs. Anyway it's not going to be legalise in ireland, there is not the political will. There are bigger fish to tackle instead of legalising drugs.

70 percent of adolescent smokers wished they had never started smoking in the first place. Most of them started while they were teenagers. Making cannabis legal would only make it easier for a new generation to become addicted. Why would we promote a society addicted to drugs?

Lukker-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13624303

But sure, what would they know, they are only the experts like.

Lukker-

alex73 wrote: »

who? What percentage. Having worked with drug users biggest problem was depression, anxiety. It ruins lives of some who use it with other drugs. I have yet to meet a person who only smokes cannabis and takes no other drugs. Anyway it's not going to be legalise in ireland, there is not the political will. There are bigger fish to tackle instead of legalising drugs.

70 percent of adolescent smokers wished they had never started smoking in the first place. Most of them started while they were teenagers. Making cannabis legal would only make it easier for a new generation to become addicted. Why would we promote a society addicted to drugs?

Legality /= level of users

Less people in Holland use cannabis than Ireland per capita.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

I have yet to meet a person who only smokes cannabis and takes no other drugs.

Most drink as well.

alex73 wrote: »

70 percent of adolescent smokers wished they had never started smoking in the first place.

That's tobacco....... you know, the physically addictive one.
But don't let that stop you muddying the waters.
It's generally good manners to link such claims as well so that people can see if you claim checks out.
In this case it was tobacco........ so it doesn't.

70 percent--The percent of smokers age 12 to 17 who wish they had never started smoking. (Statistics From the American Lung Association)

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13762-quitting-smoking/#ixzz1OEg8BHUd

You're not doing yourself any favors here.

Cocaine

I'm not from Mayo myself, however,
I don't think legalising more drugs is the answer.
It's bad enough with the alcohol now.
If anyone wants this stuff they can still get it anyway so what's the big idea?
Where would it stop, heroin?
Kids would be buying heroin with their mates for the "craic" and become instant junkies and die. Also even if it was strict with over 18s, other junkies would buy it for the kids for a few quid.
Look at the Dutch, not allowing foreigners to buy weed anymore.
Rightly so, the Brits go over and act like idiots when they get their hands on it. They're not ready for it, whereas the Dutch have a lot about them and are able to control their habit.
Ireland would be worse again, look at how many complete drunks you see in the rural pubs, gob****es who spend every last penny on a pint.
Where do they get there money, that's right the government, who tax us for it.
If people really want to legalise drugs they are probably only part time drug users anyway who just want easier access to them.
People don't like having to score a few grams of gear through the well known dealers in their area.
It's not going to happen anyway no matter what, you know that deep down. This is Ireland, you can't have an abortion in this country. Never mind buy some legal weed. It's a waste of time pushing for this for at least the next 20 years, in this country. You need another few European countries to push the boat out first and prove to this little paddy land that it can work, and be controlled. But even at that, the Irish tend to get hooked on such vices. They have no self control. Look at the amount of smokers who don't want to be smokers.
I could go on and on about how there is just no way in hell that it would ever either happen or work, so just forget about it and get it out of you head now.
If you want to get high, it's not hard. Sure LMF grows his own, you can do that. It's easy, I've often seen people growing plants easily in their own homes.
Only an idiot in my opinion could think that there is a chance of getting it legalised in this country, dream on. And I'm not saying don't fight for what you want either. But in this case it's like try to save the titanic. Do you see what I mean, you can't save something which is already doomed, a la - The Titanic. It's under the sea, sleeping with the fishes - literally. You see my point. You cannot save something from sinking when its already at the bottom of the ocean.
That's the case with your gear, it's already been flushed.
Just my 2cent.

mikom

Cocaine wrote: »

If anyone wants this stuff they can still get it anyway so what's the big idea?
If you want to get high, it's not hard. Sure LMF grows his own, you can do that.

What's hard are the fines, prison sentences, and refusal of entry to other countries once you have a criminal record.

alex73

mikom wrote: »

What's hard are the fines, prison sentences, and refusal of entry to other countries once you have a criminal record.

So don't get a record. Obey the law of the land. I don't get this obsession people have with Drugs. But then again addiction has the tendency to cloud reason.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

There are people who see absolutely no harm in killing someone who p***ses them off, that type of argument can be used for anything.

That is without doubt both the greatest non sequitur and the greatest strawman argument I have ever seen on boards. Not only did you avoid giving a proper answer, but you compared wanting to grow some cannabis to wanting to murder someone.

Lukker-

alex73 wrote: »

So don't get a record. Obey the law of the land. I don't get this obsession people have with Drugs. But then again addiction has the tendency to cloud reason.

Sure weren't the prison guards at Auschwitz just following orders?

Just because the Government says so clearly doesn't mean its right.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

So don't get a record. Obey the law of the land.

Do you follow every law blindly, never questioning.
Should the homosexual members of this fair land have refrained from sexual intercourse whilst it was illegal here.
Was that a just law?
Condoms were illegal.
Was that a just law?
The law of the land said suicide was illegal up until a short while ago.
Was that a just law?
Should the Irish have refrained from attending hedge schools when the British said not to teach Irish?
Was that a right thing to do?

This is more about a persons right over what they do with their body than just simply saying it is about drugs.

alex73 wrote: »

But then again addiction has the tendency to cloud reason.

So has closed-mindedness.

mikom

Lukker- wrote: »

Just because the Government says so clearly doesn't mean its right.

Ah now, in fairness the government always lead us in the right direction.
Shur the country is doing mighty.

alex73

Lukker- wrote: »

Sure weren't the prison guards at Auschwitz just following orders?

Just because the Government says so clearly doesn't mean its right.

Hmmm... Government not legalising cannabis = nazi guards. Let me have a think how I connect the 2

HarryPotter41

Lukker- wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13624303

But sure, what would they know, they are only the experts like.

The presidents of Colombia and Mexico have what medical qualifications exactly? Or are you referring to their inability to rule inherently corrupt nations?

Smcgie

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

The presidents of Colombia and Mexico have what medical qualifications exactly? Or are you referring to their inability to rule inherently corrupt nations?

I would be very interested in knowing your age.. But I could hazard a guess :rolleyes: wake up we are in a different era. I don't and never have taken cannabis but my mother has MS and she can get it prescribed (by doctors) to help with her condition. The biggest problem with legalising cannabis is that the state or large corporations do not profit from it in the same way the do with alcohol.

I can guarantee you if the government sought and found a route to Market that would give organisations huge profits, it would be legalised in the morning and sold in the domestic Market simply like alcohol was.

HarryPotter41

Smcgie wrote: »

I would be very interested in knowing your age.. But I could hazard a guess :rolleyes: wake up we are in a different era. I don't and never have taken cannabis but my mother has MS and she can get it prescribed (by doctors) to help with her condition. The biggest problem with legalising cannabis is that the state or large corporations do not profit from it in the same way the do with alcohol.

I can guarantee you if the government sought and found a route to Market that would give organisations huge profits, it would be legalised in the morning and sold in the domestic Market simply like alcohol was.

I wouldn't make too many presumptions if I was you, they tend to slap you in the face, and make you look ridiculous.I have no problem with medicinal uses for cannibas. Seeing as has been stated previously the issues we have in this country with alcohol and the massive issues around underage drinking in particular, we really do need another drug legalized to add fuel to the social problems we have on the streets most weekends.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

alex73 wrote: »

Hmmm... Government not legalising cannabis = nazi guards. Let me have a think how I connect the 2

Although its a strawman, it certainly contains more logic than your connection between growing your own cannabis and murdering people who annoy you.

alex73

Smcgie wrote: »

if the government sought and found a route to Market that would give organisations huge profits, it would be legalised in the morning and sold in the domestic Market simply like alcohol was.

No it wouldn't. The problem is not Cannabis, but the control of drug use. Making another drug legal in Ireland would cause a whole series of other problems.

Its regulated use for the Sick, as with any drug prescribed, is fine.

The problem with Drugs is the chain effect... Start with one and then moving to another.

Where do you stop? Does anyone honestly believe that if cannabis was legal that drug dealers would loose out? No they would move on to hard drugs.

What message are we sending to our kids? Legal cannabis, now its OK to smoke it.

I have seen people lose their jobs because of Alcohol abuse, getting people legally stoned is not helping.

In the Netherlands they Legalised it, no they are rolling back only allowing registered people.

PogMoThoin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Seeing as has been stated previously the issues we have in this country with alcohol and the massive issues around underage drinking in particular, we really do need another drug legalized to add fuel to the social problems we have on the streets most weekends.

The very fact that you made a statement like this proves you've no idea of what you're talking about and know absolutely nothing of the effects of cannabis on the user.

The social problems on the streets you describe are 100% alcohol fueled. People don't drink like they did 20 years ago, nowadays every second pint is topped off with an off the head short and vodka and whiskey are mixed not with lemonade, but with a stronger short or stimulant (red bull). Society has got to a state where its fully acceptable for people to get shítfaced drunk. We need to move away from this by moving in a new direction.

I'd even go so far as to say it starts with not allowing drinks corporations like Diageo, Heineken etc sponsor all the big sporting events. Guinness All Ireland Championship, Heineken cup, Magners League. Much like the banning of tobacco advertising, we should demand our Government and those of the rest of Europe do the same with drinks advertising.

mikom

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I wouldn't make too many presumptions if I was you, they tend to slap you in the face, and make you look ridiculous.I have no problem with medicinal uses for cannibas. Seeing as has been stated previously the issues we have in this country with alcohol and the massive issues around underage drinking in particular, we really do need another drug legalized to add fuel to the social problems we have on the streets most weekends.

You do know the effects of cannabis don't you?....... or maybe you don't
It's nothing like alcohol.
There follows an informative video.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwDRBm-qbQI

alex73 wrote: »

No it wouldn't. The problem is not Cannabis, but the control of drug use.

You're learning.

alex73 wrote: »

Where do you stop? Does anyone honestly believe that if cannabis was legal that drug dealers would loose out? No they would move on to hard drugs.

The government would gain a tax from the sale of cannabis which could be ploughed into the gardai, not to mention the time freed up spent busting people for 5 spots.

alex73 wrote: »

What message are we sending to our kids? Legal cannabis, now its OK to smoke it.

The current government message...... "Cannabis is evil and your life will go to hell if you consume it"
A person tries it once, then again, then again.
The say "hey this is nice stuff, and my life hasn't gone to hell, so maybe the government are full of shit". " I wonder what else they are lying to me about"
Trust in governance and law enforcement is lost under the current system.
Do you wish for it to continue?

alex73 wrote: »

I have seen people lose their jobs because of Alcohol abuse, getting people legally stoned is not helping.

Abuse being the operative word.
You don't abuse alcohol do you ........... one of your posts... "Free Bud App. Yesterday the barman was telling me about a free Budweiser App, Pulled out my phone, downloaded it, It say Connaught 21 degrees Free Pint. Entered Pub code and got free pint. No catchs, no buy one get one free. Well its very good marketing. And the pint was nice aswell. " http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72578437&postcount=1

I have seen my father run a 100 acre farm whilst supping two pints of guinness, twice a week.
Some abuse, some don't.
Hurting some people because of the problems of others, moves nothing forward and makes baby Jesus cry.
I'm sure you understand

alex73 wrote: »

In the Netherlands they Legalised it, no they are rolling back only allowing registered people.

For the second time in this thread, they never they legalised it in the Netherlands.
I explained that to you earlier.
Do you need a diagram?
Hard to believe a word that you post to be fair.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

alex73 wrote: »

Where do you stop? Does anyone honestly believe that if cannabis was legal that drug dealers would loose out? No they would move on to hard drugs.

I think you'll find they already sell them. Anyway I'm an advocate of legalizing most currently proscribed substances.