Legalize Cannabis Ireland

Gbear

Personally I do want all drugs to be regulated and legalised. I think people should have the right to choose for themselves what they consume. If it's heroin, fine, if it's bleach, fine. They're adults and can choose for themselves.
If their argument is "well we already have drink and cigarettes and look how much damage they do" then they are a terrible person and a hypocrit for not trying to outlaw those things.

But there's a debate to be had around that. They do actual harm and I accept that people find that to be a stumbling block.

There's no debate at all to be had around cannabis because, while by the same virtue of personal responsablity I think it should be legal, unlike harder drugs cannabis is completely benign by comparison so there shouldn't even be the hesitation caused by wondering about the harmful effects - there basically aren't any. It should be a complete no-brainer. We do a thousand things everyday - driving, ironing, walking, going to the gym, playing rugby, standing in trains with lots of diseased people - all of which kill absolutely ****-loads of people but cannabis with the staggering death toll of 0, is seen as deadly to all.

ScumLord

Oranage2 wrote: »

I dont really get this mentality that cannabis is ok to use but coke and heroin arent!

What's the big difference between them anyway.

There are people out there that work 9-5 and smoke a bit of heroin in the evening just like cannabis, and others will argue that cocaine isnt anymore harmful than cannabis

Who argues that? Cocaine will literally burn holes in your flesh with constant use. It's a highly addictive man made drug. Pure heroin isn't nearly as dangerous as street heroin but again it's highly addictive and your tolerances for both these drugs shots up pretty rapidly encouraging bigger and bigger dozes.

I'm not against anyone trying any drug but cannabis is nothing like heroin and cocaine.

Jackmcg

crazy cabbage wrote: »

in a study cannabis was found to be less addictive than coffee. cocaine and heroin were well above coffee. See a documentry called the union for more

Yeah yeah, we all know the active chemicals in cannabis aren't addictive.. but you can't deny the psychological addiction tied with cannabis. This is a genuine problem and can turn people from occasional smokers into people who feel the need to smoke every day..

Just because its less dangerous/addictive than other legal substances doesn't mean we should legalize it. There are still negative effects that can change people drastically (memory loss, laziness) and I don't think us Irish as a nation are mature enough to respect a drug like this..

crazy cabbage

Jackmcg wrote: »

Yeah yeah, we all know the active chemicals in cannabis aren't addictive.. but you can't deny the psychological addiction tied with cannabis. This is a genuine problem and can turn people from occasional smokers into people who feel the need to smoke every day.

You clearly dont know anything about psychological addiction. You can be psychological addicted to anything.

Gambleing is the prefect example. Slot mechines dont put a chemical into you to make you keep comeing back. a small minoraty become dependent on it and feel they need to gamble. That is to do with them and not the slot machine. The slot machine is not at fault.

You can become psychologicaly addicted to ANYTHING like eating cheesburgers. Should cheesburgers be made illegal too just becouse it is possible to become psychological addicted to them. That is silly.

It is thought that only 5% of the people who take cannibus are susapatable to becoming psychological addicted to it. Is it not better to legilise so that these people whould have to go through regulated channels where that can and will be refused it, than someone drugdealer of the streets who doesn't give a ****


Lets pretend that it is legal. GIve me one good reason based in fact that it should become illegal.

crazy cabbage

crazy cabbage wrote: »

You clearly dont know anything about psychological addiction. You can be psychological addicted to anything.

Gambleing is the prefect example. Slot mechines dont put a chemical into you to make you keep comeing back. a small minoraty become dependent on it and feel they need to gamble. That is to do with them and not the slot machine. The slot machine is not at fault.

You can become psychologicaly addicted to ANYTHING like eating cheesburgers. Should cheesburgers be made illegal too just becouse it is possible to become psychological addicted to them. That is silly.

It is thought that only 5% of the people who take cannibus are susapatable to becoming psychological addicted to it. Is it not better to legilise so that these people whould have to go through regulated channels where that can and will be refused it, than someone drugdealer of the streets who doesn't give a ****


Lets pretend that it is legal. GIve me one good reason based in fact that it should become illegal.

Sorry. Just to add to this point. So what if someone smokes every day.

Here is a documentry on someone who eats fast food everyday for a month. (just keep clicking for the following parts) This guy nearly dies. Makes me sick altogether what these fast food places get away with.

Now after watching that watch this one. This one is about a guy that smokes cannabis non stop for a month. sure there is 1-2 very slight down sides (as well as a few positive) but nothing of real note. (and if he had vaped i am sure that there would have been no side effects)

I dout if anyone really smokes everyday or as much as that guy did but even if they did so what???? That guy got on well.



PS. That isn't the best documentry for factual info and becouse he is a comeidean he plays alot of it up but just compair the people in the two videos. No comparason

Daninho

Jackmcg wrote: »

Yeah yeah, we all know the active chemicals in cannabis aren't addictive.. but you can't deny the psychological addiction tied with cannabis. This is a genuine problem and can turn people from occasional smokers into people who feel the need to smoke every day..

Just because its less dangerous/addictive than other legal substances doesn't mean we should legalize it. There are still negative effects that can change people drastically (memory loss, laziness) and I don't think us Irish as a nation are mature enough to respect a drug like this..

I don't know that people 'feel the need' to smoke it every day but they may well choose to as I did. You still miss the point, I have been smoking it 80% of the days since I tried it first about 18 years ago and it has had no negative effect on me I can assure you, bar the tobacco damage that I had been doing to myself before I ever touched the weed. It wasn't bad for me the first time, or the second or the 1000th time either. In fact, I chose to give it up for two years in among that space of time with absolutely no problem at all and no withdrawal symptoms. I then CHOSE to go back to it because I was in a financial position to do so comfortably and never regretted doing so. I have now given it up again only a month ago because I have a child on the way and I don't want to be spending money on it any more when I have a much more important interest to spend it on, and again have had absolutely no problem in doing that.

While I'm on a roll I may as well tell you that I have tried some of the class A drugs that heave been previously mentioned on this thread and I most certainly do know the difference between them and cannabis and the difficulty involved in turning away from them. I speak from experience and am not depending on any supposed research or hearsay about a friend of a friend of a friend. There are massive differences, I consider myself lucky that I was wise enough to know that that was a path I didn't want to be going down and was strong enough, eventually, to change course.

Your point about us Irish not being 'mature' enough to respect it I'd give some credence to but we are no more able to respect alcohol, our clerics no more able to respect the innocence of youth and our politicians no more able to respect the need for purity in their actions, as we have witnessed for many years now. Which of those seems the biggest crime?

Ciaran0

[QUOTE=crazy cabbage;79780101
Now after watching that watch this one. This one is about a guy that smokes cannabis non stop for a month. sure there is 1-2 very slight down sides (as well as a few positive) but nothing of real note. (and if he had vaped i am sure that there would have been no side effects)

I dout if anyone really smokes everyday or as much as that guy did but even if they did so what???? That guy got on well.



PS. That isn't the best documentry for factual info and becouse he is a comeidean he plays alot of it up but just compair the people in the two videos. No comparason[/QUOTE]

Good movie that! There's a funny bit when they test out ESP or some other silly supernatural thing and he scores better when high than he does sober. Just goes to show you that weed gives you superpowers

crazy cabbage

Ciaran0 wrote: »

Good movie that! There's a funny bit when they test out ESP or some other silly supernatural thing and he scores better when high than he does sober. Just goes to show you that weed gives you superpowers

Hahaha yea. His supernatural powers go up by like 1000% :eek:

christmas2012

legalize the plant and watch our economy grow,jobs everywhere in coffee shops and other related businesses this could bring in huge tourism,jobs and revenue..i wish governments would stop ooohing and ahhing and but and this and if and that ,and just get on with passing the bill,as they would have solved their debt crisis by now and job shortage,with a little extra to tide them over..enough arguing smoke the damn thing and get back to me,does this drug make you aggressive or antisocial like alcohol can do?NO.

Oranage2

Just because it works in Holland doesn't mean it'll work here.

It may be scientifically proven to be less harmful than other drugs but it is still harmful and by legalizing it it will only open a bigger market for young people that may not have tried it otherwise. take for example 'legal highs'.

And before im accused of being a prude, i have tried cannabis cigarettes as well as harder drugs. Though all in very moderate usage. And in my opinion they're all best banned.

christmas2012

And before im accused of being a prude, i have tried cannabis cigarettes as well as harder drugs. Though all in very moderate usage. And in my opinion they're all best banned.

there all best banned,based on what,im sure if you have tried a wide range of drugs you can attest to the fact that cannabis is relatively harmless compared to others?and it doesnt make you shout or aggro.right?

LostBoy101

Heh, good luck with that.

crazy cabbage

Oranage2 wrote: »

Jbut it is still harmful and by legalizing it it will only open a bigger market for young people that may not have tried it otherwise. take for example 'legal highs'.

The same can be said for coffee, alchol, tobaccoo, cheeseburgers ect ect.

Legal highs. I dont know anyone that would consider taking them.

If i cant convince you with sence can i ask you to watch this (11mins). This put all the sence to a catchy guitar tune

old hippy

christmas2012 wrote: »

legalize the plant and watch our economy grow,jobs everywhere in coffee shops and other related businesses this could bring in huge tourism,jobs and revenue..

Or it could lead to an increase in rampant crime and junkies? Something which you are concerned about?

Have you been to Amsterdam, btw? I have. More junkies than you'd see in Dublin, that's for sure. Which is fine by me, I have no problem with weed and other drugs but for those who flinch at the sight of every user, I imagine that may cause you concern?

Daninho

What legal highs? If you are referring to the products that used to be sold from head shops they were about the most dangerous thing a person could buy as they weren't tested at all so that is a moot point really. Furthermore, they were never sold or classified as legal highs as they were never expressly intended or 'legalised' for the purpose of getting high on. You'll be aware that they have been shut down now for that reason and that is absolutely a good thing. As has been mentioned previously in this thread the is a concern now about the dangers arising from various things being added to herbal cannabis now to bump the weight up, which only serves as another reason to regulate the market by legalising it.

I'll accept your word that you have tried cannabis and other 'harder' drugs in moderation. Equally I have tried many, and not with so much moderation yet I'll still argue the case for cannabis as I have not yet seen one logical reason as to why it should be illegal. You mention opening of the market to younger people but if you read the report that has been laid out in the case of Portugal you'll see that argument holds no water either.

tayto lover

Cannabis is highly unlikely to ever be legalised in Ireland. People are wasting their time debating this non issue even if it is the least dangerous of the drugs available here.

Daninho

Highly unlikely does not equal impossible. Also, we are debating the merits of legalising cannabis, not deciding whether we are going to do it tomorrow or not and whether or not debating it is a waste of time is a matter of opinion. You wasted your time posting that comment but that didn't stop you did it?

Gbear

tayto lover wrote: »

Cannabis is highly unlikely to ever be legalised in Ireland. People are wasting their time debating this non issue even if it is the least dangerous of the drugs available here.

Ever is a long time.

old hippy wrote: »

Or it could lead to an increase in rampant crime and junkies? Something which you are concerned about?

Have you been to Amsterdam, btw? I have. More junkies than you'd see in Dublin, that's for sure. Which is fine by me, I have no problem with weed and other drugs but for those who flinch at the sight of every user, I imagine that may cause you concern?

The Netherlands has a higher rate of consumption of cannabis but lower rates of consumption for Cocaine, Amphetamines, LSD and Ecstasy. I can't find data for heroin. I'd be astonished if it wasn't also lower.

In absolute numbers, the netherlands has a lower number of deaths than ireland - that's with about 2.5 times the population.

Sources:
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/stats12#display:/stats12/gpstab4a
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/stats12#display:/stats12/drdtab2a

crazy cabbage

Daninho wrote: »

Highly unlikely does not equal impossible. Also, we are debating the merits of legalising cannabis, not deciding whether we are going to do it tomorrow or not and whether or not debating it is a waste of time is a matter of opinion. You wasted your time posting that comment but that didn't stop you did it?

Exatly. I think someone could have already said this but If one political party got behind this and people would start to cope on. That party would win so much support becouse any other party that tryes to argue with them would be exposed as liers/ very uneduacated.

We have luke ming up in the dail but i dont think one man is enough. One party is all it would take

tayto lover

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Exatly. I think someone could have already said this but If one political party got behind this and people would start to cope on. That party would win so much support becouse any other party that tryes to argue with them would be exposed as liers/ very uneduacated.

We have luke ming up in the dail but i dont think one man is enough. One party is all it would take

Ming is smoking turf now. He saw the light.

N64

why would anybody support such a thing? The vast majority of people who smoke weed that I know are wasters. Oh and ming is a disgrace to Irish politics. I would like to voice my true opinion on him but I won't since I probably would get a infraction.

Gbear

N64 wrote: »

why would anybody support such a thing?

Oh I dunno? But I bet there's literally no reasons at all mentioned in the previous 50 ****ing pages of this thread.:rolleyes:

crazy cabbage

N64 wrote: »

why would anybody support such a thing?

This is getting stupid. Everyone has already said why we support it. If you cant be bothered read a cuple of the 50 pages why should we spend the next cuple of pages repeating what was already said countelss times?

Question to you is this: pretend that it is legal. Give me one good reason why it should be illegal????

Edit: One reason based in fact that is

Daninho

N64 wrote: »

why would anybody support such a thing? The vast majority of people who smoke weed that I know are wasters. Oh and ming is a disgrace to Irish politics. I would like to voice my true opinion on him but I won't since I probably would get a infraction.

I'd suggest to you you're running in the wrongs circles then.

And how exactly is Ming a disgrace to Irish politics? More so than Charlie Haughey? Bertie Ahern? Liam Lawlor? Michael Lowry? Brian Cowan? John O'Donoghue? James Reilly? Or the rest of the goons who write our laws who stand up there with big lumps of dirt on their foreheads once a year, tell us how great we are and then run off to Germany telling them we're all a waste of space?

Thanks for the insightful comment though, we're much more educated on the topic now.

Daninho

tayto lover wrote: »

Ming is smoking turf now. He saw the light.

No, actually. Ming has had a brain transplant in order to give up this disastrous, life-ruining and highly addictive chemical that has had such an horrific grip on him so that he could pursue a cause for the people of his locality that has been decimated by bureaucrats in Europe. Unfortunately for him he only finds himself in the company of self-serving egotists who would proclaim to also have genuine motives but they unfortunately fell into the gulf stream of self-preservation to such a degree that they forget what they get so handsomely paid to do. Now their biggest dilemma is which three pensions they can get away with holding on to.

crazy cabbage

Daninho wrote: »

Ming has had a brain transplant

I didn't think that was possible yet????

Daninho wrote: »

life-ruining and highly addictive chemical

Yet science would say that it isn't addictive. THC isn't addictive... who will i believe. you or science (see documentry call the union for reference. if you not willing to read a few posts before this then i wont post the link)

The rest of your post is giving out about people. I dont want to do that. I will repeat

Pretend that cannabis is legal. Give me one good reason based in fact why it sould become illegal???

^^^asked this a few times now and no one has an answer for me

N64

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0508/breaking32.html

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2007/07/31/uk-britain-cannabis-idUKL3173105820070731

http://www.abc.net.au/sa/stories/s923596.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2419713.stm

The only people I know who smoke weed are unemployed. I know nobody in a highly professional career that smokes weed daily.

Daninho

Crazy cabbage:

If you had read a few previous posts yourself you might have seen that I have been defending the use of cannabis and countering the argument that it is in any way addictive. In the post you quote from I was lauding the motives of Ming for giving up cannabis in order to work for the people in his community. I'll highlight the sarcasm for you next time, I thought it would have been obvious to anybody who has been following this thread. I'll also accept that you replied in haste.:cool:

neiphin

Daninho wrote: »

Crazy cabbage:

If you had read a few previous posts yourself you might have seen that I have been defending the use of cannabis and countering the argument that it is in any way addictive. In the post you quote from I was lauding the motives of Ming for giving up cannabis in order to work for the people in his community. I'll highlight the sarcasm for you next time, I thought it would have been obvious to anybody who has been following this thread. I'll also accept that you replied in haste.:cool:

tread going on for15 months,
your first post yesterday

Daninho

N64 wrote: »

The only people I know who smoke weed are unemployed. I know nobody in a highly professorial career that smokes weed weekly.

Well you do now. I have never been unemployed since I left college and now work as a senior programmer for a large multinational (whom I'm obviously not going to name here). Prior to college I was a fully trained tree surgeon and smoked cannabis pretty much all the time I was doing it. That's worth considering, by the way, for those who would maintain that smoking cannabis renders a person incapable of anything but menial tasks. Day after day I spent swinging in trees with a chainsaw and not once had an accident. Reckless I'm sure some will say, but I did it and you can look at it as a little experiment and take the results from it.

Also, in fact, I know many more smokers who work and always have done pretty much so that generalisation really doesn't apply, as generalisations don't...in general.

In any case, do you think they would openly volunteer that information to you out of the blue if they did?
I would be interested though to hear what great contributions you make to society, seeing as you are so quick to judge others.