Legalize Cannabis Ireland

ScumLord

Leftist wrote: »

disgraceful that christians or any religious group can restrict other people's lives and sad that holland of all places would allow that.

It's very surprising. Holland isn't as liberal as you'd think. One of those Christian parties won't even allow women members.

Leftist

ScumLord wrote: »

It's very surprising. Holland isn't as liberal as you'd think. One of those Christian parties won't even allow women members.

Surely to bring in such a change to existing rule you would need a majority?

How can they manipulate the government to act in more conservative way, yet if the majority wanted to loosen laws they wouldn't be given the oppurtunity.

ScumLord

Clanket wrote: »

What's the story, was it legalised over there? Including Barcelona?

Spain has local governments a bit like the states that can set some of their own laws. So it's just the Basque region as far as I know.

ScumLord

Leftist wrote: »

Surely to bring in such a change to existing rule you would need a majority?

Like our politicians needed to get a majority before they bailed the banks out? There are two Christian parties in a coalition which would give the Christian agenda a lot of power.

dttq

ScumLord wrote: »

Ya, there's a coalition that includes two Christian parties. Christians groups have always been at the forefront of the fight against drugs.

Not to mention the type of aul wans who ring in Joe Duffy. "But what will happen to the children Joe!?"

Leftist

it's a sad state of affairs that those people are still in a position to dictate to the rest of us.

poldebruin

Sorry if these have been referenced already.... two very thoughtful books on the subjects of decriminalising and legalising certain substances.
Too high to fail
A little about the book, it's writer and the research over at Boing Boing
David Nutt's (Former Chairman of the UK's drug advisory council) book, Drugs without the hot air.

keithclancy

Been living in the Netherlands for 5 years.

Not really too keen on Amsterdam, too many pissed up/stoned English speaking tourists.

Footpaths are too narrow, parking is expensive, beer is expensive, everyone is in a rush.

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

There is just over 13 million people living outside of Amsterdam (Meropolitan) you know

The Dutch are the same though, they only really talk about Dublin when they mention Ireland, but I suppose almost a third of the population lives in Dublin.

In Dutch terms though, Amsterdam is a tiny part of the Country.

EDIT: The largest Coffeeshop in the Netherlands was in Terneuzen down in Zeeland, they got shutdown in 2008 because they had more than half a kilo of weed on the premises at one time.

Don't know if its open anymore, but towns in Zeeland are much nicer than Amsterdam, theres a load of Coffee shops all over the place and weird sex clubs out in the middle of nowhere (strange)

Oranage2

Again as I've said before I would only like to see cannabis legalized if there are strict sale regulations.


Such laws I'd like to see are:


- 25+
- Must not have any children under 16
- Must have proof of income/employed
- Huge tax


As a tax payer I dont really want to be funding somebody's drug addiction, medical cost from said drug and cost of addiction rehab. Also I cant see the government selling 'dope' cheap which will have the same effect as black market cigarettes. All in all legalizing cannabis is a terrible idea.

keithclancy

Oranage2 wrote: »

- 25+
- Must not have any children under 16
- Must have proof of income/employed
- Huge tax

Yeh .... could see that on the door of an offie alright

Clanket

Oranage2 wrote: »

Again as I've said before I would only like to see cannabis legalized if there are strict sale regulations.


Such laws I'd like to see are:


- 25+
- Must not have any children under 16
- Must have proof of income/employed
- Huge tax


As a tax payer I dont really want to be funding somebody's drug addiction, medical cost from said drug and cost of addiction rehab. Also I cant see the government selling 'dope' cheap which will have the same effect as black market cigarettes. All in all legalizing cannabis is a terrible idea.

Where to start. Your rules are ridiculous. Do you like a drink? Hows about we impose them rules on you if you do. Or if you don't drink we could substitute in numerous other activities.

As a taxpayer why do you think you would be funding somebody's drug addiction any more than you already are.

So you come up with all these rules then you summarise by saying it's a terrible idea? Please, please give me 5 good reasons on why it's a terrible idea. And if possible, please explain how it's any worse then alcohol?

I know I'm wasting my time but anyway...

emul8ter25

keithclancy wrote: »

Been living in the Netherlands for 5 years.

Not really too keen on Amsterdam, too many pissed up/stoned English speaking tourists.

Footpaths are too narrow, parking is expensive, beer is expensive, everyone is in a rush.

Sounds a lot like my experience for Ireland.... just change up the words a bit.

Been living in Ireland for 5 years.

Not really too keen on Dublin, too many pissed up/stoned on heroin local scumbags.

Footpaths are too narrow, parking is expensive, beer is expensive, everyone moves like a god damned turtle.

ScumLord

Oranage2 wrote: »

- 25+
- Must not have any children under 16
- Must have proof of income/employed
- Huge tax

Over 21 is enough and I don't think anyone under that age should be allowed in. I don't know why you'd want to have 16 year olds come and sit in a cannabis shop (cannabis shops won't happen either) soking in the fumes. I don't see why your discriminating against people based on income.

Also I cant see the government selling 'dope' cheap which will have the same effect as black market cigarettes. All in all legalizing cannabis is a terrible idea.

Why would the government sell cheap dope or any kind of dope. Just regulate it and let the market decide what price it is.

keithclancy

emul8ter25 wrote: »

Sounds a lot like my experience for Ireland.... just change up the words a bit.

Been living in Ireland for 5 years.

Not really too keen on Dublin, too many pissed up/stoned on heroin local scumbags.

Footpaths are too narrow, parking is expensive, beer is expensive, everyone moves like a god damned turtle.

Eh ... yeh .. thats the point. :pac:
I've also lived in Dublin ... same deal really.

Thats why i said:

The Dutch are the same though, they only really talk about Dublin when they mention Ireland

Oranage2

Clanket wrote: »

Where to start. Your rules are ridiculous. Do you like a drink? Hows about we impose them rules on you if you do. Or if you don't drink we could substitute in numerous other activities.

As a taxpayer why do you think you would be funding somebody's drug addiction any more than you already are.

So you come up with all these rules then you summarise by saying it's a terrible idea? Please, please give me 5 good reasons on why it's a terrible idea. And if possible, please explain how it's any worse then alcohol?

I know I'm wasting my time but anyway...

1) Ok, I remember when those head shops were open, you'd have kids 12-14ish outside asking can you buy them some fake cannabis cigarettes. So what would happen is that you'll have these same kids asking you to buy the some 'dope'. Of course some will, but when 'dope' isnt strong enough for them then they'll move onto harder drugs. It's a fact that heroin users start with marijuana.

2) You can become cannabis dependent (ie. hooked)

3) People with un-diagnosed psychotic illness taking the drug and going mental on society.

Also I've never said it's any worst than alcohol but just like alcohol we cant handle it so to protect ourselves we should really make alcohol illegal and certainly not legalize cannabis.

Daninho

Oranage2 wrote: »

Again as I've said before I would only like to see cannabis legalized if there are strict sale regulations.


Such laws I'd like to see are:


- 25+
- Must not have any children under 16
- Must have proof of income/employed
- Huge tax


As a tax payer I dont really want to be funding somebody's drug addiction, medical cost from said drug and cost of addiction rehab. Also I cant see the government selling 'dope' cheap which will have the same effect as black market cigarettes. All in all legalizing cannabis is a terrible idea.

What an absolutely ridiculous post. You have no right whatsoever to determine what people do with their social welfare money if they are getting any.

Nor can you dictate to grown adults just because they happen to have kids under 16. Which is worse, a person with a 15 year old having a bottle of vodka in the house or a bag of weed?? The vodka is 20 times more dangerous, so do you support restriction of alcohol to people with under 16s too?

I haven't a clue what medical costs you're talking about, and I'm guessing you have no clue either. And rehab from cannabis use, that really is a laugh.

Your post typifies the ignorant rants of anti-legalisation brigade who really haven't a notion what they are talking about but still feel the have the high moral ground and can dictate to others. Your suggestions only look more ridiculous when you consider how unenforcable they are in any case.

Gbear

Oranage2 wrote: »

2) You can become cannabis dependent (ie. hooked)

You can become addicted anything. There is very little in the way of chemical dependency caused by cannabis. It is nowhere near the level of alcohol or cigarettes.

Oranage2 wrote: »

3) People with un-diagnosed psychotic illness taking the drug and going mental on society.

Because the only reason that doesn't happen right now is because cannabis is illegal and as a result nobody uses it. :rolleyes:

Oranage2 wrote: »

Also I've never said it's any worst than alcohol but just like alcohol we cant handle it so to protect ourselves we should really make alcohol illegal and certainly not legalize cannabis.

What do you mean "we can't handle it"? What does that mean? It's utter horse****. If somebody wants to drink their way to an early grave, it's their life and their prerogative.
If they break the law while under the influence of something they are just as culpable as if they weren't and we have laws that cover that already - drink driving, assault, public order offences.

The anti-cannabis arguments are a string of red herrings and illogical nonsense based on myth and alarmist, daily-mail calibre new reporting.

Gbear

Daninho wrote: »

You have no right whatsoever to determine what people do with their social welfare money if they are getting any.

I actually completely disagree. Our social welfare rates are farcically high.

It isn't their money so they should not have free reign to spend it as they wish.
The purpose of the dole is a safety net to keep people alive when they fall on hard times.

Frivolous spending like fags, drink or drugs shouldn't factor into it.

But that's a different debate.

ScumLord

Oranage2 wrote: »

1) Ok, I remember when those head shops were open, you'd have kids 12-14ish outside asking can you buy them some fake cannabis cigarettes. So what would happen is that you'll have these same kids asking you to buy the some 'dope'. Of course some will, but when 'dope' isnt strong enough for them then they'll move onto harder drugs. It's a fact that heroin users start with marijuana.

It's a fact that most drug users start out on tobacco and move on from there. Tobacco actually changes your brain chemistry so your more susceptible to addiction. Tobacco is the gateway drug when it comes to addiction.

3) People with un-diagnosed psychotic illness taking the drug and going mental on society.

There is only one confirmed link and it's between heavy cannabis use in those under 16 that are going to get schizophrenia at some stage in their lives. Cannabis will bring on the early onset of the condition. It won't cause anything to happen just bring out what's already there.

Clanket

Oranage2 wrote: »

1) Ok, I remember when those head shops were open, you'd have kids 12-14ish outside asking can you buy them some fake cannabis cigarettes. So what would happen is that you'll have these same kids asking you to buy the some 'dope'. Of course some will, but when 'dope' isnt strong enough for them then they'll move onto harder drugs. It's a fact that heroin users start with marijuana.

2) You can become cannabis dependent (ie. hooked)

3) People with un-diagnosed psychotic illness taking the drug and going mental on society.

Also I've never said it's any worst than alcohol but just like alcohol we cant handle it so to protect ourselves we should really make alcohol illegal and certainly not legalize cannabis.

1) The same way kids try to get alcohol from adults. Do you not think that's a seperate issue and that the adults should show some responsibility and say no. Just like they should with alcohol? And alcohol is more of a gateway drug than weed. Please link me to where you seen that fact "heroin users start with marijuana".

2) You can become hooked on a lot of things, including sex. Doesn't mean we should ban them. There will always be a certain percentage of people in everything in life that will get hooked. Should we ban these things because of a minority?

3) Yeh I can see it now. The beginning of the Zombie Apocolypse.


So you really believe that we should make alcohol illegal. Do you actually drink?

And that was only 3 reasons (if you could call them that).

PogMoThoin

Oranage2 wrote: »

1) Ok, I remember when those head shops were open, you'd have kids 12-14ish outside asking can you buy them some fake cannabis cigarettes. So what would happen is that you'll have these same kids asking you to buy the some 'dope'. Of course some will, but when 'dope' isnt strong enough for them then they'll move onto harder drugs. It's a fact that heroin users start with marijuana.

2) You can become cannabis dependent (ie. hooked)

3) People with un-diagnosed psychotic illness taking the drug and going mental on society.

Also I've never said it's any worst than alcohol but just like alcohol we cant handle it so to protect ourselves we should really make alcohol illegal and certainly not legalize cannabis.

I'm un-following this thread because those against legalising it keep bringing up the same old stupid arguments, each of which have been dealt with several times throughout this thread. It's no longer a debate, it'a a farce. One where one side won't listen to the other sides answers and explanations and keeps shouting the same old narrow minded shíte argument.

beerpong

Oranage2 wrote: »

1) Ok, I remember when those head shops were open, you'd have kids 12-14ish outside asking can you buy them some fake cannabis cigarettes. So what would happen is that you'll have these same kids asking you to buy the some 'dope'. Of course some will, but when 'dope' isnt strong enough for them then they'll move onto harder drugs. It's a fact that heroin users start with marijuana.

I know a lot of cannabis smokers and not one of them went on to heroin. This point is not a fact. Maybe some Heroin users smoked cannabis before they tried heroin but they probably ate cornflakes, does this make cornflakes a gateway drug??

"2) You can become cannabis dependent (ie. hooked)"

It's not chemically addictive. I agree that some people can become habitual users, usually not affecting their life in any negative way compared to say alcoholics, junkies or gamblers.

"3) People with un-diagnosed psychotic illness taking the drug and going mental on society."

This is a good reason to regulate and legalize it. Point well made....:)

"Also I've never said it's any worst than alcohol but just like alcohol we cant handle it so to protect ourselves we should really make alcohol illegal and certainly not legalize cannabis.[/QUOTE]

Making alcohol illegal was tried and tested in the USA. It led to criminal organisations, gangsters like Al Capone, lots of murders and the number of people who drink went up, alcoholism went up. Ridiculous post, try educate yourself, stop reading biased crap based on nothing more than preconceived ideas and look at actual evidence from other nations who have tried to deal with the same problems and what did and did not work. Decriminalizing drugs has reduced drug users numbers in the USA(alcohol), Holland(cannabis) and Portugal(Everything). Imagine a police force not stretched to its limits fighting organised criminals and that money being put into helping people. That's a different debate about decriminalizing all drugs.
Legalizing weed would lead to better understanding about the drug and probably decrease smoker numbers. It would also keep weed smokers away from drug dealers and known criminals....

Daninho

Gbear wrote: »

I actually completely disagree. Our social welfare rates are farcically high.

It isn't their money so they should not have free reign to spend it as they wish.
The purpose of the dole is a safety net to keep people alive when they fall on hard times.

Frivolous spending like fags, drink or drugs shouldn't factor into it.

But that's a different debate.

I agree that social welfare rates are farcically high and have said so many times myself but we can thank Bertie for that. However, when it is handed over to the receivers it absolutely is their money and they are free to do with it what they wish, whether they use it how we think they should or not.

The purpose of the dole is to provide members of society with income when they aren't able to source any for themselves. We have no right to dictate to them any more than anti-cannabis campaigners have a right to dictate to us if we should be allowed consume cannabis.

But you're right, that is a separate debate.

crazy cabbage

I think everyone is overplaying the smoking side of cannabis leagilisation.

There is millions of potintial uses. Will run through some of the main ones. Note that there are potentially thousands of sub cattogarys of each point. And yes i did do a little bit of copying and pasting

Food source:
Hemp Seed is far more nutritious than even soybean, contains more essential fatty acids than any other source, is second only to soybeans in complete protein (but is more digestible by humans), is high in B-vitamins, and is 35% dietary fiber. Hemp seed is not psychoactive and cannot be used as a drug. See TestPledge.com

Colthing:
[SIZE=+1]The bark of the hemp stalk contains bast fibers which are among the Earth's longest natural soft fibers and are also rich in cellulose; the cellulose and hemi-cellulose in its inner woody core are called hurds. Hemp stalk is not psychoactive. Hemp fiber is longer, stronger, more absorbent and more insulative than cotton fiber.
[/SIZE]I will just add a little bit to this. In america Billions of dollers are spent spraying cotton fields from the air. This is not nessery with the cannabis plant and is even known to put nutrions back into the soil. Hemp grows very well without herbicides, fungicides, or pesticides. Almost half of the agricultural chemicals used on US crops are applied to cotton. This is an instant saving of millions if not billions if farmers start growing this.

Wide range of Bio Fules:
According to the Department of Energy, hemp as a biomass fuel producer requires the least specialized growing and processing procedures of all hemp products. The hydrocarbons in hemp can be processed into a wide range of biomass energy sources, from fuel pellets to liquid fuels and gas. Development of biofuels could significantly reduce our consumption of fossil fuels and nuclear power.

Save the rainforests. Make paper out of cannabis plant:
Hemp produces more pulp per acre than timber on a sustainable basis, and can be used for every quality of paper. Hemp paper manufacturing can reduce wastewater contamination. Hemp's low lignin content reduces the need for acids used in pulping, and it's creamy color lends itself to environmentally friendly bleaching instead of harsh chlorine compounds. Less bleaching results in less dioxin and fewer chemical byproducts.
Small addition to this: The cannabis plant can be croped out more than once per year (to the best of my knowledge wheras it takes 80 years for trees to mature. Save the rainforests much? :eek:
also
[SIZE=+1]Hemp fiber paper resists decomposition, and does not yellow with age when an acid-free process is used. Hemp paper more than 1,500 years old has been found. It can also be recycled more times. [/SIZE][/SPOILER]

possible Replace oil in plastic???
Eco-friendly hemp can replace most toxic petrochemical products. Research is being done to use hemp in manufacturing biodegradable plastic products: plant-based cellophane, recycled plastic mixed with hemp for injection-molded products, and resins made from the oil, to name just a very few examples.

This is not even touching on the possible medical products that could be made from this. Read somewhere a while ago that cannabis and cannabis relater products could replace up to half of the ccurrent drugs on the market. That is sepucalation but hilightes the potential...

I wont say this is fact but there are people who think that cannabis could be anti-cancerous. Linky

Think of the jobs and money that could be generated...

Then there is also smoking cannabis which we have debated the hell out of at this stage.


So basicly this plant is god given and it is retarded that we are not uatilising it.

Mickeroo

Is hemp illegal?

Boombastic

Oranage2 wrote: »

1) Ok, I remember when those head shops were open, you'd have kids 12-14ish outside asking can you buy them some fake cannabis cigarettes. So what would happen is that you'll have these same kids asking you to buy the some 'dope'. Of course some will, but when 'dope' isnt strong enough for them then they'll move onto harder drugs. It's a fact that heroin users start with marijuana.

Would the shops selling cannabis be also selling heroin?


Is there not the current danger of same children going to illegal dealer, who may or may not have heroin?


@MK Hemp not illegal - lots of wallets, jackets etc available to buy

crazy cabbage

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is hemp illegal?

Yeap to the best of my knowledge anyway. I honestly dont know why when you can get strains that have no THC

crazy cabbage

Boombastic wrote: »

@MK Hemp not illegal - lots of wallets, jackets etc available to buy

All imported i believe. Cant be grown here... could be wront but am 99% sure it is illegal to grow here.

Think all above points would out weight any (if there even is) negitives with regards people smoking it

Boombastic

crazy cabbage wrote: »

All imported i believe. Cant be grown here... could be wront but am 99% sure it is illegal to grow here.

Think all above points would out weight any (if there even is) negitives with regards people smoking it

Yes all imported. the roots of the plant are illegal here - hence you can't grow it, afaik the stem is not illegal to have, but the buds & roots are

*Off to google why I think that


I know it's legal to have the seeds, once you don't germinate them -


@CC they have recently developed strains with no THC content - AFAIK still illegal

crazy cabbage

Boombastic wrote: »

Yes all imported. the roots of the plant are illegal here - hence you can't grow it, afaik the stem is not illegal to have, but the buds & roots are



*Off to google why I think that

errrmmm the buds is what people smoke (i think)

Roots. i dout it but even if they are we are not ulitising this near the extent that we should be (if we are at all)


Hahaha yea. I have to laugh at the fact that there is strains of cannabis that have no THC (you cant get high off) are still illegal to grow??????????