Legalize Cannabis Ireland

Kurz

Wompa1 wrote: »

I don't care. Tax the crap out of it. Allow drug testing in the work place. First offense can be a firing offense.

But f**k it, why is that the tax payers problem?

People paying lots of tax on something would surely have a problem with being sacked for using it in their spare time.

Kurz

Wompa1 wrote: »

Hmmm. then I guess maybe people on the dole shouldn't be allowed to smoke it at all. Them's the breaks. Luckily it's not addictive and also not a necessity. Shouldn't be a problem to go without until people get back on their feet

Thems isn't the breaks actually. It's just an idea you wrote on an internet forum and doesn't exist in reality.

peternel

the Ignorant people, should watch, The True History of Marajuana, wow this is mind blowing, and there`s a lot more documentary`s like this, National Geographic have a good one, this will STOP your ignorance and you will discover that its the greedy yanks and there Illuminati, that have this horrible proabition, with the most wonderfull herb that God gave us. well done to Uruguay there going to legalize this herb and sell it them selves, they are doing it stop the war on drugs in Uruguay, Marajuana has never killed any one not in the 10 thousand years that we know off, but there has been thousands killed every year by the police and the drug dealers, the cops in Honduron last month accedently shot and killed four people, with the DEA at there side,
COME ON WORLD STOP THIS IGNORANCE AND WAKE UP

srsly78

If you can't even spell the name of the drug you aren't really helping with the whole "weed makes you dumb" thing :pac:

peternel

POTUGAL, they decriminalized every drug and the herb, in 2001, know that they dont have a problem with people who take Marajuana, so know they take care of the few people that have a real drug problem and it works perfect for them. well done Portugal

peternel

srsly78 wrote: »

If you can't even spell the name of the drug you aren't really helping with the whole "weed makes you dumb" thing :pac:

as I said some people are just ignorant

Ash.J.Williams

srsly78 wrote: »

If you can't even spell the name of the drug you aren't really helping with the whole "weed makes you dumb" thing :pac:

I don't think anybody can spell that word

CruelCoin

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't have an issue with legalising cannabis, as long as I have the right as an employer to choose not to employ (or to fire) habitual users. I would also want to see MATs extended to include testing for blood cannabis levels.

If people want to be stoners, whatever; as long as they're kept out of my workplace and off the roads.

QFT.

CruelCoin

peternel wrote: »

the Ignorant people, should watch, The True History of Marajuana, wow this is mind blowing, and there`s a lot more documentary`s like this, National Geographic have a good one, this will STOP your ignorance and you will discover that its the greedy yanks and there Illuminati, that have this horrible proabition, with the most wonderfull herb that God gave us. well done to Uruguay there going to legalize this herb and sell it them selves, they are doing it stop the war on drugs in Uruguay, Marajuana has never killed any one not in the 10 thousand years that we know off, but there has been thousands killed every year by the police and the drug dealers, the cops in Honduron last month accedently shot and killed four people, with the DEA at there side,
COME ON WORLD STOP THIS IGNORANCE AND WAKE UP

HOLY WALL OF TEXT BATMAN!

crazy cabbage

peternel wrote: »

the Ignorant people, should watch, The True History of Marajuana, wow this is mind blowing, and there`s a lot more documentary`s like this, National Geographic have a good one, this will STOP your ignorance and you will discover that its the greedy yanks and there Illuminati, that have this horrible proabition, with the most wonderfull herb that God gave us. well done to Uruguay there going to legalize this herb and sell it them selves, they are doing it stop the war on drugs in Uruguay, Marajuana has never killed any one not in the 10 thousand years that we know off, but there has been thousands killed every year by the police and the drug dealers, the cops in Honduron last month accedently shot and killed four people, with the DEA at there side,
COME ON WORLD STOP THIS IGNORANCE AND WAKE UP

There is loads of good documentrys out there.

The Union
BC's illegal marijuana trade industry has evolved into a business giant, dubbed by some involved as 'The Union', Commanding upwards of $7 billion Canadian annually. With up to 85% of 'BC Bud' being exported to the United States, the trade has become an international issue. Follow filmmaker Adam Scorgie as he demystifies the underground market and brings to light how an industry can function while remaining illegal. Through growers, police officers, criminologists, economists, doctors, politicians and pop culture icons, Scorgie examines the cause and effect nature of the business - an industry that may be profiting more by being illegal

Super High Me
Stand up comedian and marijuana user Doug Benson documents thirty days of pot free living and thirty days of non-stop use to compare the effects of both.

In Pot we Trust
Documentary examining the cases of five chronically ill people who have been prescribed medical marijuana as part of their treatment.

American Drug War-The Last White Hope (havent watched this but heard it was good
The War on Drugs has become the longest and most costly war in American history, the question has become, how much more can the country endure? Inspired by the death of four family members from "legal drugs" Texas filmmaker Kevin Booth sets out to discover why the Drug War has become such a big failure. Three and a half years in the making the film follows gang members, former DEA agents, CIA officers, narcotics officers, judges, politicians, prisoners and celebrities. Most notably the film befriends Freeway Ricky Ross; the man many accuse for starting the Crack epidemic, who after being arrested discovered that his cocaine source had been working for the CIA. AMERICAN DRUG WAR shows how money, power and greed have corrupted not just dope fiends but an entire government. More importantly, it shows what can be done about it. This is not some 'pro-drug' stoner film, but a collection of expert testimonials from the ground troops on the front lines of the drug war, the ones who are fighting it and the ones who are living it.

stoned in suburbia
Stoned In Suburbia is a social history film, examining the change in people's opinions to cannabis over the past 50 years. Discussing the impact of the 60's sexual revolution, the Hippie movement, the emergence of the Punks right up until the modern day.

These are just a few that i can think of. I know the first comment will be 'oooo but you are pro-weed so you will just post links to documentrys that promote that messege' but that isn't the case. These are good informative videos (and often funny). Take from it what you will.

OnTheCounter

ArseLtd wrote: »

Oh jesus. Even if it lowers IQ, and what ever else you say is true, prohibition doesn't work. Criminalising these people doesn't stop them. When it's made legal the same people will smoke as do today only without being criminalised.

You should be ashamed of yourself. At least politicians have an excuse, they don't want people seeing them suddenly say "Oh we were wrong" But you're damaging the freedom we're supposed to have in this "free world". Oh you guarantee do you? I'm sure your findings are based on some great valid sources. Please show us some examples of a country that has decriminalised/legalised cannabis and saw this "guaranteed" drop in productivity and negative economy, oh wise one. And sure show some sources for the other wild assumptions while your at it. Your sure that when legalised, your going to smoke more and turn into a vegetable? You need some cop on not the government telling you what to do. It's not physically addictive, unlike caffeine, alcohol, tobacco ... I get a headache if i don't get a cup of tea for example. But it being illegal hasn't stopped anyone. So why waste time and money bothering these people if prohibition doesn't work? Aren't we all entitled to do what we want? Should fast food be illegal too? You don't have to be a cannabis smoker to be pro legalisation. If your paying tax it's being wasted on this unwinnable war on drugs.

if you dont believd that drug tourism leads to the growth of the prostitution and cocaine consumption you must lead a very sheltered life.

Criminals run those industries and there is more money in that than selling weed and where there is money there is violence.

While you are sitting in your sitting room smoking your legal weed Dublins crime problem would get worse.

Educate yourself beyond reading about weeds effects on the smoker and talking about foreign stats that are skewed as they only relate to weeds direct implications. Check the hospital admittance records and petty crime stats before and after legalisation.

Ash.J.Williams

OnTheCounter wrote: »

if you dont believd that drug tourism leads to the growth of the prostitution and cocaine consumption you must lead a very sheltered life.

Criminals run those industries and there is more money in that than selling weed and where there is money there is violence.

While you are sitting in your sitting room smoking your legal weed Dublins crime problem would get worse.

Educate yourself beyond reading about weeds effects on the smoker and talking about foreign stats that are skewed as they only relate to weeds direct implications. Check the hospital admittance records and petty crime stats before and after legalisation.

incorrect, if it was legal criminals would be out of business...even stupid head shops put the crims out of business to the point they started fire bombing premises.

OnTheCounter

*Admittance records for cocaine and heroin overdose.

yes it is a gateway drug. It lowers the taboo at a party of doing a line of coke.

TheDoc

MaxSteele wrote: »

Any argument by the anti side have been fairly piss weak, hypothetical strawman arguments. I think Mikom and Gaffer91 have debunked most of the moral outrage so far.

I think the Anti side is pretty strong.

The most potent point I see, and am interested in how it would operate in the work place.

I worked in a call centre where the intake of Cannabis was extremely high by staff outside of work hours, but on some occasions during work hours. While obviously I couldn't link it directly, it was evident from stats on performance from within my team, the guys I knew on Cannabis performed significantly worse then those who didn't. There is nothing really to draw from that directly.

Since moving to a more formal workplace, dealing with high profile clients with complex products and business scenarios, there is really no room for laxadasical thinking, behaviour or decision making. Our most recent team member was a very avid cannabis smoker and like many here, championed the cause of legalisation. His decision making and job performance was extremely poor and was soon terminated from his position.

There are numerous studies out there, and I couldn't be ****ed linking them, a google search will suffice for anyone interested. But as the poster on the first page outlined, there is some serious questions that need to be answered in relation to employment and the workplace. I think its nievity and shouting lalalala denying there the drug has an impact on a persons mental capacity to operate. I've had enough experience in working life to draft the opinion that Cannabis users performance, capacity for workload and decision making is poorer then someone who does not use the drug.

And then finally there is just the snobby element I'd like to upload. Simply put I would not want to have or see that ****e being smoked in public or commercial properties in street view. I wouldn't mind if its within someones private property, but I'd prefer not to turn into Amsertdam which to anyone who doesn't like a bit of smoke, is a ****ing dump...

And its a mute point outlining that " o no one is saying kids should take it or teens, for adults only" will you come outside of your little bubble and cop on. So not only would we have teens lashing cans in on a Friday night and locked, but now they will be smoking joints aswell? Our A&E are at breaking point already, we don't need more pressure thanks. It is a mute point arguing the case of adults only, if it becomes legal for adults, bet your bollox teens will get their hands on it ( as they already do in fairness, illegally albeit). So now instead of being asked to buy Cans or Smokes, I'm going to be asked to pick up a bit of weed aswell.

Sorry there is more important things in this country to worry about then to legalise an illegal drug, this one needs to be put on the back burner for a few decades. And considering this government, nor any current political party can make the tough decisions that will bring us someway back on track, how the **** do you see them legalising Cannabis?

OnTheCounter

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

incorrect, if it was legal criminals would be out of business...even stupid head shops put the crims out of business to the point they started fire bombing premises.

incorrect. Criminals in the drug trade make the vast majority of their money from coke and we would give them more tourists to sell coke to by legalising weed.

Do you not realise the vast majority of coke in Ireland is routed through holland. Its not a coincidence!

Boombastic

Drink is legal, how many people use it in the workplace?

CruelCoin

Boombastic wrote: »

Drink is legal, how many people use it in the workplace?

Its not that they use it in the workplace.

Its that they use it the night/morning beforehand and show up to work unfit for purpose.

More than once I've nearly been killed by heavy machinery operated by a hung-over employee.

The same would happen if they came into work after a night on "purple haze"

CuriousG

sdiff wrote: »

If it were legal the dealers would go out of business.

......And go on to selling harder drugs to make their money, which makes drugs like cocaine and heroin more easily available. Don't fool yourself into thinking that people wouldn't but weed for minors if it was legal. Also, don't fool yourself that just because it was legal everyone would smoke it - I still wouldn't and a lot of others wouldn't either.

I'm all for using it for fuel etc, but making it legal just for people to sit around getting high is just silly.

The majority of profits from legalising weed in Amsterdam supports criminals and gangs ( as do the brothels), tell me how legalising it is going to stop crime??? What is stopping someone with criminal links opening a shop/cafe whatever to sell weed, and pass the profits along to a gang?

That is not even to mention the fact, by the way, that if it was legal it would be taxed to the high heavens, and then STILL people would be giving out. You are all giving out about how corrupt the government are etc, yet if it legal, they would get most of the profit from it anyway.


I wouldn't mind if all of you were actually concerned with making a cheaper fuel resource, making cannabis into medicine (without mind altering chemicals), making clothes from cannabis etc.....But you just want to smoke/vaporise/etc, the majority of you. If it is JUST a plant, how would you feel about legalising it to the extent of it being used for fuel etc??


Just because something is 'a plant' doesn't make it safe for people.

Aganica

OnTheCounter wrote: »

*Admittance records for cocaine and heroin overdose.

yes it is a gateway drug. It lowers the taboo at a party of doing a line of coke.

The only drug cannabis has been scientifically proven to be a gateway drug to is LSD. Given that the lifetime prevalence use of LSD in Ireland is less then 1% I dont see that the gateway drug argument holds any water to be honest.

With the exception that under current prohibition some the same people who are importing large amounts of cannabis are importing selling cocaine and heroin

OnTheCounter wrote: »

Do you not realise the vast majority of coke in Ireland is routed through holland. Its not a coincidence!

This is actually not true at all. In fact much more cocaine is probably routed through ireland on its way to Holland the the other way around.

The fact that Holland imports/ exports so much drugs has little to do with their stance on cannabis and more to do with the fact that Rotterdam is the biggest sea port in Europe

srsly78

OnTheCounter wrote: »

Educate yourself beyond reading about weeds effects on the smoker and talking about foreign stats that are skewed as they only relate to weeds direct implications. Check the hospital admittance records and petty crime stats before and after legalisation.

Go check the figures for Portugal yourself, they decriminalised everything, including hard drugs. Petty crime and hospital stats are down.

srsly78

Aganica wrote: »

This is actually not true at all. In fact much more cocaine is probably routed through ireland on its way to Holland the the other way around.

The fact that Holland imports/ exports so much drugs has little to do with their stance on cannabis and more to do with the fact that Rotterdam is the biggest sea port in Europe

And hilariously a lot of weed is imported into NL from Germany, because the penalties for growing it in NL are a lot stricter!

godwin

CuriousG wrote: »

......And go on to selling harder drugs to make their money, which makes drugs like cocaine and heroin more easily available. Don't fool yourself into thinking that people wouldn't but weed for minors if it was legal. Also, don't fool yourself that just because it was legal everyone would smoke it - I still wouldn't and a lot of others wouldn't either.

I'm all for using it for fuel etc, but making it legal just for people to sit around getting high is just silly.

The majority of profits from legalising weed in Amsterdam supports criminals and gangs ( as do the brothels), tell me how legalising it is going to stop crime??? What is stopping someone with criminal links opening a shop/cafe whatever to sell weed, and pass the profits along to a gang?

That is not even to mention the fact, by the way, that if it was legal it would be taxed to the high heavens, and then STILL people would be giving out. You are all giving out about how corrupt the government are etc, yet if it legal, they would get most of the profit from it anyway.


I wouldn't mind if all of you were actually concerned with making a cheaper fuel resource, making cannabis into medicine (without mind altering chemicals), making clothes from cannabis etc.....But you just want to smoke/vaporise/etc, the majority of you. If it is JUST a plant, how would you feel about legalising it to the extent of it being used for fuel etc??


Just because something is 'a plant' doesn't make it safe for people.

I'm indifferent when it comes to making it legal or not , it's not like it's legal status has ever stopped me from getting high quality gear within 10mins , and I live in a small town . The fact it's illegal has became some sort of façade to appease people.

srsly78

godwin wrote: »

Why bother legalising , it's not its legality has ever stopped me from getting high quality gear within 10mins , and I live in a small town .

Because of the huge amount of money wasted on enforcing a pointless law.

daRobot

OnTheCounter wrote: »

yes it is a gateway drug

Milk is actually the biggest gateway drug of all.

99.9% of Heroin users, have used milk at some point in their lives.

Boombastic

CruelCoin wrote: »

Its not that they use it in the workplace.

Its that they use it the night/morning beforehand and show up to work unfit for purpose.

More than once I've nearly been killed by heavy machinery operated by a hung-over employee.

The same would happen if they came into work after a night on "purple haze"

People who would turn up to work intoxicated will do it whether it is legal or not. Most people will not. If people do, then then same consequences should apply for turning up drunk/hungover.

Aganica

CuriousG wrote: »

.

The majority of profits from legalising weed in Amsterdam supports criminals and gangs ( as do the brothels),

Cannabis isnt legal in Amsterdam. The sale of small amounts is mildly tolerated. Thats all! The production is illegal, the wholesale is illegal and is in part run by criminals and gangs. Most of the cannabis on sale in dutch coffeeshops is actually produced outside Holland.

To this extent using the netherlands as model for a successful drugs policy is pointless. (Bar a few notable exceptions...such as reduced cannabis consumption)

Andy-Pandy

In recent times i've gotten the impression that most of the weed in Ireland is home grown, at least the decent stuff is. This knocks out the "gangs" and has turned it into a cottage industry. It's not the most difficult thing in the world to produce.

Im just wondering what the stance is for the people who are against the legalisation of cannabis to people who grow there own supply and who have no intention of selling it on. Who is being harmed by this, and who is profiteering?

srsly78

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

In recent times i've gotten the impression that most of the weed in Ireland is home grown, at least the decent stuff is. This knocks out the "gangs" and has turned it into a cottage industry. It's not the most difficult thing in the world to produce.

Im just wondering what the stance is for the people who are against the legalisation of cannabis to people who grow there own supply and who have no intention of selling it on. Who is being harmed by this, and who is profiteering?

It would be nice if this were true, however in reality asian gangs are here running grow houses. Just like in the UK.

We should adopt some laws like several european counties have (Belgium and NL for example). Households should be allowed to cultivate X plants per adult. I think it's 2 per adult in Belgium. Note that cannabis is not decriminalised there, but if you grow it at home and smoke it at home they seem to turn a blind eye.

TheDoc

srsly78 wrote: »

Go check the figures for Portugal yourself, they decriminalised everything, including hard drugs. Petty crime and hospital stats are down.

Based on what year?

Its estimated only 30% of the Portuguese population have healthcare cover...
The average spending per person is about 40% cheaper, allowing better frontline services before people get to a hospital.

There is nothing that links the decriminalisation of drugs to a drop in Hospital stats.

When you compare it to Netherlands however, their average spending per person is DOUBLE what we have. Again nothing directly linking, but sure if we are just idly speculating **** might aswell through that out there.

srsly78

TheDoc wrote: »

Based on what year?

Over the 10 years since they decriminalised. Lots of articles about it. Here is one for you: http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7