Button vs Hammer forged vs Cut rifling.

CJhaughey

Interesting video on rifling techniques.
Anschutz and Walther still use Button rifling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrmWN0igJY0

harmoniums

CJhaughey wrote: »

Interesting video on rifling techniques.
Anschutz and Walther still use Button rifling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrmWN0igJY0

fixed it for you

tomcat220t

Have a Lothar Walther match grade barrel and find it very easy to clean and shoots good aswell .Ansuchutz uses the button rifle prosess and the extra stress in their barrels to make some of the most accurate rimfires on the market , but for the likes of F-Class most shooters seem to favour cut barrels due to the less stress involved in the cut rifle prosess .I have a Krieger cut barrel and it seems just as easy clean as my Lothar Walther and shoots very good aswell.Ive seen match grade button barrels that when they get hot on shot strings their groups open up more more!Probably due to the extra stress in the button barrels over the cut prosess.

ejg

I have a Lothar Walther match barrel on my 308 that shoots to the same spot hot or cold. The material stress in a button rifled barrel is very small, only a few tenths of a millimeter stressed material. Unlike hammer forged.
Other factors are maybe more important when comparing button and cut rifling. One cannot say one is more accurate than the other and target shooters are using both.
One thing is for sure, cut or button hand lapped match barrels are worlds ahead of factory hammer forged barrels, no matter which make.
edi

tomcat220t

ejg wrote: »

I have a Lothar Walther match barrel on my 308 that shoots to the same spot hot or cold. The material stress in a button rifled barrel is very small, only a few tenths of a millimeter stressed material. Unlike hammer forged.
Other factors are maybe more important when comparing button and cut rifling. One cannot say one is more accurate than the other and target shooters are using both.
One thing is for sure, cut or button hand lapped match barrels are worlds ahead of factory hammer forged barrels, no matter which make.
edi

My Lothar Walther keeps the same POA hot or cold but its does not create the same heat or demand the same accuracy as the hot 7mms or 6.5s used in F-Class . No sure your comment on tenths of a millimeter of stress in a button barrel is correct.I know its done, but i would NEVER except a button match barrel that had any profiling been carried out after been rifled .Profiling the outside of a button rifle can effect the inside dimemtions of the rifle bore ,so to suggest the material stress in the button rifle process is only tenths of a milimeter is probably in accurate?

ejg

The ammount of stress in a buttoned barrel depends a bit on the buttoning process used. The stress in a finished barrel depends a lot on the stress relieving process.
Stress also needs to be relieved from the raw blank as that is rolled to shape, be it for button or cut barrels. I presume that is where much more stress is introduced than that bit of a button. Are not all barrels profiled after rifling? Except hammer forged barrels.
edi

tomcat220t

ejg wrote: »

The ammount of stress in a buttoned barrel depends a bit on the buttoning process used. The stress in a finished barrel depends a lot on the stress relieving process.
Stress also needs to be relieved from the raw blank as that is rolled to shape, be it for button or cut barrels. I presume that is where much more stress is introduced than that bit of a button. Are not all barrels profiled after rifling? Except hammer forged barrels.
edi

Button process induces massive amount of stress through the WHOLE barrel and the key word used is stress RELIEVING, not stress ELEMINATION .This is how Anschutz uses the stress in their button process to create such good rimfire barrels .If you subscribe to the fact that concistency is the key to accuracy then all things been equal the cut rifle technique is a superior process. Ive seen advretising services of fluting and reprofiling of button and factory hammerforged barrels ,it simply shows a lack of basic knowledge at best or worse ...couldent care less for the customers rifles .

zeissman

tomcat220t wrote: »

Button process induces massive amount of stress through the WHOLE barrel and the key word used is stress RELIEVING, not stress ELEMINATION .This is how Anschutz uses the stress in their button process to create such good rimfire barrels .If you subscribe to the fact that concistency is the key to accuracy then all things been equal the cut rifle technique is a superior process. Ive seen advretising services of fluting and reprofiling of button and factory hammerforged barrels ,it simply shows a lack of basic knowledge at best or worse ...couldent care less for the customers rifles .

If I ordered a custom fluted barrel cut or buttoned from any of the major barrel makers would the fluting be done before or after the rifling ?

ejg

tomcat220t wrote: »

Button process induces massive amount of stress through the WHOLE barrel and the key word used is stress RELIEVING, not stress ELEMINATION .This is how Anschutz uses the stress in their button process to create such good rimfire barrels .If you subscribe to the fact that concistency is the key to accuracy then all things been equal the cut rifle technique is a superior process. Ive seen advretising services of fluting and reprofiling of button and factory hammerforged barrels ,it simply shows a lack of basic knowledge at best or worse ...couldent care less for the customers rifles .

How can the buttoning process induce MASSIVE stress if only about 0.1mm of material is moved on the surface or the bore? Stress yes but not massive. Then it is moslty relieved ...then the remaining stress is radial and equally distributed.
One must see 0.1mm in ratio to the wall section of the barrel.
I think way more important is the manufacturing process of the barrel blank round bar. That is where most stress is induced. If that is not done right then it will show with profiling and/or fluting.

edi

tomcat220t

zeissman wrote: »

If I ordered a custom fluted barrel cut or buttoned from any of the major barrel makers would the fluting be done before or after the rifling ?

Id say before final lapping .....to ensure its leaves their factory inside their guaranteed tolerances .Some of the worlds top button barrel makers do not and will not flute their own barrels and warranty would be void if fluting is carried out after it leaving their factory.(Shilen Barrels).Another top usa button barrel maker will void warranty if ANY CONTOURING OR FLUTING is carried out on their barrels after it leaving their factory.(broughton barrels).Hart barrels also covers this topic in their Q&A section .

tomcat220t

ejg wrote: »

How can the buttoning process induce MASSIVE stress if only about 0.1mm of material is moved on the surface or the bore? Stress yes but not massive. Then it is moslty relieved ...then the remaining stress is radial and equally distributed.
One must see 0.1mm in ratio to the wall section of the barrel.
I think way more important is the manufacturing process of the barrel blank round bar. That is where most stress is induced. If that is not done right then it will show with profiling and/or fluting.

edi

The stress DOES show on profiling and or fluting.......Anschutz uses this stress to very good effect in their process of barrel making .

Hondata92

Some good reading here

http://www.riflebarrels.ca/html/barrel_facts.html